I've been tossing this around for awhile now and still can't decide. I'll get both in time but for now help me decide. Tell me what caliber and what rifle you would go with and I guess why.

6.5x55. goes from 85 grains of bullet weight to 160. also haven't heard of one being inaccurate either. light recoil, and doesn't need alot of barrel length to get it's job done. also, works well with a lot of different powders.

i do like the roberts but don't have any experience with one. i just think the swede is more versatile.

6.5x55 if you reload.

Rifle: quality bolt action. You can still find M70's and Rem700's if you like.

Twist: look for 1-8, don't go over 1-9 under any circumstances.

Reason: myriad of quality boolits, accurate, etc. I've had four and still have a couple. Gave Dad a M70 FWT some years back when they first started making them. He has literally shot a truckload of whitetails with the 129g. Hornady FBs.

what do you want to use it for?

For little stuff like groundhogs the Roberts would be my choice.

For deer it is a wash.

For larger game or some long range target work the 6.5 would be the way I go.

Rifle? For the Roberts I would be get a Kimber 84M in either Select Grade or Montana, whichever blows your hair back. I'm out of touch on the 6.5X55 but a Ruger Hawkeye or similar would be very nice. That of course would make a very fine Roberts as well!

Uses would be deer and groundhogs. My ranges at deer would be 200 yards and less but groundhogs I've got 1000 plus yards to go and yes I do roll my own. (handload)

I know this isn't much help, I have used and like both. If I am partial to the Roberts, it is because I used to have one and shot it more. It really worked well on deer and small stuff at fairly long range. But the 6.5 performed well also. I guess I would go with the rifle I found first that I liked.

Your killing me smalls your killing me!

For deer and smaller, I'd lean toward the Roberts.

I'm no doubt a 6.5 slut, but I vote Swede all day every day. A heck of a lot more versatile and a plethora of good 6.5 bullets if you are serious about going to 1000 yards. Take a look at what SU35 and Shag have been doing with mild 6.5s at 1000 in the long range section. I hear nothing but good things about Tikka rifles, but wouldn't turn down a Remington Classic, Ruger, Wichester, CZ if you don't mind heavier rifles.

Of course i wouldn't complain to loudly if someone tried to give me a Kimber 84M in the 'bob.

last year looking for a rifle I was trying to find a .260, but could not find one in the rifle I wanted. I bought a roberts instead. I like it just fine, killed a deer with it, using partitions or X bullets I expect its pretty potent.

That's not a bad idea Rick.

Or like you said a Hawkeye.

I too am a 6.5 slappy so that is my vote for caliber. I will probably own a Roberts eventually, but only because I already have a 6.5.

As far as what rifle, I have expensive taste but limited funds. I would love to have a NULA at some point, but for now, I did a trade on the campfire for a Tikka in 6.5x55 and I gotta say, I love it. I still want the NULA, but the Tikka really does everything you need it to do. Good trigger, shoots great, ect... and for the price, I'm not afraid to beat it up.

Guess we already put our money where our mouths are on that one huh?

Rick, how'd yours work out?

I'm gonna try some 117 SGK's tomorrow. 115 BT's still shoot but the Sierra's might shoot a little better.

lovesomeshootin,

I have owned both .257's and 6.5x55's for many years, and hunted a wide variety of both varmints and big game with them. In fact I still own rifles in both chamberings, and love them both.

Both will work great for your purposes, and you would never be able to see a dime's worth of difference between them either on deer or varmints.

In fact with today's bullets I doubt you'd ever see a difference in performance on game bigger than deer. This is based on some experience in observing elk hunters here in Montana. A .257 or 6.5x55 will take elk quite neatly with the right bullet in the right place; if it doesn't the shot placement was lousy, not the choice of cartridge.

Yep CMG hit the nail on the head. Take your pick.

I have a 257 AI that I love, plan to pick up a Kimber 84m in standard Bob, and am currently working on a Swede. Not because I need 'em with my AI, but just because they're awesome rounds.

If I were to go back and do it all over, I'd do the standard Bob in a Kimber 84M Select Grade. That would be my advice to you: pick the rifle, and let the selection of chamberings in the rifle you choose drive the choice in caliber.

The Win M70 featherweight in either caliber would be fantastic, though I'd say that the Ruger Hawkeye in 257 is a bit heavy for my taste. I think Tikka sells their lite in the Swede? And I've mentioned the Kimber. I don't think you can go wrong with the Winchester, Tikka, or Kimber, personally.

IMHO, there is no comparision. I have NEVER heard of a bad shooting 6.5x55 and have heard many times that the 'bob can be fussy or not very accurate. Have you ever heard of ANYONE using a 'bob for any kind of rifle match? I haven't, but the swede was used in and won 1000yd matches until the new 6.5s came along.

From Woodchucks to moose, to deer, to speed goats, to bears under 600lbs and anything in between, the Swede can and has handled the job for over 105yrs. I own a Ruger MKII Model 77, a Remington 700 classic, and a Husky Model 38 in 6.5x55. Someday I will own a Tikka or find a Model 70FWT and add them to my collection.

Mine needs bedded. It is double grouping.

Shooting a 5 shot group, it will put 3 extremely close together, and the other two extremely close but an inch high and a bit to the left. I have every confidence it will be a very accurate rifle after bedding.

Lovesomeshootin-

I have two rifles at the moment in the "bob" and one "Better Bob". Have also owned a M-700 Classic that I rather wish I'd not let go of...

That said, I also own six rifles in 6.5x55... Including the only factory Rem M-40X I have ever seen. And have previously owned at least that many more.

The definitive answer to your question lies in nearly any loading manual printed in the last 25 years. The fact is, the 6.5 outperforms the Bob in about every arena.

I know I risk the wrath of the Bob lovers, but the truth is I like the "Bob" myself... However the Swede just does everything better... Especially with a much better bullet selection.

When it comes to 300M competition, one will not have to look hard to find a Swede... But a .257 on the line would be rare, indeed.

The above notwithstanding; when it comes to varmints and deer... It's doubtful one could tell the difference in the field.

Thus: my best advice is; Go with the one that YOU like best...

Edw

I have never owned a Swede but am certain it's a very fine cartridge. I have used the Roberts a good bit because it was my third CF rifle and I have used it a lot for varmints and deer/antelope.But I never did much with the Roberts taking it past the 400-500 yard marker.

I would expect that the Swede's ballistic trump card is with the heavier bullets.But since I have other cartridges to jump to from the Roberts I have just stuck with the Roberts in that category,and have never found it lacking for my purposes.

Dude..get both.
I have two of each,different packages,different uses,if you are a handloader,even more fun to have...

If you are at one gun only,the 6.5x55 will do what the .257 and a .270 will do,with a mix of .25-06 and .308 thrown in....

Rifle = +1 (and "Roger that") on the 6.5 Swede.Regards, Homesteader.

Our groundhogs in Texas get up to 400 pounds or so. Sharp tusks too. Dee

Since I am apparently one of the few responders who has actually used both the .257 Roberts and 6.5x55 for quite a bit of both big game hunting and long-range varmint shooting, and stated that I never could tell all that much difference, I ran some numbers on the Sierra Ballistics program out to 1000 yards.

The bullets used were the best I've found in each caliber for long-range varminting, the 115-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip .25, and the 140-grain Hornady A-Max 6.5.

Muzzle was assumed to be 3000 with the 115 in the .257, and 2700 with the 140 in the 6.5x55. I've found these to be typical muzzle velocities with safe handloads in both rounds, in 24" barrel.

Both rounds were assumed to be zeroed at 200 yards, with a 5-mph crosswind:

The results for the .257--
Drop at 1000: 305 inches
Wind drift at 1000: 47 inches
Velocity at 1000: 1293 fps

The results for the 6.5x55--
Drop at 1000: 336 inches
Wind drift at 1000: 43 inches
Velocity at 1000: 1332 fps

Gee, no wonder I've never been able to tell all that much difference between the two rounds.

I might also state that despite the 6.5x55 being used for a lot of target shooting, I have never been able to tell any difference in the accuracy of the two rounds. In a factory rifle the accuracy potential will vary with the individual rifle: I have owned factory rifles in both chamberings that are medicre shooters, and factory rifles in both chamberings that shot extremely well.

In a custom rifle both are very accurate. This isn't surprising, since the cases are about as close to each other as they can be without being identical.

As stated in my earlier post, I have never been able to tell any difference in the way either cartridge killed big game, even elk. This is not assumed by looking at energy figures, or other assumptions based on bullet weight, but by actually seeing animals being taken in the field.

I will echo what Mule Deer had to say....I also use the 115 Nosler in a standard .257, but I have always shot the 129 Hornady in the 6.5. If I could only have one of the calibers, I would go with the 6.5. I don't have a ballistic program so it would be interesting if Mule Deer would run the 129 for numbers. Just for the record I am keeping rifles in both chamberings.......if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

John

At 1000 yards, with the same 200-yard sight-in and 5 mph crosswind, the 129 started at 2900 goes like this:

Drop: -336
Drift: 52
Remaining velocity: 1226

These numbers, by the way, are all calculated at the standard elevation, temperature, etc. that ammo factories and loading manuals use for their ballistics charts.

While I have used both rounds a LONG ways out there on varmints, on big game my longest shots have been around 400 yards, both on pronghorn. I have also taken several big deer with both rounds, using a variety of bullets. The results are identical: If the bulet goes in the right place, the animal is dead very quickly.

I have never seen a big bull elk taken with either round, but have seen enough meat elk taken that I have no doubts that either would work--though I tend to prefer just a little more cartridge for such work. I do know a woman who has aken 17 elk with the .257 Roberts, with 17 shots. All were cows or meat bulls, and none were taken past 250 yards, but it worked just fine.

Right now I have two .257's and one 6.5x55, though the .257's are both factory rifles and the 6.5x55 a complete custom job on an FN action, with nice English-walnut stock, Lilja barrel, Gentry 3-position safety and Timney trigger. All shoot very well.

wow, would never have guessed it was THAT close.

Me neither.....Can someone run those numbers with a 270 and 140AB at 30350?

Here you are, Bob--though I ran the numbers at 3050, not 30350 (was that from the .270 Weatherby?)--

Drop: -273
Wind drift: 41
Remaining velocity: 1425

Looks like we have a winner! So dump those Bobs and Swedes and come on over to the O'Connor side....

If a guy was real smart he'd shoot a Bob and a 270!

Thanks, John.Haha! Typo!But you guessed me right.

I suspected it would turn out the way.....the old girl ain't exactly chump change, is she?

yeah but if you upped the swede to 3050 the story changes too. not that you could do that but...unfair comparison.

Sammo,how's it feel to be a genius at such a young tender age?

If I could convince my wife of that it'd feel alot better....(grin)

She don't count....we do!LOL!

+1 on the Bob...all this talk of a .270 made me throw up in my mouth just a little....

Ingwe

I do

I reload for a couple friend's 270. One is a Winchester model 70, the other a Rem 770. The Winchester 70 is just slightly more accurate at 5/8" 100 yds, the 770 7/8" consistantly with the odd one going to 5/8". I was shocked by the 770, not so much the Winchester. My 257 roberts is 3/8-1/2 any day. It is a ruger 77 not hawkeye.

That having been said my husqvarna 6.5 swede has never failed to kill anything I have shot at with it. It is a 1.25 rifle at 100, 1.5 at 20 and 2 at 300. I cannot explain that. It has killed everything from grouse and rabbits to big bear and moose. It would be my choice if I had to make it. I don't own a 270 because the swede fills the niche for me.

Randy

You're on to me...

This had turned into a meeting of the Minds!

I think Ingwe's jealous....(grin)

Now if I just had a .257 Roberts setup like that 7x57 of Ingwe's I'd be all set.

Ingwe does have some pretty nice rifles even if they ain't in 270.
A Bob and 7x57 would be a pretty 'classy' combo. Did I just say classy???

No offense to anyone but I see some biased BS in this 257R vs 6.5x55.



First of all if you look at Nosler Load Guide you see the 257 R maxing out at around 2,850 or less. Now if MD says you can take that bullet to 25-06/3000 mv speed I'll believe him.
But then to say the 6.5x55 shoots 140s at 2,700 is typical is really shorting it by 150 fps.

2nd of all why don't you compare a Hornaday 6.5 120 Amax at 3,000 to a 115 BT?
Seems to make more sense comparing closer bullets weights and shows the better flexibility of the 6.5 that it can go low weight to higher weight bullets and cover any ground a 25 caliber or 27 caliber ( in a 06 case) can.

At 1000y the 6.5/120/3000mv has a velocity of
1,329 fps that puts it just above what a
25-06, excuse me a 257 R can do.

NOT to mention the 123g SMK with a .510 BC that hits 1,429 fps at 1000y.

And while we are at it let's look at what the "real" potential of the 6.5x55 can do.

Let's look at the Swift 130 S2 which btw I just tested this bullet into some wet phone books it penetrated just as much as the 270 130 partition and 6.5 140 AB and had a wider CS.

At 2,900 fps at 1000y it's velocity is
1,500 fps. thats 200 fps faster than a 25/115BT Not bad for a bullet that weighs only 15g more.

Gee, and no wonder I can tell the difference between shooting a 260 Rem and a 25-06 at long range.

Btw, They can tout the 257 R on elk but when it comes down to it on a nice bull hunt which would you rather have?

A 6.5 shooting a 140g NP or a 257 R shooting a 115/120g bullet?

I know which one I'll take.

6.5

Perhaps that explains the 'bias' towards the Roberts.



I don't see elk mentioned in his plans, but what the heck, lets throw in a chance hunt for Cape Buffalo whilst we are at it. I would suggest a 375 Ruger.

6.5 in a Ruger.

This may be one to close to call....yet!

SU: 3000 is doable in the Roberts with the 115

SU35,

The Nosler data uses the really old pressure standard for the .257 Roberts of around 45,000 CUP. In a 24" barrel it's pretty easy to get 3000 out of a 115, and no, this is not .25-06 speed.

With manual data it's pretty easy to beat 3100 with 115-120 grain bullets in the .25-06, and there is published data to that effect. Nosler lists loads for both the 115 and 120-grain that push 3200 in a 24" barrel.

Just for giggles, let's run the data on a 115 Berger VLD at 1000 yards, started at 3150 from a .25-06. Retained velocity is just about 1550 fps, over 200 fps above the 6.5 A-Max started at 3000 from a 6.5x55.

Before Alliant ended up being paired with Speer, their 2005 load data listed .257 Roberts +P data that got 2945 with a 120-grain bullet (not a 115) with the listed pressure as 48,000 psi. In fact have gotten over 3100 fps from a 26" barreled .257 and 115's using Alliant's +P data for RL-22.

I have owned a number of 6.5x55's and haven't found it capable of getting 2850 with a 140 in a 24" barrel, even when loaded to similar pressures, but just for fun let's use some accurate interior ballistics formulas to "convert" a .257/115 at 3000 to a 6.5x55/140 loaded to the same pressure, in the same barrel. The answer comes out to be about 2780. I am not saying 2850 isn't possible, but it would happen at a little higher pressure than a .257 takes to get a 115 to 3000.

I used a 140 A-Max in the Sierra program example because until your post, everybody had suggested the big advantage of the 6.5x55 lay in heavier, more ballistically efficient bullets, not bullets of the same approximate weight. We are also talking about varmints at 1000 yards, not deer. I doubt that a 1000-yard groundhog would ever know the difference between any of the bullets mentioned, at the velocities they retain.

The original poster only plans to use his rifle on deer, not elk, and not anywhere near even 500 yards. I only brought up elk because I have never been able to detect any difference in how well either round kills elk, despite the extra 20 grains of bullet in 6.5mm spitzers. Both cartridges are commonly used on meat elk here in Montana, probably more .257's than 6.5x55's, and nobody I know has had any problems with either round.

I have personally shot quite a few pronghorns and deer with both rounds out to 400 yards, and never could tell the difference, since all the animals either died right there or went at most 30-40 yards. This is the big game use the original poster was asking about. The animals included mature whitetail and mule deer bucks weighing from Montana and Wyoming.

If you can tell the difference in effect between a .260 and .25-06, congratulations.

Gosh, I went through "analysis paralysis" when in the .260 Rem vs .257 Roberts buying mode. Then to make matters worse the "short action Roberts" reared its ugly head, how in the world would I ever shoot the heavier bullets in a short action Roberts! Fate forced my hand into the Roberts because the .260 is scarce and darned if even the 100 grain bullets crammed way down into the cases don't shoot well and kill stuff. Folks like me that shoot deer at usually much less than 150 yards don't need to worry about this stuff, and despite the absolute hate of Kimber rifles here on the fire I sure like my select classic Roberts. After having it for less than a year it would be the last rifle I would part with. What's not to like, accurate, no recoil, kills stuff!

No biggie at all but i was looking at MD post.

Just bought my first BOB, an early 80's Model 70 FWT, and I'm just waiting for it to show up. Going to be strictly a deer rifle for me, primarily western Washington blacktails, with shots out to a max of 400, with most being 250 or less. Had thought about getting a Swede or having one built, but it was just too hard to pass up the looks of that Model 70 FWT stock in BOB configuration. Now I need to get some load and bullet recommendations for it.

Ok, true, but wouldn't you say the data used by Nosler is for the old 6.5x55 as well?
After all the x55 has pretty much the same water capacity of a 260 IMP which i know will get 2,900 mv shooting a 140.
Maybe it comes at higher pressure, I don't know.



I knew that's what you were doing and I figured that I might as well show how flexible the 6.5 was by showing that it can shoot the same weight class of bullets of the 25 caliber but 6.5's for the most part have higher BC's in that weight class than the 25's and can be shot at the same speeds.

As the OP wanted to shoot chucks out to 1000.
There is no way in sam-hill a 257R is going to match up with a 6.5x55 in that category. (show me one 25 caliber rifle in long range competition and I'll show you 500 rifles in 6.5.) Not to mention that he will probably spend most of his time shooting chucks.
The 6.5's simply have to many bullet choices that out BC the 25 calibers , especially with a 123 MK in the 6.5.

On deer/lope at 200y take your pick.

On elk, I would rather take a 6.5x55 and yes I know you guys in Montana take elk with less including the 220 Swift of which is the only round a close friend of mine in Anaconda uses.



As I stated, at long range I do, with the lighter recoiling 260, thank you.

For anyone who thinks it matters.

Here is what I do every Sunday afternoon.

Shoot at, notice I said at, clay birds at 1000y. We get pretty close, within 4" to 6" for about 90% of our shots. I've yet to hit one but i have fun trying.

We do this with 6.5 mountain rifles.

Here's a pic that shows the birds through a spotter.

+1. I looked in 7 different reloading manuals [some of the data was +P] and not ONE manual had any 115-117grain 'bob loads going anywhere near 3000fps. On deer sized game, the difference would be minimal, but when things start getting big, or require deep digging, the 'bob could come up short.

The great advantage to the 6.5s is the VERY high BC and SD values of HUNTING bullets.

Check out what pressure "+P" actually is compared to the pressures of modern cartridges like oh...the 85 year old 270. Load up the Roberts to those pressures, and there is absolutely no reason not to, and you will see what the boys are talking about.

Or just load it to 250AI velocities....

Wow, splitting hairs has rarely gotten this good!

SU35,

I already showed you the numbers on a 115 Ballistic Tip started at 3000 fps at 1000 yards. The differences between that and a super-high BC 140 6.5 were meaningless, and still would be even if you upped the velocity on the 140 100 fps. Either one is perfectly sufficient for killing a chuck, and one is about as easy to hit with as the other.

If you get 2900 from a 140 out of a .260, I can't understand why you can't comprehend getting 3000 out of a 115 from a .257.

dmsbandit,

Ramshot's manual lists 2900 from a 117 bullet at only 56,500 psi. Alliant's manual from 2005 lists 2945 from a 120 at 48,000 psi. Barnes No. 4 lists a 115 at 2907, pressure not given--but even +P .257 data is significatly less than rounds like the .270 Winchester.

What do you define as a "HUNTING" bullet?

I have a friend in Arizona whose kids use the .250 Savage on cow elk. They have killed a dozen, mostly with one shot each, and never recovered a bullet. The bullet used is the 100-grain Nosler Partition.

With the same bullet from a .257 Roberts, I once inadvertently hit a big pronghorn at 300 yards in the right hip (he swapped ends just as I shot). He collapsed right there, and we found the bullet in the left shoulder.

Another friend here in Montana shot a big cow elk in the bones of the left shoulder with a 115-grain Nosler Partition from a .257 Roberts. The bullet was recovered under the hide on the far side.

My wife and I have killed a number of big deer (200-250 pounds live weight) with 100-grain Barnes TSX and 115-grain Nosler Partitions, and only recovered one bullet. That came from the biggest whitetail I've ever taken, what you would call an 11-pointer that weighed over 200 pounds. He was quartering strongly toward me, and the bullet hit the big shoulder joint. He dropped right there and never moved, and I found the bullet under the hide on the far side a few inches behind the rib cage.

How many big game animals have you seen shot with a .257 Roberts where a HUNTING bullet failed to penetrate sufficiently?

Hell I consider the 250AI my BIG gun to bring along in conjunction with the 223AI.

For deer and smaller, I'd go with the 257Roberts, hands down!

Here's what mine did with lighter bullets.



...... and heavier ones!


.

Mule Deer,
I specified hunting bullets because I know there are many more high BC match for the 6.5 than the 257 and I wanted to compare apples to apples.

The books I referenced for the 'bob velocities are the following.

Ken Water's Pet loads. Top velocity measured was:
115 Nosler -2865fps
117 Sierra -2811
120 Nosler -2747
120 Hornady -2803
120 Speer SP -2680

Speer #14 +P loads
115 TBBC SP-2873fps
120 SPBT,SP, GS - 2793

Lyman #49 +P Sierra 117gr 2729 fps [AA4350]

Sierra edition#4 117gr SBT 2800fps
117gr SBT 2900fps [257 Ackley]

Hornady #7 +P loads
117gr -2900fps
120gr -2800fps


Lee Modern reloading
117gr -2736fps
120gr -2800fps
125gr -2681fps

Speer#12 +P
120gr -2793fps

Nosler #4
115gr -2827fps
120gr -2810fps

Hodgdon #25
IMR powder -117/120gr -2757fps
hodgdon -117/120gr -2777fps
winchester -117/120gr -2718fps
Alliante/hercules -117/120gr -2817fps

Barnes #3 115gr XFB -2896fps

If you are reaching the velocities as you stated, then you must have a "fast" barrel, or a longer barrel than is commonly seen with the 'bob. Most of the listed velocities are with 22-24" barrels in the manuals I have.

I have one of each, but I don't consider myself to be "real smart". Both cartridges just work.

.

will (3)100gr Nosler BTs do for chucks?




How about these 140s for deer to moose?

dmsbandit,

This discussion started with a post from somebody who wanted a deer rifle for moderate ranges, and a varmint rifle for longer ranges. The high-BC bullets I mentioned were to illustrate the .257's potential for ultra-range varmint shooting--though the 115 Ballistic Tip and Berger VLD's are also excellent deer bullets. I have also seen a pile of big game shot with both of those as well, though I would tend to use those for open-country shooting rather than timber hunting, where I'd prefer a Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX.

Let me address the sources you pick for loading data one at a a time:

Ken Waters' standard method for working up loads is to measure the case-head expansion of factory ammo, then work up his loads until the case-head expansion is the same as for factories. His data is therefore always going to be about like factory ammo, and the .257 has always been notoriously underloaded by the factories.

Speer generally works up their load data in a pressure barrel, then shoots it for velocity in a factory rifle, in the case of the .257 a Ruger 77. Factory rifle almost always have "looser" barrels than pressure barrels, therefore develop less pressure--and velocity. Factory rifles also vary considerably, the reason that in one recent Speer manual the .308 Winchester was shown as getting higher velocities than the .30-06.

The Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, Winchester and "Alliant/Hercules" manuals you cite all use older, very low pressure limits for their .257 data. There is no reason to stick to these limits (around 45,000 CUP or 50,000 psi) in modern rifles. The Lee manual just gets its data from other manuals. It also appears to be lower-pressure data.

The Nosler manual's data is +P, but for some reason they didn't try any of the best powders for heavy bullets in their 115-grain data, such as RL-19, RL-22 and Ramshot Magnum. They did try RL-19 with their 110-grain bullet and got 2940 fps.

The Barnes manual you cite is out of date. The old-style X-Bullet produced high pressures, but the latest Triple-Shock bullet (with a grooved shank) produces pressures very similar to other bullets, so higher velocities can easily be attained.

The Hornady +P data list 2900 fps with a 117-grain. Higher velocities would be safely possible with a 115, both because of the lighter bullet, and because Hornady (like Sierra) rounds off their data to the nearest 100 fps, rather than listing the actual highest velocity.

The sources I listed feature much better powders for the purpose, but even then +P data for the .257 is limited to lower pressures than for cartridges like the .270 Winchester.

The only reasons the "accepted" pressure is lower for the .257 are tradition, plus a very few really old rifles. In a modern rifle there is no earthly reason that the .257 can't be pushed to 60,000 psi. This is the level I load my .257 ammo to, and it works just fine. It is VERY easy to get 2900 fps with 115-grain bullets in the .257 even from a 22" barrel, and in a 24" barrel right around 3000 fps is also easy--with the right powders.

No, none of the dozen or more .257 Roberts rifles I've loaded for have had "fast" barrels. I've just used the best modern powders and loaded .257 ammo to the same pressure levels as other cartridges, such as the .260 Remington, .270 Winchester, etc. If we loaded the 6.5x55 to standard SAAMI pressures it would likewise show low velocities.

Not at all,and this is a common misconception when it comes to the Roberts..

My experience with the cartridge goes back to the 70's and I have had several;firnds have added to the mix with a few others.My notes from that far back are long gone,but some I remember were a pre 64M70 with 24" barrel,a Ruger M77 with 22" barrel, a custom Mauser with 24" barrel,and my old FW PF with 22" tube.

All these rifles would variously give 3050 to 3200 with a 100 gr bullet,2900-2950 with 120's,and 3000-3050 with the 115 gr from these 22"-24" tubes.FWIW,87's could be easily loaded in excess of 3300.

The Roberts is one of those cartridges (like the 7x57 and 280 Remington), whose velocities can be improved by judicious handloading,and due to the fact that factory and manual velocities were held to low levels,and for no good apparent reason since it was always chambered in good strong bolt actions...whatever...I suspect it dates back to the early origins of the Roberts,and the fact that the crummy bullets available back then shot better at more sedate velocities,and maybe concerns about the M96 Mausers and other surplus actions that got chambered for the cartridges,as they were perceived to be "weaker" actions.

Fact of the matter is that the above velocities are easily attained with modern powders in bolt action rifles and 22-24" barrels.That old FW I had gave right at 3200 with the 100 gr Nosler Partition, and consistently showed 2950 with the 120.I used that rifle with the 100 gr Partition to take my largest pronghorn at close to 400 yards.

I'll also note that case life was always good with these heavier loads;no primer popping or other difficulties ever encountered.

I never used the 115 very much but that Ruger(which belonged to the wife of a friend),gave 3000-3050 with the 115 Partition and she used it on black bear, mule deer,and pronghorn antelope.Barrel was a 22" factory job.

If these velocities seem eerily close to what a 25/06 delivers from factory ammo,that's because they are.....one of the reasons I never bothered a whole lot with the 25/06...there was just never much need.The two cartridges seemed so much alike in the field I could not really distinguish between them.

My present Roberts,a fine custom on a pre war M70 action, gives a sedate 3000 fps with the 100 gr bullets and I will leave well enough alone....I know what a 100 gr Partition is capable of at that velocity level.That said the manual loads are interesting but can be improved upon pretty easily without blowing yourself into DNA...or even coming close for that matter.

AMEN!

LMAO...

What about the 7x57 numbers, just to be fair ?

My theory was that he runs his Bob from a standard length mag, allowing more powder capacity to seat the bullets shallower into the case.

(sorry JB, I just couldn't resist!)

luvsomeshootin' somebody said what needed to be said a long while back on this thread: buy one of each!

Now go back and look at only opinions of those you really trust. The choice will be obvious.

Somebody needs to the address the larger frontal area of the 6.5X55...0.000380132 square feet versus 0.000360241 square feet for the Bob... translates into larger blood trails, more visual effect of bullet impact. (The above numers were rounded to the nearest billionth of a square foot)

Only a cynical person would make a statement like that.

LOL!


I guess what all this shows is that the two cartridges are pretty close,and not to split hairs,but a guy might pick the Roberts if the focus is varmints and deer;and if he mixes elk-sized stuff into the mix those heavier 6.5 bullets may come in handy.Pretty hard to go wrong either way......

BobinNH - my calculator's busted. Just how many decimal places is that? LOL Regards, Homesteader.

I don't know, I guess I give up. If 5 of the manuals [(2) Speer, Hornady, Lyman, Nosler,]I listed use +P data and they don't give the velocities others have claimed, and the 257 AI data doesn't give the velocities stated for the standard 'bob then something is funky somewhere.

Nice Post Bob! What else can be added? Game cleanly taken to 400 yards, black bear no problem, deer no problem...in a light recoiling, low report and increasingly popular classic round based on one of the best cartridges ever designed the 7 x 57.

Dude its real simple for me. Put 47 grains of H4350 behind a 100 grain bullet and let fly. Zero signs of pressure, reload the same cases probably on their 5th or 6th reloading.

Main Entry: cyn�i�cal
Pronunciation: \ˈsi-ni-kəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1542
1 : captious, peevish
2 : having or showing the attitude or temper of a cynic: as a : contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives <those cynical men who say that democracy cannot be honest and efficient � F. D. Roosevelt> b : based on or reflecting a belief that human conduct is motivated primarily by self-interest <a cynical ploy to cheat customers>
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Negative. I trust completely that the posters believe what they write. Some are credible, some not so much.

Ref: 6.5mm Swede or the .257 "Bob". Guess the best answer to this question (which one is better - in case that got lost in the sauce)is to set their safety's on "decimal point" instead
of "fire". I like them both and the "Bob" is on my wish list disguised as a Ruger M77HE in blued chrome moly and walnut. Regards, Homesteader.

You're talking about what is for all practical purposes the same cartridge, only one has a .257 bullet and the other has a .264 bullet, a whopping .007 difference.

Find the gun you like and let that drive your decision. In the unlikely event that you find a model chambered in both, buy the one the dealer has in stock. If he has both in stock, buy the one with the nicest wood.

I'd go for a Tikka T3 in 6.5x55. I don't think it's available in 257.

Remarkable, is it not?

The more miniscule the differences, the more heated the discussions.

Here are the metrics of it:

6.52x57mm
6.71x55mm

We have learned, that equal pressures are possible.

Conclusion:

The two are more of the same than they are different.

I'd also agree with many that the real difference between the two is moot. I'd spend all my time focusing on rifle selection based on what you can afford.

Personally, I see the Ruger Hawkeye Ultra light in .257 bob as being pretty hard to beat. YMMV.

CLB

It is interesting that this topic showed because I was thinking along these lines. After thumbing through the popular reloading manuals and seeing the same thing those here have stated,i.e.: the 257 Rob has been notoriously under loaded through out it's life time. It like, the 7 X 57 is 95% of its modern brethren.

Where can one find decent modern load data for this great round?

Ramshot's data for the .257 is "modern," though it's of course limited to Ramshot powders (not a bad thing at all, as Hunter and Magnum both work very well in the Bob).

Nosler's data for the 100 and 110-grain bullets is good, but for some reason they don't include what I have found to be the best powders for 115 and 120-grain bullets.

If you can find an Alliant data booklet from a few years ago (mine is from 2005) there is some really good +P data, shot from a pressure barrel. But their latest data is all straight from the Speer manual, shot from a factory rifle that apparently has a loooong throat. The powder charges are semi-modern but the velocities are on the slow side.

Also, I find it interesting that Nosler's data doesn't provide any loads for 110gr Accubonds at the 3000fps mark which, their branded ammunition is said to deliver. Hmmmm, any chrony results out there?

I could be wrong but seems to me that the other night I was looking at a new Nozler booklet and the speeds they had in it struck me as being pleasently realistic.

Dober

Out to 200 yds for deer, take your pick as there's no diff. What one will do the other will do.

As to chucks at long range with either round you'll need a shooter friendly wind and you'll be turning turrets with either so once again take your pick.

Dober

Dober - where is the wisdom of King Solomon when he's needed? He had a similar decision way back when...I like the "Bob" because I load for the .25/06 and the "Roy" while my Swede is in the CZ550FS flavor (love them Mannlichers and metrics). Regards, Homesteader.

The way I see it, load a 117 Nozler in the Rbts @ 2900 and a 140 Nozler in the Swede @ 2700 and good things will happen when the bullets are directed in the proper manner.

Bottom line, and all BG (ballistic gack) aside this stuff is only rocket science when we choose to make it such and or when people run with their own agendas instead of experience and intellect.

Bottom line, I'll keep taking my 06 Improved aka the .270 and kick butt take names and fill up arks...grin

Dober

Its been an interesting read albeit a lot of hair splitting going on. Good stuff for rifle loonies. All your angst can be solved with a nice .270WCF.

I think it's going to come up a tie...go for the rifle you like

the 30-06 improved is a good choice and the 130 rules!

Never cast my vote. Go for the Bob IMHO.

I learned a lot from this thread.

A little more en-lightened about the 257R.

PeRmit me Ce Kwestion. Englis ist not my mocertongue -

WCF - As is .270 What Ce Fu..?

Who needs a .277 when a .284 can be had?

Itz differcuault to finds a 7 x 57 these hear days witch iz fur shure what U iz axing abuot? WCF iz Winechastar Cintar Fare

Maybe a couple of you guys can verify this. I believe Ned Roberts and Townsend Whelen first tried to get the 25-06 to perform but realized it was greatly overbored with the powder available at the time and wouldn't perform. They dropped that cartridge (30-06) and backed down to the 7x57, necked it down to .25 and the rest is history. Is that about right?

dms: There is really nothing funky going on here ....different rifles chambered for the same cartridge can easily show "5% or so" variations in the velocities they deliver at safe pressures with the same load.

Mix in different barrels, throat lengths,hardness of bullet jackets and other factors too numerous to mention and you wind up with different results from what a manual may demonstrate,which is why to some extent manual data is a guide and not an absolute.....we know this by the number of reports we get on here about "such and such" a load giving only "X" velocity from one rifle and "Y" velocity from another.

This is about all we are talking about in the Roberts,and the velocities we are discussing.I have found over the years that the best way to answer questions about cartridges is to own and shoot rifles chambered for them.

Yep, They are neck in neck, in the final stretch.

For about 5 years in the 1980's my go-to deer rifle was a M1952 Mannlicher-Schoenauer .257 Roberts. With it I killed a handfull of Pennsylvania bucks and a small pickup truck load of Mulies and Pronghorns in Wyoming. 100gr. Norma (which you could still find back then) @ 3000fps. A very pleasant rifle to work with, and that load killed with alacrity (but all shots were under 200yds. as I recall).

I then snatched up one of the first M70 FWT's in 6.5x55 and proceeded to kill another pile of deer-sized game, using 129gr. Hornady's and Nosler140gr. Partitions. Again, a very pleasant, accurate rifle to work with that also killed like the Hammer of Thor. (Sorry, had to slip that in!)

My point is that through strictly empirical observation/usage I can't honestly tell a mouse's breath difference in practical performance. Close your eyes and pick one, if you can't have both. Or get a 6.5x57 and split the difference!

The "hammer of Thor" is entirely appropriate when discussing a cartridge designed and used by Norskys and Swedes.

Only when used indiscriminately is HOT not so hot.

Tikka T3 in 6.5x55

Good god! I start with a simple question then go in the hospital for 3 days and all heII breaks loose! I'll just flip a coin. Heads the roberts and tails the swede! Here we go.................

There's nothing simple about asking about what caliber is better...

For what it's worth, I hunt with the 6.5x55 and love it. But I'd love to own a 257 Roberts and doubt you'll be able to tell a lick of difference between them 99.9% of the time.

The best of advice is to find the rifle you want and take home which ever of the two calibers it comes in.

Your question sure has provided some fun here. It's something like going onto a truck forum and asking which is better, Chev 1500 or Ford 150?
Most of us hunt someplace near home. I hunted for over 40 years in the way up north of NY so I know a little about the game up there. I also have a 250 Robt. Ackley Imp. and have a PacNor barreled 6.5x55 on the way. Either one will take anything in northern NY from field mouse to Adirondack black bear.

Your decision making process process of a coin flip may serve you well.

Take a look around the stores where you purchase your sporting goods for ammo. Have they got what you will need?

I have an opinion which may be less valuable then the coin you flip.

6.5x55 - if you use factory ammo it offers closer to the stuff I like for NY State.
If you handload you MAY get a LITTLE more out of the 6.5.
The 6.5 will also allow heavier bullets.

Whichever you choose, you will not be disappointed.

Thanks for the great question and
Best to you.

Jim

I asked myself the same question, which caliber. I had to get them both. I am now the owner of a T3 6.5 and a Hawkeye 257 roberts which my daughter will be shooting this year. The tough question is which load.

Greetings Gentlemen,

I just became a member of 24hourCF this evening because of this thread. Excellent, courteous back and fourth discussion, backed up with reasonable numbers and practical hunting experience. Thank you.

I already have a 222R and a 270 WCF and was looking for a caliber between the two for coyotes and larger deer at ranges from about 75 to 300yds or so. So after some thought and research I decided on the 257 Roberts and purchased two Ruger M77 rifles in that caliber. Then I started having second thoughts about effectiveness on a big muley right at the 300yd mark (with proper shot placement of course) when I really looked hard at the "Load Book" velocities plugged into a ballistics calculator. Just that last 50-70 yards made me think I should limit my shots to 250-260 vice 300 or so. Made me think I should have gone with a 6.5x55 or 260 shooting faster 120 grainers.

I now have a lot more confidence with my choice. I think the Nosler 110gr AB at 3000fps or a 115PT at 2900fps or a host of other fine bullets would do the job very effectively.

I found a larger degree of meat destruction with the 270WCF at closer ranges, and that is why I was looking for a between caliber. I just wanted a 257 Roberts.

Thanks again and I'll be seeing you around the campfire.

Regards

Chevy....always

joehemi,

Welcome to the fire. I don't own a 257 Bob, but I wouldn't be uneasy about how it would perform out to 500 yards. Considering that's further than I've ever shot at game, I wouldn't feel handicapped at all...

joehemi

welcome to the fire. Your reasons for the 257 bob are valid. They could be used as well if 6.5 was your choice.

Randy