I'm about to pull the plug on a Kimber 84L. I'm a 270 guy and thought think this would be my perfect rifle in that caliber. I was talking to a buddy about it yesterday and he thought I was crazy for not getting a 280AI. He went off on a rather long rant naming the reasons that the 280AI was superior to the 270.

At this point, I can be persuaded. Which is best? I'm a one rifle guy so this rifle will be used for everything ID has to offer.

Better bullet selection and a little more juice with 280 ai. Either one will kill stuff dead as dead gets!

Don't own either, but if I were weighing the choices the first question is, do you handload? Pretty clear discriminator on this one. 270 will be much easier to sell should the need arise. I think the 280AI would be cool.

I went looking for an 84L yesterday. I want a 30-06.

My local dealer called Kimber and they have a .270 ready to ship. A 30-06 or .280AI was probably 5 months out.

I have a 280 AI, so I am obviously prejudiced but the reasons I got one in that caliber was the selection of bullets to hand-load and the ability to use regular 280 Rem ammo if I need to. Both will kill about the same, but so will a .260rem.

BINGO!

25-06 is what i am getting.

For a young guy, Tanner is really smart!

I'd get a 280AI because I already have more 270's than I know what to do with,and the chambering in that rifle is kinda unique among stuff made today.

Get the .270. That's one less in front of me for the .280!

If you're not a reloader you probably don't shoot all that much anyway to make ammo cost a factor in which to buy. If you hang out here for any amount of time you'll realize how easy it would be to sell the 280 Ackley right here in the classified's if that (resale) really motivates you one way or the other with new gun purchases.

If you're happy with the 270 then get one. If you want to be different, handload, then get the 280ai.

Me personally, as much as I want the 280ai, I think I am going to start with a 25-06

Funny, I have a .30-06 on the way, should be here by the end of the week or early next week.

Smarter than I look!

I have a 30-06 on the way.

I'll reload for either caliber. My game plan is to put a 2.5x8 Leupold with a CDS dial. I'm not much of a long range (400 Yds plus) shooter at this time but will likely spend more time shooting longer with the dials.

My buddy went off on a long tangent about BC and bullet selection and other stuff but my ADD kicked in and I spaced out while he sold the 280AI.

You going wood/blue or stainless/syn? In wood/blue both chamberings are out there including the '06. Syn/Stainless, the 270 and '06 are out there but the 280ai maybe a little wait..check online

I'm buying a Montana.

brymoore: I know the feeling......

I get the same look/feeling when my wife is explaining what's going on during an episode of "Gray's Anatomy";or is explaining how to do something I don't want to do.

People don't realize that ADD is not a defective condition......it is a filter,a defense mechanism designed to protect us from these people and excrutiating minutia.....

The 280AI is everything the 270 wants to be when it grows up. There are factory offerings avaliable ammo wise as well. Nosler does load the 280AI in their ammo line. I just cant get excited about a 270 anything and already running a 280AI makes the choice a no brainer for me.

Everyone is in a hurry to talk/flaunt speeds outta da gate,which is often close to moot,unless your interest is in actually putting powder burns on gates.

Because boolits matter more than headstamps,they fully control/define the speed at which they impact downrange(which is much different from launch speeds at the gate) and in conjunction with same,how much they drop/drift and how hard they slap schit downstream. So the most fruit is born by selection of the boolit that retains the most speed,in conjunction with a healthy initial launch and by giving boolit construction/integrity a thunk as well. It's a balancing act and suplizingly few are even aware of the cause/affects,fewer yet frost their own cakes. Long story short,the 270 can't hang. Nor the 25-06 or the 25-06AI and I shoot them all.

The 280AI is a great use of capacity in regards to COAL latitude and they are twisted right out of the gate,to afford nice things to be arranged by superior projectiles and both their initial and residual velocities. As an aside,it slips atmospheric conditions exceptionally. It will stay supersonic to a mile,retain a 2000fps impact velocity to the 725yd line,with but 3.4MOA of full value drift at same and easily has the ass to CRUNCH critters to 1000yds+. All of that with modest recoil,modest weight,modest over all length and very mild manners across the course.

CDS is junk and you are pissing up a rope there.

You've been led to water.

Scope recommendation?

KDK: Too late....

25,27,28, out to 500 or even 600 it doesn't matter.

But, if you plan on spinning a turret and like heavier longer BC bullets then 28 AI.

Would rather have the 25 over the 27 as well.

I bleed Leupold,but disfavor the 2.5-8x everywhere,doubly so on a long action. The CDS is the [bleep] Cough Silencer of turrets.

I've no qualm with a 6x42 taking me to 1000yds and beyond,do it often. If forced to slum a variable,it gets no better than the 3.5-10x 40mm 1" on a Killing Rifle and make mine non-A/O. Pass the M1 ele,leave windage go and get outta my way,because schit is going on.

As to the 25,27 and 28 being "equals"...I couldn't begin to shift my brain into a gear low enough to deduce same,nor could anyone else I know who guns 'em all. While case capacity do border on equal,boolits do not and therein lies the disparaging differences. NOTHING equals the 7mm's pile driving ass or ability to slip atmospheric and that's what bears the fruit. And don't think I don't love quarterbores...but they simply cain't hang.

'Tis a simplistic FACT,that not all things is equal.

Well damn, Bob after all that whining, you went ahead and did it anyway...

That put me another notch back as well

Wow! Bigstick and Bigwhoop agree on the VX-3 3.5-10x40mm! Feeling better about having a VX-3 3.5-10x40 waiting for the 84L Montana that UPS says will be arriving by the end of business Friday.

To you want to be part of an elite group of guys that everybody makes fun of?

All around rifle? I'm going to vote for some kind of 7mm - and I have had a long, fruitful love affair with the .270, among others. The Kimber in 280AI is very likely my next rifle...

Tom I ordered it just for you ... You guys misinterpret what i was saying....I never said the cartridge was bad....just that it was close to what I already had....

Hey I ain't closed minded and with a bushel of 270's,a 7 RM and a 7mm Mashburn Super,I am still not sure why I did it.....but I am not above recognizing a pretty unique rig when I see it...and that 84L Montana is a pretty neat outfit.. I could never buy a 7RM over the counter that light,for the same money,which is a big issue in the decision.

Back in the 80's we'd have killed for an outfit like that over the counter,and had to spend lots of time and cash building something close to it.

I have no idea when it will show....maybe not for 6 months....at least it will expand my limited horizons.

Seems to be a longer line forming now...

I suppose one could say stubborn comes in degrees whereas close-minded is an all or none proposition...

It will be worth the wait. If you give it time and shake out a bunch of loads you won't regret it. Have kinda settled on the lighter bullets...maybe that is just age pussification. If you do have any buyer remorse, you can count on me to be available to take it off your hands at a fair discount...no sense in paying that extra freight to sell it in Alaska...:)

Am interested to see if they can sell enough rifles to push some factory load interest.

Tom at my advanced age the weight of the outfit and moderate recoil sealed the deal.

Of course, I will hang onto my other stuff....I love that Mashburn to death!

Do'nt worry about selling a 280 AI should you ever want to. I have one built on a 700 adl wood stocked gun and somebody wants to buy that rifle all the time and most of them do not handload. I have never seen a "cat" so popular. Murf

Based on Kimber's website, it appears that the twist rate for the 280AI is 1 in 9.5" Is that good enough for the heavier 7mm bullets?

just to stay with the OP's thread somewhat--seconded on the 3.5-10 Lupy for the long action

yeah Bob, have a Browning FN mag action getting dusty--was thinking about a 7 for it. Maybe a 7WB so I can spend more money on brass...:)

I've decided on 280 AI with the 3.5-10x40 Leupold with an M1 elevation turrent.

Merry Christmas to me!

Great choice!

I get the 280Ai appeal... but a Lwt Mtn rifle in 270 is as classic as it gets.

I would (and did) go 270...

The 270 makes better safe queen beauties of wood and blue, IMO. That 84L Montana screams 280 Ackley like peanut butter and jelly..

Couldn't disagree more... but we all have our perspective.

Blooded my 270 Montana today on an elk... worked like a boring broken record.

Which bullet Mac, how far etc?

Dober

Dober, 150 Ballistic Tip. 100 yards. Shot her and she rolled about 80 yards downhill to the truck... just another meat shoot

270's are like gas station vanilla ice cream... 280AI's are like creamery fresh custard with chunks of fresh fruit and no preservatives.....

Brad, I'm still trying to decide which one to get.....grin

Yeah, right

There are more beaten up rifles riding in pickups, scabbards,and the gunracks of far flung BG hunting locations world wide,with rust,worn checkering or faded paint,and high body counts on several continents,chambered for 270 Winchester than there is,or ever will be,for the 280AI.It will never "catch up".

Like one experienced BG hunter form the past once said...With the 270 Winchester..... "you can mostly ignore energy tables,charts,TKO formula's,and potency equations..."

This may cause 280AI fans to reach for the Midol,but it is what it is....

Even though I've only used the 270 on one elk, I've seen it used on many elk. Never seen it not work.

I used to correspond with the late George Hoffman (originator of the 416 Hoffman which later became the 416 RM)... he was an African PH and real-deal hunter. He used the 270 exclusively on elk and told me he'd taken right around 50 with the cartridge. He never saw the need for more cartridge, and obviously he wasn't biased against large cartridges!

Brad, I am assuming you went for a behind the shoulder hit. Which is what I would do, if it came to a steeper angled or shoulder shot do you think that bullet would do the job? I am asking because of several reasons, one that I am really considering it for my 270 elk bullet load developement. Thinking longer ranges it would do well on elk and mule deer while still being a good one closer.

P.S. Dober your thoughts also if you don't mind.

Merry Christmas brymoore, you will be a happy camper with that combo.

I do understand that to the drippier 270 fans Jack is just a notch under divinity, but for the sake of balanced nostalgia I'll put in a plug here for the 7x57 as being just as applicable to that claim on history considering its play in Africa.

An open mind is a terrrible thing to waste.

Can I get an Amen?!

Amen! After years of notching tags, many guys begin to see the merit in tame, middle of the road cartridges. Deep down they knew it was all about putting a good bullet in the right place.
It just takes some to experience it than read about it. After all the fire belching cannons have been sold, what is left in the safe are cartridges that the hunter began with. The circle is now complete with even better optics, bullets and powder.

I also have the complete circle in my gun safe.

RD: If I didn't think it was a good cartridge, I wouldn't have ordered one.

You guys confuse my comments and views,placing the cartridge into perspective with the competition,for being closed-minded.

If I had not hunted and killed with a 280(140 at 3050),and a 7 Rem Mag (140 at 3250),many times,you might have a point.But I already know, without ever having owned one, exactly what it's gonna do.

I do think it's a perfect fit for that 84L.Seems that rifle will come in weight wise,about where my old and long gone Searcy 7 RM did; a bit over 7 1/4 pounds scoped.Not a bad place to be.

Bob, 84L Montana?

If so, you'll come in under 7lbs, unless you use a heavy leather sling... get a Butler Creek Mountain Sling... 3.5 oz's.

My 270 84L MT goes 6lbs 10.5 oz's, scoped (6x36 w/ Talley Lwts), sling and rounds.

Bigwhoop, you are right on target with that statement. It does'nt matter what you are toting, if you do'nt(can't) hit'em in the right spot with the right bullet,it matters not what cal. rifle it is. That is why I see more magnum rifles for sale here in Alabama. After getting the daylights kicked out of them and missing a few deer, these poor sould have to eat a bit of crow and admit that they can shoot a 270 a lot better than they could their beloved bazzoka. I think we all go through that stage of thinking that we need a Hardenkicking-Loudenboomer,and being "rifle looneys', we can justify them, but when the grey hair appears, they loose some appeal. I own both 270 win and 280AI and would'nt spit for the difference, but I built the AI because I just wanted to--is'nt that what us gun guys do? Sometimes the caliber discussion reminds me of the Ford vs Chevy dispute--hell, they will both take you to the grocery store, but we enjoy the debate.

In the 84L Montana, I could use 3 of the 4 calibers listed as my all-around Idaho rifle. I'm a 270 man but did think about pushing 180s out of an '06. What swayed me to the 280AI was pushing 160s at 3k fps. I think that's cool. I figure if some some off reason I don't like the 280AI, I'll sell it for a few hundred less and buy a 270.

Yeah Brad I didn't know exactly....I have yet to even see one in the flesh,so was interpolating..

I think you're really going to like that rifle.

I have been influenced.....

Besides...I have a large stash of 140 BBC's with which to administer Blunt Trauma (as JeffO says;love that term!)

We all have been!

How do you think I ended up with a 23" 270

It will get the Brad Abbreviation.....lop it 23....

23" gives you 12-1/2" of barrel forward of a 9-3/4" forearm... good balance visually and in the hand, and an overall firearm length of 43" prezactly.

This schit always cracks me up,because the girls are always at least 10yrs behind the times.

Weren't long ago that:
1) light barrels can't shoot
2) it was Hubble or bust
3) Zoom or bust
4) noone gave balance/handling a thunk
5) light done right was a "concession"
6) 300yds was a "long" shot
7) Yada,yada,[bleep] yada

Now a few of the gals are starting to see a glimmer of light and are acting like a puppy with 2 peters,thinkin' they've invented the wheel. Very humorous that a chambering "critique" makes all "equal" and the boneheaded Boobs ain't whistling a boolit that shines. Then it's the opposite and the Mantra goes "within' X-distance it don't matter". Why in the [bleep] would someone be toting a long action to start with and loading it with schit that pales to a s/a counterpart and then extrapolate same as a cartridge "critique"?!!? Too [bleep] [bleep] funny!

The stupidity is impossible to predict,other than to KNOW it's gonna be grand in volume and splendor.

Boxer!.......you're awake!