Which one do you think is the best rifle, take price out of the equation. I am thinking about buying one or the other for my daughter in .243. She doesn't need a youth model. Please do not suggest another brand, this is what I'll buy. I have a 700 ADL that is incredibly accurate with Core-Lokt. I realize it just might have been luck to get an ADL that is so accurate.

I think the Weatherby/Howa is the better rifle, but the Remingon is significantly lighter. Short of spending a lot of money, the Howa will be a little better made, probably have a better barrel, and has a better extractor and safety. Greater weight may be a disadvantage or an advantage - depends how much walking she'll be doing. Remington is the best basis for a rifle that you want to customise a little, though there are quite a few options for the Howa now, too.

Personally, i'd get the Howa/Weatherby.

I would reccomend the vanguard. I have had good luck with them. Never really made friends with remingtons. Just this coal miners opinion.

Weight is not an issue, the only carrying involved is the walk from the truck to the deer stand. I prefer a heavier fifle for the recoil attenuation. So is the Vanguard made by the people who make Howa?

Yep. Not quite identical. Vanguard has a nicer stock, different safety, fluted bolt. But it is a Howa 1500, and it shoots like a Howa 1500 - which is to say very well. Over the years there must have been something like half a dozen American brands selling relabelled Howas!

Under Remington's present ownership I would not buy anything from them. They have ruined Marlin quality as well.

I plan on picking up an S2 in .240 Weatherby when they become available, so I'll let you know then. It should go well with the Vanguard .223 and Howa 7WSM I already have. I do wish Weatherby would offer the 7 Weatherby in the Vanguard.

in that scenario, vanguard all the way.

vanguard gets my vote.

Are the new vanguards any different in shape than the old vanguards??
Will they fit the same old aftermarket stocks? I have a McMillan and when I can I would love a 257 wby mag or a 240 wby and really wanna put it in this McMillan if I keep it.

Vanguard 2, or even the original vanguard over Remington. True there are way more gizmos and upgrades for the 700, but out of the box the vanguard is just better.

Let your kid pick them up and decide. I really doubt one is better than the other. Don't care for Asian rifles myself though. mtmuley

either will do what you want... i like them both and own them both...

Either one is fine. I prefer the Vanguard stock trigger. The Vanguard will be heavier, though. I own/have owned both.

Never owned a Remington 700 but have several model 70,s
also have a new Vanguard S2 in 270 winchester. The Vanguard is
a little lighter than all 3 model 70,s. Not as light as a Ruger
M77 in 270 WSM. But it,s the most accurate of the 5. Also
it has the best factory trigger of the 5. I like the 6 round
magazine. Need all the shells I can get. That extractor throws
shells farther than rest. Recoil is very manageable.

I own a Vanguard S2 in 257wthby and a Rem 700 in 243. Even taking the calibers out of the equation, if one of them had to go tomorrow it would be the 700. The Vanguard is more accurate, has a better trigger, and overall I feel more confident in my abilities when I'm shooting it.

As Craig Boddington wrote on the Weatherby Vanguard being just another Howa..Not...

Weatherby Vanguards may use Howa actions, but the rifles are built to Weatherby specs. Chamberings are not the same, barrels are not the same, stocks are not the same

I sure love mine and if I had the bucks,I would buy another one in 338 Win Mag.

Jayco

+1 vanguard though my experience has been with older vanguards. In our area sportsmans warehouse had them going for $389 and I think you could spend 2x as much and not get a much better rifle.

It seems that every time in recent years I have bought a Remington there has been a problem. The last 2 I bought the primers cratered from the firing pin hole being to big in the bolt.I would like to say Remington but I can't. I would buy a Vanguard.

The primer cratering thing is something to do with a new bolt face design...its not the problem it appears to be...that being said though, we got a letter from Remington ( at the shop I work part-time in..) explaining it because so many people had noticed what you saw...including myself...looks for all the world like a sign of excess pressure, when all it is is a sign of excess remington engineeering....

That being said..The new Vanguard is a better dollar value. Period.

I'll take the Howa/Vanguard all day.

I smell bovine effluence in that letter, ingwe, and I'll bet you do, also. BS is BS, on stationery or not.

Remington wouldn't do that...would they???


Where is swampy when you need him?

I think he's gone.Probably expounding over on the Ruger forum.

Given the price and quality, the Vanguard is hard to beat at the moment. Remington's declining quality standards don't support it's selection. The last ADL I handled reminded me of some crude Eastern bloc firearm unworthy of ownership.

Although the trigger on my youth Vanguard Series 1 is creepy, I can have it tuned or just bolt on an aftermarket trigger if I so desire. The stock and machining quality on the Vanguard bolt/barrel/action is good although the roll marks are butt ugly. The youth stock is stiff fiberglass and not injection molded junk. All in all it's a good option. I only paid $325 for a combo that included both a quality youth and junk adult stock.

Powder Burn, You might want to check that youth stock again. If that rifle came with two stocks not a spacer, the youth stock is a painted wood stock.

You may be right as the one I looked at was the regular stock and it was synthetic. I was simply told it came with a youth stock too. It carried the shorter barrelor otherwise I would have thought it was a regular vanguard. It wouldn't have mattered to me as the youth would more or likely made it's way to ebay as at 6'4 with long gangly arms I would have little use for a short stock. I did like the shorter barrel though.

You could buy the carbine. It is the same rifle with the older adult stock. I would not but the youth anymore unless it was for someone that will be of smaller stature for life because now it only has one stock and a spacer that you can put in between the stock and recoil pad. They look like crap imho.

As much as I do love my 700's, unless weight is an issue, I would definitely select the Vanguard over the 700.

I bought a S2 in 7mm rm this fall and killed three deer with it. I also ordered a mcswirly for it at Christmas. The fit and finish and the machining on the vanguard is so far above the 700s ive had it Isn't even funny. The only 700 I have left is a 243 youth model that I bought for my wife and that is the only reason we still have it. It has a rough chamber and raises spot on the bolt face. Vanguard all the way.

Vanguard all the way.

Bought her a Weatherby but in youth stock. When we placed it side by side with a Remington there was no comparison needed.

Good Luck with it.

Two of my buds bought 3 Vangaurds. The triggers sucked on all 3 and all of them shot like crap. I can see one bad example of any brand, but after 3 duds there's no way I'd take the gamble.

One of my buds took both of his to a smith to have Timney's put in and both bedded. When he got them back one shot around an inch and the other shot 1.5-2" with everything he tried. Sent one down the road and kept the other for his son to hunt with. He was pissed to say the least, lessons learned....

Hopefully yours will be a totally different story.

Have a good one,

loder

I bought my son the Vanguard , it will put 3 touching with factory federal ammo , fits him well and he loves it. I'd do it again, no regrets.

My daughter's has an excellent trigger and shoots great.

I have a soft spot for Rem's. Light too! But those new VG's look solid. A tad heavy IMO though....

the other day...I bought some range brass (257wby!, super cheap too)

I KNEW it was shot from a remmy.

How ?

the crater around the primer, just like my Bud's .243 Rem.

"just saying"

OTOH, the Vanny plastic Stocks are....horrible IMHO. SO figure on stock upgrade cost.

I just bought my son a new original Vanguard from Cabela's for $340 in 30-06. He loves the rifle, the injection molded stock will be replaced with a B&C Medalist. I also handled the new Series 2 Vanguards and was very impressed with them.

I have a 700 ADL .270 synthetic stock I bought new for $325.00 in 2004 at Cabela's. It came with a cheap Pine Ridge 3x9 scope. It also had open sights which you can't hardly get on a rifle anymore and I like them. Anyway the ADL was incredible accurate out of the box. I zeroed it to shoot 1" high at 100 yards and would shoot a cloverleaf. My brother-in-law has a Weatherby Mark V and a Winchester Model 70 with expensive Leupold and Nikon scopes, and when we shot together the ADL blew away his rifles in the accuracy dept. But things have changed. After experiencing a nightmare with Marlin over a new 30-30 I bought for my son I will not purchase a Remlin again. I think they are crap. After taking the Marlin apart, putting in a happy trigger and using 800 and 1200 grit paper on just about every part of the rifle it is a very nice rifle. Factor in the cost of the trigger and all of the man hours put in to it, it is not worth it. After comparing Vanguards side by side with Remingtons we purchased the Weatherby. Worse case scenario is I will have to drop a Timney in it which I feel confident I can do after installing a happy trigger in the Marlin. Then we will have a very fine rifle that in my opinion is a good as many rifles costing twice as much. By the way the Vanguard looks like it has controlled round feed as opposed to push feed. Is that true?

Thanks for all the responses.

I have a 700 ADL .270 synthetic stock I bought new for $325.00 in 2004 at Cabela's. It came with a cheap Pine Ridge 3x9 scope. It also had open sights which you can't hardly get on a rifle anymore and I like them. Anyway the ADL was incredible accurate out of the box. I zeroed it to shoot 1" high at 100 yards and would shoot a cloverleaf. My brother-in-law has a Weatherby Mark V and a Winchester Model 70 with expensive Leupold and Nikon scopes, and when we shot together the ADL blew away his rifles in the accuracy dept. But things have changed. After experiencing a nightmare with Marlin over a new 30-30 I bought for my son I will not purchase a Remlin again. I think they are crap. After taking the Marlin apart, putting in a happy trigger and using 800 and 1200 grit paper on just about every part of the rifle it is a very nice rifle. Factor in the cost of the trigger and all of the man hours put in to it, it is not worth it. After comparing Vanguards side by side with Remingtons we purchased the Weatherby. Worse case scenario is I will have to drop a Timney in it which I feel confident I can do after installing a happy trigger in the Marlin. Then we will have a very fine rifle that in my opinion is a good as many rifles costing twice as much. By the way the Vanguard looks like it has controlled round feed as opposed to push feed. Is that true?

Thanks for all the responses.

vanguard is push feed

It has a M16 extractor. I think the vanguard has higher quality control then any Remington probably ever built. It does weigh substantially more and the options to customize it are limited compared to a 700. Previously the Vanguard trigger left a lot to be desired but theyhave improved it. .

I,m very happy with my Weathery Vanguard S2 in 270 Winchester
it,s also Stainless. Shoots tighter groups than the 3 Model
70,s I own. Likes 140gr Gamekings or Accubonds behind RL22.
I got to order some 150gr bullets to give them a try. Has
a Nikon 2X8X32 monarch scope on it.

I purchased a Vanguard Stainless 30.06 it never shot great but it was acceptable. My remington ADL outshot it. I just purchased a Rem ADL stainless 30.06 and haven't shot it so can't say but heard the x mark pro triggers break so may have to replace it, guess time will tell? One thing I noticed on the Vanguards is that the bolt opens is two stepped? It opens at a point and sounds like it is unlatched but requires it to move up another 1/4 of inch to open it? I could see myself in a hurry for a second shot and possible short stroke it?

Vanguard 2, all the way

My Vanguard is not the series II so I don't know about their weight. But I give the edge to Vanguard for quality of manufacture but mine is noticeably heavier feeling than a 700 ADL.

So,if light weight matters get the ADL.
Also, your daughter may have a preference in the stock designs. Both good rifles for the money.