The ol' bean seems to be allowing me to shoot once a week (not twice!) so that's what I've been doing. Conditions were good yesterday... meaning I'm caught up on shop work, and the athlete kid was off at a track meet and wasn't needing shuttle service after school... grin... and oh yeah, it was reasonably calm out and only raining
a little. So off I went to my 500-yd spot.

This spot has a plate at 450 yds that is relatively easy to get to for maintainance (repainting, rehanging, replacing) and I'm still working my way back to form so I've been focusing on it lately. I have a 600-yd plate that's been compromised by logging that I need to go retrieve and set up in a different spot... 600 yds is my real goal in hunting rifles. For this Imaginer 600 yds is a challenge in a hunting context- meaning first-shot hits almost always. 450-500 is pretty much in the bag as far as just hitting a vitals-sized plate.

Anyway, yesterday was fun and my 7 WSM, 7-08, and '06 were making the plate go "whop!" with brutal regularity. I drove over and repainted it a couple times so I could track group size. With cold barrels I was right around 3/4 MOA or better... which certainly doesn't suck, but my goal is to regularly print half MOA at those ranges so... it ain't enough to just PYCOTC, sometimes you gotta pry HARDER!

If anyone around here (Eugene area) wants to PYCOTC and whack steel, let me know, I've got several spots set up out to 800 yds or so, and I go up all the time. You get to Elmira, I'll drive from there... This 500-yd spot is great for gaining (or regaining in my case) confidence and skill at mid-ranges; it's got fun stuff to shoot at from around 250, to 500 yds. In my experience it's around 600 yds that chit gets squirrely fast... at least for me & my hunting-weight rifles. That makes it interesting-- and the next goal-- but sometimes it's just nice to hear the steel plate complain.

Crown Royal bag full of lentils is THE cool rear bag... lol...

Looks good. That second pic looks like A-Max splatters...

My rear bag is a suede draw-string sack I got in a shwag bag at a golf tourney, filled with socks 'n' beanz Makeshift rear bags are the bees knees!

Good to hear you can shoot the big guns again...

I filled an unmatched sock from my dresser with air-soft BB's, and sewed up the end. Works great.

Looks fun! Tough to do here on the wrong side of the country.

I know what you mean. No opportunity to shoot that far for me. I do wonder at the apparent difficulty of shooting at something from what amounts to as close to benchrest stabilty as you can get, at known distances with equipment that makes it all as easy as possible {rangefinders/scope turrets} and calling it marksmanship ? Seems like heavy reliance on modern technology as a substitute for old fashioned hunting/stalking and marksmanship skills to me. I mean gosh, we used to kill woodchucks at 300-400 yds. with .22-250's firing old fashioned "low BC" bullets from a sitting position off homemade shooting sticks with no rangefinder or "turret twisting" and we hit the damned things pretty damned regular by guess and by golly. Maybe I'm all wet but I'm kinda underwhelmed by tales of hitting 6" targets at 500 yards from a sandbagged, prone position with the best of rifles/rests/scopes/high BC bullets. YAAAAWWWWN !! Now stand on your hind legs and vaporize a row of apples from 75 yards offhand bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, without missing a beat and I'll start paying attention. Now you're talking something I can relate to as a valuable skill where I come from !

Jeff is that your hand or is a Yeti holding the ruler for you?

Blackheart are you a full time debbie downer or is it just a hobby for you?

Long range shooting is fun, different and challenging. So is offhand shooting of any and all kinds. Just because Jeff-Os shooting styles arent "impressive" by your standards doesnt give you the right to come in and toot your horn.

After that did you guys hop in your Model Ts and go watch Babe Ruth play?

Thinking the same thing.

And we call them "Sasquatch".

I suggest you try a slingshot or if you want to evolve a stick and string.
Why are you even shooting modern smokeless powder? That's not hard.
You better not be using a scope.
Cheers

How did you measure those 300 and 400 yard shots?

I found that most guys that used to make those 300-400 yard shots were really shooting about 150-175 yards and thought they were doing something.

I have yet to take someone to my 600 yard range and the first words out of their mouth not be "[bleep] that is a long way". Most will not even shoot for groups beyond a 100 because they know they can't do it.

Dink

Yes we do.... . Good to see you out shooting again Jeff...Looks like you're nailing them too.....

Well, you're full-o-shchit in my case bud. We shot those distances by paces along level ground in those days. My paces measured 110 per 100 yards repeatedly on a football field so I trust them pretty well. Shots of 150 - 200 yds. are the territory of .22 WMR and 5 mm Remington mag in my world. I did that over and over hundreds of times {257 paces was my best one shot kill with the 5mm on a chuck}. Even stretched the .22 LR to 150 paces many times and shot one crow off a fence post at 220 paces with a Ruger MK I 22 LR target pistol. Pardon me if I ain't overly impressed with many of the hero accomplishments spoken of here.

I was thinking the same thing.....I'll agree though that it takes quite a bit of talent and skill to shoot good groups offhand at any range.....I love shooting long range and do take critters that way when the opportunity arises. The unit I put in for last year was a known long range shooting opportunity tag (as I call it)....Many different types of hunting, but shooting for fun and practice can be from any range in any position....as far as I'm concerned...I wish I lived closer to Jeff: I'd be all over those 600 yard plates as often as I could.....

As a matter of fact, two of the four deer I killed last season were done in with an iron sighted T/C Hawken shooting patched RB's over 75 gr's of Goex FFFG.

You killed Jimmy Hoffa and invented compound interest too right?

Whats next, a zipper pull down contest ?

About 95% of my practice is done offhand because that;s what is important to my styyle of hunting in my terrain. I have a 2.5" diameter steel spinner 65 yards from my back deck that I practice on constantly offhand. I maintain the ability to hit that spinner 9 out of ten shots offhand religiously. My best on that target in recent years is 78 straight hits without a miss.

I can't help it if most of you [bleep] can't shoot today. Leave your crutches {benchrests/rangefinders/turrets/ treestand shooting rails} behind and practice and maybe you won't be so goddam pathetic. KEEEERIST, I see thousands of target pics posted here showing tiny little groups fired off a bench. That shows what your rifles can do but damn [bleep]' little about what the rifleman can do.

Is it that hairy?! Yikes.

Blackheart: I do ok offhand-- those apples would be in trouble-- but I agree to a point. The big gap in my shooting is 200, 250 yards... where a guy could certainly need to be able to make an offhand shot, or build a quick position to shoot from. This may haunt me if I get the high desert mule deer tag I'm likely to get this year. I'll try to PMCOTC and do some of that type shooting- sitting with a tight sling, leaning against a tree, etc.

I don't see the problem with using modern gear to do... uh... modern things. A very accurate rifle, a scope that tracks, a LRF, and some high-BC bullets is a pathway towards a certain type of fun and, (not claiming I have it) skill.

My goal for the spring/summer is twofold. Sub-MOA at 600 yards, consistently, and to get better at reading wind so that 1st-shot hits at that range become routine.

One more thing Blackheart. Whether this has any actual hunting utility for me, I don't know. I get pretty amped up at killing time. I did fine at ~300 yds on an elk a few seasons ago but adrenaline might render all my practice moot at (say) 600, regardless of what I can do to a steel plate.

Anyway... it's a fun hobby, and there's always more to learn.

You might better shut up and listen junior.

Let me guess, Your truck is better, your wife better looking and your dog is uglier than anyone else on the campfire huh?

I was lying on my stomach with some sort of happy juice dripping through my IV as a nurse shaved my back for surgery. The last thing that I remember hearing was her saying, "I'm going to need another razor," and someone replying, "You're going to need a lawnmower."

Maybe, maybe not but I know how to shoot as evidenced by the drawer full of medals and trophies I've won in competition. WTF you got big mouth ?

Wow do you have someone piss in your cheerio's every morning or are you this charming naturally?

I ain't gotta work at charm dickstain. What you see is what you get. Don't like it, [bleep] off and die. I couldn't care less.

As soon as I start listening to someone with a disposition as arrogant and poisonous as yours, I'll consider myself in pretty deep schit. Thanks though, 'senior'.

It doesn't matter how arrogant or poisonous the delivery if the message is there. Closing your ears and your mind because the delivery isn't kosher enough to avoid bloating your poosy is the signature of an imbecile.

How do you carry it when hunting?


The bag full of magic beans that is.

What was that saying about pots and kettles? Have a great night, sincerely hoping that your 'poosy' isn't too blown out of whack. That sounds painful.

Blackhart and Tanner, stop [bleep] up this thread.....




laughin'!

Sorry! Shouldn't waste time on crap like that. I'm sure Blackheart knows WTF he is talking about, not my place to say otherwise.

Blackhart gets mouthy when he's wasted, harmless though. Mostly just a bullchitter drunk.


That should get him pissed.....grin

I've met nicer [bleep]' rattlesnakes

laughin'

It's BHDH syndrome. Or is it DHBH?

You got me Sam. Hittin the bottle heavy tonight. Doesn't piss me off though. I think it's funny as hell.

I was wondering why Logcutter hadn't been on today......

He changed his name to blackhead.

Wanna wrassel?

Whatsit with all the goddam [bleep] always wantin' to wrastle around here anyway ? This ain't a gay dating site douchebag.

I must commend you on your drunken typing skills though... pretty damn coherent for being in a drunken raging stupor.

I've met nicer [bleep]' rattlesnakes

What's with all the blackheads spouting about their awesomeness in their choice of shooting iron and everyone else is dogsch!t?

Why thank you ! I do tend to hit the wrong keys pretty frequently though and have to go back and edit. Getting drunk doesn't necesarily make you stupid but it does tend to [bleep] with your coordination !

All I know know is, it's time for one more Old Mil Light.


Right there with Blackhart....on a Thursday.....


Cheers....grin

I'm absolutely in agreement with you on that! Glad we found common ground.

Me too ! Have a good night Tanner.

Last "groups" I fired and posted were shot off a bipod SFB's.

Lee24, is that you ? Welcome back...

I'd call him a dickhead but, a dick has got a useful head on it.

Here is a picture of the other side of Jeff's hand:



I just could not resist posting this photo...

John

Just out of curiousity, how tall are you?

Hey, I had a misspent youth, what can I say!

I also went blind.

Now you [bleep] have me worried about my hairy hands. Am I hirsute?


Or, thinking that you ladies are frightfully hairless. Shiny hairless people. Like those weird cats. Sounds cold.


Both possibilities are disturbing.

I must pry (open a beer) harder.

Like most threads JeffO starts, this one is more than a little entertaining... Some ot it I read three times...

Tanner is one of the most intelligent organisms on the planet under the age of 21,near as I can tell...he learns real fast,and knows what he's doing....he knows how to sink a hook, too.

Blackheart has a good message that gets lost a bit in the delivery but I think he does that on purpose...he relishes the rancor.

Point being he's right about the moderate range practice from the unsteady positions, but so isn't Jeff with the LR stuff,because once in a blue moon a hunter will have to reach way out and a steady position and knowing the rifle and load are all that's between you and an empty tag...for some guys it's a fact of life every season.

Dink is right and many have not a clue what to do at 500-600...I have had guys owning many magnum rifles tell me they have never fired a shot at 300 yards or further.They definately read too much and shoot too little.

More often,for me anyway,chances come at mundane distances (under 300 yards)and with little time to use all the stuff considered critical to LR shooting;and the part of rifle practice I see neglected the most are the "tough-to-master" positions (like dropping quickly to a sit,off hand,kneeling, or any variation on those themes)and grabbing a field rest under pressure at moderate distances.

Most people today are infatuated with the LR stuff,tiny groups from benches and the wondrous technology of the gear.

Their own shooting skills, however, go neglected....locked into bags with scopes at known distances and immobile targets is "science"...hitting a moving buck flittng through cover off hand at 80-125 is "art".If you never lost a buck because you couldn't pull it off then you can't have hunted much..

A session of "off hand" on a pieplate at 200 yards,or from the sit at 300 without the old bipod leads to bruised ego's most times,the reason it doesn' get practiced by many and I NEVER see THOSE groups posted here.

Jeff is right in saying the moderate range stuff is the weak link once you take the security of the bipod away and substitute less solid positions...this takes practice...at least as much as the long range,and far more than sandbagged groups at 100-300; and is likely how most game is going to be taken.I have seen guys practice the LR stuff off the bench,but they aren't worth shidt off hand at 80 yards,or if an uncooperative animal offers 3-5 seconds of target opportunity.

Riflemen used to train for this stuff but I see less and less of practical field marksmanship being utilized today.

You are correct Bob

I've learned to kill stuff up close.

And hit stuff out far.

Big hole in the middle.

Nuthin' but practice Jeff....

Here ya go Blackshart, next time Im out I'll be sure to try your apple pot shots. Though it'll be hard to downgrade to apples at 75 when I find 14" gongs at 300 much funner to ring offhand with my innacurate Montana.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/archie_james_c/SAUMOFFHAND.jpg?t=1332189992

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/archie_james_c/offhand1.jpg?t=1332189860

Medal? Did someone say something about medals?

Christ I hate Blackfart, he's making me take JO's side.

TFF!

John

Great post Bob... Especially about the offhand stuff being an art. The offhand shot I took at a cow this year through some pinions at around 150 yards was humbling to say the least! I absolutely need to put it more time from unsupported field positions.

Geez...looking over the last couple pages on this thread, it looks like I missed all the phun last night...

Yeah, I'm a little freaked out... all this animosity on a JeffO thread... and it's NOT directed at Jeff!

Whippersnapper.

Is this a sign of the end of times?

Hardly!

It is the first sign of the Apocalypse....

Hey look at it this way boys at least Blackshart didn't brag about schitting his pants on this thread...


Although that was my favorite Blackheart drunk ramble.

Very good post Bob. I like the way you tried to pull all of the positive points of each poster into something useful to us all.
For me, I've had lots of fun shooting at the longer ranges, and killing a few things. My big hangup with it is trying to do it with any wind present. I literally don't have the oportunity to maintain what wind reading skills I once had. So, for me, there had better not be much wind or the shot isn't going to be attempted.
Like Jeff O, my weak shooting areas are shooting in a hurry at stuff that gives one little time. Particularly with running animals. I'll take a standing, 400-500 yd. shot w/o any wind anyday over a running shot in cover at 200 yds.
BTW, it is quite possible to close the range on bare ground even with sharp eyed critters like Pronghorn and Elk. Get close to the ground, move straight at them and hold still when they are looking at you. Have done this many times. E

Thanks,E...lots of guys on here each have useful things to say.Some times you have to pull it out of the fog of the insults and barbs.....but it's there!

Some of it is pretty funny though....better than Comedy Central!

Give him time still. He did get drunk last night.

You guys kill me........ Bob, you're right about Tanner being young and wise, but you left out "asss" after wise.

Hey c'mon JG

I felt the love from JG..

The Mayans knew.

If the world ends in ice, my hirsute hands will be warm. Take that, ya hairless bastids. Thhhptbt!!

On the other hand, if it ends in fire, I'm going up like a dry pine.

JeffO, what does "Goonie Goo Goo" mean........

And that's different from every other night how ?

Sorry Tanner, I meant to say humorous wiseassss.

I understand

That is exactly why I am a Native Virginian that lives in Oregon...

Careful Brent.. remember, Blackheart has a "drawer full of medals'... I only have a drawer full of socks and one full of underwear and T shirts... so he MUST be a better shot than I ever will be...

I shoot off a bench or hood of my 4 Runner a lot while out shooting gophers and sage rats..

but right before deer season every year, I just go around the corner to Forest Service land, staple 4 targets on a tree that I run off the internet... and then head back a 100 yds,

and then shoot 25 shots at each one off hand, from different positions...100 rounds each session...

I do that going thru maybe 1000 rounds of 22 LR over a period 10 trips out ( 2 miles from the house)...

granted I use a scope, set on 4 power...

but one would be amazed on how quickly your groups will shrink in a short period of time...

whether off a bench at long range or off hand a 100 yds..

trigger time pays BIG Dividends...

( one of my goals in my 24 Hour Campfire career is to sit down at a table over a beer with Big Schtick and Black Heart and see who is the one who has the biggest ego...)

just funnin' ya Blackheart...