Before we get into this, I want to clearify that I am not part of some militant group planning on terrorism nor do I plan on shooting people, unless of course there is another revolution. Then as a "Patriot" I would fight.

I have always been fasinated with Snipers and their rifles. I have read as much as I could on famous snipers like Carlos Hathcock and others. Carlos Hathcock did much of his work with a m70 Winchester 30-06. I think even with gunsmithing tuning, this is an inexpensive yet effective sniper rifle. I have read that there were many snipers who used ordinary sporting rifles in war as sniper rifles. When I was truck driving, I talked to a driver who was a retired Marine sniper. He said his last rifle was a Browning A bolt in 30-06. He used it in Panama (or who knows for sure on that one)

Probably most any rifle in my safe would work as a sniper rifle but I want to put together a good shooting sniper rifle of sorts for less than 1500 bucks including scope. I want as much accuracy as I can and effective killing power to 800 yards or more. I am a seasoned reloader so the skys the limit for load versitility.

I want a rifle that is mild enough to shoot from any position without worrying about recoil.

Here are my caliber choices so far: 270 Winchester (I have shot enough 270's to know they are accurate and flat shooting and recoil little. Some of the new 140gr bullets are accurate and have high ballistic potential.)

Others I have thought about include: 270 WSM, 308 Win., 30-06, 25-06 (really thinking about this one) 6.5-06, 264 Win. 300 WSM, 7mm-08, 260 rem (might need a closer looking at).
Any others I should look into?

I want a med weight barrel that is easy to pack. I will probably only "snipe" feral cats, coyotes, rock chucks, distant rocks. It will unlikely be used on game. I think 10lbs with scope and ready to go is my weight limit.

Now for scopes: I think 6.5-20 w/ target adj. is about the range I am looking for. Leupold will probably be what I go with. I wasn't thinking about Mil Dot reticles but maybe I need to look into them.

For the Rifle, I just can't make up my mind. A good trigger (even after market if nessesary) is a must.

I really don't want to be into the rifle for more than 1500 bucks with the scope.

What route should I go? Thx

CM

P.S. I have always wanted to get my hands on a Springfield 03 A4. I love history and there is lots of it behind this sniper rifle.

Rem 700 in .308 or .300 Win. for $800ish and a Leupy Mark VI M1 3.5-10.

How about this ??

6BR or if you are really onto it then a 6BR Dasher.

I'd say a .260 rem or .308. The b/c of most .264 bullets is pretty high, a 140 grainer might even be going faster than your .277 140 grain out to the 800yds or so you mentioned. All that with less recoil. .308 would be cool though, give ya a real sniper feel.

it doesn't appear to me you want a "sniper rifle" you just want a long range rifle. you are correct though that most rifles can be used as a "sniper rifle" depending on the rules of engagement.

My "sniper rifle" is a 700 VS in .308. Heavier than you are looking for, but when I'm having a good day it will put 5 MatchKings into a group I can cover with my palm at 600 yards.
Mark

LTR 308 and Leupie 3.5-10x.................

CZ Varmint in 308. They are extremely accurate and all you have to do is put a goo scope on it. Also the single set trigger is a super aid to accurate shooting. the rifle is under 600 and you may be able to find a used one for even less.

I'm not sure if you're looking for a Tactical rifle or a long range sporting rifle.

In either case, you might want to take a look at Tikka's. The T3 Tactical in .308, sells for a little more than you had budgeted.



However, if I had the same need, I would buy a Tikka T3 .308, in the heavy barrel version (not Tactical) in either matte black or stainless. The action is the same, the barrel on the T3 heavy is 23 3/8" versus 20" on the Tactical version, and both versions weigh just a touch over 7lbs. The T3 heavy also does not have the adjustable stock feature of the Tactical version.

Here's some examples of the going prices for the Tikka:

Tikka .308 heavy stainless
Tikka .308 heavy matte black

my sniper rifle is for all purposes a left handed pss with a leupold 3.5x10 scope. it is on its third barrel. only free federal 168 match ammo goes down it's bore. i am "required" to shoot it three times a month in mandatory training for work ,but i can shoot it more if i want. OP ammo is always the best.

Combineman,
Here's a photo similar to the combination Stick suggested, already set-up. A few more bucks than your stated limit but still not too bad. You probably could put it together yourself and save a some money by shopping around for the components. web page

That's overpriced at $1679.00. They are hoping for an uninformed shopper to bite.

You can get more than that for less $$$.

LTR .308, $650 (or less if you look)
30mm Leupold 3.5-10x40 M1, $600 (or less)
Badger Ord base $120
Badger Ord Rings $120

If you opt a lighter base/rings setup, say PRW, you can get them for about $100 for base and rings. You can be up and running for 1300-1400 easily. It isn't too tricky to find good complete rigs (PSS, LTR, VS etc, with Leupold or similar) for sale for $1000-1200.

Combineman,
I've got the LTR in 308, with a Loupie 4.5x14. All it needs is an elevation turrent for long range shooting. I'm shooting Sierra 168 gr. MatchKings with a max charge of Re 15, and getting .5 groups for 5 at 100 when I do my part.
I've been itching to try this rifle at longer ranges but my shooting range is only 100 yards.
Virgil B.

What's an LTR?

My mind is so full of acronyms, I can't think straight anymore.

Thx

CM

It is a Remington 700P(police) LTR (Light tactical rifle).

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/700pltr.htm

Here's a Winchester Stealth .308, Badger base, ARMS rings, 10X Super Sniper, Harris bipod, Williams floorplate, for a little over a grand.

You could easily sell the Tasco for $250-275 if not to your liking.

http://www.snipershide.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=005269;p=1#000002

Here's a good one.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=27726211

thx to all for your input.

CM

Another question:

I see the LTR is offered in 300 SAUM. IS this an accurate round? Is the law enforcement agencies beginning to use the SAUM's or WSM's?

I have never had much use for a SAUM or WSM for hunting but have looked at them as possible target rounds for a bit more HP.

CM

I keep forgetting things, bear with me.

I bought a Weatherby Vangard 300 Weatherby a few years ago. (It wears Weatherby's custom aluminum bedded stock, not the rubbermaid stock that comes on the rifle) I hunt with it some but it I mostly shoot distant rocks with it. The trigger is good and accuracy outstanding with some bullets especially heavy bullets.

I loaded up some 190/200gr Boattails from Hornady and Sierra (non MAtch) over a moderate charge of Rel 22 for around 2800fps. They shoot sub 1/2MOA when I do my part. The less than max loads are not too punishing for the first box or so. They do get a bit obnoxious for extended shooting sessions. I have been shooting this rifle a lot as my "for now" sniper rifle. I have lots of confidence in it but want a lighter recoiling rifle for more shooting. I have put nearly 600 rounds through the Weatherby and I don't want to wear it out. It is a good hunting rifle.

I am also concidering another Vangard with custom stock in 308 Win as a matching rifle. I know the Howa Action is not American Made but I have owned five rifles on this action and they shoot good enough to make me take notice.

CM

you could very well roll your own 6.5x284 also.
$300 action
$500 at pacnor
$200 hs/remmy stock and bipod
looking for glass, priceless.
woofer

CM:

If I were you, I think I'd call"BS" on your trucker friend's story. I find that one more than a little hard to believe. An A-Bolt coming out of the Quantico Armory?!?!? I don't think so. Never saw it in my Marine Corps.

Anyway, back to your rifle...

You could have the most successfully used sniper rifle in history for your $1,500: the Mosin-Nagant. Here's one of a few at GunsAmerica.com: http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976523519.htm

Good luck,
RSY

There's a reason the Mosin-Nagant is not seen in todays benchrest/tactical shooting world.

Well, I hear BS every day. It is difficult to decide truth from error when one is learning. It could very well have been a BS story about the A bolt.

In my book buy Small Arms of the World by Smith and Smith, it shows a 1942 model 1903 A4 Springfield w/ 10X Unertl scope. I would scrounge big bucks together if I could to get one. I think it is one of the neatest rifles I've seen.

I really want an American Made rifle (hense my hesitation to build one on a Weatherby Vangard action). In the wake of our endevors around the world in the name of Freedom, I just would like to build up a good American Made Sniper Rifle.

Thx, for your comments and advice.

CM

The .308 is a fine round for learning the long range ropes. It's easy on the shoulder and pocketbook. It will shoot accurately to the yardages you mentioned as long as you use some "slippery" bullets. Ifn' I was in your shoes I'd gather a slightly used Rem 700 PSS or VS put a Lupy Mark IV 3.5x10x40 Tactical on top using Warne Maxima rings and a Farrell 20 minute base. I can like the 26" PSS over the 20" LTR when it comes to shooting past 600yds.

The above set-up would come in under the price you quoted and do everything you want.

X-VERMINATOR

Savage 10FP LE2B just under $1000 in a McMillian stock. As the stock drops, the price drops.

www.savagearms.com

LE2Bs sell for around $800.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/savage_10fple2b.html

....another vote for the Remington 700 LTR in .308. Mine is set up with a Warne Tactical base, Leupold PRW rings and Leupold 3.5-10x40 Long Range M3. Federal Match runs .4 MOA @2600 fps. Handload of 46 gr./WW748/Federal case/CCI Benchrest primer/2.790 LOA/165 Hornady SST/2710 fps is shooting .35 MOA. Bought the rifle and scope used...whole thing was $1300.00.
The short barrel is so much better balanced than the 26" tubes....
Bob

True enough. But numbers do not lie; and quantity does, indeed, have a quality all its own.

Having said that, my "recommendation" was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I only cited it because it truly is amazing how people could do so much with a system that we, today, largely hold in contempt and consider inferior.

Today, you're best bet from a factory is probably the Winchester Stealth in .308 Win. It represents serious quality and bang for your buck. They MSRP for $800, so could likely be had for significantly less at retail. That leaves the rest of your $1,500 for a decent piece of glass and, perhaps, a bipod.

As for the glass, don't go bonkers with objective lens size and magnification. They folks that actually do this for a living rarely utilize anything over 10x or bigger than 40mm.

RSY

I just saw this question. My feeling is, I think it's telling that the 2005 Remington catalog shows them beginning to chamber rifles in .300 WSM. To me, that's a big "Adios" to their own SAUMs. But you did say you reload, so if you did fall in love with one you could definitely get by.

Also, I see in your first post that you're very interested in the .25-06. FYI, I recently saw that Winchester is offering their Stealth II in .25 WSSM. I'm not familiar with the ballistics, but it may be something you'd want to check out.

RSY

I'm with RSY here. There are so many Bullshitters out there it can be pretty confusing though. The only thing I've noticed about the difference is that the real ones tend to not talk to much about it.......


I'm no sniper of any sort but do a bit of long range competition and have collected more "sniper" type rifles than I want to let my wife know about. Remingtons are probably the Conventional Wisdom choice. They usually shoot pretty well and hold their value. I currently have a 308 Sendero in an AI stock and a LTR 308 in a Folding AI stock.
But for starting out I might just opt for one of the Savage Tacticals or even one of the Ruger HB's with the 2 stage trigger. I had a Savage Tactical that shot as well as my Sendero and better than my LTR for a good bit less money. The new ones with the Accu-Trigger are even better. Most of the Savages shoot extremely well. I had a Ruger Stainless HB that had my favorite factory trigger in a American Built rifle. I really like Ruger's 2-Stage target trigger, I hate every other Ruger trigger - the 2-stage is as good as their normal triggers are bad. My Ruger shot 3/4" or sometimes better at 200yds and I shot a bunch of 500 Meter silhouette with it. It was my favorite Ruger ever and sometimes you can find them for under $600, I shouldn't have sold it for less than that.
I'm a dyed in the Wool Euro-Scope fan but for what you want I would reccommend you look into the new Leupold MK IV PR 4.5-14 with the side focus. SWFA has them for $699 but I bought mine for less than that. The 4.5-14 has the new brighter index-matched glass, target knobs, side focus and a Mil-Dot reticle. I think it's a lot of scope for the money (It's on my AI-LTR).
Your caliber choice should be a 308 Winchester. Others will work but there is so much good inexpensive ammo and components out there it will be far the easiest to feed. There is also loads of good training/trajectory/ballistics available for the 308 and so you will find it much easier to really "learn it" compared to other chamberings.
Good luck, a really accurate heavy-barreled 308 is one of the funnest guns to shoot and play with. Enjoy it...............DJ



pssst......Don't tell my wife.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Combineman,

Bought my Rem 700P for $700 bucks. Shop around and find the deals. The 700P is about the best bang for the buck in a sniper type rifle. Mine is sub moa and sometimes when I'm doing everything right, sub .5 moa.

I went and had it bedded in a McMillan A5 and lost a smidge in accuracy. I think it's due to my getting used to the A5. Dept also switched to tactial instead of gold medal and lost a little there too.

Go the remington's website and take a peek. There are several different calibers to choose from.


Mac

Try www.snipercountry.com for a lot of information about equipment, loads, practice regimens and lots more. The Duty Roster Archive is loaded with endless hours of reading. Many of the folks who participate in that site are police or military snipers, while others are ordinary folks who simply like precision shooting. Many of those folks are active in F-class rifle competition. Good luck with your project!

Thx to all for your advice and comments.

I might add one more question concerning the LTR .308: Why does remington use the 1:12 twist than the standard 1:10? Does it have something to do with barrel life? Is it something to do with bullet drift caused by fast RPM's at long range? Does the rifle still stabilize heavy 168gr or heavier bullets or are 150's better suited?

I looked at the Savage tactical 308 package and they run around 1600bucks. Some posts above thought I could get into a LTR Remington package for around 1100-1200bucks.

I am going to make some phone calls on some prices.

Again, thx to all.

CM

i dont want to hijack the thread. just thought i would mention
guns america. ltr in 223. vias, stone ground trigger, bedded with a burris BD scope in 8-32 (SF). $1250. seemed like a decent deal.
woofer

my 1/12 .308 shoots fine with 190gr Matchkings, but thats probably about as heavy as possible. I think 1/12 is the optimum twist for the 168gr Matchking.