'Neither'.

270 Winchester of course!

The 7mm because it has Express in the name. It automatically make it kill DRT.

Thinking it'd be the 7mm/06...

Dober

The 7mm Express wayyyyyyyyyyy "overpenetrates" ...... that's why I went with the .280.

Waiting to see what the experts say on this one. Bound to be at least one, I bet more than one around.

It's really odd...because I have a .280; have had a couple others. And I have two sets of 7mm Express dies -- and they both work just fine reloading for all the .280's I've had... .

It's near to a miracle, near as I can tell... .

Dennis

ps...all three of my .280's were far better than either of the .270's I've had... .

The .280 of course! I always seem to mispell Epxrees and when labeling your reloads if you just put 7mm you can get it confused with the 7x57 stuff you got sitting around.

Also as everyone knows Eecpress means CHEAP finish when used by Remington. I like my bullets shiny!

balderdash. *grins*

I know...it's quite a mystery why it works like that...

Dennis

You can get more powder in the Express case than the .280 case.

So it's got to be faster. The 7-06 that Dober brought up will hold more than the Express.

So maybe it's the best?

Ask that question 30 years from now & you'll have your answer...

You know Middlefork, there is an answer, but I'm betting they don't hit on it.

I seem to remember someone yanking chain at the local Sportsmans Whorehouse touting the 6.8-06 and suggesting it would be the new wonder round. Got the bobblehead doll behind the counter counting time on that one...

Just saying...
art

I say go with the 7x64, because the others don't match up baliistically!

Where was it at?

That sounds like something my brother-in-law would say.

He tried to make a .308 a .300 magnum one time...

How bout a 6.8-06 vs. .270 thread?

LMAO

I don't like either one.

I like the .244 Remington better and the 6mm Remington flat blows them all into the weeds.

JM......is that avitar out of your baby book????

The local Whorehouse in Anchorage... Darryl had the guy just nodding and grinning, fantasizing it seemed, about the new round...

I'm another fan of the 7x64.

Although, the 7.62x63 is pretty good, too.

My 1979 Remington Model 700 BDL is chambered for the 7mm Express cartridge by the barrel marking. It is a fine 280, so I'm torn...

This is a no-brainer...the one with the synthetic stock is way better.

That's my boy, ain't he a dandy.

I don't trust John Moses. He asks trick questions. The only true answer is a .284 x 63mm. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I'm bettin he takes after his Pa!

In my experience the .280 is far superior, since every animal I've shot at with the .280 died, and none of them I shot at with the 7mm Express died.

Of course, I have never shot at any animals with the 7mm Express, but relatively little experience doesn't seem to matter much on the Internet.

Experience can be so hard to come by, what with leaving the house and all.

I've never owned either rifle, but I stayed in Holiday Inn Express last night.

AJD, he got his mommas ears and hair...

I'm going with the 270 necked up to 284. I think that'll work mo' betterer

Look out now!

I prefer the 275 Rigby

There is a difference, but ya'll ain't even close.

270

Bob, I expected you to know.

I will sweeten the deal. Whomever comes up with the correct answer will win an African Safari with JB as your guide.

Ingwe will handle all gunbearer duties while sporting his african bush thong.

I feel sorry for Ken Waters (of "Pet Loads" fame). He had two serious separate reviews of both the 280 Rem and 7mm Express the the same volume of "Pet Loads." Ultimately, they were very truthful. The two separate reviews/evals were well done. They didn't compare one to the other. The results indicated they were both capable and useful cartridges.

I guess he didn't see the forest because of the trees. Memo to Ken Waters: "They are both the same." The marketing guys just tryied to hype and hump a new round-and you didn't catch it. To his credit, he work indicated one was not better than the other-but he never reported they were the same-except for the headstamp. I always wondered how Waters felt before, during and after he wrote those two reports. Did he ever feel like a stooge? Maybe we'll never know.

Yep...did he ever build one for himself? Mind you, I do like the 6.8x63...I just like the .280 converted to 7mm Express ever so much better...

The 7mm-06 is different...suppose very many actually know that?

Dennis

Take me out of the contest...NOW!!!

ETA: Nothing personal John...

The 7mm Express has more powder in the factory ammunition than the .280 ammo, of the same era. Not sure what else is different, unless you know of some other subtle factory loading issue. In all seriousness and reality -- I've owned my current .280 and my RCBS 7mm Express dies since 1985, so I do have a small clue about their relationship... .

Dennis

We have a winner.

But I may be wrong. The 7MM Express was loaded hotter which made it way over penetrate.

So the .280 is better.

Well, that settled that .........


Wait, why is this thread 5 pages long already?.....





Casey

So, you mean the 7mm Express was loaded like a 270W?.....



Casey

Precisely. That's the whole reason they renamed it and reintroduced it -- so it would be loaded for bolt action rifles at the .270 et al level, rather than being held down for the 740's and 760's...even though the same pump and semiauto rifles were chambered for the .270 and .30-'06 cartridges loaded to higher pressures than the original .280's.

So tell me how I'll receive my prize... ?

Dennis

So now you know why I have a .280 rifle with 7MM Express handloading equipment...

Dennis

I shot two boxes of 7mm Express ammo thru the last 280 I owned...worked OK.....then I bought a 7x64....

but the 7mm Rem Mag beats them all for velocity....:-)

I like the question......But what about the 30.06 vs the .270 .........Hillbilly.

It's a tie- The 7MM Express has greater frontal area, but the 280 has a better selection of bullets for the reloader-

Right... ...that's why I use 7mm Express dies for reloading my .280... .

Dennis

Dennis
Do you have to anneal the necks when you do that?

Also, since I have you on the line, here is a reloading question that has ben bugging me. How heavy does a rifle have to be before I should use large rifle primers? Eight, nine pounds?

Thanks in advance.

Fred

Fred,

Under about 8.5 lbs, you should use magnum primers, because the rifle will kick more...

You're welcome... ...

Dennis

A 7mm-'06 AI whups ass on either, of course....

Neither the STW

+1 on the 7mm-06 AI, my 45+ year old rifle is still doing the job.
Phil

Is it truly a 7mm-06 AI, or a .280 AI? They are different, you know...

Dennis

AI: the cartridge that delivers an extra 100 fps and excites those who love to crow about how 100 fps don't matter.... grin...

The 7mm Express, but only because it was available in the "pre 1981 Model 700", I think.

Just curious...why did you build a 7mm-06 AI instead of building a .280 AI? I can see doing it before the .280 came out, but not afterwards. But maybe there's a reason I'm missing?

Dennis

Dennis,
This is a rifle that my uncle had built back in the early 60's (I am not sure of the exact year as being youngster at that time it did not register), I know through conversations with him prior to him passing is he felt this cartridge was good enough to take any game animal in AZ and I am sure that the abundance of 06 brass played into his decision (my theory only).
I have been using this rifle for the last 20 years myself and it has served extremely well.
It is a true 7mm-06 AI not a 280AI
I hope that answers your question.
Phil

The .280 by far the superior choice. There is more load data for the .280 and are there 7mm Express AI chamber reamers available?

The thought of a 7mm Express AI is just goofy!

Close. I beleive the story was that SAAMI specs allowed the Express to run at higher pressures--to high for Remington's autoloaders. Remington reintroduced the Express as the 280 with lower SAAMI pressures offered in their auto loading rifles.

GB

the .277-'06 providing smiles since '25

I'm thinking you would have received more response if this was posted in the correct forum - this question definitely belongs in "Ask the Gunwriters"...

It was a joke. Geez.

What about a .280 Whelen? That would be a far superior cartridge to either in the same package.

DOH ! ! !


fish head

The 280, for sure....because Remington never chambered their Mountain rifles in Express. I sure wish I had bought the ADL Express I saw many moons ago in a local store though.

Damn. Beat me to it by two posts.

The 280 Whelen beats both the 280 Rem and 7mm Express Rem due to 'capacity.' Not sure which 'capacity' but I know it's betterer.

A guy I know has a 280 Whelen AI. Now there's a real rifle cartridge, by golly!

-

7mm Express AI beats them all.

The express brass has a special Venturi chamber in the neck.

Some get the jokes, but I fear some think there is a physical difference between the .280 and the 7mm Express cases.

I think it was pretty funny.. .

Dennis

well, it is kinda funny but, on a more serious note: can you use 7mm bullets in the .280, or do you have to swage 'em down .004"?

Get some class go with the 7x64....

7x64 = 448, which is a lot more than 280.

Bruce

.280 Remington shoots .284 diameter bullets, just like the 7x57 Mauser, .284 Winchester, 7mm Remington Mag, etc.

I'm saying this on the assumption that it's a real question... .

Dennis

Would I ask anything but a real question on a thread titled as it is?

I rebarreled all my 7mm Express rifles to 280 Remington when ammo for the 7mm Express became too hard to find. I honestly can't see much difference, but I like the silver cases with black bullets.
Last year my buddy shot his elk with his 280 Remington, using Winchester ammo and the bullet did OK, but the jacket went clear through the elk without the lead part. I told him he's just asking for problems like that when he mismatches ammo and gun brands. He's looking for someone with a 280 Winchester, to sell them some ammo cheap...19 rounds.
Hope this helps.

So was mine - I'm not a turd for nothing...

I should have caught that. Touche'

And another thing: you guys could learn alot if you'd take me off ignore.

My wife wants to know how to do that...

Klik,

I have actually passed up TWO Remington 700's in 7mm Express, both in good shape and for sale at really reasonable prices at a local store.

I suspect the reason they're not pricier is that the average guy thinks he can't get ammo for 'em (and the collectors want NIB).

I should have bought one of them, then gone out and shot a few animals, in order to be able to claim "field experience" with the 7mm Express.....

Well Jarrett used the .280 and not the Express to AI and the rest was history....grins or touche whichever works.

John, don't go claimin' no field experience without dead animal pictures.

LOL! Your logic is impeccable, but 7x57 = a lot more.

LOL! You're a bad, bad man.

LMAO. Too funny. All of you .280 shooters have been lying.

Well I may have accidentally stumbled on some mislabeled factory ammunition last night. I saw a green and yellow box of Remington Core Lokts marked:

280 Remington
150 Gr PSP
(Suitable for use in 7mm Express)

.....Remington ought not be tellin people they can use the same ammo in two differently chambered rifles

280 rem and 7mm express are the same, the 280 rem came out in the
50,s and in the early 80 decided to change the name, to boost its sales, and all it did was cause grief, people were trying to load 7mm rem mag into the 280 and 7mm rem exp into the mag
and of course the later would chamber in the mag, and I dont know if it caused any lawsuits. but they decided to go back to 280 rem

there the same cartridge rem just tried a new name in the 80,s
and it caused prob with inexperienced shooters as the 7mm mag

I'm pretty sure virtually everyone commenting here knows all that...we were mostly making jokes... .

It is without question one of my all-time favorite cartridges; I've owned up to three rifles chambered to it at one time; my current tang-safety 77 I've only had 25 years, so I know a little bit about it. It does kill a lot of game, at least... .

Dennis

Thanks muledeer for pointing out we all already knew that.

md, my FIL has had the same rifle for over 25 years as well....I'm pretty sure he'll be buried with it.

285 OKH with frontal ignition.
Doc

Having no experience with "either", "7mm Express" sounds wimpy and fails to stir my blood while ".280 Remington" sounds like a cartridge I'd like to get to know...

Those marketing types can sure be idiots...

I just sold a rifle that was marked both ways: "280 Remington & 7mm Express Remington." It was a Ruger M77.

Maybe that's why they call them Model 77 Mark II's...they can be marked with two cartridge designations? I used to have one in 6mm/244Remington, which proves my point. Kinda. Well, kinda not...

No schit?

Glad you added the grin there, would have thought you were serious...

Don't you have a Kimber that needs rebarreling?

Actually a few got out the door at Remington that were stamped, 7mm-06...............

MM

How about a rifle for all conditions.

It could be stamped:

.280 rem, 7mm express, 7mm-06, .280 whelan

Four in one. Talkin' about getting your monies worth. Huh.

That would end a lot debates on ....... vs ........

Pure genius from a marketing standpoint.


fish head

Can't be done -- because while the .280 Remington and 7mm Express are exactly the same case, the 7mm-06 is not. It is based on a .30-06 case, and is enough shorter in the shoulder length that you can't load .280/7mm Express brass in true, genuine 7mm-06 chambers. Assuming that the ".280 Whelen" is based on nothing but a Whelen case necked down to .284 -- you won't be able to chamber .280/7mm Express catridges in it either.

So you have a minimum of two, and perhaps three, chambers and cases for them described...

Dennis

Dead on, Dennis.

The ones that got out marked 7mm-06 were a mistake............as soon as somebody at Rem pulled their head outta their azz, that got changed, right quick like.

MM

Yep, the .280 Remington is a necked down 30-06 with a pressure limit of 50,000 cup and the shoulder moved forward so it couldn�t be chambered in a .270 Winchester.
The .280 was set at this lower pressure because it was 50,000 introduced in Remington�s semi-automatic and pump-action rifles of the 1950�s, which were not designed for higher pressure.
In 1979 Remington introduced the 7mm Express in bolt-action rifles only, (I have a 7mm Express) and this round as has a working pressure of 52,000 cup 2,000 cup more than the .280. I have a Remington reloading manual from 1980 and it lists both the 7mm Express and the .280 and shows the difference in max working pressure as listed above. Dimensionally they are the identical and if used in old autoloaders the lower pressure load of the .280 should be used, but in modern bolt action and semi-auto rifles 52,000 cup or so, the pressure design of the 7mm Express and could be used. The 7mm Express and new .280 are being condemned to the lower pressure of the 1950�s .280 pressure loads which I see in most reloading manuals in the 48,000 cup range and this cheats the 7mm Express owners and .280 bolt action rifle owners out of the potential of this excellent cartridge.
Thanks.

I'll bet that anytime you find a seller at a gunshow with one stamped 7MM Express, he'll provide evidence (through pricing) that it is far superior to the .280.

On a related note, Remington missed a golden marketing opportunity. They could have kept the 7MM Express name for the .280 and renamed their belted 7MM the 7MM Excess and had a matched set of catchy names.

Well since the .270 is actually a 6.8-03 it would have a touch more capacity....just saying

indeed !

Now, that's funny right there.

Well, Remington chose the 280 over the 7mm Express. That oughta count for something....I mean nothing.

I don't understand the question ....could you repeat it?

Muledeer: I have owned and successfully Hunted with both "calibers/cartridges" in question here.
I specifically remember the reason the fine folks at Big Green "changed" the caliber designation of the 7mm Remington Express back to 280 Remington - and that reason being folks (both buyers/users and sellers) got the 7mm Remington Express "cornfused" with the 7mm Remington Magnum!
The 280 Remington (7mm Remington Express) is one of the finest of Remingtons proprietary cartridges and no matter what it is called this cartridge works wonders on game up to and including Elk, IME!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Neither, I'd go 7mm rem mag.

Found a 700 BDL Custom Deluxe marked 7MM EXP. REM. today and brought it home. I think it means 7mm Experimental - never had one before. Its a pre-'81 D&T'd for receiver sight. Wonder what twist?

I think those 7mm Express marked barrels are way cool.

My Ruger M77 has both.

I just checked my tried and true 7600 and it is stamped '280 Remington'. It loves Hornady 139 BTSP's over IMR-4350.

The 280 Remington HAS to be better...cuz that's what Browning chambers it's rifles in!!

CDNN has Ruger Hawkeyes in 280 Rem plus a couple of other
calibers on clearance.

My #1 says 7mm Express but can morph into a 280 at will..even the headstamps are interchangeable who woulda ever thunk it!...a 270 can't do dat!!

What's a 270? Is that like a 9x30 or something?

So do I!

I'd think twice about using it on an international hunt, where you have to go thru customs, tho- explaining that barrel marking and .280 headstamps on your ammo may be too much for a customtard to comprehend.