Guys,

Recently acquired a Winchester Model 70 25-06 with the BOSS. Can anyone tell me if there is a book available to learn how to correctly use this system ? Thanks

Ken

Browning and Winchester had a book that came with the guns that gave starting sweet spots for factory ammo available at that time. I'd give Win. a call or see if they have a link to it on their website.

Just a tidbit of info from other reloaders who have tried to work with the BOSS.. If you're using ONLY factory ammo, it may take only a half-dozen boxes of ammo before you find that 'sweet spot'.. If you are using handloads, prepare for a LOT of components, a LOT of time spent and severe migraines trying to get everything to match.. Problem is then, when you reload for that round again and you've now got a new 'lot' number of powder, you may have to start all over again.. By the time you actually get it dialed in, you may have hundreds of rounds down the tube..

Many have saved tons of time, money and frustration by cutting off that little device and putting a new crown on the muzzle..

Simply a word to the wise..

My friend has had three rifles with the BOSS. A Browning A-bolt in 223 and an A-bolt in 300 WSM and a 338 Win Mag BAR. They all came with the instruction booklet. It is really quite easy to use the BOSS.

I would place the BOSS in the recommended position and shoot my friend's rifles. If the group size wasn't as tight as I thought it should be I'd twist the BOSS part of a turn in one direction and shoot again. One more twist in same direction and shoot. I would be able to see easily if there was a trend towards tighter group size. If there was a trend I'd continue twisting in that direction till I got tightest group. If not twist back to original position and rotate in opposite direction repeating same proceedure till it shot its best. All three rifles responded well to the BOSS adjustments. This isn't much different than tweaking handloads for best accuracy. I think there will be less rounds fired using a BOSS than tweaking handloads.

The 223 thrives on the inexpensive ammo cans of 500 rounds purchased at gunshows. The 300 WSM shoots bugholes with handloads. The BAR shot very well with handloads too.

At one time I had a Browning heavy barrel in .223. The instructions came with it but for some reason the factory had NOT developed a sweet spot for it. I called the factory and they said the sweet spot for this had never been developed but didn't say why.

So I had to start with the setting at zero and work my way "around the clock". In my experience each time the setting was moved several shots had to be fired to make the BOSS settle down before a meaningful test group could be fired.

A lot of rounds went down the tube before a setting of 1.55 was found. (Anyone who has a Browning .223 might want to try this setting and let us know how it works.)

From this point forward I just left the setting alone and played with various powder charges the same way as I have always done with my guns not equipped with a BOSS. I decided I would never again buy a BOSS equipped gun because I couldn't see a benefit to it.

If you are buying a gun for which the factory supplies a sweet spot and only shoot factory ammo the system probably works as advertised.

Jim

Looky looky

Nother looky looky

I've had 2 BOSS equiped M70's, a 264 and a 280 FWT. My experience has been very different from Redneck's. Start with the sweet spot and in less than 10 rounds, I could get an MOA or better group.

Maybe I just got lucky, but IME, they are ugly, they are loud, but they work great.

I have never owned a Boss but I figured just the amount of shooting required to find the so called "sweet spot" would make you a better shot.

I also don't really believe you can be positive when you have found the "sweet spot". After repeated shooting and continuous recoil is your form improving or
getting worse?

Is the barrel getting fouled? barrel hot? Are ambient temps changing? Wind change?

Are you getting fatigued? Flinching?

It seems every time that I feel my rifle is sighted exactly like I want,and when I return to the range, the rifle is always just a little different.

The rifle didn't change, rather many other conditions changed. Clean barrel, wind, temps, humidity, really good coffee...

I just don't feel the AVERAGE person can really utilize the boss.

A sales gimmick if you ask me. I have watched 2 buddy's play with their boss at the range and they kinda just shrug their shoulders when I ask how it's working.

Sales gimmick...no question. And it obviously did not work for Winchester very well.

You may be right in terms of finding the absolute sweet spot. all I can say is that it was always easy for me to pick a bullet I wanted to use for a particular purpose, and then dial in the BOSS so that the load shot MOA or less, which was/is good enough for a hunting load for me. but again, that's just 2 rifles and maybe I just got lucky.

Well stated..

Exactly.. Not just Winnie, but Browning as well. Didn't last long, did it??


Added: Forgot; Blue book shows a 10% premium for BOSS-equipped rifles.. Funny, but the market prices of used BOSS-equipped items are invariably LESS than one's without..

Hmmmm...

Had a 280 and a 300win. and sold 'em to get to Africa. Three things...they work, they're loud and they're ugly.

Pick your bullet, pick your speed, tune the barrel to your loads, instead of the other way around. You don't handload to tune the boss, you make the barrel tune to the load you want.

I have a buddy with a win m70 super grade (IIRC) in 30-06 that loves his with the boss.

I don't like the looks of them with the additional 2.5" on the end of the barrel, but I do believe it works. I would go with the cr version with no ports if I were to get one.

Thanks guys for the imformation of experience.

Tom, thanks for posting the Winchester Sweet Spot Chart.

Lee, If the BOSS is cut and then recrowned I'd wind-up with a 20 or 21" barrel.

Ken

I recommend at least giving it a try, bearing in mind that you are tuning the rifle to the load, and if the load changes, so does the BOSS adjustment.

I had an aftermarket version of the BOSS, made by a company called QUE (Quality U Expect). Worked on the same prinicpal. I picked a load that gave the velocity I wanted and tried a group at the midpoint setting. Adjusted in five clicks and the group was a little tighter. Just kept adjusting in until the groups started to open, then went back to the previous setting. In the end, the device changed a 1.3" rifle to a .6" rifle. Down side was it was ugly and loud.

Anyway, based on my limited experience, barrel tuners work, but you have to be methodical, and have to be satisfied with one load unless you want to re-tune.

John

And hope the temperature doesn't change...............................DJ

I never noticed the device getting out of tune unless I changed loads, but that was to be expected.

John

ive got one on my .300win mag, its set on zero and shoots a house of fire with my handloads. i took that noisy som beeyotch off and put the cr on it. there is instructions on how to tune them on browings web page somewhere.

I had one in an A-Bolt it was quite accurate, easy to find the sweet spot but very fussy if I changed any components. One test was 140g Nosler Partition, BT and Solid Base; groups were all good. POI shifted dramatically. Sold the rifle would not buy another. GRF

The "sweet spot" list posted here contains info re the .223. Makes me wonder when Browning published it. It must have been a few years after I got mine since the factory told me they didn't have a "sweet spot" for the .223 when I called to inquire.

I think they can be useful for the person who shoots factory ammo and doesn't like to experiment.

Jim

Hope this helps.

6.5 Swede

http://www.browning.com/customerservice/qna/detail.asp?ID=109

I had a few M70's with Boss's on them. I found them to be useful. They changed my reloading protocol. With the boss, I would find the powder that gave me the highest velocity without pressure signs, and then tune it for that load. It was reasonably successful.

The first boss I purchased, was on a 30-06 with the synthetic fwt stock. I also had a Model 6 Remington pump in '06, and had several hundred rounds of several bullet weights loaded up for it. I took a hundred of the worst shooting load for the pump, about 1.5-1.75", and took the M70 to the range. After sight in and 60 rounds later, it was shooting clover leafs. I was very satisfied with the performance.

I had an Abolt in 300 win with a BOSS and it was very accurate. I then had a machinist buddy of mine turn down the BOSS on his lathe so that it was barrel contour and just as long as the threads,in other words a cap. Looking at it you had to look close to see that there was anything there at all. Result, it still shot lights out with the same load as before. Sold it to my nephew and he says he is keeping it because of the great accuracy. So, accurate barrel? Yes, and the BOSS made no difference. I had one other, a 7mm08 Browning that was a 2 inch gun no matter what I did. It's gone, too and there will be no more. Guy brought one into the shop last week, told him I wasn't interested. Said he had $1200 in it with the buckmaster scope on it with a bipod. I told him it was worth maybe half that, and that would be retail price. Used Brownings don't fly off the shelf here. I tried to get $450 for an A-bolt in 7wsm, SS, no BOSS with Talley Lightweights, no takers, so I took it home.

Dial it down to 000 and shoot away. Or, cut that ugly piece of metal off and recrown..I had one and didn't have the time or patience for it.

Gave you the wrong link last time.

http://www.browning.com/customerservice/ownersmanuals/index.asp

the "Boss" Manual is on the bottom right

6.5 Swede