Thinking of getting a modern european bolt gun in 8x57. I know that to get the true potential you need to load for it and I plan on doing just that.
Whats to be expected in terms of performance on whitetail and hogs?
Wondering what the avail of things like 8mm bullets, 8x57 brass and what powders have you guys found to be solid performers?
going with a 4 groove 1:9.5 twist 23.6" barrel.

Looked for years for a clean and in good shape 98 Mauser sporterized or a sporter model. Never found one nice enough that I could afford. Few years a go a local gunshop sold out all its firearms inventory,they had a new M700 Classic in 8x57 for $350 so I bought it. Put a Redfield 1 pc base on it Redfield low rings an old K4 Weaver that has been a good one for me on it.Tuned the trigger. Started shooting it with 150 gr Hornady Spire Pts and R-15 about 2800 fps ,last go around IMR 3031 at near the same velocity. Just a sample of 2 whitetail does avg size. One went 40 uds shot thru the lungs and the other drt going thru the blade and spine exiting in frt of the far shoulder. You can't tell the difference in the job it did with a 30-06 or 308 using the same weight and brand of bullets. I've used all 3 with 150 gr Horn SP's, so I know. I have not used any of the weak loaded factory ammo for hunting with it yet,but I'm sure it works. I do have some of the 180 NBT's ,170 gr Sierras, and 185 Rem Corelokts to try in the future but as of yet haven't used them.I got a deal on a bag of brand new RP brass so it is what I am using with no complaints. I doubt you will be disappointed in the 8x57,its the German 30-06. Magnum Man

I killed my biggest deer with a 185 grain Corelokt. He went down, tried to get back up, and expired right there.

I think with modern bullets/ powders it can take the place of;
.30-06
.308
.338 Fed
.338 RCM
.358 Win
............
Just by switching to Euro loaded ammo you can get much better performance. They understand the difference of .318 - .323".

Thar said, the older Federal 170 gr. soft point ammo will just drop whitetails very well. About high end .30-30 performance.

I've been messing with the 8x57 off and on for 40 years and my experiences mirror MM's. 'Tain't no flies on it. The only drawback is the bullet selection isn't as varied as with the .30's.

Everybody pooh-poohs the factory 8x57 loads as being anemic. True, they aren't as hot as what one can safely hand load, but I have found them to be entirely satisfactory for deer hunting, and a lot more pleasurable to shoot. Anymore, I load my own to those levels out of choice. White tail deer aren't armor plated. If .30/30's and .35 Remingtons kill with aplomb, why shouldn't an 8mm bullet moving a couple hundred fps faster do just as well or better?

I have a beautiful sporterized, not Bubba-izzed, Mauser 98 8x57. Factory barrel, walnut stocked, turned bolt handle, d&t for scope, with the most awesome double set trigger. I shoot max loads of IMR 4064 with Remington brass and a 185 grain Core-Lokt bullets. Since the gun is a family heirloom from my wife's grandfather, I don't hunt with it but I should. It's a real tack driver, which I attribute to the great trigger set up and with a 185 grain bullet driven at about 2650 fps I have no doubt that it would kill just fine. I've never tried any other powder/bullet combination because the one I started with is so darn good.

If you want factory loads Prvi makes a good accurate 196 grain soft.If you want some good load data go to the Hodgon powder site and you will find plenty !

Or get a M38 Turkish Mauser with a long 29" barrel. Adds quite a few extra fps and really has no problem making a '06 blush. Only problem is toting around a rifle that weighs as much as a truck axle.

www.simpsonltd.com has several 8x57 rifles for sale.

I have the Rem Classic in 8x57. I won't post the load I use but with the 175gr Sierra, it's a death ray on deer.

I would get the Rem. 700 Classic. Everything here to do what you may want to do with the 8mm. I`ve reworked mine to some degree, including new bottom metal, piller, glass, floated barrel. Sierra bullets work best for me, with the 175 moving at 2850 fps,with 4320, and the 150s` at close to 3k with TAC.
Brass, bullets, powder, primers are in sufficent quality and quantity to satisfy all.
I`ve not killed hogs with mine, but deer sized game are a snap. I`ve not found mine wanting.
Good luck

In Europe the 8x57IS is loaded to higher pressure level than in US. In France some of us handload it.

150grs Speer2277, RWS case, RWS5341 primer or Rem 91/2, 49grs french Vectan powder close to 3031, around 2900fps at 45000psi

Rws SG 187grs, RWS case, Rws5341 primer, 52 grs Vectan SP7 (same as Big Game different lots), 2750fps at 49000psi

Just some exemples of what the old round can do. And can do better.

Dom

After messing with many calibers over several decades, I discovered the 8X57 less than two years ago. I picked up a neat Mexican Mauser sporter with an 8mm bbl. Last deer season I killed two deer of about the same size from the same spot. The similarities of both shots and bullet location was eerie. Both deer scented me and were vacating the vicinity when they made the mistake of pausing where I had an opening through the brush. The deer were quartering away from me and the bullets entered just behind the rib cage and exited between the front legs. Shot placement was almost exactly the same.

The first deer was shot with the Mex using a 170 gr Speer. Results....drt! The second was shot with a 308 Win. Using a 150 gr Hornady spire point. This deer ran about 25-30 yds and piled up. It was slightly more spooked and that may or may not have made a difference in how quickly it dropped. So, there is an opinion of the effectiveness of the 8X57 based on a data base of one!

Here is the Mex:







Wormy, I also have had a yen for one of the pre-war Mauser sporters, knowing that I would never pay the going rate for one of those masterpieces. I am cheap by nature and lean toward interesting �junkers� and rifles with �character�! This summer I found what the local knowledgeable rifle folks have described as a factory Mauser sporter knockoff. Many small gun shops and mom and pop operations in Europe would obtain mauser actions or convert military actions into cheap, durable copies of the factory sporters. This rifle has a small ring 98 action with no markings or serial number. It does not seem to be buffed or ground at all. Apparently, this was not uncommon when these actions were obtained from the factory for these builds, or at least that is what I was told.

Anyway, it is a very neat copy with express sights, double set triggers, shotgun style trigger guard, and typical slim Mauser sporter type stock. It had been roughly used and had seen better days. The good thing was that it was dirt cheap....the bad was that some bubba (my guess is after coming over here) had added white diamonds in the stock under the action and a rubber recoil pad. The recoil pad was good because the old girl kicks like a mule (it weighs about 6 pounds). The diamonds still give me the shivers when I look at it.

It also is an 8X57 and is being toted this season in hopes of adding to it�s character.






Get you an 8X57.....you won�t regret it!

I use Mausers in 6.5,7, and 8. I like em all.
Don't know if this qualifies as "modern", but my little carbine has accounted for a pile of dead deer and a bear using those anemic 170gr roundnose Remingtons.
With it's cute 18 inch barrel, recoil is a bit stout and it shoots pretty flames.
I just like this one.

I thought that in France you couldn't have any former military cartridges. Has that changed?

I have always found that military cartridge rule intriguing. When you consider the broad range of cartridges that have been used by various armed forces around the world, it seems to be a pretty odd rule. For example, was the 22 hornet included (it was USAF issue for a while)? I know the 300 winchester magnum gets some use in france and spain, but it is current US issue. What about the 45/70? What about the 12g? Then consider weapons that have served in irregular forces around the world. At what point is a cartridge considered sufficiently "military"?

I know that a lot of guys favor the lighter bullets, but I believe the 8x57 does its best with 200 grain pills. I use mostly Nosler Accubonds, and Partitions for hunting, and the Nosler 200 grain custom competition for play. I have three Blasers, and Sauer in 8X57, and load these to around 2500-2550 depending on which rifle. It is amazing how easy hits are out to 500 yards on steel targets with these bullets. They carry well, and still have a lot of smack when they get there.

We could always have with a special licence, they are not allowed to hunt with (must change soon) but we can use it for shooting, we have special competitions with former or actual military rifles (Mauser, Garand, SMLE, Mas36,49-56,G43, SigStg57, K31, AR15 and M16 clones, Sig551, Dragunov and FPK, Ak family rifles and VZ58, Fal, G3).

Before 1995 we were allowed to own full automatic on special licence too but the media and anti guns pressure took its toll and make this change.
It amaze me to see every day that the american citizen always think we don't own firearms...

Yes we do, around the town i live, in a 50km radius, i have five shooting ranges from 10 to 300m, one to 800m (1 time a month); driving one and half hour i can shoot in a great military camp, well known of the Marines who deploy in 6th fleet, where i can train to 1500m...plus an action shooting range where international police shooting competitions take place at 25km from home.

So, even if we need licences, we own military calibers and firearms, and, as already explained, i can hunt from the 1st of April to the 28 of february if my wallet is big enough, on wild free ranging game. In fenced area you can "hunt" (don't like the word here) all year long.

Regards
Dom

Could you post some pictures, and details of shooting sports in France, In another thread please. I find this very interesting.

Thanks

Ron

Years ago European gunsmiths cranked out custom Mausers much like modern American smiths crank out custom rifles based on M700s and M70s. They were the commonly available action. Many of these are quaintly referred to as "guild" guns. Many made it to this side of the pond in the hand in the hands of returning GI's who snagged them as "war trophies", or by way of Occupation troops after the war who had them purpose-built. (Quite often paid for with cigarettes, rations, gasoline, etc. "liberated" from government stores. That stuff was more valuable than currency in post-war Germany.) One of my father's gun loony buddies had several Mauser sporters built on trophy M98 actions during the period 1947-49 when stationed in Munich. All were similar in appearance to yours. He told me years later that each one cost him 10 cartons of Lucky Strikes, and that he found out later that he had been taken as the going rate wasn't that much.

I posted some in the Europe section on fire and in lever also but here some:
My daughter T-Bolt 22lr with steel and golf balls, the game is to shoot from 50 to 150m


Two medium/long range rig in an informal "sniper match" you notice the scope first plan...

Me and Steyr SSG04 shooting 300, 400, and 600m match. 300m and 400m target are 50m pistol ones.


Sort of F class rig used to 300,400, 600 and 800m on a French Unique action (single shot)

MiniHecate 338Lapua for a 1000m match (targets are 200m target)


338-408Cheytac custom cartridge and lathe turned copper alloy bullets (french)


My long range rifle, Haenel RS8 300WM waiting for S&B5-25x56, here testing Hornady Superformance to 600m and more.
[img]http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss198/Hunter4570/Photo8-1.jpg[/img]

These will give you an idea. But we have others...

Excellente!

Them are some sweet looking rifles!

Back to the OP, I really like the 185gr bullets in the 8mm Mauser. Good thumper for deer. Shot one at 175 yds a few years ago and again this year at 125 yds. The buck at 125yds I had to shoot through a 4" pine to get him.

[img]img[IMG]http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss33/otiscampbell62/DSCN6525.jpg[/img]http://[/img] This is one I picked up at a gunshow in FL earlier last month. Shoots so good with the old LYMAN receiver sight!

I shot my first deer, a nice eight point, with an 8mm Mauser that I borrowed from my BIL. He had it fitted out with a K4 and Fajen stock. One shot and the deer dropped right there.
I have wanted that Mauser ever since but he won't part with it despite having a Mod 70 in '06 that he uses exclusively now.

Today I was trying to hit that little black dot in the center of the orange, I guess I missed.

I might have to try that recipe, Corjack! Have you bothered to measure velocity? Do you use the 200gr accubonds also?

Yes, and yes. It is just a hair over 2500 fps.

That will kill stuff dead.

keep at it, perhaps you should try sorting your primers by weight?

It may tighten that group up a bit.

Here is the same load, with a slightly deeper seating depth, in a Sauer 202 Highland. It is a much lighter rifle than the Blaser R8, and has a 20 inch barrel, and an alloy reciever.

courtesy of Rem700 8x57

How will the Remington 185 Remington's work on elk or moose? I am starting to work on a Mauser in 8x57 I have with the purpose of it being my youngest son's elk rifle.

For that matter, how are the Hornady 195's on heavier game?

Shot my first few deer with an old k98 and Rem & Win factory 170s. Even with the light US loads, plenty of pop for a whitetail...

I have two. One is an as new Walther Model B Mauser I bought when I was living in Canada. I have yet to shoot it. It is the one on the right next to its 7x57 brother.



Last year I picked up this little Erfurt Mauser and have been shooting it with the 185 gr Remington bullet mildly loaded to 2400 fps due to its small ring/large thread design. It shoots very well and is just begging to be taken hog hunting.



Note that Hodgdon's indicates 180's at ~2700 fps at less than 50 kCUP with their CFE 223 powder. It looks to be a very good fit for the 8x57. Something I'll have to try.

Wow. I'd take that Erfurt. Looks like something that Finn Aagard would have. Only it's a little too pritsine for Finn.

Indeed! That is seriously one of the sweetest rifles I have ever seen!

what I believe is an late 1940's early 1950's vintage BRNO. My father bought this when he came to Canada, the BRNO because they were part of the design of the Bren gun (Brno-Enfield) 8x57 because "after a few years on the receiving end of the round I knew how good it was".

The rifle has been carried a fair bit but I have only one kill a bull caribou in the NWT barren lands, using a 200g partition handload. The rifle appears to have a "slow" barrel as the maximum load from the Nolser manual only generates about 2350 fps with the 200g partition. The rifle likes longer bullets; I have little luck with the 175g sierra or any of the 150g bullets. I am loading uo some of the 160 TTSX hoping the length of the mono-metal bullet will shoot well.

I am very impressed with the fit and finish. The front sight is on a sleeve which is soldered? sweated? onto the barrel, you canot feel the joint with your finger and barely feel it with a finger nail. On the photo below the seem is visible just back of the ramp for the front sight. GRF

If you have a long action Remington 700, I've got an extra 700 Classic 24" take-off barrel in 8x57 that I might be talked out of.

Jeff

My shade tree analysis of the Remington 185 Corelokt is that it will be virtually identical or slightly "harder" than the 180 grain .308 Corelokt. I melted the lead out of both and determined that the jacket of the 180 grain .308 was approximately 30% of the total weight of the bullet. The jacket was approximately 35% of the total weight of the 185 grain .323 bullet.

In other words, you cannot push the 185 grain Corelokt fast enough, out of an 8X57mm Mauser, to have it fail on a cud chewing animal.

I cannot vouch for the 195 Hornady, but they tend to be the toughest of the cup-n-core bullets. I suspect they would be at least as capable as the 185 Corelokt.