In 300 WSM which would you pick and why. I really wanted to buy a kimber this year(and still might thinking 84 montana .308 win) but my ability to shoot a gun this light in the field has me thinking that maybe I should add a pound or two and have a gun that I can hold steady under the physical stress of a hunt. My Browning xbolt is light enough that I think I blew the first shot on a doe this year (175 yards) and after I settled down I shot her through the heart. I'm wandering how much more this problem would be compounded by an even lighter gun yet. I guess I can always load the 300 down a bit for whitetails but still have a gun scope combo with the mentioned guns that is fairly light. Any feeding issues with these guns? (I've read about the 4th round problem with the sako)
Having owned all three, I think the EW is the best bang for the buck.
Win. Extreme Weather!!!! Can't comment on a Sako because I'm not familiar with them offhand but if they come with a detachable magazine, I'd for sure say "NO". IMHO, a detachable is just one more thing to get lost or malfunction.
I also say a definite "NO"!! to the POS (aka, known as Kimber in most circles). I had one in .270 WSM and ended up spending as much on trying to get it to shoot as I did on the rifle itself - yeah, my bad.
That POS was consistantly inconsistant in it's groupings. Won't go into it here, search my comments on the board her & on accuratereloading.com.
Last Oct., I picked up a new Win. Extreme Weather just about the time it was getting too cold to do much shooting. I was able to try out 3 different powders and accuracy appeared to be good with all 3. I do admit that I had a pressure pad put under the forearm and that appears to have helped. I really think this one is a winner and I've always liked the Win. platform. Probably not quite as light as the POS but I can certainly live with that if I can count on consistantly good accuracy. Just my humble opinion tho. Good luck with whatever you do.
Bear in Fairbanks
I also say a definite "NO"!! to the POS (aka, known as Kimber in most circles). I had one in .270 WSM and ended up spending as much on trying to get it to shoot as I did on the rifle itself - yeah, my bad.
That POS was consistantly inconsistant in it's groupings. Won't go into it here, search my comments on the board her & on accuratereloading.com.
Last Oct., I picked up a new Win. Extreme Weather just about the time it was getting too cold to do much shooting. I was able to try out 3 different powders and accuracy appeared to be good with all 3. I do admit that I had a pressure pad put under the forearm and that appears to have helped. I really think this one is a winner and I've always liked the Win. platform. Probably not quite as light as the POS but I can certainly live with that if I can count on consistantly good accuracy. Just my humble opinion tho. Good luck with whatever you do.
Bear in Fairbanks
Kimber Montana. With scope, talley lightweights, a sling and a mag full of ammo you will be around 8 lbs. That's not "too" light to handle the recoil.
Some have had bad experiences with Kimbers. Others have had great experiences and continue to buy them.
You're not going to find a better stock in the rifles you're looking at.
JMHO.
Some have had bad experiences with Kimbers. Others have had great experiences and continue to buy them.
You're not going to find a better stock in the rifles you're looking at.
JMHO.
I would go with the Sako. I have a Sako 75 (not a finnlight) in 270 wsm. It feeds and functions fine. I own several Sako's and I have yet to see one shoot very well.
Dink
Dink
Originally Posted by Bear_in_Fairbanks
Win. Extreme Weather!!!! Can't comment on a Sako because I'm not familiar with them offhand but if they come with a detachable magazine, I'd for sure say "NO". IMHO, a detachable is just one more thing to get lost or malfunction.
I also say a definite "NO"!! to the POS (aka, known as Kimber in most circles). I had one in .270 WSM and ended up spending as much on trying to get it to shoot as I did on the rifle itself - yeah, my bad.
That POS was consistantly inconsistant in it's groupings. Won't go into it here, search my comments on the board her & on accuratereloading.com.
Last Oct., I picked up a new Win. Extreme Weather just about the time it was getting too cold to do much shooting. I was able to try out 3 different powders and accuracy appeared to be good with all 3. I do admit that I had a pressure pad put under the forearm and that appears to have helped. I really think this one is a winner and I've always liked the Win. platform. Probably not quite as light as the POS but I can certainly live with that if I can count on consistantly good accuracy. Just my humble opinion tho. Good luck with whatever you do.
Bear in Fairbanks
I also say a definite "NO"!! to the POS (aka, known as Kimber in most circles). I had one in .270 WSM and ended up spending as much on trying to get it to shoot as I did on the rifle itself - yeah, my bad.
That POS was consistantly inconsistant in it's groupings. Won't go into it here, search my comments on the board her & on accuratereloading.com.
Last Oct., I picked up a new Win. Extreme Weather just about the time it was getting too cold to do much shooting. I was able to try out 3 different powders and accuracy appeared to be good with all 3. I do admit that I had a pressure pad put under the forearm and that appears to have helped. I really think this one is a winner and I've always liked the Win. platform. Probably not quite as light as the POS but I can certainly live with that if I can count on consistantly good accuracy. Just my humble opinion tho. Good luck with whatever you do.
Bear in Fairbanks
So your saying the feeding of the 300 WSM in the model 70 has been great? I was looking at one over the lunch hour and it was pretty smooth but I'm not sure how they feed. The Xbolt that I have is machined pretty tight and has a tendency to short stroke leaving the shell in the mag if you don't throw it like you mean it. As I've gotten older I've started shooting a little slower and last year my gun went click when it should have gone boom because I cycle it quietly. After another year of shooting it has gotten better but it still is in the back of my mind.
Bigbuck_12:
To try & clarify, both the Kimber and the Extreme Weather have never given me any feeding problems. When I first got the Kimber, the forearm was touching the barrel. I contacted Kimber & sent it back to them. Got it back literally in about 10 days or so. Must admit, kudos to them on that. Things just went downhill from there however.
The Kimber was sent to the Lower-48 twice more for work, first time to Hill Country. It came back with a target with what looked like a very good group and the factory ammo used was listed. Went out & bought the EXACT same ammo (I seldom use factory ammo) and groups were still nowhere near what I expected. Not knocking Hill Country here, just what happened with me.
BTW, I tried some Federal Vital-shok, 150 factory ammo in the Ext. Weather and found that less than desirable regarding accuracy and velocity. It seems to just like my handloads much better. Thus my opinion that a .270 WSM is really a handloading proposition.
Bear in Fairbanks
To try & clarify, both the Kimber and the Extreme Weather have never given me any feeding problems. When I first got the Kimber, the forearm was touching the barrel. I contacted Kimber & sent it back to them. Got it back literally in about 10 days or so. Must admit, kudos to them on that. Things just went downhill from there however.
The Kimber was sent to the Lower-48 twice more for work, first time to Hill Country. It came back with a target with what looked like a very good group and the factory ammo used was listed. Went out & bought the EXACT same ammo (I seldom use factory ammo) and groups were still nowhere near what I expected. Not knocking Hill Country here, just what happened with me.
BTW, I tried some Federal Vital-shok, 150 factory ammo in the Ext. Weather and found that less than desirable regarding accuracy and velocity. It seems to just like my handloads much better. Thus my opinion that a .270 WSM is really a handloading proposition.
Bear in Fairbanks
Bigbuck 12,
Sako Finnlite = Quality, accuracy, light weight, new style ST stock, very easy trigger to adjust, TAKE OUT OF BOX, ADJUST TRIGGER PULL, ATTACH SCOPE, ZERO, AND GO HUNTING. IMHO hard to beat.
Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather = MADE IN THE USA, Much improved over the New Haven guns, very slick action, claw extractor, accuracy, cost much less than Sako, new MOA trigger?? YOU WILL HAVE TO WORK ON IT TO GET A DECENT TRIGGER WEIGHT OF PULL, UNLESS YOU LIKE A HEAVY TRIGGER. You will need to get a lighter trigger spring, adjust trigger spring screw almost all the way out. I stoned the sear as well, and now I have a 2 1/2 to 3 lb pull with no creep or over travel.
Both rifles have more good points than bad ones. I have a Model 75 Sako in .308 Win, and Model 70 EW in .300WSM. Not to crazy about model 70's B&C stock. Winchester will be almost a pound heavier. You really can't go wrong with either.
Kimber = Sexy, light, slim and trim. Has charmed many a shooter. I will just vote "Present" on this one.
G2
Sako Finnlite = Quality, accuracy, light weight, new style ST stock, very easy trigger to adjust, TAKE OUT OF BOX, ADJUST TRIGGER PULL, ATTACH SCOPE, ZERO, AND GO HUNTING. IMHO hard to beat.
Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather = MADE IN THE USA, Much improved over the New Haven guns, very slick action, claw extractor, accuracy, cost much less than Sako, new MOA trigger?? YOU WILL HAVE TO WORK ON IT TO GET A DECENT TRIGGER WEIGHT OF PULL, UNLESS YOU LIKE A HEAVY TRIGGER. You will need to get a lighter trigger spring, adjust trigger spring screw almost all the way out. I stoned the sear as well, and now I have a 2 1/2 to 3 lb pull with no creep or over travel.
Both rifles have more good points than bad ones. I have a Model 75 Sako in .308 Win, and Model 70 EW in .300WSM. Not to crazy about model 70's B&C stock. Winchester will be almost a pound heavier. You really can't go wrong with either.
Kimber = Sexy, light, slim and trim. Has charmed many a shooter. I will just vote "Present" on this one.
G2
I love Sako's and Winchester's. If I had to choose one, it would be a Sako......no question.
Originally Posted by Bigbuck_12
Any feeding issues with these guns? (I've read about the 4th round problem with the sako)
My Sako 85(300WSM) needed a stiffer mag spring, it wouldn't push a full mag up everytime.
The 85 is a nice gun to shoot but I carry my A7 way more.
It has a single stack mag so it's alot slimmer, plus it feeds a little smoother, only 3 down but that's enough. 7lb 6oz ready to rip.
A Montana or new M70 would be nice also.
M70, it will be feed cartridges like greasy sausages and be accurate to boot.
I've haven't had any of the new FN M-70's yet (haven't gotten over the trigger change yet) but I had a couple M-70's in 300 WSM and currently have a Sako Finnlite M-75 in 300 WSM and a Kimber 8400 in 300 WSM.
In my humble opinion you should pick whichever one fits you best.
I like the stock on my Kimber Montana's better the older Sako Finnlite stocks or the Winchesters I had.
The Sako has a longer throat and shoots a tad slower than the other 2 but will pretty consistantly put 3 180gr Failsafes into less than 1" at 200yds.
My Kimber's first 3 shot group OTB was in 3/8" or so and that's the best group I've ever shot with it
. I should work with it more but have been playing with other stuff, it still shoots just fine - I like it's twin in 270 WSM a little better.
The Sako has much the best trigger of the 3, with the older winchesters being 2nd, Kimbers 3rd. The M-70 and 8400's are good triggers but the Sako trigger is VERY good.
The M-85 Sako's removeable magazine requires an extra action to remove it - you have to push it up while pulling the lever. I've never heard of anyone loosing a Sako Mag even with the older easier to drop M-75's. If you leave the magazine with the rifle I think the loosing the magazine is pretty much a non-issue unless you do something particularly stupid.
Kimber's and M-70's can use Talley Ultralight rings which means they have better scope mounting options than the Sako. I like the Optilocks but several others really don't. There are other mounting options for Sako's including non-lightweight Talleys but you have to give the versatility edge to the Kimbers and M-70's concerning Scope rings.
All of them should shoot more than accurately enough in my mind the only advantage for any of them is that the Sako is guaranteed to.
So in the end back to the first. Buy the one that fits you best, you'll have a good rifle with any of them.......................DJ
In my humble opinion you should pick whichever one fits you best.
I like the stock on my Kimber Montana's better the older Sako Finnlite stocks or the Winchesters I had.
The Sako has a longer throat and shoots a tad slower than the other 2 but will pretty consistantly put 3 180gr Failsafes into less than 1" at 200yds.
My Kimber's first 3 shot group OTB was in 3/8" or so and that's the best group I've ever shot with it
. I should work with it more but have been playing with other stuff, it still shoots just fine - I like it's twin in 270 WSM a little better.The Sako has much the best trigger of the 3, with the older winchesters being 2nd, Kimbers 3rd. The M-70 and 8400's are good triggers but the Sako trigger is VERY good.
The M-85 Sako's removeable magazine requires an extra action to remove it - you have to push it up while pulling the lever. I've never heard of anyone loosing a Sako Mag even with the older easier to drop M-75's. If you leave the magazine with the rifle I think the loosing the magazine is pretty much a non-issue unless you do something particularly stupid.
Kimber's and M-70's can use Talley Ultralight rings which means they have better scope mounting options than the Sako. I like the Optilocks but several others really don't. There are other mounting options for Sako's including non-lightweight Talleys but you have to give the versatility edge to the Kimbers and M-70's concerning Scope rings.
All of them should shoot more than accurately enough in my mind the only advantage for any of them is that the Sako is guaranteed to.
So in the end back to the first. Buy the one that fits you best, you'll have a good rifle with any of them.......................DJ
ew would be my choice.
kimber is great if you get a good one, sako is fine as long as you like high priced rifles that come with a guarentee that is not worth the paper that it is printed on, winchester is a very proven design being built by a new company.....all are about the same risk. I would go winchester for my money.
All three brands are high quality rifles and will deliver a lifetime of service. Having said that, I am partial to Kimber for the track record I have had with them gives me confidence in the field. I wish the Winchester Extreme was lighter. Their 30-06 is listed at 7# 4oz. while the present 8400 Kimber Montana is 6# 9oz.. That is an 11 ounce difference - significant in my book. That is going to be increased when the new 84L hits the market - maybe 6-8 ounces lighter yet!
Sako makes great rifles but I don't like detachable magazines and twin lever safeties.
In any case you can't go wrong with any on the three listed.
Sako makes great rifles but I don't like detachable magazines and twin lever safeties.
In any case you can't go wrong with any on the three listed.
All the rifles you mentioned are fine firearms and you might get a dog in any one of them, I've read a lot of Kimber horror stories so I'd probably shy away from them for this reason alone, I like the new Mod 70 but if your talking the Extreme Weather version I hate the clubby stock that Bell and Carlson provides Winchester for this model and this is a matter of taste, you may love it. The only fault I have with the Sako Mod 85 is it's cheesy clamp-on type scope mounting system, if you can live with this I think the Mod 85 would be the best rifle in the bunch that you are considering, though the Winchester in a wood stocked model would also be excellent. At the end of the day it's your money, go with the rifle you like the feel and look of best, these are all fine rifles....If you aren't set in stone on one of these three models give a Sako A7 a good hard look......Good luck...........................Hillbilly.
I recently purchased a Model 70 EW in .300wsm. Very nice gun. I hand loaded with Norma brass and 165 grn NAB and SGK bullets. Gun shoots very nice. The trigger on mine is very nice and I have had zero feeding problems. I own 6 Bell & Carlson Medalist stocks and like the fit and feel.This is my first Model 70 and I am impressed.I also own a Sako A7 and it is a fine rifle.....the Sako 85 finlight should be a great gun. I personally have never owned a Kimber,so I honestly don't know about the accuracy. I can say that I think the quality control is superior on the Model 70 and Sako.......this is based on looking at the fit and finish of many Kimber's in various gun shops.In fairness I think they are probably capable of making a great gun, just need to tighten up QC process. Good luck with what ever you choose.
you amy want to look at the ring options for the finnlight before you commit. the optilocks are very heavy and very very expensive. if you do get one, Ihave the screws you will need to replace the junk stock sako screws.
I have two Sako Finnlights (308 and 6.5xx55) and they are great guns. Accurate out of the box with great adjustable triggers. Both Talley and Conetrol make good quality bases/rings for them. I don't have any experience with the others but it's always best if you can examine and shoulder them in person to see what fits you best.
What OAL is possible for loaded cartridges in the Winchester WSM rifles?
I have a Sako 85 Finnlite in 30-06. It shoots nearly everything well that I have loaded for it. Overall a great rifle.
Don't have an EW but do have an Ultra Shadow in .270 WSM. Very contrary rifle to find an accurate load for. I did eventually but I am always a little suspicious of it. Have a suspicion it needs to have the firing pin hole bushed.
Never owned a Kimber. Have been thinking about it but its reputation has held me back. If I do get one it will be a toss up between a .257 Roberts or a .270 Win. with a 24" barrel.
Jim
Don't have an EW but do have an Ultra Shadow in .270 WSM. Very contrary rifle to find an accurate load for. I did eventually but I am always a little suspicious of it. Have a suspicion it needs to have the firing pin hole bushed.
Never owned a Kimber. Have been thinking about it but its reputation has held me back. If I do get one it will be a toss up between a .257 Roberts or a .270 Win. with a 24" barrel.
Jim
I can only comment in the Sako finnlight, have a Model 85 Finnlight in 300 WSM.
Great shooting gun, light and to me it has a nice balance, and feeds all 4 rounds smoothly. So far I have been loading 150 gr. GMX's that group under a .75 inch at 100 yards.
Great shooting gun, light and to me it has a nice balance, and feeds all 4 rounds smoothly. So far I have been loading 150 gr. GMX's that group under a .75 inch at 100 yards.
For the money I would definitely go with the Savage Weather Warrior 16FHSAK. Its got a hinged floor plate, composite stock, and SS barrel. Comes in at 7.4lbs (no scope). Has the adjustable Accu-Trigger and bedded in the Accu-Stock. MSRP is around $900 but you can find it (or a similar model on Buds for less than $600).
I don't like saying out of box accurate because every high volume manufacture may have at least 1 out of 1000 with issues. Every Savage I've owned or shot was sub-MOA with hand loads and at least MOA with factory loads.
I think you'll be happy
HaYen
I don't like saying out of box accurate because every high volume manufacture may have at least 1 out of 1000 with issues. Every Savage I've owned or shot was sub-MOA with hand loads and at least MOA with factory loads.
I think you'll be happy
HaYen