Thinking a bit about putting together a light weight varmint shooter. Are these two cartridges going to pretty much run side by side? By all the loading manuals I've looked at the '06 does seem to have just a slight edge, but how do they float in real life?

I'd kind of look at it this way, if you have a short action to work with I'd go with the Rbts Ai, if long action then I'd for darn sure go with the 25/06.

Lastly I think...with similar barrel lengths and at similar pressure then there's a solid 150 fps diff and maybe closer to 200 fast or slow barrels depending.

Dober

Loaded to equal pressures, with all other variable being equal, the 25-06's greater case capacity will produce more speed.

That said, the 257 or 257AI will produce enough speed to shoot the 75 grain VMax flat and far.

Jeff

Beings your looking for a LW varmint gun, 257 in a SA.

The 257 will also burn less powder to get you close enough that the critters can't tell the diff.

With light bullets the speeds are prolly really close, though I really like 100's in a 25 (assuming you have coyotes in mind).

I used to run my 25-06 at 3,300 and change with 100's. My std. 257 with 2 inches less tube safely nudges 3,090-3,100 with 100's.

Owning both and building another custom 257AI, I can tell you that building a 257AI on a short action defeats the purpose of this round!
It is too restrictive on COL to get the most out of the cartridge.
I build mine on long actions, mostly Mauser '98's, and throat them with .300" and use a COL of 3.000", this will get you within 100fps of the 25-06 with lighter bullets, but will still see a reduction of 150fps or more with the heavies.

I am a huge 25cal fan, if rifle cals stopped right there, I'd be happy!

Now, if you want something different, then by all means build yourself a 257AI, but if you want all out speed, then go with the 25-06, you won't be disappointed! The 25-06 really needs a 26" barrel to shine, but either work well with a 24" barrel, the standard 1:10" twist is all that's required for either cartridge.

If you are using a long action, there is no earthly reason not to just go 257WBY. Neither the Bob AI nor 25/06 can sniff the speeds the ROY is capable of. If using a short action, 257AI or 25/284 would be good choices. With normal bullets, 257 Roberts AI or otherwise works just fine in short action form.

BUT, getting back to the question at hand.... 25 cal in general is a poor choice for a pure varmint rifle. 224-243 rounds are far better choices. 25's carry more recoil than you need unless your 'varmints' weigh in at over 200lbs.

I have a 257 AI and LOVE it. As others have said, it won't run neck-and-neck w/ 25'06 but close enough that it doesn't matter to the dead critters down range.

Like safariman said, I'd go 224 or 6mm for a dedicated varmint rig. If you like the idea of extended range w/ heavier bullets try a fast-twist 6mm and the 105 gr A-Max. They're competing at 1000 yards w/ those.

My 257 AI gives me 3300 fps w/ standard (cup and core) 100 grain bullets from a 24" barrel. Cases never need trimming, and powder consumption is a hair lower than the '06.

If you want a solid dual-purpose varmint/big game rig go 25 cal. If you want a dedicated "walking varmint rig" go 224/6mm.

efw: what is your .257 AI on? Long action?..

That dam Steelhead convinced me to AI a .223 and it turned out really cool

So now I put the radar on when I hear "AI" !


Ingwe

ingwe,

It's on a Czech Mauser action. It was my first complete custom rifle. Far from perfect, but I love it.

I am purchasing a 6mm-250 Savage on a 1903-A3 action from someone here on the 'fire. Has a 26" Sako take-off barrel. Thinking there is a lot of potential there... though I'm going to try out the cartridge it is chambered for before messing with it.

Thinking a 243 Win AI would be nice.

AI-ing is a lot of fun. SH has had that same influence upon me... working my way down to 224 cal slowly but surely... and that Mexican SR '98 7x57 has been vacuuming up my funds for a while now. Nearing the end of that project... just decided to get a new stock "while I'm at it" so what started as a quick check of chamber specs, new crown, and 3-position safety has turned into an all-out customization!

Will post pics as soon as she is checkered!

Why not just get a .25-06 AI?

efw: Ive got a freind raving about his .243AI...

And Im thinkin about a build....more later...


You guys are a BAD influence!!


Ingwe

'Cause it still requires a long action and it STILL ain't a 25 ROY

A 224 guy like yourself needs to Ack the 22-250.

A cart like that with its taper would really benefit both stretch-wise and cap wise...

Just talkin'

The 243 AI, ahem, you might as well buy a WSSM for ballistics and twist in a factory gun....I've used it, but 6mms don't warm my heart.

It IS hell on PD's though!

The 22-250AI IS a real upgrade, in several ways, from a 22-250 and is a VERY useful all around cartridge.

Hawkeye and safariman...

Cant say as how I never thought of the .22-250 AI.....

My "build" is still the germ of an idea....I'm waiting for it to fester into a full blown infection...


And yeah, you know me too well, I lean towards the .22 caliber something....


Ingwe

[/quote]

The 22-250AI IS a real upgrade, in several ways, from a 22-250 and is a VERY useful all around cartridge. [/quote]

I like mine a bunch. 75's fly nice and 62 TSX hit real hard.

My .257 Roberts is my favorite rifle by a wide margin. It�s a long action Ruger with a 22� barrel. I use Winchester +P brass and shoot +P loads, giving up very little to a .25-06.

The advantages of this configuration are several:

1. The action is long enough to get the most out of the cartridge (I seat the bullets out to a COL that will not fit in a Remington M700 short action).

2. The 22� barrel length is much handier than the 24�-26� barrels common on a .25-06.

3. The 22� barrel is well suited to the Roberts� case capacity � long enough to get complete burns.

4. As a dual purpose cartridge the Roberts is outstanding, with less recoil than the .25-06. (Not that either approaches high levels.) I run 75g V-AMX at 3600fps and 120g A-Frames at 2947fps. Prairie dogs to deer easily. Although I don�t normally carry it while elk hunting, I often carry it while deer hunting and a second, unfilled elk tag in my pocket. I wouldn�t hesitate on elk inside 350 yards.


On the down side, the Roberts is at its best when handloaded. Factory ammo, while good, is not plentiful.

Either one will make an excellent addition to any battery.

Since Muleshoe said that he is looking to build a light weight varmint rifle, so I'm assuming that he is planning to shoot bullets of 100 grains or less. If I am correct, why would there be any advantage to build on a LA vs. a SA? I can't see how any bullet weighing 100 grains or less could be loaded too long to work through a SA.

My 257s are built on a Marlin SA, a Mauser MA, Remington SAs, Ruger LAs, a Savage SA, a Savage LA, and a Savage 99.

Jeff

Right on, Jeff... If a lightweight short action 25 is desired, the 257Bob in standard or AI trim is the way to go. Sounds like they work just fine in your SA's as well........

I think that the Remington 700 Mountain Rifle is the nicest commercial 257 Roberts package that any big volume manufacturer has yet to produce. The Kimbers are nice too.

Jeff

But you get such a cooool cartridge w/o a belt, using 20 less grains of powder, with brass that doesn't cost $1.80 a piece. Weighing those differences against the difference in velocities, I'd still go with the .25-06 AI.

(When are we going sage rat shooting????)

I've had three .257 Roberts A.I.'s two Remingtons and one Ruger 77. All short actions. Currently using a Remington 700 custom rebuild. The A.I. will do everything the .25-06 will do with more efficiency. However, if you want a light weight varmint rifle, the .257 Roberts A.I. is a bit much. I would recommend something in the 6mm or .224 caliber. With the new bullets they cam do so much more than a few years ago.

Mine is on a Mexican Mauser action with a Krieger barrel and a Rimrock stock. It makes a handy mountain rifle. My loads with 115 grain Partitions are roughly equivalent to what I have seen in several .25-06s for which I have reloaded. You would have to go to a .257 Wby to get a significant increase in velocity, or you might be able to accomplish the same thing in a short-action with a .25 WSM.

But doesn't everybody know that the 25 WSSM is a POS?

Jeff

everbody 'cep you and me

The 25 WSSM is about the same capacity as the 257 AI and runs at higher pressures... whats NOT to love??

well, she's short, fat, & dumpy. But she performs pretty well.

COL for my 100g TTSX loads is as long as my 110g AccuBond and longer than my 115g TTSX, 120g Grand Slam and 120g A-Frame loads. That's reason enough for me.

The real benefit of the .257 Roberts is, IMHO, found with a case capacity well matched to a shorter 20" or 22" barrel. For the .25-06 I would prefer a 24" or 26". (Not sure you can even get shorter than 24" in a factory .25-06, but I haven't surveyed the market, either.)

In the Ruger lineup, the 22" .257 Roberts comes in at 7.0 pounds while the 24" .25-06 is listed at 8.25 pounds. Another good reason to select the Roberts.

Probably another reason my Ruger Roberts is my favorite rifle...

[Edited again to add - Savage lists a .25-06 with a 22" barrel. I would still prefer 24" for that cartrdige.)

I built my .257 AI from a .25-06. The long action gives ample magazine room for 117 and 120 gr bullets. It's been my favorite sheep, deer, and antelope rifle for over 30 years. I also used it to drop one of my largest bull elk in his tracks while I was hunting sheep in the wilderness north of Yellowstone Park.

The .25-06 has a slight velocity edge, but I've never felt my .257 AI was lacking.

I fell into this problem..

ended up with a 25.06 heavy varmint barrel to put on a Savage..
I was looking at rechambering down to a 257 Roberts...

however what my friend the gun smith pointed out, was that I could save the expense by just loading the 25/06 case to 257 Roberts AI standards...

pressure would be lower and also barrel life would be extended..

so as much as I love the Roberts and how little I like the 25/06..I am living with a 25/06 and life is just fine..