I want to get a rifle for my oldest (10) son. I was thinking about getting a 7mm-08, but can't decide on which rifle. I have looked at savage, remington and weatherby, too many choices.

He's a small guy so I wanted something that is easy for him to carry and later as he gets older I would just replace the youth stock.

Any personal experience?

What will he be shooting with it and what is legal where he will be shooting it?

I was going to give my opinion, until I realized that at age 10 I was just a little smaller than the average high school linebacker. My first rifles were a P-17 Enfield in .30-06 and a Lee-Enfield in .303 British.

How about a Remington Model 700� SPS� Buckmasters Edition "Young Bucks" Compact rifle ( www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-young-bucks.aspx ). It's dimensioned for youth, even has an adjustable length of pull kit to allow fitting as he grows. They are chambered for the .243 Winchester and will do about anything a 10 year old would be doing. Even comes with a scope. My best friend started off with a .243 Winchester and he still talks about that rifle - wishes he never sold it.

Remington 700 in .243 makes the most sense and will be the most accurate.

700 Yute in 243, when he gets older replace yute handle with a Ti take off.

Dober

In IL all he could use it for other than paper would be yote. I was thinking about taking him for deer across the river in Missouri.

I wanted something he could grow with and still be able to use for deer, antelope and maybe elk.

Cant go wrong with the Savage pkg combo in their youth mode. Great shooter and value for your money. Picked up 2 now for my nephews. A camo 243 2 years ago (he was 12 at the time) and a 7mm-08 in a Savage Edge XP camo. The youth models have a shorter LOP.

Here is a link to the Savage Axis.
Savage Youth Axis

Well that wont work as a direct link but still gets you there. Click on Centrefire, Axis Series, thenh AXIS XP YOUTH.

I prefer Sako m75 and Tikka T3 rifles myself but the Savage's shoot. My boys will get a choice from my Sako m75 or Tikka T3 LS rifles

Dittos, I started both of my boys with rem 700 sps ute's, one has a .243, the other a .223.



When they're full grown, the stock handles will be swapped out for ti's.

+1

I would go with the 243 and worry about elk later.

Whatever round you choose, just do what Dober said.

The best bang for your buck in a youth rifle is the Weatherby Vanguard or the Marlin XS7Y in 243 or 7-08. The Wby comes with 2 stocks, one short and one full size.

I started my daughter on a M70 featherweight compact. Several years on it is her only big game rifle. I load 120 TTsx at mid range velocity; minimal recoil and muzzle blast with dead deer. As she was tracking her last deer of the year (very short track) she came upon a good size chunk of lung in the blood trail. The rifle has proved to very accurate. GRF

My take is the first rifle you need to get is a .22 rimfire if you don't already have one. Have your son shoot the heck out of it with both iron sights and a scope....so he will know how to use both.

A 7mm-08 is a fine round, especially if you handload. I am pretty sure Remington makes reduced loads for it but know for a fact that both Federal fusion and Remington make them in .308 which is what I would get if I could find one in an appropriately sized rifle. A mild load in either one is plenty for deer and will kick about like a .243. When it is time to go for elk later, you are ready. If all you are ever going to hunt is deer, a .243 is just fine.

You are probably going to get a pretty good rifle with any of the big brands....I don't really have any opinions.

Keep in mind it's very easy to find an adult Model 700 stock when the time comes to change.

My 11 year old girl has an inexpensive Savage .243 that I borrow all the time. Very effective for deer and large hogs. My son started using a .243 about age 10 - Rem 700 ADL that we used yesterday on two large pigs and it has taken a truckload of does. At 15 he is deadly with my .270.
With regular loads a 7mm-08 was a little much for my small built kids in my opinion.

Jimmy C

I built a T/C Contender for my 8yr old grandson.
223 with a 2x7 Leupold scope. 60grn partition over H335.
Also have a Rem Mdl 7 youth in 243 with a Leupold 6x42 heavy duplex. 85grn Sierra HPBT over H4350.
Both rifles have a 12" length of pull and 3# triggers.

Coach

Or same in a 7/08........

I'd have to agree with dober too. 243 all the way so you don't scare him away at an early age. Your going to have a very small light rifle and the 7mm-08 will have a signifigant increase in recoil over the 243. You said he's kind of a small guy so that's what I'd go with.

I was all set to get my son a 7mm-08 for Christmas, and the folks here talked me into a .243 instead. In hindsight, I am glad I took their advice.

There is plenty of time remaining in his young life to move up to a more powerful rifle, if needed; but why take any of the fun out of it now by subjecting him to needless recoil?

We don't shoot tons of varmints like prairie dogs here in the east, and so the .243 will serve him well for an occassional groundhog or coyote while working well for deer. He can use it as his "light" rifle for the rest of his life and move onto something more powerful when he is older and more physically mature. Besides, it gives me a good excuse to buy him another rifle in a few years. Then his bases will be covered, at least until he is paying for them himself. He has a .22lr, a .243 and a ??? (to be determined).

If I lived out west, I might have been more inclined to go .22lr, .223 and 7mm-08 because prairie dogs and elk could change the equation.

I purchased a Marlin model x7 youth at Academy for $249. It's a really nice little rifle with a dimensions that are actually suited for a youth. The rifle also has a trim 22 inch barrel so muzzle blast won't be much of a factor. It's very light, but well balanced. You might check it out.

I like the idea of the Marlin X7 Youth in 7/08..even better if you can get it at the above mentioned price of $249.

I started my daughter with a 7x57 carbine. I used light loads of Blue Dot for training (recipes provided by Seafire). With 120 grain bullets it kicked like a 223. For Deer season I loaded 120 grain Ballistic Tips at 2900 fps. She didn't feel the recoil of the hotter load in the field and connected with a nice doe.

Dan

There are reduced loads for the 7mm-08 that don't recoil any more than the 243. The rem factory loads with managed recoil are also easy on youngsters. My 9 year old started this way, and had zero recoil issues.

My daughter started with a 700 moutain rifle in a youth stock with the 243 and that worked just as well. Load it with Barnes 85gr TSX and it is an outstanding little deer rifle.

I would pick either round in a 700 youth rifle and start shooting. Swap the stock out with a Ti handle later and that rifle will be with them forever.

i agree with those who said either a rem 700 or savage bolt in 243. adult stocks (for when the young man grows a little) are easily located. the 243 won't scare him off the bench and will kill any deer in the woods. elk can be addressed when he grows up some more.

I'd go 243AI just so he could be different...

Otherwise, 243 because you can't find a .257 Roberts in a factory youth rifle...

+ another 1.

Another vote for the 243, I went with the model 7 but would go with the a youth and TI stock if I did it over.

Thanks for all the replies.

He has been working with the .22 and has also shot my AR, he likes shooting it the best.

My first thought was a just getting him a 243, but then I thought about just hand loading some reduced loads for a 7mm-08 and later he could use normal loads.

I might just get both, he has a younger brother that is not old enough yet and the 243 could be passed down to him.

I was more concerned with rifle fit and being able to restock it later.

Take this idea for as much as you paid for it! I read an article some years back about youth rifles. One that that I took away from it and that makes perfect sense to me, is that a first rifle should be a 'first lifetime rifle'. Get them something that will work now and always. I think Big Stick espouses a similar philosophy, but words it a wee bit different...

PS- What will he being using in his home state?

In IL for deer it's slug gun or muzzleloader only. I have an old remington 1100 youth 20 ga he will use. It was actually my first gun.

Being from and currently living in the neighboring state to the east, I figured something like that may be what he'd be using in IL. One reason I asked is that if he is handling that well, the recoil of a 7-08 should be no problem.

A 243 Win with a good load is perfect. My older brother killed his first 2 elk with a 243, neither one requiring more than 1 shot. That being said, teach shot placement!!

I wasnt real small when i turned 12 and could finally hunt. But my grandmother had an old Rem 700 ADL 270 with the stock cut down on it that I borrowed for a few years. Both of my brothers were pretty big too and started out shooting full size rifles. Of all things, when my youngest brother was 10-12 years old, he was shooting my 300 WSM and popping rocks at 300-400 yards and he started hunting with a 7mm-300Weatherby.

My dad bought my little sister a Marlin XS7Y 7mm-08 last summer for her first year of hunting. She shot it pretty well and ended up shooting a 130" 5x5 whitetail at 190 yards. She was shooting 120gr Federal Fusions. Dad shot a 5 shot group that was around .5 inches! He even used the rifle the rest of the season after she killed her buck! Note: Blood on deer is from exit hole.

Remington 700 youth would be a good rifle also

Goose,

Also been looking at rifles for my boy...and he also is small for his age.

First inclination was the Rem. Youth, as I like the idea of putting a Ti stock on it for later...But We found one locally and it's heavy for him. Wouldn't matter for just bench shooting or setting on a stand, but it will be packed and the country here is rather steep.

Would like to find a marlin youth (XS7Y) as they run around 6.5 pounds and marlin will sell you an adult synthetic stock for around $70/shipped for later on.

I'm thinking down the lines of 308 for caliber, as I can load it down to 30-30 levels for practice/deer and Elk are definitely in the mix later on.

Jerry

The best advice I've received is get your kid a good rifle, with a good trigger, good glass, and plenty of ammo.



I think I spent more on that rifle and scope than I'd ever spent on a rifle for myself. But it was well worth it as he was quick to connect to connect the dots on how to place shots, and thats were the best gear is priceless. He doesn't like shooting paper, but after a few range sessions, 12 ga hulls on the 100yd berm are his preferred target.

I've seldom seen guns shoot their best with reduced loads. I do know a .243 w/ full patch loads does not bother the shoulder, and shoots sub moa. If you can't kill it with an 85 tsx, more gun ain't the answer.

FWIW, I'd disagree with that. If you try to buy what will work for most kids (not all) when they're 30, it'll likely be a compromise for what will work for them now.

Set him up for success NOW and worry about 15 years from now, in 15 years.

The point is don't start your kids with junk, start them with something that will last them a lifetime. Swapping out a shorty kids stock for a full length in the future is a no brainer, but if start them out with something that is cheap, because they're just a kid, you'll be upgrading later.

A good gun and good glass is never, ever a compromise. I didn't go first class on their 22rf, and that was a mistake. I didn't repeat that mistake with their centerfires.

i love my kids too much to give them crap equipment! i'll go without before they do!

they start with this



then play with this



and eventually get one of these

Great last pict Paul

thanks, he was pretty stoked!

How about a Marlin or a Winchester in 30.30? That is how I started and it is what my kids will start with too. They really do handle well and I haven't seen a kid yet that didn't like them. I have had kids prefer my 30.30 to .243s and the like in bolt guns.

I like the way you're thinking. I have a 700 MTR in 7-08. I got a cheapy stock off of eBay and had my 'smith cut it down to about a 12" LOP. I loaded up some 120 Sierras at about 2300 fps and my son proceeded to easily kill his first deer. When he gets older, I'll put the original stock back on and use full-powered loads. I just can't imagine a better setup if you're looking for a rifle for a youngster will be able to grow with. Good luck!

I suggested a Savage not because of the price, but for the accuracy out of the box and dependability. The new Marlins also have a great reputation so far.
I do agree to spend the money on a good scope. Leupold's have the eye relief I feel is very important for young people in bulky clothing.
I don't advise the short barrels (like my Model 7 had) because of the muzzle blast. And I do advise adding a quality pad with the stock adjusted for LOP. I did it on both kids rifles and the wife's 270.
Factory recoil managed loads are very light recoiling as advertised in the .270 and 7 mag, but we found the factory federal blue box .243's work well on game and are inexpensive for lots of shooting practice.

jimmy c

wish i woulda started with a 223 or 243. they woulda got alot more use. 223 in a ruger hawkeye with the stock cut down would rock in the hands of a kid.

Paul, can you provide me with details on this one? LOP? barrel length/contour, ect?

Thanks. I really need to order my son (ahem!) one of this mix. (A 20 month old can shoot a 14+ inch LOP, right? )

Remington youth .243 is what My daughter started with just recently bumped her to Remington 7/08 bedded in Ti stock as recommended above with 120gr TSX with very little recoil difference than her .243 she loves it.
Topped with Zeiss 3x9x40 both rifles have been great!

Not trying to start a pizzing match, but I am not too fond of the .243 in an area of a "once a life time" buck. To me it is akin to taking a youth pheasant hunting with his dandy little .410. Lots of .25-.26-.27-7mm short action rounds out there that I feel are more better for medium sized game.

That being said, my 10yr granddaughter started with a .243, but moved up to a .250 Sav the next year. Both are Sav Mod 99's.

I think that it is your responsability to buy his first rifle. Before you start thinking about changing stocks later on, you might consider that he may want a larger cartridge and a new rifle when he needs that longer stock. Good luck.

My 12 year old is fairly small. I have a M700 243 w/22 inch bbl, with a VX-II 2-7. I lightened, stiffened, and cut the tupperware stock down, put a flip-flop recoil pad on it. Weighs 7 lbs, 1 oz total.

I bought the rifle with my boy in mind 7 years ago , and killed some elk with it to put good elk karma in the rig.

He will be carrying the rifle this year with a cow tag in his pocket.

It's a Rem 7 223AI
PacNor LW contour 8twist finished at 21"
McMillan Rem MTN rifle stock at 12.5" LOP
Black/White/Purple cammo (wife wanted the colors and the boys picked cammo over swirl) we call it the Ravens Cammo cause they are Ravens fans. I call it barney cammo and it pizzes my wife off!
Talley's and a 2.5x Leupold.
I've changed scopes out for a 1.75-6 now that i have the oldest shooting past 200 at steel and balloons.

I'm a 14.5" lop and i can shoot it.

The one in the burgandy/white stock is a M7 Pacnor LW in 250AI at 22" with a LOP of 13.5. I built them both at the same time so that if we hunted somewhere that the 223 was illegal i could just swap barreled actions.

i love that picture!

There is a simply mantra, good bullets, properly placed, always work.

The .243 assists with proper placement, good bullets is up to whoever is procuring the fodder. I still can't fathom the thought of not having a first rifle that can/will be restocked as the child grows. A good .223 or .243 will be their most used rifle for life.

X1000

Good luck to him, I hope he gets one.

I hear ya there. My old man started me with a .30-06 when I was 13, and though I still have the rifle, I got a long way to go to catch up to where I would be had I started with something smaller.

mine was a birch stock savage 110 in 300win. that thing will rattle a 12year old pretty good. ok really rattle the crap out of a 12year old. havnt touched it since then either.

Have my 8 year old Son here with me looking at all this rite now. Remington BM Youth is a little much for the budget rite now at $500+, so looking at the Savage Axis. Read some reviews and like anywhere else, good and bad being said. As he gets older or the bank account gets better..CAN the Axis fit into another stock as he grows?
Whats yalls opinions on the Axis ? ( for those of you who HAVE experience with one)

If your 8 years old is reading this, let him know that 90% of what we argue about here will never actually matter. Killing deer isn't hard, just squeeeeeze the trigger on whatever happens to be handy and he'll be fine.

Well I been trying...but its hard to squeeze in alot in the 4 days I have them.
I think we're looking pretty hard at the AXIS in .243. If I cant change out the stock as he gets older..we'll just get another.

My son is a lefty and there were a real shortage of small rifles for him. So I went with a Win 94 in 30-30 (top ejector). It's small, light, not too bad in the recoil dept. Plus who doesn't love a lever...

This photo shows my eldest daughter with her first buck. In this case, a Dakota muley taken at approx 125 yards with 30-30 carbine. The buck weighed nearly 300 lbs live weight yet was no match for a well placed 150 grain corelokt bullet.

30-30 has always been a very good deer cartridge.

Sherwood

With today's over the counter availability of reduced recoil rounds, the fit of the gun (ie., lop, weight, handling, etc.) is more important in my opinion than caliber. The days of only having a .243 or a .243 are long gone. I have kids and have started them out, all with bolt actions in 7.62x39, 7-08, 308, .260 and 7x57. Remington's reduced recoil in the .260, 7-08 or .308 performs wonderfully. In fact, one of the girl took a nice 8 point at 240 yards last year. We shoot a lot and good glass and a good rest made me comfortable with allowing her to squeeze off on the broad side, grazing buck. We shoot tons of rounds of .22 in bolt action in advance of the season too. Always have them wear ear protection. Many kids are more afraid of the noise than the PUSH...i never use kick.

In short, my opinion is dont sweat the caliber. Find a gun you can afford and still have money for good glass. Get the reduced recoil ammo if you need it and practice, practice practice with rimfire. Good luck.

When my son was 10-12yrs old, I had picked up a sweet little Ithaca 20ga double to start him with on quail. We worked with some blue rocks and the 20ga rocked him a little too much. I took the shotgun to the gunshop and had it shortened and a pad installed. In a couple of years, he outgrew that shotgun and moved up to a pump gun.

He is pushing 50yrs old now. I kept the 20ga, but it has lived away from our home more than it has lived here over the past 40 years. Over ten kids have started with that shotgun over the years, including two sets of brothers. Sometimes it was gone for five years at a time. Life is good.

I would like to throw another idea into the cauldron; a M77/44. I used mine to introduce my son to hunting (can load up too 300gr), minimal recoil but quite a heavy sound, nice compact package; biggest problem is who gets to use it now!

Exactly. Kills me how some guys are blessed to have a child that likes guns and buys them junk cause there just a kid. I understand it when the parents use crappy tools they just don't know better or have the money.

Didn't finish... Anyway what is sad is when dad uses name brand rifle/scope and buys his child a turd. I don't have any children but you can bet as a uncle I'll sell off my extras if that's what it takes to make sure my nieces and nephew starts out with the same quality stuff I do.

Sorry to get so off track...grin. Like has been said 700 in 243 youth and handle can be swapped when need be.

Has anyone considered bumping up in caliber size, then using "managed recoil"loads, like in a 308. In 308, this will reduce the power factor down to about the power level of the 30-30.

Why

I have 3 sons and I started them all on a 30-06 (Rem BDL) when they were 10yrs old.

They still shoot a 30-06 today


T

Your sons are smarter than most....good job dad!

Started both of mine on a Rem Model Seven 243.

The lefty is now 14 and shoots a stainless LH700 .270 in a McSwirly stock I traded into for him.

The 12 year old is shooting a 700 Youth 308 with hand loaded reduced recoil rounds using 125gr NBT's that group sub .75moa out to 300yds. He was intimidated by the muzzle jump of the very light Model Seven 243 with standard loads and shoots the 700 .308 much more accurately.

Would have started them both on 700 .308's with reduced recoil loads if doing it over again. Even the factory Rem reduced fodder stayed 1moa or less out to 2oo yards.

I got my son an H&R super light in .243. Nicest little gun I ever saw. One problem is the thing shoots like crap. Yah a crap gun. OP has a small kid. Mine is real small. Just turned 14 and is 4'8 and 80 lbs. He needs a real small gun. He wants to keep it cause he got his first deer with it. Don't blame him neither, first deer with your gun is special. He was getting 4" groups at 50 yds last week. I let him use my Savage 12 in .223 and got 1" @ 50 yds. He lost all interest in his H&R. He is going to try the Rem. 700 youth in 243 tomorrow. He can handle it now. See what happens.

The 80 TTSX is a great equalizer in 243...

Faux Ti...243.



Found a Ti stock cut down to youth size on the 'Fire, and it is serving the yhoung ones well, also....

Cut a sporter contour down to 21" on this one, and it balances, handles and shoots really nice.



Usually start mine pretty little - (can't hold them back! Grin!!)



Have gone 223 in a little youth stocked M7 for the first one.

Little rifle has done great, and is a sentimental favorite, but like the 700 platform better - and have recently wrangled a reduced LOP Montana stock which will find its way to the Kimber 223, and then to the 243, and we'll see how they get along with those.

I'm thinking they may be the best of all, if they're not too light for them to shoot well...

DJ

250 Savage!

you're not going to have any guns left pretty soon! kids are going to make you use the M7 and high grade you... Smart kids! grins

I can see it coming.

Still, not letting them have the 7-08 Montana...I can't...I won't!! Grin...

I better work up a 62TSX load for that Model 7, just in case....

DJ

time for a secret stash rifle that they don't know about! i've a ton of rifles and the boys have laid claim to them all! I'm pretty proud of them! grins

oh, i don't think you'll get the 62 to stabilize in the M7.?

Well, I got a chance and looked at a few more rifles and I am just going to go with the rem 700 sps youth in 243. I am going to top it with a leupold vx ii 3-9 x 40 with the long range duplex.

I thought about it for a while and the 243 will do all that is needed for the next few years until he is older and at that time we can decide on something bigger. The 243 can also be passed down to his little brother when he is ready. Plus, it's a reason to get another rifle.

On another note, I never payed much attention to the youth permits out west and didn't know most states don't allow hunting until age 12. Here in IL it's as soon as you can pass the hunter safety course and next door in MO you can start at age 6 with adult supervision.

If you keep your eyes peeled, you can pick up a used leupold M8 6X42 for less than the vxii 3-9X40, and IMHO it is a much better scope.

I just went with that one because I have one on my rifle and have had good luck with it.

Fair enough, but once you try a 6X42, you'll likely prefer it.

I bet you're right...although it shoots 60 Partitions well, so maybe I've got a chance even with the twist on the 7...

I could make do with 53's I guess, if I had to...grin.

You have any idea how hard it is to smuggle a gun past that bunch?

I can't even try a new powder without the alarm going off...Grin!

DJ

Ha ha! sounds like night ops are in order! grins

Time to go covert, for sure.

Just goes to show what can happen when a guy starts with good intentions on the "youth rifle" path.

Thought the OP should know, is all...

It can be much better than one expects!

DJ

If you can find one, why not a Savage 99 in .250 Savage, 243 Win, or heck even 300 Savage, be a great rifle that he'll never outgrow.

I'm also been really liking those new Mossberg 464 30-30s, it would also be plenty light and handy for a youngster.

My taste may be called into question for bringing up the Mossberg, but what the heck, probably no worse than saying "The Big Labowski" is the greatest movie in modern history. Well what can I say, the dude abides.