I got to thinking that I spend way too much time on the nuance of ballistic gack and reloading and really just need to add something to the stable that makes so much sense it is sinful to not use it as my go-to rifle ALL the time. Since I hunt in the east, I figure this set up gets it done with a minimum of fuss from coyotes to white tails to black bear:

Out of the box Ruger M77 chambered in .308 Winchester
Leupold 4X scope
Uncle Mike's Mountain Sling
Factory Federal 165 grain Barnes Triple-Shock X

Can anyone think of anything more effective and reliable, for less money out the door?

The rifle will likely need at least a trigger adjustment, and that's too much bullet.

I went with the 165 instead of the 150 to save meat -- keep impact velocities down, and to increase the likelihood of getting two holes at odd angles and thru bone.

With the monometal TTSX you'll have no issues with the 150gr.

Cup in core maybe but not mono.

Speed kills with the Barnes. The higher the impact speed the better. Save meat by not shooting them in it.

As to two holes and bone, have you seen Steelhead's pics of the things he's whacked with 130 grain TTSX bullets from the 308 and 300 Savage?

Good stuff, OK, here we go then, adjusted set-up:

Ruger M77 / .308 Winchester
trigger work
Leupold 4X scope
Uncle Mike's Mountain Sling
Factory Federal 150 grain Barnes Triple-Shock X

Weren't you paying attention to what mathman was saying???

Barnes 130s out of a .308 are about as good as life gets. Prefer the TTSX, but if your rifle shoots the TSX that's cool too. There's nothing I would worry about shooting with them in North America. 46 grains of Varget and TTSXs is so good it's almost criminal.

Sounds good I have had a similar thought pattern running through my head as of late.

With the possible exception of the 98 Mauser action, the Ruger and Winchester CRF actions are probably the most reliable out there.
The 4X Leupold is another that is legendary in it's reliability.
Nobody I've met, who ever hunted a .308 much, had any misgivings about it.
I would, however, do a trigger job, or replace the factory unit if it doesn't come out as it should, and go with a free floated barrel. I've found such setups hold zero over the long haul very reliably and make the use of a shooting sling practical.
Last of all, I'd get either a Cling Sling setup or use a military shooting sling. E

Orginal Ballard Pacific with lead/tin bullets and bp. Iron sights (tang and barrel). Individually proven for over 130 yrs. Kills pretty much anything and everything, every time.

Yes, my EW in a Mickey stock with any boolet desired. Sweeeeetnesssss..........

The only changes I would make if it were me are:

Winchester Sporter in 30-06 ($649 @ CDNN)
2x7 power scope with German #4 reticle
1" Montana Sling
Run 165 grn to the occasional 180 grn on bear


Edit: BTW, I have an FNH made Winchester. The new trigger on the Winchesters are fantastic. Also, the one piece metal base plate is far superior to the two piece on the older Winchester and current Ruger rifles.

For me it would be a Remington 700 KS stainless in 30/06. We've had dozens of guys here over the years from Alaska using 700's and I don't recall any of them saying the 700 wasn't dead nuts reliable.

I have that rifle. An all weather Hawkeye I found it used for a good price. Different scope and ammo, but for the money I completely agree with you. I have other rifles I like better, but doubt if any are more reliable out of the box. The others aren't much more accurate either, even though they cost much more.

Put a decent 3-9 on there and you'll have a much nicer rig. It's the 21st century, no reason at all to handicap yourself with a fixed 4X.

While they do have a pretty good rep, I've had and seen enough problems with Remington 600/700 rifles not to call them "stone nuts reliable."
I've had bolt releases jam open, seen trigger get enough goo in them, usually from the opening for the safety, and even a busted extractor or two. To say nothing of having them lock up if the ammo was too hot.
I've had one Ruger, with a super hot load and one 98 Mauser with same extract and eject the fired case with the primer completely gone. Never seen a Remington that could do that. E

Those old myths die hard around here. Nice to reminisce though...

And the first thing you got hit with was a quibble about ballistic gack.

I love the campfire...

And the naysayers(whose worthy opinions I otherwise have very high regard for... ) regarding the 4X scope.

I will take it and run....don't bet agin' me....

No offense Eremicus, but everything you just stated was shooter/owner neglect. Poor/unsafe loading techniques and lack of basic maintenance aren't rifle problems.

I'd say its a good idea, here's the same setup in 30-06:

I passed on the 130 TTSX because I want the base load to be factory ammo, hence the Federale 150 Triple-Shock X...

if it doesn't shoot well... then either the 150 Partition or the 165 Trophy Bonded Tip.

God bless that boat paddle Ruger!!!!!!!!!!! AMEN!!

Darn, that's what it was! Lack of proper bolt handle maintenance...

Not sure what that has to do with what Eremicus cited but I'm sure that sucked when it happened.

That wasn't gack, it was guidance.

No need for 180 gr in the 308 for bear unless unusually large. I have cleanly taken 600 lb with 165gr tsx and Hornady Cup and core. I will not argue with 150 gr as have not recovered any 165 gr bullet.

Randy

Just being a smart ass.

Sounds like a great set-up, but I'm an unabashed fan of Ruger bolts and levers.

I'd run a 3-9x and a TTSX. I like stretchy slings, much easier on the shoulder at the end of a long day of carry. Get one with a good non-slip surface.

And I wouldn't be afraid of saving some coin by buying used. BTDT several times and very happy with all.

As to getting something more reliable/rugged, I like the boat paddle stocks. $85 at Numrich last time I got one. Also picked up a used one for $50 delivered. Other than that, no other rifle I know of will beat the Ruger for rugged and reliable.

.308 and 4x is perfect for eastern hunting. As for ammo, shoot the most accurate load.

Beginning to think this might be my version........


Remington 600 Mohawk......308 Win.....1.5-6x42 Sightron SSII

Why do you think "CRF actions are probably the most relialbe out there"? When's the last time you saw a dangerous game rifle Mark V in a CRF?

True enough, MK V's are not CRF, but they are not preffered by PH's either. The one PH whom I have met (in Zim, 2006 I believe)and hunted with who had one was planning to trade it in on a Mauser or Winchester or CZ actioned rifle of some sort as soon as he could afford to do so. The wby was a gift and was all he had so he used it.

BTW, for Eatern US hunting, I like the OP's set up as described with 130-150s in TSX form for any and all up to Elk, and there is nothing wrong with the 165's in the event that Elk or Bear are oft on the menu. Well thought out and executed overall plan or blueprint.

That may be true most of the time but I tend to like heavy for caliber bullets for non-ideal shots. Furthermore, I wouldn't run 180's in a 308. That is why I prefer the 30-06 for a non-magnum "go to" rifle. Just my 2 pennies.

Wonder how we ever got by with the old cheap store bought ammos?
Actually, I don't recall ammo related failures. Human error, different story

About the only thing I'd change...

I've recently gone down the path of wanting a simple and sturdy, general purpose utility rifle. I originally thought it would be a .308 with a 4x33 Leupold. As it turns out I was at a gunshow a couple weeks ago and I spotted a Ruger 77 tang safety Ultralight with open sights. This one is a .30-06 and I'm glad I jumped on it.

At 7.4 lbs including a Leupold 2.5-8x36 and an 18.5" barrel it is quite light and compact. Also, being a Ruger, the sights are sturdy, scope mounting is very stout and the bolt handle is an integral part of the bolt body, not soldered on (I have had a Remington bolt handle come off).

To increase the reliability, it is bedded and I took the stock off to seal all of the wood inside the stock with spar varnish. I've waxed the metal and keep it well oiled. The only change I would make in favour of reliability might be to use a fixed 4x scope but I already owned the Leupold 2.5-8x that I have mounted on it

I've had this rifle to the range four times so far and one matter of reliability that has impressed me is that the first three shots fired from a cold bore, fouled or freshly cleaned, always go where they should and group well under one inch.

Gun and scope plan sounds ok to me Dogger, but don't see the need for Barnes of any persuasion. 2 years back I set up a Marlin XS-7 in 308 with a tactical scope with Weavers and a Burris 6x in Weavers for the same purpose,swap scopes check zero as needed. TAC and 150 gr Horn, WWPP,Corelokts and a few others all give usuable accuracy for anything I could use it on. The idea was as inexpensive but as good as possible for me anyway and I got it done. I bet my last dime that it would shoot the cheapest priced ammo Wallyworld will sell and still give great results getting the job done.How is that for gacklessness? Magnum Man

Dogger,

I have similiar set-up Ruger M77 Hawkeye in 308win, I put fixed Leupie FXII 6x42 on mine. Not sure how I'll like the fixed 6x yet. I'll probably shoot 150gr hornady interlocks in mine.

Ofcourse, you could just use a 7x57/8x57 mauser in a M98 action, a 6.5x55 in a M96 action, reconfigure the bolt, drill and tap, add a trigger,change the safety, even improve the sights, and still be less than the Ruger and be "dead nuts reliable". You do not get much more reliable than this action type, being that rough use and bad weather were taken into account when it was designed. I have yet to see one that would not shoot well enough to take your deer/bear/hog/moose, etc. inside 300 yards. Mostly a handloading undertaking, but who amoung us would not do that anyway. And you could just use cup and core bullets in medium to heavy for caliber weights and cleanly take game just like these combinations have for longer than most of us have been alive.

and for BobinNH,
You could just get a pre64 M70 in .270 or 30-06 and "rock on". Ofcourse it would cost more than the Ruger, but quality does cost less in the long run!!

and for Blackheart,
Just buy a win mod 94 or a marlin 336 in 30/30 and go kill [bleep].

Here is a photo of my first two boat paddles - .300WM on top and .30-06 on bottom. The .30-06 came with a laminate stock that I replaced.





My latest boat paddle, which I had assembled from parts this last spring.
Stainless action purchased 2 years ago
Stainless factory barrel someone had fluted, purchased from Alaska
Boat paddle stock purchased new from Numrich
Burris FFI /Ballistic Pex 3-9x and rings that I had in the safe
Chambered for .338 Win Mag




The Ruger #1 is a .280 Rem.

Life is too short to hunt with fugly rifles. Like the No 1 a lot, though.

RE Barnes bullets.... why NOT? Not ballistic Gack, gen U wine vast superiority and allows for one moderate weight bullet to do the work of many other loads thus making the equation MORE simple and much LESS 'GACKY'

Sight it in with the 165 or 150 TTSX's and go fill a semi truck or three with dead stuff of many different shapes and sizes. From 2 lbs to 2000, you will be all set with good bullet placement.

And to think I paid EXTRA to have those "fugly" stocks!

Rem. 700 ADL 308 (or 243)
Leupold 4X
Corelokt 150g (or 100g if 243) in the Green and Yellow box

Sycamore

Sounds like a great setup.

I'd run 150 Federal Fusions if it were me.

I'll admit the blown primers were unsafe loading practices, but lack of "basic maintence," problems I don't buy. That's because other actions don't have these problems under the same conditions. E

One gripe with the Ruger for me was the use of blind pins preventing a complete takedown.

WWII BCD Mauser in 8mm with a Redfield peep site and old Bishop stock. Like the energizer bunny, it just keeps going and going.

Yeah, that would would be a run forever and kill most anything gun.

So would a SMLE (aka - SMELLY) with a decent stock, or a sporterized Moisin Nagant.

Yep, but the Mauser doesn't strech the brass and has a much better trigger than the Nagant. However either of those has and will get the job done. RemChestSavRug etc are good rifles, but if I really had to pick one to go to......

A C-ring Mauser is without peer.

Savage, A-Bolt, or Tikka. In that order.

The C is the epitome of the ilk and beyond repute and contrived facsimilies will never bear like fruit.

A bolt feeding issues, Tikka I could agree, but not CRF Savage as well. Dead reliable a Mauser will work for me.

Did you not notice the "whistling face" on his comment about the Abolt and Tikka? Tongue was planted Firmly into cheek for that one. I would not be even able to type that comment.

Agree about the poor triggers on the Moisin's. SMLE's can stretch cases as well, but we were talking dead nuts relaibe and practical. I don't one of either rifle anymorfe for the reasons mentioned.

Did not notice that, my bad.. FIL has an A bolt, asked about his feeding issues with a 243, one look at the barrel ramp and Hmmm, yes you do have an issue. Not something that could be fixed in the field, or with the ramp geometry at a gunsmith.

It was a long ways to go to concur with the vaunted C-ring and it's splendors.

I have the wrong scope on it, however the Kimber Montana in 308 goes a long way towards being pretty rugged. I think I would opt for the FXII 6X instead of the 4X.

Is that possible?



I had the same thought which resulted in the purchase of a Ruger All Weather in 280 Remington. Such a delightful package with its Timney trigger. It makes all my other shooting irons jealous.

Can't argue with that.

I went with a stainless M77Hawkeye .308 All Weather. Had the barrel fluted and bolt Handel skeletonized just because. Trigger set at 2-3/4lbs. Started out with a Leupold FXII 6X but have since changed to a Zeiss Conquest 2.5-8X32. Mostly shoot Nosler 150AB, but will try the 130TTSX someday.

When this thread started I remembered when you posted the story of killing that buck and the Ruger you used. I thought it was about a perfect set up.

Hard to argue with a CRF 308 of some sort. The Ruger is stupid-strong/simple. I'd go with a 6x36 or variable over a 4X but that's just me. Would also add, I can't see the need for a bullet like the 165 TTSX in the 308 Win to be used on deer and such. As Rancho Loco pointed out, Federal Blue Box would be hard to beat.

That is a nice setup all around - rifle, cartridge, scope and bullet. Used a 150g AB to take down my elk last fall, albeit with a Ruger .30-06 instead of a .308.

How much for the "Handel" work? Wow.

Can't say for sure.I had everything done as a package, barrel, Handel, trigger. I wanted the the bolt fluted and skeletonized but they said they couldn't do much with the bolt because of the 2 piece type bolt that Ruger uses. So just the handel was done along with barrel and trigger. Don't think I would do it again with a Ruger, it didn't take much weight out of the Ruger, but I did wonders (weight wise) with a Remington 700 Stainless SPS in 257 Weatherby.

Is that the picture of a deer from Montana? I remember a few pics of a deer from there that I thought was the best looking whitetail I've seen.

Yes, it is from Montana.

That's a HUGE scope for that little rifle....thought of a 4X Leupold?

A Rem 700, or one of it's variants is the LAST rifle I would pick for reliability.....a Ruger M77 Mark II or Hawkeye or a Model 70 would be the most commonly available new rifle I would consider.

A stainless 308 or 30-06 with a 2.5-8X Leupold would be my pick.

Here's mine from this morning... Kimber 308 Win and 2.5-8 Leupold:

near perfection in a lightweight....

My "go to" 308:



Ignore the sling in the photo. The rifle wears a simple Biothane one now.

Offside comeups and ring spacing are equally interesting.

Re: the comeups on the far side (and they're upside down, too), if I'm on the rifle and I need to refer to the chart, I just lean the stock in a little towards me to read it. The rings are mounted on a 0 degree Picatinny rail, hence the spacing.

Boxer, I'm sure you recognize the stock as being a G&H. I seem to recall that you favor those if one must shoot a Winchester. I'm still hopeful that McMillan will bring them back...

I'd reckon it an odd occurrence when snuggling near a stock that the inside is not the leading edge next to my blinkers. I was under the impression that a stretched 1913 rail irregardless of inclination,was a ripe vehicle from which to extoll maximum ring spacing so as to bolster the harmonious sanctity of POA/POI intersection in the long term. My bad.

I think you were talking about things not working properly because of dirt/debris or mechanisms gumming up sticking/stuck if I'm not mistaken. Those aren't rifle action design issues. To bad Big Stick isn't here to share some of the pics of his Montucky with so much rust you would think it would have stopped working altogether. Never heard him complain once about that rifle (enclosed trigger design) or any of his 700's not working and he beats the [bleep] out of everything he owns.

I was under the impression that 700's were in hostile environments with all branches of the Service?

No, apparently a week of stand hunting is the new test standard..

Don't slight the "hardships" incurred by driving a 4-wheeler to a haybale.

That's CRF territory.

Haybale & Crockett is the best chance CRF has.

For the CRF Legions and keeping a Theme.

Link

Wichester M70 Classic in any configuration, or any Sako (I prefer A series).

For me it will be my Kimber 84L Montana in 270WCF..... whenever they get to making them. Right now the same version in 30-06 will do just fine. The glass will be a 3.5-10x40 VX3 (Duplex) with Talley LW lows and a lightweight Butler Creek sling.

I've got a nicely sporterized SMLE but I wouldn't bet on one to be dead reliable. Mine has broken two extractor springs in the 20 years I've owned it and it hasn't been shot all that much.

My dad would wholeheartedly agree with your .308 rig. He shot deer and elk with his. He didn't need variable scopes or fancy bullets. A straight 4x scope and Hornady Interlocks or Remington Core-lokts was all he used. His was a 1950's vintage Savage 110L. The only changes he made was to cut the barrel back to 20 inches and put a recoil pad on it. The stock metal buttplate even on a .308 would really bruise the shoulder.

I never did act on this concept... but there is 15" of snow outside and it got me thinking about it again. Fast forward to the present, I am thinking a 20" barreled Steyr Pro Hunter, in 308 or 7mm08, with Uncle Mike's mountain sling, and a handloaded 120 TTSX (7mm) or 130 TTSX (.30)... scope it with a bulletproof 6x42MQ...

It was fun to re-read through this old thread.

My stone-nuts reliable go-to rifle for many years was a tang-safety Ruger 77 in 7x57 that I bought brand-new, with a Leupold M8-4x. It killed a lot of critters with factory ammo during a very busy period of my life when I lived in the big city and didn't have a good range to use. Later when I got serious testing it and loading for it, I found that it was truly about a 2 MOA rifle, no matter what I tried with the rifle or load. It had one of those poor barrels that Ruger put out a bunch of back in those days.

I liked the rifle enough that if I had it to do over again, I would have simply re-barreled it. I wound up trading it in on a customized Rem 722 in 257 Robts that was a much better shooter.

I missed the rifle and the 7x57 cartridge enough that, fast forward many years, my current dead-nuts go-to rifle is a:

Win M-70 pushfeed Featherweight 7x57 in a McMillan synthetic stock, wearing the Weaver K4-1 scope that came on it and keeps working so well that I haven't bothered replacing it.

The rifle is a very good shooter preferring almost any bullet of the 140 grs. range, and has held its zero for years now without being touched. And I do like this rifle even more than the early Ruger M77 I had, so now I don't really miss the Ruger like I did for awhile.

It is fun, and necessary, I think, to go through using many different rifles to learn what one really likes the best. And to find what works the best for an individuals specific wants and needs.

There are alot of other great rifles to consider, at much lower prices.

The Howa Lightning in .308, (not the new ones with a Hogue stock, but the ones imported up to about 10 years ago, with the standard weight barrel and the heavy duty black synthetic stock.) Can be had with some looking for around $425 in VG+ condition.

Uses the same mounts and rings as the Remington 700.

I nice big two-position safety, that has very positive clicks.

Scope: One of the newer Weaver "Classic K" scopes, in either 2.5 power or 4 power. Built like tanks, great eye relief, utterly reliable.

No, the rifle is not controlled feed, but I can honestly say after 50 years of hunting with push feeds, that I have never jammed one, and never feared for my life from a charging whitetail.

Or, if you simply must have CRF, then one of the 1960s made Mark Xs or FN commercial grades. The price of these have really dropped in the past 10 years,as younger hunters and shooters just don't give a rats-butt about mauser actions. Just saw a beautiful 1950s, FN Deluxe, in 98% condition, in .308, go unsold for $550.

Mannyrock

It was.


Boxer was actually comprehensible.


If I can get a 270 MT cycling cartridges as smooth as an ADL it will become the new fave.

6x36LR's on both, 140 AB's, H4831sc(which is right there with H4350 in stone cold temp reliability).

I'd still think that the better option is a Ruger stainless 308, and either a Leupie 4x or 6x.

Your first set-up was better....

Im just not a 308 fan. I Rather have 7-08 or 270.
Lighter bullets with ttsx as other said speed kills using those.
They don't shed weight like lead. Plus with 308 I wouldn't go heavier.
130 ttsx in 270 and you can go much flatter and longer
Or 708 in 120/140
Also get a tikka if you really want practical and reliable.

factory corelokt 150's will suffice in that gun for anything that walks in the east out to several hundred yards. i'm not a fan of the high end factory loads for eastern game. its pretty much a waste of money. but other than that, looks right to me.

Make it a Ruger American Compact Stainless and Fed 150 Hi-Shok w personal favorite scope and it would come closer to Dogger's thrifty original proposition.

But where's the fun in that?

Currently mulling .308 v. .270 Montana for my approaching dotage...

Actually, what I've noticed is that the rifle need not be a CRF design to be "practical and stone nuts reliable."
What I've come to appreciate are other features which are usually found on such rifles.
First of all, almost all of "rifle reliability problems" have occured under only certain hunting conditions that I suspect aren't encountered by alot of hunters.
My favorite hunting area by far, is a very unusual area with much different hunting conditions than most encounter.
It can be very dusty driving around off road in my very open Jeep. Much of this dust is very fine and has a habit of finding it's way into a rifle's action. Since my hunts run 3-4 weeks of this, it can easily accumulate in the action.
Second, all of my good bucks had to be taken on the run, ducking a dodging through cover. The rifle needs to feed and eject with complete reliability.
Last of all, I hate having to clean the insides of my rifle daliy or close to it. I've got lot of other camp chores to do at the end of the day, and I'm often exhausted from a combination of off roading, eating dust and hunting on foot over very unstable desert ground.
While it is true that the military does well with the Remington 700 based sniper rifles, I simply don't follow their constant maintenance and testing procedures. It's not practical for me.
The rifles/action that I've found completely reliable are my old tang safety Ruger, which is a push feed action BTW, my M70 Classic and my M98 Mauser. All of them have claw style extractors, all of them have open trigger designs for easy cleaning, and all of them have safeties which don't allow the fine dust to gum them up. And they all have bolt stops which don't jam open, which then means you'll have the bolt out of the rifle the one one time you need to get another round into the chamber in a hurry to hit that buck. E

While you didn't act on the idea, I did.

Ruger Scout, .308 Win, 16.1" barrel. Mounted a 3-9x scope for load development, then removed it and replaced the peep sight. should be good for 300 yards with the peep.

Ran through the ballistics for the 130g TTSX 150g AB and 208g A-MAX loads I developed and was surprised by the results, which are available here:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...8_Win_short-barrel_hunting_#Post10885215

FN Winchester 70, 270 winchester
3-9x40 zeiss conquest
Uncle Mikes Padded Sling
130 Nosler Partitions - factory or hand-loaded.

Outside a Grizzly hunt or the trip to Africa, this would handle everything I will probably every hunt for my life in Idaho and other western states.

Steyrs are interesting, but DMs are out for me in the dead reliable catagory. Just one more thing to break or lose. Price a replacement sometime.

I understand the losing a mag routine (have done it with 22 rimfires).... but don't want to rule it out...as long as I don't lose it, the rifle and mag can be dead nuts reliable.