My newest dilema. Chosing between a 243 and a 25-06. The gun would be used for coyote, antelope and northern Minnesota deer which average 140 to 240 lbs. I have larger caliber guns but I am just looking at something different.

Either will do you fine, find a gun that you like and then select the chambering.

Dober

A 243 twisted either 1-9 or 1-8 for shooting the 105gr bullets.

Eee-nee-mee-nee-my-nee-moe..........

For the game you plan on using it for, you can`t really go wrong choosing either one imo.

A suggestion....If one of the larger calibers that you have right now does and could overlap any hunting duties with the 25-06, then go with the 243.

My next larger caliber is a 270 win. and next smaller one is a 22-250

257 Roberts

I'd just use the 22/250...and save the coinage....grin

Put it towards more hunts.

Dober

25-06... because everyone deserves to own at least one good quarter-bore... although I prefer the 257 Wby Mag.

not sure how comfortable I would be when that big 10 pointer walks up and I am holding a 22-250

when I saw the thread that was the first thing that popped up in my head...the best of both worlds!!!

I have both and prefer the 25-06. The .243 just will not run a 100 grain bullet at 3300+ fps.

Dink

+1 - got both, for deer I pref the 25.

When long range is an issue, pick a bullet and work backwards. My guess is you'll end up with a 6.5mm instead at the moment.

Good point, get a 223.

What ranges do you expect? If on the shorter side I'd go 243, if longer 25-06.

This is just me, but I've seen enough deer/lopes/elk and black bears taken with a 22/250 and a Swifto to know I'd be incredibly comfy.

Dober

....A 270 = 0.277" in diameter. A 22-250 = 0.224".......Settle right down the middle between the two.

0.277" minus 0.224" = 0.053" divided by 2 = 026.5"

0.277" minus 0.26.5" = a 25/06
0.224" plus 0.26.5" = a 25/06

Buy a 25/06!!

Make sure to do lots of math involving your decision.

Have both....cant say Ive ever seen much difference between the two as far as killing power.

...I do all the time

Mn deer woods is nothing farther than 200 yards and that would be shooting across a swamp. Most shots are 100 and less. For antelope it would be longer ranges. Ha Ha Steelhead but my "old school" hunting buddies would toss me out of camp if I showed up with my AR! dhg.. I had a 260 and sold it recently. I got offered good money so I let it go. A 257 Rob would be nice but hard to find one in my $$$ range that I want to spend. My choices ar still gonna be the 243 or 25-06 because I haven't had one of them before.

If you already have a 270 and 22-250, i can't see a hole!

Why get either? Get a AR in 6.8 and rock on.

I vote 25-06 if you don't decide to stand pat with what you have already. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with using the 270 for coyotes, antelope and deer.

I didn't have any qualms using a .308 to take out a pit bull while deer hunting.

Some of you guys are missing the point. Whether there's a legitimate hole in the collection or not is irrelevant.

Repeat after me: More is ALWAYS better...

I tried a 25/06 one year back in michigan but couldn't find it any more effective on deer than my .243 so quickly sent it down the road. It wasn't nearly as accurate as my .243 either but I doubt that had anything to do with the chambering.

I can't really see that much difference between the 25/06 and the 270 so I would opt for the 243 because you can run 55s faster than your 22/250 and 100gr for whitetails.

Thanks Josh, thats the kind of info I am looking for.

OK, if you guys are going to get all logical about it (emotional rifles decisions are far more fun) here's the basic difference:

Load both rifles with similar 100 grain factory loads and you'll find the 25-06, zeroed at 200 yards, hits about 5.4 in. low at 300 yards with nearly 1500 ft. lbs of energy.

The .243, identically zeroed, hits about 7.5 in. low at 300 yards with roughly 1100 ft. lbs of energy.

With pronghorn in the equation, given just those two choices, my nod goes to the 25-06 -- but I'd still try to talk you into a .257 Wby. death ray.

Yeah but how does the 6mm rem do???

The 25-06 is going to be flatter shooting with the same bullet weights at ranges out to 500 yards. I see the 25-06 as a more versatile caliber being a capable light elk caliber as well as a heavy varmint rig. The 243 shines more as a deer/varmint caliber and can sling the high BC bullets that are available for it at longer range than the 25-06. Past 500 yards the 243 becomes more viable than the 25-06 simply because of those sleek 105 bullets. For most hunters that is not an important factor, however.

I own both. I can not say I notice any difference in killing power between the two. My 25-06 kicks noticably more, but is still very mild. It is very accurate and seems to prefer 100gr bullets. My 243 is set up as a long range rig. I now almost exclusively hunt with it because I like poking holes in critters at 600 yards. I also appreciate it's low recoil.

For short range stuff (-500yards) the 25-06 is more universal, but kind of overlaps the 270.

I think your will have overlap with your 270 if you go 25-06. If you are going long range, you will have to master the turrents, so the balistic advantage or disadvantage become foder for debate and personal preference.

Unless you have a fast twist 22-250, I would suggest that the 243 using good bullets will fit the bill nicely. A 243/80 gr. Barnes Bullet at 3300 fps is an awesome combo.

GB

The numbers you quote for the 25-06 pretty much mirror what his 270 will already do. The 270 with a 130 gr. bullet is 30 gr. heavier, has a higher B.C, and is only 200 fps slower at the muzzel. I would go 243 as a fill-in-the-gap rifle.

The .25-06 is all anyone ever really needs for deer, whether they admit it or not.

Prior to WWII, a 30-30 was all one needed for ELK. But, I'll avoid the can of worms.

260 Rem.... for all your hunting needs.

I have owned or still own and used a 243, 6mm rem 257 Roberts 25/06 and 257 weatherby
the 25/06 is probably the best compromise of all with the 257 Roberts being a very close second choice,I can,t think of a single time when using any of that range of calibers that having a 25/06 in hand would not have served me very well

Get a 6-06. Then AI it.

Best of boaf a 'dem.

With the OP already owning a 22-250 and a 270, it would easily be the 243 in this case.

The 243 will do things that the 22-250 can't (starting with 55 gr bullets and going up to 100 even without "special" twists, i.e. using a factory tube), and the 270 can take over where the 243 leaves off (starting with 110 bullets and up to 150), leaving no gaps.

The same can't be said about the 25-06. The 25-06 is just too close to the 270, and pretty much redundant. The 243 isn't really close or overlapping either a 22-250 or a 270. In other words, the 25-06 doesn't set itself far enough apart to be meaningful, or to fill a role that the 270 can't. The 243, on the other hand, fills a gap, without overlap on either end.

Personally, for the game and distances talked about, I'd set up with a good 55 gr bullet in the 22-250, a 70 or 80 gr in the 243, and a good 130 gr in the 270. Not much that you couldn't do, and not have to worry about different loads, changing zeroes, etc.

My 243 is one of the most fun guns I have, out of a stable of 204, 223, 270 and 30/06. It's cheap to shoot, light recoil, very very accurate and easy to shoot.
The 25/06 is a fantastic round and it's only fault, if you can call it a fault, is that it very nearly duplicates 270 performance on deer size animals.

My .02 cents is that if you reload get the .25-06 and if you don't get the .243. .243 ammo is cheaper and more readily available. I have both and my .25-06 is a death ray on deer. The .243 is more of a predator cartridge for me.

THAT is the primary appeal of any of the hot quarter bores. It's not a matter of cartridge overlap. It's a matter of emotional attachment!

It's hard to imagine any chambering fitting your bill better than a 25-06.
If you are serious about double duty as varmints/big game you may want to consider some quick detachable mounts and a big game scope and a varmint scope.

Short action or long action? Personally I can't see going to the long action unless using a belted mag case. The .243 through .308 just offers so much in a compact package.

Just go 240 Weatherby and have the best of both cartridges.

25-06

.243 will do all that needs doing to a deer.

Can't see needing a flat shooting rifle for 200yds...

A lightweight 243 sounds about right.

My 25-06 will out shoot either of my 243's I perfer it for antelope and deer. It shoots a little flater and is better for longer distances than the 243.

The man said pronghorn were on the menu. That easily creates justification for shots longer than 200 yards.

I do reload so I can make any sort of mild or hot load for either caliber. I do appreciate all of your comments... and now it might end up being a coin flip after reading all of your posts. It sounds like neither of them (243 or 25-06) will be a bad choice. The 243 will "fill the gap" and the 25-06 kinda mirrors my 270 when it come to the heavier 25 cal. bullets and the lighter 270 end. My friends son has a 25-06 and has shot some damn nice deer D.R.T.... including a 200+ lb 13 point whitetail. I only take "killing" shots so busting a shoulder type caliber etc. isn't an issue. Hmmm.... so will it be heads or tails when I flip the coin??

Bullets matter far more than headstamps. In the end,the 25-06 can't hang with the 243Win,due simply to boolits. At spitting distances,both will pile-drive schit,stretch things out and it's ALL 243. Very easy to scoot a .530BC at 3000fps+,from a 22" 243Win spout.

There's no way in hell I'd go long action,add more powder,increase recoil and drive more barrel length,to come in 2nd Place to a 22" s/a 243Win.

Cheer up,I've more 25's than anyone I know.

Hint.

Beat me to it. Great cartridge and even better for handloaders.

Of the two mentioned, I'd take the .25-06.

I truly love the 25. Have most of all in the 25 cal guns most in multi-guns. The 243 with a 105 or 107 beats it @ long range. I hunt with 25-06 a lot and would not trade it but the bullet companys sure dont make very good bullets for the 25. .243 bullets are the best bullets made today because of the bench rest boys. Brass munufactures also make a lot better stuff with 243 markings vs any 25 cal rounds. Buy several of each cal they dont eat grass.

243 makes the most sense. Boxer pretty well summed it up for ya.

Here you go:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=279760124

or

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=279842896

+1

257 Roberts!! :-)

25-06 if a Bib cannot be found.

Boxer's advice on this matter (once again) is worth it's weight in gold. He speaks the truth.

Agree Boxer, but it's all moot if he's not reloading and or doesn't have a fast twist barrel.

To fire Boxer's 530BC bullet you will need a 1 in 8 twist barrel which will mean a custom barrel but they are a sweet working combination. But for what you say you are doing I think the 2506 with the option of 115 & 120 grain bullets might make more sense and Berger makes a .257 vld bullet that will work in a 1 in 10 twist that most 2506 have.

You do not need a 1 in 8 twist to shoot 105's....

There fixed it for you.

20 antelope with the 243,5 with the 6mm Remington, 6 with the 257 Bob and 12 with the 25-06. Nothing does a better job than a 100 gr Hornady SP at 3000 fps + at the muzzle from a 243. You can blow the sh*t out of them better with a misplaced 100 gr bullet at 3400 fps in a 25-06 but not deader. FWIW the 120 in the 25-06 is a quicker killer in heavy deer, but not on 100-120 lb antelope. BTDT too many times to believe otherwise. Magnum Man

To get a bullet with a BC of 530 I'm pretty sure you would have to go with the Berger VLD and that means a fast twist barrel of at least 1 in 8 . I think the 105 Amax is about 500 BC And Hornady recommends a twist faster than 1in 10 for them I have no experience with the Amax so I'm just going on what I've been told.

For deer you'll never regret the 25.06. Just plain wicked on 'em!

The new Horn HPBT Match is .530, and it and the A-Max both stabilize in a 10" twist some of the time, and a 9" twist all of the time

I love the 25-06...

But I love the 243 more.

Recoil, Action Length, Barrel Length, Incredibly High BC Heavy Bullets for LR and Incredibly Fast Light Bullets in the 55's, Lots more Factory Ammo options...All in favor of the 243.

Especially for a guy who already has a 270...

I don't know why the bullet makers hate the quarter bore, and I wish they didn't.

DJ

You guys are missing the logical solution.

He should get the 25-06 first.
Then he won't have any need for the 270.
Sell the 270 and then get the 243.
Problem solved. All bases covered. Two new guns to play with.

That was easy.

Hornady recommends faster than 10 twist for the A-Max but doesnt recommend faster than 10 twist for the BTHP.I'm gonna have to try a box of those BTHP.

6mm Rem.

Btw....in Texas, the only people who shoot a 243 are adolescent's and women!

-1

That's just not correct. A 700 will spin them as it comes from the factory.

I'm afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess and you are afforded the "luxury" of talking out your ass. Factory rifles abound,which will do the aforementioned .530BC proud in issued guise. That in regards to twist,throat and COAL.

There was no need to quantify your ass ramblings with the "I have no experience" banner,as it was/is well beyond obvious,that he only thing you shoot is your mouth.

Take notes and apply same.

Hint.



OCC,

I hear good things about the 243AI(compared here to the Goat [bleep] 6mmRem AI).



For conversation,a 20" Gasser in SAAMI 243Win will scoot magfed/kissin' .530BC's to 2900fps,standing on it's head. I reckon one could rebarrel a BAR to 25-06,increase barrel length and still come in second.(grin)




Boolits matter far more than headstamps.





'35,

As "neat" as any 25-06 is at the 850yd line,a vanilla SAAMI 243Win is that much neater,due simply to it's ability to reap and roll vastly superior projectiles. For conversation a 22" 243Win with the .530BC's clipping along at a modest 3000fps initial launch('17 will getcha more),will arrive the 850yd scene at 1720fps(1500' ele in standard atmosphere),with 5.4 MOA of wind in 10mph full value,ala 40-ish grs of powder.

It do very much [bleep] with heads,that a mild mannered s/a chambering,so easily slaps l/a offerings around. But alas,Myths,Wives Tales and Ignorance,do die lingerin' deaths.(grin)

As an aside,I've often shot cleans for a belly load(3rds) on clay birds at the 750yd line via #1 contoured 23" 25-284(chambering which I much prefer over the 25-06) and 6x glass. While it's oft fashionable to cite "It's the Indian,not the arrow"...I'd be inclined to state "Beware the BEST Indian,with the BEST arrows",if only because a guy makes his own "luck". "Luck" is factored by trigger time and the schit that is the most fun to shoot,simply gets the Lion's share of trigger yankin'. Couple the inherent fun,with the inherent Ballistic advantages and a whole lotta schit gets real easy and real [bleep] fast.

A 22" 243Win will stay supersonic to 1400yds+,is no slouch at 10' and one needn't give up anything in the fray. I'll always take shorter powder columns and better BC's,especially when coupled with a shorter action,shorter barrel and increased performance. We in the business call that "Win/Win". Assuming like lengthed barrels,the 243 nudges ahead even further,though I've got no use for one longer than even 24",but dat's me.

In fairness,the ..466 BC .257" 115 Berger has never horned me up,though I've only shot 'em in Bob,Better Bob,25-284,25-06,25-06AI and 257Wby...but before I hop in the rack every night,I pray to the Boolit Gods that a .257" A-Max and Scenar is unveiled in the morning,if only because I've got me some Nostalgic Quarterbore Memories collected Afield.

Hint.(grin)

Buck1919,
go with the 243. If that is a bit mundane for you, have it punched to the AI version. This route will give you easy use of great brass and the above mentioned higher BC bullets! Couple that with being able to drive said bullets faster and preserve said brass longer and you gotta whole lotta knee slappin' to look forward to.

Pretty cool!

25-06 at work

Jordan thats interesting I never shoot Hornady bullets so I can't say with but a 107 grn. Serria I can't get it to stabilize in a 1in 9 6mm Rem. or a 243 tikka that is 1 in 10 twist.

25-06

I've always been courious. Do deer become more difficult to kill when a boy matures into a man?

You haven't been around many deer, have you?! Of COURSE they do!

Touch�.

.243 does well with a good pilot

Exactly! Once we've developed an 'adult' sense of pride, we 'know' that we cannot have simply 'missed'. What follows is trying to substitute calibre for shot placement.

Has anyone run the new Hornady .530 HPBT match bullet through a critter yet?

If so, what was the terminal performance?

Well... I found a gun that I had good luck with when I was 16...except that was a 308. I went to a gunshop and found a Remington M788 in a 6 mm Rem today. I had heard they increased the twist rate back in the early 60's to 1-9". Now I should be able to stabilize the 100 and 105 grain bullets. (I took Boxer's advice) Plus I see that the case is a bit longer and so is the neck. It should allow me to keep the longer bullets out of the powder area and also hold the bullet a bit straighter. I thank all of you for your valuable opinions and good humored posts. Maybe the next time I get an itch to purchase a different gun...it will be a 25-06.

Cool, congrats- I love my 6mm and by the way- if it is a Remington labeled as a 6mm the twist will be 1-9". The ones labeled 244 had the slower twist so no worries. Very interesting rifle that 788 with the crazy bolt and all. you might consider IMR 4350. It is driving tacks with Sierra 85 hpbt and Speer 100 grain bullets in my model 700.

You numbers are wrong, therefore, I disagree.

.277" - .026.5" = 250.5
.224" + .026.5" = 250.5

250.5" definently equals a 250AI

I have to say that 243AI has a cool factor of 100!

I have a short, light .243, and a long, heavy 25-06. Neither are going anywhere.

It should serve you well. It fills the 'gap' nicely between your 270 and your 22-250. And it allows you to throw those splendid A-max's with their high BC's.

And you were wise to listen to Boxer! He drop hints, and he leads you to water. Follow the hints, and drink the water! He speaks from experience, from having done things...a lot!!!, and that's a good kind of person to take advice from.
Plus, he's wicked fun to read!

Btw, Hornady 105 A-max's are on sale right now at Midway!

As a life long .25-06 guy.... it pains me to say this.... but after running the 105 Amax out of a .243 for a while.... I'll never buy another .25-06.... unless they come out with a 115-120 Amax with a BC of .550+ that'll spin in a factory pipe (read: ain't happenin')

I'm not ready to go that far. I have a .25-06 that I bought around 2005 after having wanted one since Remington introduced it. I agree that Hornady not producing an A-Max for it handicaps it some, but for the type of hunting I do, at the ranges I hunt, a 115 gr Nosler BT or a 100 gr BT or Interlock are adequate. That said, I do have plans to pick up a 260 or 7mm-08 to sling A-Max's out of, just cuz. For the OP's purposes, a .25-06 would have been too close to his 270, in my opinion, and he is better served with a .24 caliber of some flavor.

105 Amax is the trump card here.... 'stick/TryMe/Boxer is on the money there (does anyone else get Big Lebowski flashbacks when refering to 'sticks diatribes? "You're not wrong Walter.... you're just an azz hole").... and 3100 is reasonable out of a 24" spouted .243 SAAMI. That means.... the .25-06 is relegated to sucking hind teet as a deer/pronghorn/coyote rifle... a LR rifle... and a varmint gun. I believe that's game, set, match...

Dogshooter:

Can't disagree with your data. But the availability of one bullet in 6MM doesn't make me want to ditch all my quarter bores. A 117-120gr 257 caliber bullet @ 3100 fps is only about 1.5" lower at 400 yards than the aforementioned 105gr AMax load. So it appears to me that the BC of the 243 "trumps" the 25's only at very long ranges (at least for me they would be long). So for me and probably 99% of deer hunters, whose shots are well under 400 yards, the 25/06 is still the one.

And I have no interest in starting another "match bullet for game thread", but I'm more comfortable shooting Interlocks, Partitions, etc than a bullet which the manufacturer says in not recommended for game.

YMMV

I'm not arguing that the 105 A-Max isn't the cat's azz, I'm just sayin' that my .25-06 is still effective out to 400 yds, at least, using available bullets. Effective, meaning, it'll kill things...you know...make'em dead forever. Because it's not the optimum weapon doesn't mean it's not an effective weapon. If I get to feelin' frisky, I can always stick that 162 A-Max in a 7 RM case and shoot way out yonder.

243 all the way. I used a 6mm as a kid and all the way through college. 100g hornady BTSP's counted for many 1 shot kills on deer over the years. When it came time to build a custom a few years back I went with the 243 because the case was shorter. I used the new 243 last year on my deer and it still works. Although I used a 105 vld instead just to see how it'd work. I mostly run the 105 amax in the custom and they do fly.

However, I did end up with a 25-06 the other day. I usually shun all things 25 or 27 but I couldn't pass up a minty stainless mountain rifle for $425. Not when I had a ti stock under the bed.

Bb

Oh.... now this is a "which is more effective" post.... I thought it was one vs. the other. I'm pretty sure when the .243 kills stuff... it stays dead for a while too. But, to be sure.... I just put a padlock on my freezer.

By the way.... at 400 yards there is virtually no difference in velocity/energy/drift between the two (105 AM @ 3100 vs. 115 NBT @3150)... after 400 the .243 really takes over. All that for 46 grains of powder.... I needed upwards of 58 grains to get 3150 out of a 115 NBT... that's 25% more powder and a bullet that costs twice as much.... to get absolutely nothing at 400.... except more recoil/noise and a longer/heavier gun... great choice!

Laffin'. Dogshooter, relax! This isn't a pissin' contest, and I'm not tryin' to pick a fight. If you really wanna laugh, know that sometimes I hunt with a .30-30 and a 444 and a .45-70, too, none of which are exactly icons for either long range or stellar ballistic coefficients. I've already admitted that the 105 A-Max rocks! I give up already! I'm just sayin' I'm not gettin' rid of my .25-06, that's all. And that if it's pointed in the general direction of wee beasties they still tend to tip over, even using such boolits as are available for it.

Now...can we declare a cease-fire?

The question would be best answered by what class or kind of rifle will it be chambered in ?
The classic .243 is a 22 inch barreled rifle of a light weight design. The typical .25-06 is a 24 inch barreled rifle using a magnum contoured barrel which often go 1.5-2 lbs. more ready to hunt.
The lighter .243 style rifles are far more popular than anyone predicted when they were first introduced in 1955. That's because they worked better than most expected and were very accurate as well. And nobody objects to easy to carry, light kicking, accurate rifles.
The .25-06 is another that is and was more popular than many thought it would be. It offers, for instance, magnum class flat trajectory with w/o the unpleasant recoil which the magnums are famous for. I'd venture to say that the .25-06 is about as popular as the 7mm Remington Magnum, for instance.
Above all, they work. I can remember Les Bowman, a well known wyoming guide stating once that his hunters had better success on elk when armed with .243's and 6mm's than did his hunters equipped with .338 Winchesters Magnums.
When I first saw that, many years ago, I thought that was a bit too much to believe. But, over the years, I've seen both work on stuff like that. They really do kill well.
So pick the type of rifle you prefer and match it to the appropriate round. E

My dad can beat up your dad......

Aw, geeez.

My dad doesn't need to beat up your dad...cuz I can beat up you AND your dad, and hell, we might as well make a package deal out of it, so I'll beat up your dang dog, too!

(Dear Lord, I tried to play nice, but... )

Eremicus,

New and better bullet designs, new powders, the passing of the Magnum craze...a number of factors have contributed to the renaissance of some fine cartridges that were good in their own right and are even better today.

yep... you could... I'm a puzzy.... that's why I shoot stuff. But, you'll have a tough time with the dog.... since there ain't one.

Back on track.... I think E has it right to some degree. But with the plethora of rifles available now... you can find the platform your looking for in just about any caliber. Which means... we have the luxury of picking the bullet we want to shoot... and matching it to an available platform (or building one).... rather than being stuffed into a rifle because we like the caliber or visa versa.

At the end of the day.... I just can't see anybody building/buying a .25-06 for anything other than nostalgic reasons.... and I've owned more .25-06s than any other single caliber. Also, I'm not advocating the liquidation of all .25's to fund .243 projects (though that's the route I went).... if you've already got one or the other... then dance with who brung ya'. If you don't.... then there ain't any argument worth hearing that puts the .25-06 in front of the .243.

No worries! I'll adapt, improvise, and overcome. Your cat, then, or your pet frog, or mebbe even an errant mosquito. Or, mebbe we could just grab a couple beers and a pizza...

I bet we could kill a few beers and a pizza or two...

My daughter has a couple of Guinea Pigs here at the house you could beat-up on... as long as I can record it for coyote calling purposes.

I've had a 6mm Remington since I was a teenager, and still have it, along with the aforementioned .25-06. I'm inclinded to think that the option to throw out heavier bullets in the .25-06 might prove valuable to some people in some circumstances. Simply my opinion. And I will state for the record that I've been wrong before and will be wrong again, some time, some where, about some thing.
One observation, though..Hornady doesn't make an A-max for the 270, either, but I haven't noticed a rush to dump 270's or the denunciation of them as useless or obsolete.

Frankly, I think we should take up a collection and get Ingwe a 270...
And after that, we'll do it all over again and get Podunk a 7x57.

I think the .257 Roberts is a good example of that. E

Your daughter need fear not...guinea pigs kick my ass every time.

Agreed. As is the 250 Savage, to a degree. Riflemakers chambering in some of the older calibers has certainly contributed, Ruger coming to mind.

243 is more pleasant to shoot, but performance on deer for me was less than stellar but this was 10 years back so things may have changed it left me not impressed so I opted for the 25.06. No problems with it!

And that's what's good about it. Different people have different preferences based on bullet performance or cartridge performance or nostalgia or sentimental reasons, and different standards regarding cartridge efficiency or what is acceptable terminal ballistics or whatever. And the only one you have to please is yourself. I have several .45-70's, and it just trips my trigger to use the same cartridge Custer used at Little Big Horn. Or throw 44 Mag bullets out of a lever action carbine, or use my 444, or one of my 17 Remingtons. Our pasts lead us to decisions and conclusions, decisions and conclusions which may have been perfectly valid in the past, but which may not hold true now, due to various developments and improvements.

I don't care if my rifle can kill a deer past 400 yards or not. Heck, I don't even care if I can kill one at 200. It's solid woods where I do my deer hunting and I haven't seen a deer past 125 yards or so in 20 years. That said, my .243 kills all the deer I shoot with it all the way dead. But then so do my .30-30 and .223. I've got no use or need for A-Max bullets and don't care whether they make them for any caliber rifle I own or not. I did kill one deer at well over 400 yards back in '92 when I still hunted farm land though. They didn't even make A-Max bullets back then, yet somehow I managed a one shot kill with a simlple, unsophisticated Sierra Gameking out of my .243. Who woulda thunk it ?

All this gun talk matters more to us than to the deer/elk/moose/sheep/goat/bear. They just tip over and go to sleep.

You're sick.

Dude.... that ain't sick... that's terminal coyote shootin' disease. Incurable I'm told.... which is fine by me!

Here is the quarter bore killer. Ugly, till you shoot it..

243ai-700 Action
1-8 PacNor, 3 groove, 24", MR
Rifle Basix Trigger
McM Edge MR Stock
DNZ Mounts
6x42 w/fine reticle (my favorite)

It shoots 105s very well.

That's almost exactly what I have in the works....

How quick you run those 105's in the AI?

3140, in cooler temps. I think I have room to go up, but haven't ventured up any further.

With an 85grn TSX, my .243 is perfect for most deer hunting applications. That said, it ain't even close to my 25-06AI.

I'd think you definitely have room to move up... I'm getting 3100 out of 105 AMs in a 24" SAAMI (46.5gr 7828). You're running Scenars though right?

After I bought my first 25-06, I really can't find a good use for my 270 other than a rebarrel project. Going to use the 25 for coyotes to large deer. Hell if a 270 can do it with a 130, the 25 should be able to do with with a 120 gr. I know my 6.5x55 did that with a 120 this past deer season.

Then again, there aren't many choices for us lefties out there either...

Amaxs right now. I switched to DNZ mounts and now they want to group out of that rifle.

I have both, but I am not really sure why. My .25-06 is a No. 1 AH that I recently acquired. I have had the caliber before, so we are not strangers. It is all one needs for deer/pronghorn and similar sized game. I have some 110 Accubonds ready to go.

I dual load my .243. I have been using 70 grain spitzers at about 3450 (book) as a predator load. I load 100 grain Partitions at about 3000 for my deer load. The beautiful part is that with the 70 grain bullets sighted to dead zero, the 100 grain bullets print exactly 3" higher on the exact vertical line. A little playing around with the duplex gives pretty good options. A turrent would make these loadings into some very useful tools. I have only recently become interested in that possibility. Not much wrong with killing a coyote with a 100 grain bullet, but I would not want to use the 70s on deer. Best wishes, jack

Get both. Now just decide which one to get first.

To all the 243 fanboys here, what happens if the very limited selection of high BC bullets don't shoot well in your gun? Then you're relegated to shooting bullets whose bc's are nearly identical to the 257's. Velocity now becomes king and we know who wins that contest. One more thing, the only high bc 243 bullet designed for hunting is the VLD. Sans the VLD, how bout comparing bullets designed for hunting puposes and not target shooting?!

You've been led to water.

I agree (with the twist), BUT... an 85grn TSX from a .243 will cleanly kill any deer in this country.

beat me to it. What is the speed diff between a 243 85 grain and a 100 grain 257? Am thinking the latests trend here is that mono-bullets give penetrations only found in high SD bullets before.

I prefer water to Kool Aid, Jim Jones!

My pet loads have a 85grn TSX at about 3100fps from my .243, and 100grn TSX's at 3580fps from my 25-06AI. Very different creatures, and both great.

What penetrates deeper...an 85 gr 243 TSX at 3300, or a 100 gr 257 TSX at 3300? Me thinks a 257!

Yep. So the real question is how much penetration do you need?

Keep posting about bullets you've never used.. It's funny.

I have used both quit a bit and would take the 25- every time.
I can shoot a 100gr TSX at 3400 out of my 25-AI and a 115 berger VLD at 3200. The 243 with a VLD might out run the 25- at 800 yards by a few inches, but Im not killing at more than a few hundred or so, so it really doesn't matter for me.

..and then there would be the 257 80gr TTSX at 3600 or 3700?

I would say either would penetrate more than required. I do know for fact that a deer will not stop a 100gr tsx with a impact velocity of 3300fps and that's going through bone going in and coming out.

Both are great varmint rounds and I prefer them to the 22 centerfires for long range work.Having shot many whitetails and a muley with the 25-06,I still think the 270 is your huckleberry for deer.
I see both the 243 and 25-06 as true dual purpose rifles in sporter weight for someone that does not have alot of guns in their rack.
Just bought a 25-06 last week after not having one for a few years.That was my go to round for the first 20 yrs. of hunting deer because it was my only rifle.Lots of memories,all good with the 25-06.

You have to understand that you are comparing 48gr of powder to 61gr.

I have several 25-06ai's in my safe. Both are customs, well set up, and extremely accurate. But, you can't deny a SA 243ai flinging a 105gr .5 BC bullet downrange at 3140, with virtually no recoil and 48gr of powder. It's perfection for deer hunting, IMO.

I guess I'll buy a box of those A-max's and try them in my 6mm Remmie and see how they shoot.

Personally, I'd prefer a 117 or 120gr bullet, designed for hunting, at about 3000fps using 49gr of IMR4350. Even though the BC is way down there around .4, the trajectory is plenty flat for my hunting. YMMV

Perfection for deer round for me is 180gr, 90+ grains of powder, and 3300fps+. Course Im not right either,lol.

It only takes 51 grains of RL-17 to achieve 3300 fps in my 25-06.

This is what get's me about you 243 fanboys. It's always Amax this, AI that, etc.. Always using the most extreme examples to try and prove your point. The vast majority of avg hunters don't even know what an 243 Ackley Imporved is. If they do, they probably don't have the money to build one, nor the time to jack around fire forming brass. Heck, most don't even reload. For what it is, yes, the 243 is a very efficient and useful cartridge. Will it meet or exceed the 25-06 in some applications? Yes! On avg though, a 25-06 shoots faster, flater and hits harder at ranges most hunters will be shooting.

^ +1

Impressive paper ballistics never killed anything.

Custer didn't use the .45-70, he used the .50-70. Even his men didn't really use the .45-70. Since the carbine load for the .45-70 only contained 55 grains of black powder and a cardboard filler the cartridge was then referred to as the .45/55. Sorry for being a wizeazz.

Took me a bit more RL17 to get the speeds you are claiming.

Until they come out with some good bullets for the quarter bores, they don't offer anything that above what something else can offer, no matter how fast you can make them go. Tis a shame too.

In the same "class", I'd rather have:

243
243ai
6-284
6-06
240 Wby
260
260ai
6.5-284

7-08..

Yep, lots of good choices and lots of overlap. But inside of 400 yards, I sure don't see gettin' all worked up over a difference of .05 in the BC.

You'll not catch me disparaging either round, as either is all you need to kill anything in this country, short of long range elk (maybe) and the big bears. Of course, one has to be confident in their sexuality to admit that.

Same cartridge case, one load for cav, one load for infantry. I'm thinkin' you're pickin' pepper, but that's ok.

I agree. But Custer really was a .50/70 guy. Amazing thing is the Indians walked off the battlefield with his Remington Rolling Block in tow, and it's never resurfaced since. I'd love to know where it is.

Prolly rusted up and junked somewhere under 2' of earth. Our Native American brothers weren't always icons of firearms maintenance. But then, Custer wasn't either, if he let his rifle, and his life, get taken from him.

I'm a short action slut, and between my 243AI's, 250AI, 7-08AI, 338Fed and 6mmBR's, I don't have any itch for a 25-06......

It has been very interesting reading all of your posts guys... some made me chuckle. I bought that M788 6mm. Owned it for 6 days and was offered a bunch more money than I paid for it so I sold it and bought a new T/C Venture 243. 22" barrel and lighter so it will be perfect for a kick around 'yote gun or something for the gal to shoot deer with. The gun is gonna be used for coyotes in central Mn. and deer in northern Mn woods where my farthest shot will be 200 yards. My 'yote loads will be with lighter bullets. Deer bullets can be the heavier ones but don't have to have "shoot 'em in the left eye" accuracy cuz a long shot for me will be 200 yards. When I go out west to shoot antelope I will be carrying the 243 and my 270 also. The older I get (49) the more traditional I become. I did hang onto my 300WSM but I don't have my 6.5-284, 270WSM, or 338RUM anymore. After reading alot of your posts I will be keeping my eye put for a 257 Rob. I am getting old school it seems. I have added 243... 270.. and 280 to my arsenal in the past couple of years. Not sure what I will need for those guinea pigs though? :-)