Just curious. Thinking of putting together a new toy that'll buck the wind a little better than the 22-250. Open to advice.

Should be able to get 105 AMAX's to work

Yep - I've got a factory 700VS that shoots the 105 A-Max's really well. First powder I tried was Retumbo and that's where I stopped.

Kevin

Wanted to bump this. Considering a factory 243. But the factory twist of 9 1/8" has me concerned. Altitude will only be 1600ft or more. From what I have seen, none of the high BC bullets, 105 range, will work.

Jesse... give the 105 A-Max a look. I'm in the process of putting together my second 243/243 A.I. using a 700 takeoff together. at your elevation, it will stabilize it...

The more speed, the better the odds of a "tweener" bullet stabilizing right? A 26" tube would assist this.

Speed helps but not near the amount that cold hurts, if that matters.

You won't need the increased RPMs, it'll likely spin them fine from the get-go.

115 DTAC's and Bergers absolutely would not stabilize out of my 9.125 tubes but 105's always did.

Hey Jess

At 4000 feet my 24" 700's wouldn't shoot them very well at all. I will try the 26" SPS varmint this week. Any excuse to burn some powder.

Careful, you might get (crazy) people all stirred up if it's discovered there are 6mm's that have numbers advantages over a .243, and 105's.

Or perhaps this'd be the perfect opportunity to point out how vastly inferior the 6mm's are, when compared to other calibers. You know, start chit-slingin' 'bout something that wasn't being discussed.

Nahhhh, I'll leave that for The Clown.

Sounds like he just got a crazy person "stirred up"...

You believe. A 7.5 or 8 twist 243 WILL shoot a 105, no speculation. My 9 twist 243 Ruger did not like 105's. I cannot see ever hamstringing yourself right out of the gate, certainly would never build a 243 with a 9 twist.

He's not building, so my suggestion of the 105 in a factory 700 barrel was based around that. Building from scratch, I'd most surely buy an 8 twist.

That being said... I've had success with the same combo before, and the JBM stability calculator is in favor of it (I don't place a huge amount of faith in this, but it is helpful).

Just my thoughts. It'd be worth it to buy a box or 2 at least.

I put a 6mm Rem Barrel on a Model 700 Long Action...
heavy magnum contour, stainless Pac Nor barrel...
with a one in 7 twist....

It is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned...

it will shoot 115 grain Bergers, all day long at 3250 fps...

yet 75 V Maxes and all the 75 grain HPs on the market, still work with that fast of a twist, and leaving the barrel in excess of 3700 fps... ( yeah a little hot, but doesn't seem to phase the rifle or the brass)

A 7 sounds like a winner, a 9 is a dud.

http://highcountryshooters.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1402&page=all

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=838189

(Brad's tube is a custom, but a 1-9" still).



these guys have had some luck with the combo, 105s in a 1-9".

1 week ago. Factory 9.125" twist, 105AM, .243AI...

Nope. I am not building. Cruising for a left handed rifle on the cheap. I'd build on a 8 twist or more given the option. Just contemplating on grabbing a 700 SPS Varmint and cashing in on a limited time rebate. Getting the rifle for wholesale plus $10 in addition to the $50 rebate gets me into a LH SA 700 action with bottom metal(plastic) probably cheaper than I could buy one used.

I don't currently have anything in .243 and thought I'd burn powder and better my LR theories in the mean.

Even the 95 Bergers at .480 look good to me for ringing steel 800 and under.

You'll be rocking with that setup. It'll get you to 1k easily.

Tanner, I seem to remember you complaining that your prior 243 wouldn't shoot the heavies. Now you are building another slow twist 243 and touting the results ahead of time. Bravo.

A 9 might stabilize a 105, but a 7 or 8 definitely will. I have never wished I had a gun that couldn't shoot everything.

Not true at all. I shot them out to 700 yards and they did fine. I did get schooled by the wind, however. They grouped up nicely out to 600 yards.

Jesse,

The pictures I posted above are of groups shot with a 700 SPS Varmint, with a few tweaks. But the barrel is the factory SPS-V barrel.

A 9 twist ain't exactly "slow", and you must not have much hands-on time with 105's if you think a 7 twist is necessary. An 8" twist will spin up the 115's just fine...

Didn't say a 7 twist was necessary, I said it was guaranteed to work with 105s and any 6mm bullet currently on the market for that matter.

So when you burn out your current barrel, what twist are you going to order? Surely not another 9...

I guess the people at places like Pacnor should have consulted you and Tanner before offering a 6mm tube faster than an 8.

Drew, I already stated that I'm using an 8 on my next 6mm barrel so I would never make a statement suggesting anything faster than 9 is unnecessary. It is surely more versatile than a 9.

All I said was that in a FACTORY 700 barrel twisted 9, the 105 A-Max is a great option, as chances are it will stabilize.

I wouldn't suggest ordering a 9 over an 8, if one was able to specify.

Thanks Jordan. Those are Real World type answers we all appreciate and hope for when posting.

What tweaks if you don't mind? Bedding or more? I honestly was considering having the barrel fluted-which I am sure may seem dumb given its just a factory tube-but those 26" Varmint contour tubes are just too clunky to pack IMHO. Plus the Tupperware stock doesn't do much to counter balance. Very positive results though. I'd certainly spent more on custom barrels for groups twice that size at that distance. I'll give it a try for $525

Hurt feelers ya know.

Over the counter 700's won't stabilize the "best" of the 6mm bullets (Sierra 107's, Berger 115's, DTAC 115's), and that seems to ignite some.

Another thing that I find amusing, is all this nonsense in a Hunting Rifle forum. Hey, if haulin' charts, and setting up wind socks between you, and your intended quarry works - have it. Guess velocity for expansion, and penetration doesn't factor in - nor the intended use of the bullets in question. (that'd be varmint/target, for those wondering).

Well heck, PN will make a 6mm tube in 5" twist for you if you ask nicely and hand over your $$$. If you give them another handful of $$$, they may even make you a 3" twist barrel

When I burn out this barrel I'll likely go 8" twist in .264", but I may do another .243 in an 8" twist. I surely won't order a 7" twist, though.

The barrel was reamed to .243AI and re-crowned. Stock was replaced with an A5, which was bedded, and Atlas BM was added. A Timney replaced the factory trigger. There are other cosmetic tweaks, but those are the performance upgrades.

I wish I would have had the barrel fluted when I had it re-chambered and crowned, since this is a rifle that I use for hunting when I expect LR shots, and it may get shot from offhand or sitting. It's not a big deal for a LR rifle that weighs 13lbs all up, but it's a little too muzzle heavy for my style of shooting from hunting positions. It's great for prone and supported positions, though, and the extra barrel weight calms the muzzle jump a bit.

As you can see on the plate at 1010 yards, the group may actually be slightly larger than 0.45MOA, probably closer to 0.5MOA, since I couldn't quite place the shot marker on the center of the bottom shot, which was just off the screen. The two shots at the top of the white square are from other rifles. There was a pretty stiff switching wind, with a 12mph average full value, and you can see the horizontal stringing on the 1762 plate because of that. For a factory 700 barrel, I'm very impressed with what it'll do with the 105AM and HPBT. I'd like to try the 105 Berger Hybrid with its 0.547 G1 BC, and see if the barrel will stabilize it.

You guys seem to be confused. The questions was NOT "what is the ideal twist in 6mm to shoot the best LR bullets?". It was about the heaviest bullet you can shoot in a FACTORY 9.125" twist. There have been plenty of reports of guys shooting the 105AM in factory 700 barrels, and Tanner and I are just adding that our experience mirrors that of others.

"Haulin' charts"- LOL. I just stick mine in a pocket, or under the shell holder on the stock, but if you'd rather break out your pack frame to get the job done, give 'er Tell me- at what range does a 105AM started at 3222fps no longer have enough velocity for expansion? And I assume you have personal experience with how these bullets penetrate on game? Because some of us have seen first-hand what they'll do on game. So it's probably best to leave the opining to those who have witnessed it. As to the intended use of the bullet, Hornady always recommended the AM for use on small to medium game until just recently. I wonder why they would do that?

You do as you like.

I'll keep loading hunting bullets, in rifles designed for 'em, and the ballistically superior 6mm bullets in rifles designed for those (with a full understanding, they are varmint/target bullets).



Since you didn't follow your own preaching in a thread 'bout .25-06's - well, enjoy the crow.

LOL. Well I couldn't care less, but obviously you're pretty butt-hurt over that .25-06 thread. I'm happy to talk about ideal twist rates in 6mm tubes, heavy bullets in factory barrels, or why the 6mm's currently have a marked advantage over the .257's at long range, etc. I come on the 'campfire because I like to read and discuss almost every vein of guns and hunting.

You jumped to an incorrect conclusion. *shrugs*

Fair enough. Well enjoy your day.

And you, as well.

Why not? Ask guys like Scenarshooter about their 6mm's in 7.5 twist. I have a buddy with a 243 Middlestead in 7.5 twist too and loves it. I'll probably get a 7.5 twist, only because PN doen't make a 7 twist 4 groove.

Because I still want my bullets to hang together and reach the target When I'm kicking the bullets out of the muzzle at ~3250fps, that would become an issue with a 7" twist.

The fastest I'd go is probably 7.5, and only if I was going to run 115gr bullets in the tube. But honestly I'd just go 8" in a 6mm and run the 105 Berger Hybrid with a BC that trumps the 115 VLD.