3/31/12- Buy new Winchester Model 70 Sporter in 30-06 from Warehouse Sports.

Early April- Order Vortex 6.5-20x44PA Varmint Reticle from CameralandNY- commence waiting for scope to be assembled and shipped to USA

This past Saturday- Scope arrives. Bought Leupy Dual Dovetail rings/bases and some cheap Butler Creek flippy caps

I got home and installed the bases and looked down what would be the line of sight: the bases were not level to the tune of 5-7 degrees of cant. Remove bases, flip them 180 degrees: same result in same direction of cant- obviously if it were the bases the direction of cant would be reversed... the problem is the receiver.

Today- Returned to Warehouse Sports with rifle. Tried a fresh set of bases on my rifle- same problem. Try my bases on their display rifle- they sit perfectly flat. Proceed to ship rifle off to wherever for "service" (it will need to be replaced as it was either not drilled/tapped right or was machined incorrectly.

So going on about two months now to get this rig up and running and it hasn't even fired a shot. I just wish they had swapped out the rifle for a new one. Oh well- time to play the waiting game again.

Anyone else ever have this problem with the new Winchesters? This sucks.

Nope, quality has seemed above par on all the new model 70's I've owned and handled. Sorry to heay you deffinitely got a bad apple. That would piss me off too.....Hope they really make it right with you....

I'm sure it will be fine in the long run... maybe they'll give me a new rifle with a trigger that doesn't have a 6lb pull and a super boring dark stock. We'll see.

I was planning to shoot it on Sunday but obviously that didn't happen. We'll have to see what comes back to me and I'll keep you up to date.

Sorry you had problems.Please keep us informed.

I have to ask your intended use of the 6.5-20 varmint scope for a 30-06.Just curious.

Thanks, that would be cool. Keep us posted. Hopefully when you get it back, it shoots so good that you'll forget all about the negative part......

No such problems here. I mounted Talley LW on both my BACO Winchesters and they turned out perfect in every respect. I'm sure Winchester will take care of you.

My M70 FWT '06 was just fine, and I haven't put a scope on my EW .300 WSM yet. Hope to get into a FW Bob and a .264 Sporter later this year.

All of the new FN factory M70's I have been around have been excellent but they all spit out a lemon every once and a while. It's how they take care of you that really interest me.

I own exactly one Mdl 70, a Clasic 25-06, which is the most accurate factory rifle I've ever seen. I've acquired, and disposed of, about 10 others. Never again...unless it's to re-sell.

Just because I can...

Actually the Varmint Reticle is a lot thicker than I thought so who knows but I have 2 other smaller and lighter -06's that would serve better in the feld. This was a "just 'cause" rifle to mostly be a safe queen. The FWT 30-06 is where it's at!

I've not toured the FN South Carolina facility, so I'm unsure the degree of input the machine operator has beyond placing the gun part in a holding fixture and hitting the "go" button. There must be some degree of control by the operator as the photos I've seen published by FN shows the parts being held by a fixture where it appears the operator must assure everything is squared up prior to the machining process at the particular station. I think it would be interesting to see them make a rifle start to finish.

I do have a cherry picked M70 from one of the last shipments out the NH facility. I had a heads up on the plant closing prior to it going public, so I had the luxury of looking over several Safari 416s for one I was using on a semi-custom build. Even though it was the best of that particular lot, it was the worst machined M70 I had ever owned. Just about everything was machined off line with the bore axis. I'm lucky that my close friend is a Guild smiths and he completely reworked that M70 for cost of parts with no charge for labor. Otherwise, I'd never been able to afford to correct all the issues with that rifle. It is now the best M70 I've ever owned, but only after a ton of man hours and a bunch of custom work.

I suspected that the factory QC flaws found in that particular NH rifle were moreso from poor workmanship than from worn equipment. I suspect that with the new ISO 9001 standards used at the FN plant, it would be easy for the assembly line to have a machine operator with limited training for a few simple operations at his particular station. It may be easy for a new person, or someone having a bad day to fumble a bit and let the part go down the line expecting any flaws to be caught by someone else. Some of these may slip through as everyone passes the buck down the line. Yours appears to be such a case.

I'm sure they'll get you squared away.

Best

This is one of the reasons by why I tread carefully when it comes to US made rifles, these days.
Trade it & buy Sako, Tikka, Sauer or Mauser & never look back.

PS- Kimber is the only US made rifle I would buy now! And even that can bite if an old one is had......

My new Tikka. Factory ammo. Buy Tikka or Sako & never look back

This is the first "bad" report I have read about a new FN Winchester. Melvin, have you ever heard of a Tikka or Sako rifle with a problem from the factory? I have.

They are rubbish. A friend of mine had big issues with his Extreme Weather in 308Win. I will see if he can chime in.

ATM that is. But I'm sure a few good ones slip through.......LOL

Give it a few years & Winchester will get it right every time, no doubt.

Melvin24, I gotta a group like that in my wallet too but I only got one, the rest are not quite as good.......just sayin

FWIW, I'm battling my Extreme Weather 7mm-08, can't get it shooting as it should. I have it at Hill Country Rifles. They have gotten .50 groups with it using factory loads. They did thier "Accurize" job on it. I will have it back in a few weeks, Hopefully I can duplicate.

So have I...

You can easily explode most any sporting rifle with factory ammo when it has an obstructed barrel. Enjoy 4,000 frames per second at someone else's expense.

Best

Man, I wish I were rich enough to have hill country work on my rifles....well maybe not....

The M70 fares no better. Any of them can become a pipe bomb.





As to the original poster, every maker has some degree of flaws which slip through the cracks. It would be impossible for the South Carolina facility to have zero quality control issues. I'm sure the currenty QC is head and shoulders above the later days of the NH production, but even the current production will have issues now and then. It's how they correct these issues which separates the really good from the not so good.

Best

+1

I'll agree with you on that Gary. And Beretta Has been doing a lot of "Ignoring" about the ejection problems on the Sako 85 rifles. But as Melvin says, trade it or buy a Sako and don't look back!

My 300wsm extreme weather was giving me fits until I realized it didn't like 180 gr accubonds. It will put 3 nosler partitions into less than an inch and will pretty much do the same with hornadys.

I had a .243 fw that was a 2 inch gun at first. I got a tubes kit and than developed a 85 gr Barnes load that would consistently go moa or less.

I would definitely buy another and may someday if I can get rid of the kimber bug. :-)

What makes a gun blow up like this?

So Melvin doesn't trust American made rifles, but if he bought one, it would be a Kimber.

I now understand how Obama was elected.

Barrel obstructions are the most common. The Sako/Tikka barrel issue was a specific lot of stainless steel with fluting. They performed a recall for a certain set of serial numbers. Apparently, their supplier provided out of spec grade steel for the application. My point in posting it was that there is no such thing as a perfect manufacture.

As some have said, every company makes lemons.

I am sure Winchester will make this right for me and if they do not then their company name will be rightfully dragged through the mud here. There is a good reason everyone here loves Winnies and I don't think it's cause they make crap that doesn't shoot/hunt.

I've never had issues with getting firearms serviced when necessary with any company- few times though that may have been. If I'd have wanted a Sako I'd have bought one. I wanted a Win M70 in the classic 30-06 sporter weight, my choice, so I bought it. I am giving Winchester the benefit of the doubt here.

As I have said, I'm not happy but I will give Winchester the chance they and any other company deserve to make the customer happy within a reasonable time frame. I am hoping to have something back by the end of June. We'll see. I'll keep you all updated.

And with regard to Melvin- the Sako might be a really nice rifle that shoots great, but it didn't "do it" for me aesthetically like say a Remmie 700, Ruger 77 or the Winchesters do... and if it doesn't "do it" aesthetically then I won't pull it out of the safe for any reason.

LOL

Fare enough. I hope Winchester fixes your rifle.

Good stalkin men

Update:

Since Winchester still had not received my rifle (or at least logged it in) as of last Sunday, I contacted the store that sent it in. They informed me it was not sent to Winchester, but to a friggin gunsmith in CA. In friggin CA!?!?!?! I'll never get it out of gun jail.

So I called this gunsmith. They have it and looked at it since the store had called about it and so had I. The smith there said it needs to be sent to Winchester. Well... duh! I figure I'm lucky if I have a rifle in my hands by the end of August.


To be continued...

Damn man. I truly feel for you. That would piss me off. I had to send a new rifle to a "factory authorized repair center" aka gunsmith wannabe and had nothing but problems......This was for a new Weatherby though. Hope Winchester gets this thing back to you ASAP!!!!!!!!!

We should have some reps here that could handle problems like this for us...Sometimes we do get lemons, no matter who it is made by....I think we have a Nikon representative in the optics forums but I havent seen any for the rifle manufactures. There may even be one here for bushnell but when I was having problems with my elite 4200 (their premiere top of the line lifetime warranty scope ha ha), the pos crawled under a rock and hid........

Just a rant I had to get out LOL

IN GENERAL, when one purchases a Sako, Tikka, Blaser, Mauser M03 or Sauer there will be generally less issues........out of the box. And as much as I dig USA made rifles the Europeans just built better rifles per average.........But one can get lucky as I did on my third Kimber. First 2 where [bleep], current 270 is a ripper!!!


On the issue with Sako medium(30-06 family). This IMO has been read into far too much....... Firstly. There are soooooooo many of these out there it would shock, but we hear of few problems......... Secondly. Why does it even matter if it just hits the scopes ocular?(are we hunting DG....If so you should have a Mauser M98, CRF Model 70 or the like....). I have had a few rifles do this now, with only 1 rifle spinning the fired cases back into the port(landing backwards). Nosler 48 Custom. This problem was addressed when I installed higher mounts.......But from what I have read & gather this is not even happening to the Sako unless held on a certain angle. LOL

You will also find. Many brands of rifles ejecting empty cases don't just fly out & miss everything......Some empties hit the lips of the port(side & rear) & I have even had em hit my cycling hand too............ So is this classed as a flaw. I think not!
On that note. The smaller opening 'ejection port' seen on Sauer 202 & Tikka T3 is superior here for 2 reasons. It seems to be much more precise in 'flinging' empties out....... And these style of ports are far better when stalking through the thick stuff........... Also very water tight, compared to most. Blaser R93 & R8 also dominate here! But alas, harder to top load.........

Food for thought lads

I do hope Browning/FN gets you squared away. Nobody enjoys having their NIB rifle go down for needed replacement or repairs while not being sure of the outcome. We are not clairvoyant, and being we don't have a vetted track record on how Browning/FN deals with QC issues on the new M70, it could lead to some felt frustration. I would expect their warranty department to want this issue corrected with the end result being a satisfied customer. Hopefully it will be sooner than later.

Keep us posted as this can be helpful for future reference.

Best

When my Kimber 8400 had an 'off centre' bases hole, I was told. "Just use windage adjustable bases". Which did certainly solve this problem. But why should I. I use Talley UL mounts exclusively...........

I guess life is full of compromises, especially when dealing with rifles........

I would have told the fella that said that to buy this rifle for his momma and let her use windage adjustable bases.

Curious here, but why didn't you just send it to Winchester yourself? It would have been repaired and sent directly back to you.. Now there's going to be 2nd and 3rd parties in this deal from one end to the other.. Winchester, when they finally get it, will have to return it to the guy in CA.. Then he'll have to ship it back to your dealer.. It may finally get to you by fall, maybe.. I wonder who's going to pay for all that shipping?

In the meantime, you could have shipped it to Winnie, and gotten it back a whole lot quicker - directly back to you..

No disrespect intended, but the FN plant doesn't take them back because they are not actually "Winchester". Browning is an office location, and therefore their standard Customer Service protocol is to have the rifle shipped to the nearest available Authorized Repair Center. Directly from the Winchester Customer Service Q&A, Question #215:

Where do I take my gun to get warranty and non-warranty service?

Whenever you have a problem with the function of your Winchester brand rifle or shotgun you should have it checked by one of the Authorized Repair Centers near you. Carefully follow the packing and shipping instructions before mailing your rifle.

Edit:

Okay, I do see where you can bypass the Repair Center step if you complete the below form for approval to send the rifle to Winchester's current service department which is located:


3005 Arnold-Tenbrook Road
Arnold, Missouri 63010-4728
1-800-322-4626

http://www.winchesterguns.com/customerservice/partsservice/support/winchester_return_form.pdf

Hope this helps

Redneck and Gary:

When I returned to the store with the UNFIRED rifle, I was looking to see what they were willing to do about it. They wanted to pack it up and send it in right away for me. I figured, GREAT!! I don't have to pay shipping, right?

I would have sent it directly to Winchester/FN but was curious to see if the store I bought it from would help out. Not in a huge hurry to get it back. I just started reloading and got another new rifle setup (in a new to me caliber) so I have plenty to play with working up loads for several calibers. I definitely won't be short a rifle this fall at all and can wait. It just sucks donkey parts for now...

I do believe what you did is the route Winchester Customer Service suggests. Take it to the Dealer first. If they have no fix, it is sent to a Repair Center second. If the Repair Center has no fix, it gets approval to go to the Service Center. Or, you compile the form and get approval to send it directly to the Service Center. Not sure how things would be billed, but if it is a manufacture defect, I'd expect Browning to foot the bill.

Keep us posted, it would be helpful for anyone needing future warranty repairs.

Best

Indeed I will keep everyone posted. That's the reason I started this thread (other than to b!tch about my problem ).


Will post more when I know more.

I thought you might have missed that when I read the first paragraph or two.. If it would have been mine - it would have been on the way to Arnold, MO., asap..

I hear ya.. Too bad the store didn't tell you they weren't gonna ship it to Winnie... At the same time, too bad you didn't think to ask 'em just where they WERE gonna send it.. Oh well..

I can sympathize.. I just hope it gets done right..

Spoke with Winchester today- they have the rifle and "it is ready for final inspection." Same f*****g rifle. The guy didn't have more info me right now, have to wait until final inspection later this week. I'm gonna have a cow and crap a ton of bricks if I get this same rifle back. More (and hopefully better info) to come late this week/early next week.

At least Winchester was prompt about getting it logged in and at least a preliminary inspection done right quick. That's the only good indication so far other than almost no wait time to speak with someone in the repair dept via phone. That's a good sign.

More to follow,
Big Fish

Next time you talk to one of the people at winchester, politely tell them that you have thousands of people watching this thread...I'm hoping you come out smelling like a rose on this deal. That rifle should have never left the damn factory like that....They need to make it right....As much as I'm a winchester guy, I'm still rooting for you bigfish.....Hope everything works out in your favor.....

You might also consider getting a hold of someone way up in the main Corporate Customer Service dept. of Warehouse Sports and politely explain your dilema. Sometimes a little patience on your behalf which you have been all along, and a sympathetic ear on their behalf will likely result in a phone call from Warehouse Sports Corporate office to Win./FN that may solve your problem toot sweet. If it isn't resolved to your satisfaction you also have the last resort of contacting the Business and Consumer Affairs Dept.of your States Attorney Generals office and proceeding from there.
I hope that you will be made whole and everything will be sorted out without having to resort to more drastic measures.

Best,
BD

Yup BSA, that's another reason why I'm glad I started this thread. Insurance- just in case.


But I did speak with Winchester today... again.

My rifle is in the manager's office and is going to be replaced with a new one. It has to go to their service center/gunsmith in CA first, then back to the store and I am sure I'll have to do paperwork since it's a new serial #. So far so good, just taking a lot of time and never should have happened in the first place. Will update when I know more.


P.S.- I won't be disappointed if I get a supergrade back

I really wish someone at winchester was actually reading this thread. Wouldn't that be nice if they picked out an extra nice one for your troubles. I'd be happy if they sent one with a stock like my 2008 limited edition but that probably won't happen....You could always hope though :



You are right, it should have never happened though. I too am a bit dissapointed with winchester over this...

BSA that is a great looking rifle.

BSA- I'll second stray round on this one- beautiful. If something like that happens I'd probably have a heart attack and die.

But something like that should happen when you get a lemon. I'd be happy with a letter of apology honestly. We'll have to see in the next few weeks.

It will probably come into the "gunsmith" in CA where it will probably sit for 3-4 weeks before being logged in. Then another 2 weeks to get to the store in Federal Way, WA.

"shop Cal worthington ford on federal way! The only way!"

Sorry, flashbacks...



I hope you get it all squared away soon.

They said it would take another 3 weeks to get one off the line for me before they sent it back. Calling their corporate office right now...


Of course those people are in central time zone and have gone home for the day... have to deal with them tomorrow. They said they were going to replace it but this is now taking too long. It's getting a little ridiculous when they've decided to replace it but have to wait another three weeks, then they send it to the "smith" in CA. then back to the store. Maybe by the time I retire...

I also called Wholesale Sports to get it working from their end as well. Should have more info by friday. Nearing the end of my patience on this one.

My buddy just got his CZ 550 fixed by CZ in Kansas, free shipping both ways, under 3 weeks and he had it back in his hands. Might have to buy a CZ...

Good luck with it. I am very sorry you are having such issues with your rifle!

You know, I don't mind when companys f**k up as long as they fix or replace the problem item in a prompt manner.
I bought a Bombardier atv when they came out & expected a couple issues being a new model, but when the VR went & I was told they didn't have any because they were a new model & it would take 3 months to get one
There was 5,000? a day rolling of the assembly line & I always wondered what VRs they were putting on them! But they already had my $$ so I was at the bottom of the waiting list....never again Bombardier!!
So far Winchester hasn't shown you any particular good service, good thing it wasn't close to hunting season!!
You should get a model upgrade for your patience.
You appear to have good communication skills & have called all the right people & your still waiting, wonder how long it would take Win to fix the problem from someone with less tactical skills

Spoke to Winchester. They're not expecting the next batch from the SC factory to arrive until mid August. Supposedly my rifle has top priority or some BS. Then back to the gunsmith in CA to probably sit for 4 weeks before being logged in and sent back to me.

I'm going to speak to Wholesale Sports on Friday. Go from there. Make this thread known to Wholesale Sports and Winchester. I am heated right now. You can't sell someone a lemon and not make it right.

Sorry

Ours was perfect...

a sample of one

Snake