To be used for wolves and coyotes.

Which cartridge and why?

I'm be more concerned with twist. Assuming you are running factory you can at least get 1-9" in several makes of the 223, which would seal that deal for me.

I'm with Scott! twist matters more....

Me three.

Sweet......me too.....!
Scott has told me I don't have enough twist...


Ingwe

Not to be disrespectful, but I'd say you're already sufficiently twisted.

" Having enough twist" and "being twisted" are two totally different things......

Ingwe

That's putting a new twist on things, if you ask me...

and the answer, by the way, is 22-250. Just because...

Nope. I'm gonna hafta say a compromise is in order...

provided it is twisted properly...

The .223AI!!!!!

Ingwe

AI equals cheating...! The man gave you two choices. Now pick one!

Dontcha just hate it when someone does that on a thread???

" Which is better?? .270 or .30-06??"

And some idiot answers " .280"...




Ingwe

What's wrong with the .280?

Its not a 7x57......



Ingwe

.223. Great varmint cartridge. Cheap ammo. Heavy bullets will doom a deer where they are legal.

That's what makes it right.................

....or " I can't decide between the Swaro Z6 and S&B xxx............." You should be using a 4X Leupold........."

.223. Brass is easier to come get, the muzzle jump is less and the slight difference in velocity is moot. I am a 22-250 fan, but the only way I will choose it over .223 is to accommodate a standard bolt face.

If'n I had to pick tween the two I'd go with the '250 but in a heart beat as a dedicated canis lupis and canis latrans rig slamo dunk I'd go 243 or 25/06 over either of those two.

Dober

Thanks for the serious replies!

Really looking for the pros and cons of each for the intended application.

Really NOT interested in a silly '06 vs 270 or 7-08 vs 308 wizzing match.

Where do you place the importance of the 22-250's speed increase?

Thanks.

It's fine, long's you can handle the added recoil.

It seems to me that while either is fine for the "come around the bend in the river and surprise a bunch of belly-heavy wolves", for many circumstances the AR compatible 223 would be (is) the better choice. ARs are rocking wolf rifles in many rural parts of the state.

I already said I'd be more concerned about twist, that answers your latest question.

The 223 is a medium range rifle, with a mild report, excellent accuracy, and can kill Coyotes. I would not want to shoot a Wolf with it, regardless of bullet weight. Prairie Dogs, Ground Hogs, and similar sized animals are right up a 223 alley. I only shoot 50/52 gn bullets, or lighter, in my two 223's with 1-12" twist barrels.

The 22-250 is a higher velocity rifle than the 223, and is viable at least 100 to 150 yards further than the 223. I had 22-250's since the late 1950's as I thought high velocity was KING.. . I made one shot on a Ground Hog at 465 yards, my longest kill with the 22-250. I would not want to shoot a Wolf with the 22-250 either. Wolves are huge, nasty critters deserving a big game rifle to kill them.
One of the huge down sides to the 22-250 is it's muzzle blast/noise. So, I would look at the area I was hunting, and if noise would be an issue, I'd grab the 223 and leave the 22-250 at home. My current 22-250 has a 1-14" twist, so I only shoot 55 gn bullets in it. The 22-250 tuned right can shoot very good groups. The rifle weight of the 22-250 is more than the two 223's I have, and that is a consideration when I go Coyote hunting.

yeah, when i first saw the outline of a wolf track in a book i was reading and saw how much bigger it was than my hand, i was pretty impressed.

those things are big and toothy, and i think i would rather have a .25-06 or .270 or so, in my hands should i run across a wolf.

A friend from Ohio went up to Canada a year and a half ago Wolf Hunting. He carried a 270 and a 30-06 along with him. He ended up shooting a Wolf with the '06. Wolves are HUGE animals, and powerful. Their front legs and paws are much larger than I ever thought they'd be.
I had an opportunity to observe a live Wolf up close, and walked away totally impressed at how powerful they are. They're like Coyotes on steroids; Coyotes+PP.

they are very similar... one goes faster... in like twisted rifles i'd go 223 cause it's cheap and fun to shoot... i'd much rather have a 1-9" factory twisted 223 than a 1-14" 22-250. You can load up some 62TSX's in the 223 and be good to go. if bullet cost is an issue the 64 PP from Winchester is another fantastic bullet for the 223.

cheaper .223 Ammo and longer barrel life.. but as above for those I would rather use a .243

the 223 rem sure seems cheap to shoot to me.

Can't understand why some of the guys from Alaska are taking big blacks bears with a 223, yet it's not big enough for wuffs...

I was in the same boat this year, deciding between a coyote gun in .223 or 22-250....

223 is cheaper to shoot.
22-250 has a better long-range trajectory, flatter shooting
223 is easier on the barrel life, but I don't plan on putting 500 rounds a day through either gun, more like 100 rounds a year.

...I went with the 22-250.

the 223 vs 22-250 is an age-old argument that there's tons of debates on. If you enter in "223 vs 22-250" in google, you'll have plenty reading.

For coyotes I have always used a 17 Rem, 223, 22-250 or 243...unless I was hunting something larger when Wiley and I crossed paths. For wolf I always used a minimum of a 270, but a 243 would have been fine with hunting bullets, provided I had one. Wolves are big, nasty critters that like to bite back.

The .223 is cheaper to shoot but the 22-250 gives you more reach. This is with standard twist rifles. I have no experience with the exotic twists that is all the rage nowadays. If you want to shoot 90gr bullets, why not get a .243.

Why would someone champion the .223 as a deer rifle and be afraid to shoot a 100# wolf with one? Or a 150# wolf? Or however big you think they get?

Long range shots are not common with wolves where I live. They are an incredible animal, but are not bullet proof. They are more shy than aggresive, so set up and wind direction is more important than cartridge selection. They die quickly when shot properly, so either of your choices will work. I would go with the one that you can shoot more to be familiar with the rifle. They are both .223 which I am not familiar with, but I would choose the 223 Rem with heavy bullets for penetration. I shot a 150 pound timber wolf with a 7 TC/U and it fell where hit. That is just a 223 necked up to 7mm.

Being a dog, the wolf has huge blood reserves in the spleen, liver,and kidneys, which goes into circulation when shock occurs. A badly placed hit will see you loose the wolf. Hence my admonition to practice so you can hit them well the first time.

Randy

Here in BC a lot of guys manage to shoot wolves with 223s, and guess what the wolves tip over.

not saying you CAN'T kill them with a .223. the difference is that deer quietly go off to die, and if one needs a followup i will do so. they don't have 6 friends with them that will rip your face off if you follow a wounded one into dark woods.

sure you CAN kill just about anything with a .223 and with the ability to get a good shot i wouldn't feel undergunned on Bambi. just the IF that makes me question it.

and being that i have never shot a wolf with ANY rifle, my opinion is worth what you paid for it.

a simple answer to your question is the 22-250 is the better Coyote or large animal killer balistically...

I prefer the .223 as brass is cheaper and it has gotten my by on larger animals up to and including Mule Deer.

Both require precise bullet placement but thats pretty easy with one of these accurate calibers..Just use the right bullet..Over the years I have settled on the 60 gr. Hornady HP or SP to my own amazement it has produced better kills than any other 22 caliber bullet with perfect mushrooms on recovered bullets but mostly I have gotten a nickle to quarter size exit hole on deer and coyotes and in the .222, 223, and 22-250..Guess I need to get me a 220 swift, never have used that one much and never on big game like deer, but know folks that do. I even know one old rancher that shoots his elk every year with a 220 swift and factory ammo, usually out his kitchen door.

Why not a fast twist 22-250 AI? You could load it down to be a .223 or get a heavy bullet moving along at decent speed.

i don't know. the two rifles i use 99% of the time are my 6.5x55 mauser i built, and a .22-250 vanguard. i think i'd be a little more comfortable hunting wolves with the swede but i know with a barnes bullet i wouldn't be too worried about the .22-250 doing the job. i'd just be pretty wary of using the varmint-type bullets.

Chose a .22-250 for my first .22 centerfire purchase. Would love to have a .223 as a companion.

The advantages of one over the other often depend more on factors other than the actual velocity difference, although velocity is why I went with the .22-250.

To mention a couple:

1. Ammo cost for non-reloaders. Powder and brass costs for reloaders.

2. Rifle configuration (My .22-250 has a 26" heavy barrel with a 12- or 14- twist. I'd want a .223 in a lighter, shorter barrel with a faster twist.)

You need a .224 PitBull, which is a .45-90-120 Sharps necked down to .224, or a 22 [bleep] which is the 6mm Lee Navy necked to .223 diameter.

This has been thoroughly researched and hashed out here at the fire and the only known things that will kill wolves are Pit Bulls or [bleep].

Let's seeeeeeee....... A 4'10" female jogger was killed by wolves last year and is the first case anyone can remember of a wolf attacking humans. Wolves do not hang around to get shot at and cut a wide swath around people in general... And you are worried about getting your face torn off by an animal you have never dealt with??????????

223 is more than adequate and cedes just a touch to the 22-250 in range, but as Steelhead says "twist trumps all"...

I decided to try out the newer Savage 10 Max1 in 22-250. It is like the Predator Hunter model, but the Max1 includes a 24" heavy barrel, fluted for weight savings and the Accustock along with Accutrigger.

8.5 pounds:

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10PREDATORHUNTERMAX1

If you're asking the question to determine weather or not you should buy one of those .22-250 Rugers from Art, I'd say go for it. The price is right, and being that you don't reload, you'll never notice anything "wrong" with the factory twist in the .22-250.

If you are asking the question because you want to build a rifle from scratch, then I'd follow the advice of the "twist matters" camp. Twist is paramount to everything in a .22 centerfire. My .223AI and .22-250AI are both 1-8" twist, and I can shoot anything I damn-well please out of them. When you start to reload, you'll appreciate that.

Between the .22-250 and .223, the little one is more fun & cheaper to shoot. The .223 does a lot with a little bit of powder. Brass for the .223 is cheaper and easier to find on the "once-fired" market. The speed increase in the .22-250 is pretty far down the list of "must haves" for me. If you don't already have a .223, you need one.....unless you stumble across a really good deal on a .22-250.

Well stated. I will add, on a personal note, that I have never owned a .223 that I was really dissapointed in. I can't say that for several 22-250's.

I have two .223s one 7 twist one 8twist! I shoot burgers out of both 80gr VLDS for the 8twist. And 90gr Vlds in my 7twist!Range isnt a Prob @ all! 600yards all day with the 80s, and ive shot the 90s to a G... So yeah Twist=bullet weight=BC= Longrange!

Dan - I was waiting for you to tell me to just get one of each and be done with it!

I got Chris giving me the nudge to go 223. Art's got the 22-250, and you make a great big circle!

Making room for the reload bench for this fall/winter. So that is a consideration. Not convinced I can do either right now, what with an extry horse and what we had to pay for hay this year. I'm thinking and planning and there are other irons getting close to the flames.


All-
In regard to woofs, I ain't ascared. I've seen a couple. Even called one to about 20 yards. When I tired of toying with it, I stood up and it took off. Almost every one will unless it has a CNS virus. It's just a dog. Some are big dogs, but still just a dog.

Thanks for all the replies.

I paid $3 a 80# bale for 2nd cutting alfalfa two days ago...is that a good deal? I bought 20 bales for $60, loaded in my truck.

I know...you hate me.

I had to think about that for a microsecond!

Don't hate you. People tell me Oh, horses are expensive in Alaska.

I reply that so are snowsleds, 4wheelers, boats, rtc.
Ya just gotta make choices!

Actually horses are cheaper than some other habits/toys/modes of transportation, but as a former horse owner, I felt it was my duty to razz you a little.

How much does alfalfa go for there now? Last I heard was 14 years ago and it was $400/ton then, around Fairbanks.

The $3 I quoted you is a low figure for here (NE Washington---Chewelah). These were a part of a pile that had fallen over and he discounted them so as to not have to handle them any more than necessary. Actually he charges $5/bale and even that's pretty cheap. I was paying $6/bale five years ago around Yakima. Feed stores charge up to $20/bale later in the winter here.

Alfalfa would be pretty pricey as it won't grow here and would have to be imported. I feed grass hay. What grows here is brome, timothy, or a mix.

I hate you too....does that count?

I gave the thread a minor derail with my .223AI comments, and tune back in, only to find you guys talking about hay...


I feel like such an amateur....


Ingwe

I agree with ya...this thread is gonna turn to horsecrap...

Ingwe

You don't hate me...jealousy is distinctly different from that.

Yeah, yeah...I know...more horsecrap!

Yep, both is always the best answer!

My first choice is the .223, but a smokin' good deal on a .22-250 wouldn't scare me at all.

iron,
I'd be a 250 proponent because of the size of the two animals you mention. However, the guide I know in AK uses a Ruger boat paddle .223. Kills around 25 wolves every year. The Ruger is slung on a snow machine that gets driven many hundreds of miles.
He uses a FMJ to minimize pelt damage. He has taken some wolves out to 300 yds.. FWIW

And, I'd imagine more than a few at about 3 feet...

Dober

I have had several 22-250s, but always found that if I needed more, the logical step up would be 243 or larger.

Lou

30-06 vs 308.... same hole, less recoil, cheaper to shoot. practice out to too far and take 2 steps back...

223 wins.....

woofer