I was at a local custom shop and they have started building double rifles. I asked some questions and they are taking well built SxS shotguns and re barreling them for rimed cartridges. varying from 30-40 krag, to the 500 nitro express. These are being built for people who want to venture to Africa ( for the big caliber cartridges). While I am not going to get to venture to Africa for a while. I was thinking about one in a smaller caliber for American hunting. Deer, pigs even for elk and moose in thick cover. The question. What rimmed cartridge would you chose? I was thinking if I ever went to Africa having a double would be nice. So do you go ahead and get a .40 + caliber rifle like the 450-400, 450, or 500. or do something like a 45-70, 45-90, or even smaller 30-40 krag. maybe a middle weight like the 9.3 x 74r. or the 375 fm? What would u want?

Is there a rimmed version of the 8x57? 195 grain Hornady? 200 grain Nolser partiton?

9.3x74!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would think they might be able to get a hold of a reamer for the 8x57 rimmed. What would be your choice if anything would be available? with-in the 30-40 krag to 500 ne.

I would go with the 7x57R. Hard to go wrong with the rimmed version of the classic 7x57.

Also, another good round would be the .303 British.

I would opt for the 9.3x74R or 375 Flanged

I would ask for the 375x444/375 Express/375 JDJ.

There was an interesting article
"A WORKING MAN�S AFRICAN DOUBLE" here:
http://bigfivehq.com/wmadr.htm
http://bigfivehq.com/wmadr2.htm

That one was on a Valmet which I have never owned, yet do not like the looks of.

A side by side would be very interesting.

I always though the .30-30 built on a scaled down action had merit.

I'd love to have a nice little SxS rifle in 303British.


.

One of my customers has done just that, he had Chapuis do just that, with a set of 28 gauge barrels.

I would opt for the 9.3x74 or the 450-400. Though a 7x57R would be pretty cool!

I'd love to have a nice little SxS rifle in 303British.

Nice choice SuperCub, I have a RB Rodda british double in 303, it is the quickest pointing rifle I own, very petite and accurate, w/ the 215 woodies @2155, recoil is mild and those woodies @ that vel. have astonishing penetration.

Gunner

I could roll with a rimmed 8x57

Or a drilling or a triplet.

9.3X74R is the way to go, in the U.S. we have many good bullets to choose from. Cabela's has the Sabatti's on sale now a good double, made as a double rifle, not on a shotgun frame that some one is trying to make work.

If you look at a Sabatti make sure you check the muzzle, they are known to grind the inside of them to regulate them. And pick one out with a good target.

that sounds like the guns that Clarks has started to come out with. Haven't seen them yet but i don't think that shop has ever come out with something that wasn't first rate.
I'll be dropping off a 1911 there next week and hope to get to see one.

I agree with most that a 9.3x74R would be the most practical but i'd still go with a 45O/4OO just because you could get into one at a really good price point.

7x65R Brenneke, 30R Blaser, and 9.3x74R would all be sound choices for a double that would see use in NA. These would also translate well to Africa.

Are they offering belted cartridges as an option? If so, that would certainly broaden your choices.

I've always thought a double in 348 Winchester would be very cool.

9.3x74R would be my choice....although I take my .470 pretty much everywhere

You should shoot a pronghorn with it if you haven't already!

it's on my to-do list....so far I've only shot elk and moose with it.

Good deal!! Think it'll exit?

or not expanding at all....

Cabela's has a 348 Win. listed cool!!!
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Josef-Winkler-Boxlock-Double-Rifle-348-Winchester/1170261.uts?Ntk=GunLibrary&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch%2F%3FN%3D%26No%3D20%26Ntk%3DGunLibrary%26Ntt%3Ddouble%2Brifles%26Ntx%3Dmode%252Bmatchall%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-Gun%2BLibrary%26WTz_st%3D%26WTz_stype%3DSP%26form_state%3DsearchForm%26search%3Ddouble%2Brifles%26x%3D14%26y%3D8&Ntt=double+rifles

I think this is an interesting question. The only double I have owned was Rigby made in 1912, chambered for the .350 #2 which is similar to a .338 Winchester in terms of bullet weight and velocity achieved but uses .358 caiber bullets.

Another double I handloaded for was a Westley Richards in .360/400 caliber which was a little less powerful and used .366 (9.3mm) bullets.

Something in that range would certainly be wonderful for timber hunting bear, moose, elk, or deer, but when I think of outfitting yourself from scratch, I think I would aim a little heavier in power, paying attention to retain lightness for the rifle itself and also retain moderate recoil.

In that regard, the two cartridges that stand out to me are the 9.3x74 based on the prolific (or nearly so)components which would encourage both practice and use, or the .450/400 which was made specifically for doubles.

If.....you ever go to Africa, as fininancial circumstances do tend to change in life, then the heavier caliber that you have learned to shoot well in the US would be an ideal companion for bushvelt hunting for anything from antelope up to buffalo.

John

405 WCF
AMRA

Lucky dog! ...... Any chance for pics? PLEASE!

.

Dang right SuperCub, shoot me a PM w/ an e-mail add. and Ill have the little wife send em' to ya.

Gunner

Hi Mauser8x57

In Europe where double are commonly used, gunsmiths prefer to use real double rifle receiver and no shotgun one because of the diameter of firing pin and firing pin hole which are larger on the second. When using some powerful rifle cartridges the primer can flow down around the firing pin, in the firing pin hole making the double almost impossible to open. Sometimes the shotgun receiver are weaker than the one for double rifle. For such conversion goes to lower pressure cartridges like the old euro standard 8x57R, 9,3x74R, 303 or the US 30Army. If it's a shotgun receiver you will stay away from hi pressure rounds like the 7x65R or the 30R Blaser. On a real double rifle action these two cartridges are OK. I don't know the "know how" of the gunsmith who transform such firearm but always keep in mind that regulation of double is time consuming and expensive to realise (except on new models with adjustable regulation). The longer range you want to have your convergence the most difficult it is to realise.
If you go to such deal you can also have a look at the 405 Winchester. At the beginning of 20th century Belgian and French company made some double in this caliber that were wery well appreciated for wild boar, red stags and even Africa big game by colon leaving there.
Chapuis is making lovely small caliber SxS double on real 28 gauge receiver in 30-30, 6,5x57, 7x57 but they are rather expensive.
I lived some years in Canada (east and west) where game is the same as yours (mostly): if i had to select a caliber, it would be 9,3x74R because it has a great margin of power and can deal with small whitetail to the biggest bears or giant Yukon moose.
But that's an opinion from a non too appreciated (by US people)french frog on an US forum...
Dom

Hi Mauser8x57

Here are some picture of double:
the first two are the small Chapuis in 7x57R Luxus version



The third is an express drilling from Merkel 9,3x74Rx2 and a 20 gauge barrel

The fourth one is a plebeian double OU from Haenel (Merkel) in 9,3x74R with new Aimpoint red dot sight HunterH34
With this one i shot two red deer, two boars and a roe in one day of driven hunt in Thuringia Germany on public forest. Good OU around 2500euros in France

Express drilling even the standard models are very expensive but are really fantastic in wild country rich of different game like in Canada BC or in your states

I'd love to have a quick handling double in 7x57R....

9.3x74R wouldn't be bad either... but...

In the meantime I've got a quick handling one in 50-70 built on a trim SxS german sgn.
Not the antelope getter but does a number on some other game!

Hi Was 21,

Must be good for hogs, i like big slow pills when shooting them close!

"that sounds like the guns that Clarks has started to come out with"

That is where I saw them. They are very nice and quite expensive when it comes to that, but not overly expensive when it comes to Doubles. They have a gentleman that comes in and regulates them . They have a target displayed, range 65 yards, where the bullets are touching. For ME it would be the purchase I would only make once in my life. I would want to get the cartridge I Could get the most use out of and still not feel like I didn't get the right gun. Go to big and it is impractical for hunting here but go too small and I wouldn't want to take it the biting animal country. I like the idea of the the middle weight 9.3x 74.

I'd like a 9.3X74R.

I like the Sabatti in 45-70 I saw at Cabelas.
The drilling would be nice but to rich for my budget I'm sure.

Here those pics and a brief description on Gunner's 303. Very nice rifle, indeed! Thanks for sharing that one.

My choice would be the 45-70 with a 405gr bullet on top of black powder. Now that would be cool ! I shoot this combo in my Encore barrel.

Ken

First ask yourself: Do you you actually want to shoot it?

I answered this same question myself a while back, thinking of a 9.3x74R. I found that the Chapuis UGEX was a terrific gun for the money, but when I weighed one, I ordered an 8x57R instead, specifying regulation for the 196/200 grain bullet.

IMO, the 9.3 has too much recoil for this light double, if you actually want to shoot it a lot and still be able to take most anything in North America. The 8x57R (7x57R was not avialable at the time or that would have been my choice.)The 8x57R is a great cartridge: Brass is avaiable(S&B is actually pretty good), you use regular 8x57JS dies, bullets are plentiful(the 200 Partition is a fabulous bullet at 2350fps.) RL15 is THE powder.

Whatever you do, go with a RIMMED cartridge with heavy for caliber bullets at MODEST velocity, under 2500fps. Load developement is easy and accuracy will be much easier to obtain. The 30-40(220gr), 303 British(215gr), 8x57R,(196 or 215gr), and 7x57R(175 gr) all fill the bill and are traditional light double rifle cartridges. Rimless high pressure cartridges and light bullets may work but can be nightmare in a double. The 30-30 is cute but a bit anemic and will not satisfy.

SuperCub, Thanks for posting pics.

kifaru, You make a very valid point, shootin' is susposed to be fun, I can grab that little 303 and the ammo belt and spend hours on the mountain and fields here on my farm, just walkin' and shootin.
Great practice and a train load of fun, waitin on the fall frost.

Gunner

My choice for the rimmed rounds is the 9.3x74R. I own a Chapuis UGEX in this caliber and used it to shoot my last two moose. It has been my go to gun since I bought it.

But I also a Remington Baikal 30-06 that will shoot 2 shots from each barrel under 1 1/4 inches at 50 yards and I plan on using it for deer and black bear. Rifle loves the 220 grain Hornadys.

Was planning on using my Searcy 450 NE on moose this coming fall but a shoulder injury is keeping me from shooting the big bores for awhile.

No matter what caliber you pick you will end up buying more as double rifles are an addiction. I have a VC 450-400 that should be finished soon and then I am stopping! (at least I tell myself no more)

Snowwolfe,

Good luck on stopping, to resist the double rifle virus is futile, to date there is no known cure LOL, I have the little 303B a 500 and 577 Nitro ex. and have been leaning hard on a beautiful 1928 450-400 Nitro, Westley Richards top lever hammer rifle w/ stalking safeties.
Oh damn.

Gunner