I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Sako Black Bear in 308Win, but I also want to consider the great 30-06.
I already have two 06's, but can one every have enough....LOL

My question.
The 30-06 BB has a 20" tube, as does the 308Win. And from memory, when I did use a short barreled 30-06 some years back, I do seem to remember it barked A LOT more than the 308Win in the same configuration.

What do you men think. Is a 20" barrel too short for a 30-06

And what advantages will it have over the 308Win in the same configuration

PS- The quoted Sako INFO of 21" is wrong. They're all 20". It is stated in the technical section

This would be a perfect rifle for 9.3x62.

I had a Sauer 202 Hardwoods in 9.3x62 with a 19" barrel. Way TOO LOUD IMO, but that extra 1" Sako added might be the kicker.......?

I dig the semi-heavy barrel. The flutes I don't really care for but I cannot change that

I can't compare a 20" barrel on a 30-06 to a .308, but i know a 20" on a 30-06 is too loud for me. Personally, in that rifle i'd be going with the .308, my reasoning being that the difference between a .308 and a 30-06 is small at the best of times and when you go down to 20" barrels i think you would find that the velocity increase with the 30-06 would be miniscule - probably 50fps. I'd rather save the few extra ounces of weight in the action and have the faster action operation of the shorter .308 action than have 50fps extra velocity.

If i wanted a bit more hitting power and was looking at heavier bullets, i'd go up to the .338 Federal instead of the 30-06 in that particular rifle with the short barrel. To my mind the 30-06 has always needed about a 22" barrel minimum to make it worthwhile vs the .308.

308 for sure out of a short barrel. Love for the 308!

Your '06 burns about 12-15 grains more powder than the 308. Gotta bark louder.

Unless you really dig the Rechnagel sights, why not get a Finnlight, if you want it chambered 308 or 30-06?

I'm of the opinion the Black Bear screams to be chambered in 9.3x62...but that's me

I do have a 9.3 Black Bear, and I think of it as a 30-06 having the capability to shoot a larger bullet. It's basically a black Finnlight with Rechnagel sights. Mine was used to replace both a 338WM and 375H&H. I feel it makes a very handy package in that context. Flip side, if I were looking for a handy 308, I'd probably look at the Finnlight.

Best

..........I believe that you should get what your gutt tells you as to what you like the best and let the chips fall where they may.

Sure! From a 20" barrel, the 308 won`t quite be as loud as the `06. But with that stated, I would think that regardless of which cartridge you choose, you are going to be wearing some form of hearing protection at all times whether at the range or on hunts? Then if so, then the question as to which one is louder is really a non-issue imo.

Two out of my three rifles/cartridges below have barrels 20" and less. One a 16.5" barreled 300 WSM Ruger compact since early `07 and the other a 20" barreled 375 Ruger Alaskan since about mid `08. I always wear good muffs at the range and wear good hearing protection for field use.

Not to mention noise levels from a 338-378 Wby Accumark w/brake?

No hearing problems.

Get what you like and protect your hearing.

I think you are spot on there dhg

Too hard to wear hearing protection when stalking deer, as I am always on the move......

My gut says 308Win, but that 338Fed would be sweet too

YUP!

For me it's a tad too short, as I remember my Sauer Hardwoods too well
The BOOOOOOM that let off gave me a headache.
And my recent 9.3x62, which was a Zastava.....Whilst out sighting it in with a friend, as well as sighting in a 7mmRM R8(25" barrel Vs 24" for the Zastava). He commented just how much louder the 9.3 was.
Nah I reckon 22" is minimum here.

A friend just bought one, but unlike me he can wear hearing protection for there type of hunting. In that case it's a great choice!

Speaking in terms of unported barrels. At the range while wearing hearing protection and behind the rifle butt, I doubt anyone could tell the difference in report between two identical 9.3x62 rifles, if the only difference was one had a 20" barrel and the other had a 22" barrel.

In addition, without hearing protection while taking a shot on game, I think it would be impossible for you to discern a difference between the two. In the scheme of things, report from a 9.3x62 Black Bear shooting +pressure loadings is not anywhere near objectionable compared to other carbines, short barrelled rifles, turkey shotguns, handguns, etc. You'll notice little difference when firing on game.

Flip side; if the barrel is ported, you are in an enclosed area, or you are directly downrange of the muzzle blast, you'd think it loud even if it were a 308 with a 26-inch barrel.

If you're interested in a handy 9.3x62 bolt rifle, you'd have a hard time finding a production rifle much better than the Black Bear. If you're interested in a handy 308 or 30-06 and are interested in a Sako, I'd look over the Finnlight. I use my Black Bear with and without scope, and it is used as a brush rifle, therefore I appreciate the Rechnagel sights. If it were to be scoped and not used as a fixed sight rifle, it would be a Finnlight. Also, I'd choose the chambering based on the end game. If you're planning on using bigger .308 bullets for larger game, I'd look hard at the '06 over the 308, regardless of barrel length. If not, and it would be used with moderate bullets on medium game and elk, then the 308 may better fit.

Best

Yes sir, a man after my own heart . I have always wanted a Sako Finnlight but never took the stand......Plus I dig how these are stainless, which IMO are just sooooooo much easier to maintain........
The lowest Sako ringsmounts mated with that new beaut Leupold Vx11 2-7x33

certainly some wise words!

my friend will fire his 9.3 soon(new rifle) which will give me a better indication.......

If I looked at a 9.3 I dare say I would just buy another 3006. That 06/180grTTSX is my pappy

As I think the 06 would be quieter, but that's hard to be certain.......

And after using the 338WM, 7mm-08Rem, 340Wby & 308Win on my quarry. I do believe there would not be much in killing power between a 9.3x62 using 250gr TTSX & 30-06 with a 180gr TTSX.
As I have had big stags run 100+ with perfect shoulder shots from my 340 & 338 then had em drop to the shot with a 7mm-08........Go figure??? That's hunting for ya

But a Tikka T3 stainless camo in 9.3x62 is another story. Great rifle/cal combo!!!

The Black Bear cries out for a large bore. It seems made for the 9.3X62.

None of the above, are a bad choice. That being said, I am absolutly head over heels in love, with a .338 federal in a short barreled rifle.

I know what you mean. Big hole, reasonable recoil & muzzle blast & I'm sure as hell it would kill great.

I have been using a Black Bear .308 with a Leupold VX-6 2-12X42 for Red and Sika deer hunting for about six months now (no closed season where I live). To me the Black Bear has a lot nicer balance than the Finnlight which I find quite muzzle light. I find the BB perfect for off hand shots in the heavier cover, especially after climbing up a ridge and having an increased heart rate. It doesn't help when the muzzle end is light as with the Finnlight.

The Black Bear having a much heavier profile barrel than the Finnlight helps, I believe, with accuracy. A friend has the Finnlight in .308 and he has had quite a lot of trouble trying to get it to group under 1" as guaranteed by Sako (Berretta NZ). My BB on the other hand groups amazingly well, averaging .75" with 150gr Hornady SST's and 150gr Nosler BT's. It shoots even better with Speer 130 HP's. I think that the Finnlight barrel in .308 is a little too whippy. Another friend has a FL in .270 and it shoots well although he really likes my Black Bear and is seriously thinking of buying one.

I removed the iron sights on my Bear as I don't need them and they can sometimes get hooked up in the scrub. I think the Sako 85 synthetic stocks are particularly well made. They're certainly far superior to the junky plastic stocks on the average el cheapo rifle; absolutely no comparison. I doubt very much whether they're made from Finnish milk bottles as suggested by one poster. I'm seriously considering changing the Leupold to a Zeiss Victory HT 1.5-6X42 #60 ret. Nothing wrong with the Leupold VX-6, in fact it's a superb scope for the money; I just like Zeiss optics.

The Black Bear in .338 Federal would be an awesome bush rifle for any of the bigger deer species including Elk and boar.

"Personally, in that rifle i'd be going with the .308, my reasoning being that the difference between a .308 and a 30-06 is small at the best of times and when you go down to 20" barrels i think you would find that the velocity increase with the 30-06 would be miniscule - probably 50fps."

I don't think it would be that much. A few years back I ran a velocity test with 180 gr. Winchester Power Points from a 22" .308 and 22" 30-06. Rifles were a Winchester M70 for the .308 and a J.C. Higgins M50 FN Mauser. Only 25 FPS difference twixt the two.
I also had a custom Mauser with 24" Barrel and a Ruger #1B with me that day in 30-06 and the only one that came anywhere near factory advertised velocity was the long barreled Ruger. Even then it wasn't quite there. Wish I could find my notes from that day. Be nice to quote the actual figures.
Paul B.

I just looked in the technical section.

http://www.sako.fi/sako85models.php?black_bear

It says 21.25 inches.

Okay, there's two technical sections.

The web page says 540 mm, and the .pdf file says 510 mm.

Guess we'll just have to put a bore rod down the muzzle and measure ourselves.

It's 20".

.308 Win.

I'd get the 308, you could always rebore to 338 or 358 if you didn't like it. A 20" 30/06 or similar 06 based casing has always been too painful for me to be around

When I first tried my Black Bear in .308 I was a little disappointed in the groups. They were around 1 MOA but with a definite horizontal string to them. Then I noticed that the heavier profile fluted barrel was making contact with the stock from just back from the fore end tip to where the barrel flares out in the chamber area on both sides. Why I hadn't noticed it before testing the rifle, I don't know.

Anyhow, I carefully sanded out the barrel channel leaving about a 1/32" gap either side. Back to the range and what a change. The rifle suddenly starts grouping 3 shots into 1/4" at 100m with Barnes 130gr TTSX and consistently under 1/2" with Hornady 150gr SST's and Speer 130gr HP's. I haven't fired any 5 shot groups because it's my policy not to with a hunting rifle. I actually fired two groups of 3 shots at 200m (219yds) with the Barnes and both were right on the 1/2" mark.

Can't complain about the accuracy then as it's the most accurate hunting rifle I've ever owned. Can bitch about the QC that let the rifle go out with the barrel touching the stock as the Sako 85 is advertised as having a free floating barrel.

Since Sako actions are scaled to the cartridge in all dimensions, I'd favor the .308 as it should be considerably handier.

Another factor is that, on average, you get about 30 more loads out of a pound of powder with the .308, based on 58gr. '06 loads and 46gr. .308s; a considerable advantage given the crazy component situation we have.

I really need to check the date on the OPs. April 2012!

It doesn't matter how old the OPs question is as all answers may be useful to others that may be contemplating buying one of these rifles.

I agree with your rationale regarding the .308 vs 30/06 calibre choice in a 20" barrel.

That gun screams for a 338Federal. Higher velocity than 308, bigger bullet and same or more energy than 30-06. powdr