After years of using my 243 for deer hunting I'm starting to wonder if it is going to be replaced by the 223. The 243 has always been the old standard for the minimum cartridge suitable for deer sized game, with the promise of light recoil for women, children, and those who are recoil shy. With the advent of all the new bullets and the good reports of performance I see here on the Campfire it seems that the 223 can step in and do the same job that the 243 was so good at. So what do you guys think? Does the 243 offer enough over the 223 at longer ranges to keep it's spot? Are most deer shot at distances that the extra power and wind bucking characteristics are of little practical difference? Just some thoughts from me as I continue to see what kind of accuracy my new 223 is capable of.

The .223 can not beat the .243 at longer ranges period. This from a guy with five 223's and only one .243.

Run the long range ballistics on them. The .223 is perfectly accurate and capable of great mid-range results but can not compete the further out you go. ie. wind drift, energy etc etc

If the ranges are modest, no reason for larger than the 223. At longer ranges, I like the uberfast 25-284 calibers's myself (on deer). No 243's in the stable here.

After the .223 Remington, the next cartridge I start to consider is the .270 Winchester. I don't give much thought to those in between these days.

Hunting big game with a .22 CF is for those who don't care about the game suffering, want to brag to the unknowing that they did it with a .22 or just don't know any better.

The .22 CF is not even legal in most places for common sense reasons.

In New England most of the states have a 6mm minimum for use on deer, so I don't see the .223 taking over around here at least.

I think that the .243 Win. is the minimum for deer sized game ! It will never be replaced by the pipsqueak .223 .

I'm not trolling for another 223 for deer argument. The fact is that there are many who have attested to the 223's ability to perform well on deer and just was wondering if others think that it could replace the 243 as the default minimum standard for deer. The trending on here seems to support that possibilty.

Nope. Certainly not in the Northeast anyway.

Just for the record, my standard answer about power levels of hunting rifles used to be, "use the most powerful cartridge that you can shoot well". I can shoot up to 300 magnums reasonably well myself and have used the 30-06 more than any other cartridge. That said, the amount of good reviews on the 223 with the right bullets is making me take notice. I'm an old dog.......but I can learn new tricks and am not stuck in my ways. (not too stuck anyway).

I beg to differ....

1+

No way, I have both and like both calibers. Just not a fan of the hot .22 CFs on deer sized game. Nobody will ever hunt deer with a .22 at our deer camp.

NB

How so?

I think that as the AR15 platfrom becomes more popular for hunting so will the 223, as the current trend has shown. It will never replace the 243 of course, but it already has taken some of the market away from that cartridge. I hear of lots of folks using a 22 centerfire these days vs 10 years ago. Most states allow the use of 223CF cartridges as well. The ones that don't are the exception, not the norm.

I have used the 223 on both deer and hogs sucessfully. I have never felt handicapped and the animals died no slower or faster.

I save my 223 for coyote hunting and target practice. I could do just fine if using it for bigger critters, but I got better setups for that. For high volume shooting though, the 223 would be hard to top.

Last count I knew of the .22 CF or smaller as a few state "Any Centerfire" was legal for deer in 38 States and a few Providences in Canada. So I think that is what fatjack34 "begs to differ" on.

Couldn't miss a chance to shout his "wisdom" could he?

I seriously feel sorry for the guy -

Is the .223 going to replace the .243 for like utilization?

Not a chance...

no chance. although the 223 kills deer in the hands of a skilled marksman, the 243 is a much better choice. 95-100 grain bullets or 55-60 grain bullets, pure common sense says you will get a more humane kill with a 243 if you are comparing apples to apples when choosing said bullet for either rifle. lenny

I haven't shot a deer with my 223 yet, but I am sure I will this year. While the 243 offers better performance at longer ranges, I think the 223 has its benefits too. In the time I have had my 223 I have shot it more than I have any of my other CF's. The low costs of reloading and pleasant noise/recoil allow me to practice a LOT. I know a 223 will have little trouble putting down one of our small bodied does here. All I have to do is find the right bullet.

I don't think that the 223 will replace the 243 in popularity for deer. But, if all goes well for me, I could see myself using it to fill the freezer quite often. I think there is a lot to like about the 223.

No.

No problem, but he did not provide any specifics. Possibly Vermont, but not NH, CT, or ME. For big game that is.

It has been a long time since I read that book. IIRC, his problem was with a .220 Swift and 45 grain cup-and-core bullets at 4100 fps that that didn't survive impact with game.

As I remember the book, Ruark spent most of the hunt drunk, and shot a warthog in the azz with a Swift. Strangely, it didn't work. Quite the role model for Savage 99 to get his rifle advice from.

I prefer personal experience. My experience has shown that the 223 with good bullets works just fine for deer.

No

prairie goat,
It's been so long since I read it that I can't remember. Did he just try it that one time or were there several failures with that rifle?

Having shot stuff with both I lean toward the .243. The .223 will do it most of the time but when its a long shot late in the day the .243 just seems to me to be more sensible.

A 220 Swift would be better than a .223.

Bullsheet

.22 cf are ok in NH, ME, .... MA is just weird! I should have clarified.

No need to clarify to anyone around here!

The .22cf may be legal, but I don't see it replacing the .243 anytime soon.

George

Thanks for those details. It has been a while since I checked. Anyway, I have only run .22 CF for yotes and chucks. .22 is not on my radar for much else.

Hey Geo! Long time pal. Hopefully today finds you well and safe! 25 years working hand in hand with LEO's has proven time and again, that you folks are truly our last line of defense! Hats off!

Back to the topic.....243 is a proven classic but I think the tide is turning because of the flood of marketing and endless choices in 223.

As for New England....ONLY CT requires .243 and above. MA and RI are shotgun/ML only and do not count. ME, NH, VT....center fire only is the restriction for caliber, which is inclusive of .22 cf's and actually, ME may still allow .22 magnum rim fire!

I debated breaking out the .223 Montana last year but couldn't bring myself to do it. I did hunt the .260.....baby steps for a guy who likes his .358s.

Time will tell!

BTW, if you check the fine print you'll find that nothing other than the '06 with 180s is allowed north of the Notch (at least that's what I keep telling Bob).

George

The 243 also enjoys new and better bullets.I would have no problem shooting a deer with a 223 but I have a 243 so dont bother.

It's been some time since I read it. I'm not around my copy of the book right now; I'll sure look it up tomorrow.

I've often thought about grabbing my swift out of the safe to take to the deer woods and have also thought about getting a .223 for deer, I come to my senses as always when I have to dig around my 30's, 270, 6.5's, 25's, and 6mm cals. There are far too many mild recoiling cals to concider before I choose a 22. I'm sure their adequate for deer but I cringe thinking about drawing down on a 200+ lbs 170 in. class whitetail with a 22. Just me and it may never happen but if it does I plan to be holding a .243 or larger tube in my hands.

Only on 24hrcampfire....and only to pimp for Barnes.

Understand that other than 1 post by a author of a thread telling of his failure to cleanly kill his deer with 223 loads he got at whatevermart you won't hear of the failures. With the ridicule and countless people telling him he is a dumbass for using this load or that he is not gonna owe up to a failure again.So are all the glowing reports adequately countered with factual failures? I have both and like the 243 on deer and antelope and will keep using the 223 for the varmints. magnum Man

Debates over cartridge diameters that can kill a deer have been ongoing since the thirty caliber smokeless cartridges came out. Think of the 45/70 versus 30-30.

When the 243 came out in the 1950's it was a commercial success but hunters were skeptical. Now with todays improved bullets that argument has been settled.

Will the 243 Winchester with a 100 grain NP bullet kill a Deer BETTER than a .223 Remington with a 60 grain Nosler Partition bullet?

I don't know how good a deer cartridge the 223 is. I'd need to hear more actual examples by hunters who have used them. Anyone can have an opinion. However because we hunt with a 243 doesn't mean that you can say that the 223 won't work.

An older friend of mine approaching 70 years of age made the statement that with some of the new bullets today he believes his 243 will kill as effectively the 270 he's hunted with for more than 30 years. Maybe this thread should be will the 243 replace the 270 in the lower 48?

As far as the 223 being used to kill deer more than the 243......I really don't believe the idea of that is too far fetched by any means. Look on any survival websight and the 223 is the deer rifle of choice....Not to mention I think it is probably one of the number one selling rifles in the united states today and I'm pretty sure most who are buying a 223 are not preparing for varmint season.

Shod

I think that with the "newer" and better bullets available and the popularity and proliferation of the AR platform its a very real possibility.

To answer the OP's question, I'm not worried one bit the .243 Win is much too versatile a cartridge to be replaced by one that's inferior in many ways..................Hb

I really doubt that that the 223 will ever entirely "replace" the 243. First of all there are tens of millions of 243 chambered rifles out there.

But I could be wrong. The 243 did drive the 250 Savage and 257 Roberts into obscurity. And the AR-15 is greatly popular

Sportdog, LMAO, no way.

Gunner

I only have a personal experience base of two white tail deer killed with a .223 here on our farm here in KY. Both required a second shot for a finisher. Factory Rem 55gr Corelokts. OTOH, I have a significant string of one shot kills on the same deer, under the same conditions, with multiple .243 rifles and 95gr Partitions. No comparison.

I enjoy shooting accurate .223 target rifles. But here in my neck of the woods, if I absolutely, positively want it dead, the first time, the .243 gets the nod...

I have switched to Nosler 100 grain Partitions for the .243, when I use it - seldom. I have killed wild goats with a little .218 Bee using head shots, but there are better game rounds than .22 CFs. IMO, jack

Shoot a Yote with a 243 and he melts in his tracks, shoot one with a 223 and he's likely to run.

Plenty of Yote hunting videos to confirm it.

"Holy leopard-print thong, Batman, That would sure upset Ingwe".

The .223 has about 2/3 the energy of the .243.

Nope. Use both a lot on the ranch. I bought a .243 semi-auto instead of a "standard .223 AR" for pigs. As many deer and pigs as we have killed with a .222 and .223, neither is close to a .243.

stumpy

.223 not legal in VA.

"Rifles used for deer or bear must be .23 caliber or larger."

Will one of the 3 people that Don doesn't have on ignore tell him for the millionth time, that 22's are legal in 37 states, and about half the remaining states are shotgun only.

I've had more deer drop at the shot with s 223AI than anything else I have used to date, and I've used a bunch.

Drilling shoulders and 200 pound deer don't scare me in the least, if they do others then so be it. There is nothing inhumane or 'iffy' about taking one into the deer woods, that's for damn sure.

No doubt the 243 is good and trumps the 223 at longer distances, but not by a crazy about. 75Amax needs and extra 3MOA dialed in to hit at 1K then a 243 shooting 105gr Amax. House that same 75 in a 22/250 and the 243 comes up short.

I think I will try those 75gr A MAx's in my new to me 220 Swift with its 8 twist barrel. Might be loads of fun. Just got the scope for it last night, found an older USA made NITB Redfeild 6-18 Gloss for $200.00 and put it up on the gun last night.

Back on topic, I do think that the 270/280/30/06 class cartridges are seeing a lot less representation in the deer camps as there is not as much need for that much power and destruction and recoil for shooting a mere deer in most areas.

Out here we still have a lot of 257WBY, 264 WinMag and various 7mm's on the scene but this region is the exception rather than the rule with very large bodied Mule Deer and wide open grassland/CRP ground that typically does not allow for close stalking.

If 224 caliber rifles were legal out here I would give the Swifty a try on a doe tag.

I've not heard of a single incident where one sold their 243 to replace it with a 223.

Wel here is one for ya... When my Pastor saw the terminal damage and quick kill that his 223 wrought upon a large Corsican ram that his daughter shot last year with a new to him 223 and Barnes VorTex ammo, he traded to me his Model 88 in 243 that had been his daughters deer rifle. I gave him a PMR 30 for it and promptly re sold the model 88. Now, they (FOUR of them- daughters that is) will be usuing the 223 as the family deer rifle. He also sold his 300WSM and is back to his trusty 270 with 110gr Barnes bullets for big game hunting.

The game HAS been changed by todays much better bullets.

That showcases the problem with using a one-shot sample.

Huh. Guess all those coyotes I've shot with a 223 were supposed to run. Instead they just died. I didn't have to watch a video to figure that one out.

Don't think so and I've been a 22 fan for more years than I care to remember.I've successfully used my Swift on deer and speed goats since the mid 70's with cup/core stuff but the the 6mm's are and have been very popular all over the country and kill stuff quite well.I think for the most part it hinges on factory over the counter availability and we sometimes tend to forget that lots of folks have never heard of a Partition,TSX...etc,etc.

no

.223's tumble.

Probably depends on the twist.

I've got two 223AI's and only one 243AI so the answer clearly has to be yes.

Maybe the 223 has a chance here on the interwebs, but for most regular ol Joes, the 243, '06, and 270 are still it. And in my experience, the 243 shooters STILL catch hell from everyone else for not bringing enough gun. Where I hunt, you would probably not be allowed to hunt if you showed up with a 223,and I hunt in Texas where the 22-250 is considered equal with the 30-06,go figure.

I personally would rather shoot a deer with a 357 rifle than a 223

That's because there are a WHOLE bunch of idiots just like Don.

Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a winner.

The 223 won't replace the 243, but the 22-250 will.

Maybe the 223 will replace the 6x45.

Pete

I bet a good many of those goofball survivalist types that are buying up all the Ar15s don't even know what a .243win. is.

Jack,

Went back and checked all states in NE and you are correct. Have not looked in a while.

Yes, the dreaded and world feared "Dummy Bullets"

Gunner

Chipper....you and I both know that rules and regs change all the time depending on who holds the hammer in tha segment of government!!!! Give it a bit....will change sure enough again!

This^. With knowledgeable shooters the .223 replaced the .243 a decade ago. Of course, the .243 replaced the .270, and so forth...

I've always been a .243 Fan. Been dropping deer since the late 80's using the cartridge. It's inherently accurate & simply kills.

I'm sure if I started out with a .223 I'd feel the same, I just stuck with what has worked for me. Nope the .223 will not replace the .243, they both are fine cartridges for whitetail IMO.

Yall can use the .223 all you want, but I do own 2 ARs and have very limited experience shooting deer with them and it wasn't good. It is however the cat's meow for yotes and groundhogs. I'll stick with my different 7mms for deer.

I'm not sure what a .243win. is but I have heard of the 243 win. ! I'm assuming this is what you were trying to say?

Shod

The 223 is gaining popularity in the woods due to the gaining popularity of the AR platform, not due to it somehow being a better deer killer than a 243.

Having shot deer with both, the 243 is the better all-around chambering by quite a bit.

That is a truly amazing contribution.

And that's after editing!

Looks like I've been missing all the fun! Didnt have time to read this whole thread, but whatever Steelhead said....+1

Cheap ammo is the 223's claim to fame do to it's military use, much like 9mm pistol ammo. On game, the 223 couldn't shine the shoe's of the 243.

Kinda like fishing for marlin with a bream buster.. better tools are available.

The 223 can shine pretty good in its own right with a 75 grain bullet and 25 to 26 grains of powder.It isnt a 243 but it is not dull.I hear the cheap ammo reasoning all the time but dont see anybody shooting it except armchair warriors.

Pretty sure I don't run cheap ammo through mine.

Not even CLOSE.

First deer I killed with a .22CF was in 1967 with a .222 Rem and 50gr Norma factory load. One shot DRT. Have done many since with .222 and .223 with no bad results. Didn't even realize this was a controversial practice until the internet came along. I've got a whole safe full of choices and use them all, but probably .223 half the time. 65 gr SGK is my bullet of choice and I don't worry about drilling shoulders.

Tell me what I said was wrong as I'm all ears.

Cheap ammo has nothing to do with the 223 being popular for deer hunting.

There is a pretty wide margin there... maybe fishing for bass with a brim pole

There's no such thing as "fishing for bass". It's BASS FISHIN!

Maybe I'm missing the point as I just saw this thread. Are you saying that the 223 is a better deer getter than the 243 ? I haven't read through this thread so perhaps I've assumed the question was just about popularity ?

When did it matter what was "better" for shooting deer as long as what you use works?? This issue gets weirder every time it comes up.

I'll be glad for deer season to open...

Nice green carp

That sure the hell ain't surprising. Don't try walking and chewing gum at the same time or you'll surely suffocate.

Dixie boy huh?

More shear genius.

But 6x45's are, and tempting...

Yep, fished Montgomery Lake more times than I can count but never could come close to George Perry's big'un.

I used a 243 wiggle-fish to about 5 1/2 feet. I don't believe a Chub perch 223 would've done it.
DMc

Creek Chub Fintail Shiner... Nuff said

The 6x45 is a very interesting round. I built one for my wife as a low recoil deer/coyote rig. She's happy with it, accuracy is great. It was a good build.

I kill lots of deer. More and more of them are killed with 223's. Use bonded or Barnes bullets and they will generally penetrate close to 20 inches and produce a fairly wide wound channel.



From my not limited killing experience the 243 Win with the right bullet is a solid 600 yard cartridge on med/big game and even further with a couple of bullets. The 223 is solid to about half that. With 62gr federal Fusion, Partitions, etc. and especially with the 75gr AMAX I don't have any heartburn about killing a deer at 400 yards. With a Barnes or like bullet I prefer to keep it around 300 or under.


I would rather use a 223 on ANY NA animal where I get to pick the rifle, scope and bullet than use any other cartridge where someone else picks the rifle, scope and bullet.





62gr Fusion after penetrating almost 20 inches of a deer. 80 yards hard quartering too. Penetrated near shoulder, two ribs, lungs, two ribs, and was found under skin on offside.

GFY!

The REAL problem is that Joe Avg hunter ain't going to Cabela's with his kid asking for a .223. Most who turn their nose up on the .223 don't see the light with goodhand loads and an X or Nosler.

Besides, Joe avg mainly thinks .243, .270, 30-06, .308

Brainwashing maybe...<grin>

I do not think these would be the same in .223

1955 Model 70
1957 Model 88

Yeah, pretty pictures as always, but have nothing to do with the subject.

Yep, instead of a 10 pound LONG action 243 you'd have a 10 pound long action 223....

Might even weigh a skosh more cause of the littler hole going down the barrel...

I was going all up, factoring the lesser amount of brass, powder, bullet weight and of course small rifle primers...

Gotcha!

I think you are right.....

Laffin'.

Per usual, most anti-.223 posters have zero experience with the cartridge on anything bigger than a coyote, though a few admit to having "very limited" experience. I'd go back and add them up to prove the point, but it's waste of time and cyberspace.

Oh, and my friend prarie goat was right: Ruark used his .220 Swift once on a warthog, trying to shoot it up the ass with woodchuck bullets, and then never shot it again on the safari.

I have only limited experience with a .223...but I'm not 'anti'....

I did forget to take into account the added steel around the bolt face, so you're likely more righter...

Yeah...but I'll bet they'd be a loose twist, so they need less steel in the lands....

I've never used a 223 as a BGR but with a 60 grain Nosler Partition round I don't see why it wouldn't kill a deer.

Don't forget magazine spacers.

It is a common misconception that you must use a Barnes or Partition to make a .224 suitable for big game. Such is not the case.

55gr. V-max

Also good are the 65 gr. Sierra Gamekings and the 64 gr. Winchester Power Points. Those two and the 60 gr. NPT's are my three favorites in the .223 and .22-204 for hogs and such. Never killed a deer with a .224, but those bullets would sure do the job.

I choose between these bullets by which one a certain rifle seems to like the best. IMHO, they all three perform well.

DF

Except, .270 Win...

DF

I've used the plain ol' 55 and 60 grain Hornady SP, 62 TSX, 40 grain Ballistic Tip, and 52 grain HPBT Black Hills Factory ammo for deer and antelope at 223 speeds, all seemed to work fine. If shooting for bone I would sure prefer a TSX in the chamber, but for standard behind the shoulder shots, the others work fine.

my objections with .22 centerfires on deer are the same as what others used to complain about with the .243...

if used with the wrong bullet, results can often be other than what the shooter plans on.

too many shooters of the 50s and 60s read about the lethality of the .243 and picked up the cheapest box off the shelf at the co-op to go deer hunting. the results were usually a DRT deer or a total mess.
the DRTs occurred often enough that they got more attention than anything else, but in a lot of peoples memories, the .243 is a useless deer cartridge.

and the .22s in this regard are just like that only more so...
there is nothing wrong with the rifle or the cartridge, per se...

for deer, i was against the .22s for years simply because i deemed them a poacher's choice.
but there are areas that i hunt that if i go back there, i will use a .22 cf...

gotta grab the dinner pail and head out...

Seems poachers like flashlights also...

Those guys, when asked what they're using, they'll reply in millions of candle power. Their rifle will be a .22 WMR.

DF

I've taken a deer and several hogs with the .223 using 55 grain TSXs. They seem to work as well as anything else I've shot them with. One went through both shoulder blades on a hog, a shot I've seen stop a Remington 405 grain SP out of a 45/70.

I do find myself waiting for an ideal shot with the .223 when I'd take a shot requiring more penetration with a .260 or up.

(I've not shot anything with a .243, so I can't comment on it.)

precisely so, and i personally don't use those while i'm shooting deer either...

I've killed hundreds of deer with a 223 and have seen other hundreds killed with a 22-250. So my answer is yes they kill deer but not as well as a 243 which I've also killed plenty and seen plenty more killed with. No the 243 is in no danger of being replaced but I would agree that with better bullets performance is enhanced. Bullet choice is another topic that is always a hard choice because its hard to find that one bullet that does everything esp when its on the small side. For example if I were to shoot directly into shoulders I'd prefer a tsx or nos pt but with that same bullet move back 4" and youre going to have a blood trail to follow and prob not a very big one. Not saying the animal wont die or be found but it will run most of the time. I have never used premium bullets on deer out of a 22 cal but have used many other types. Most of my deer were killed with 55 nos solid base or 55 hdy sp. I don't really know why you would want to hunt seiously with a 223 when there are better tools. That being said the bulk of my rifles are in 22 or less and 30 cal. With a few 7-08s 7 rem mags and a 7stw. I'm not a 243 or 270 fan either....whoa I just bashed them both in the same sentence. I hope I don't get removed from the fire.

I am always amazed when I hear of a hunter that has killed hundreds of deer and or seen hundreds more....now I am not judging or disputing....but unless there is special circumstances, I just can't wrap my head around how that occurs in a lifetime that is not that long........again....that is just me and I live and hunt in NH.

Damage hunts.

I should have known that was coming. I grew up on an apple orchard in WV. My uncle owned another orchard right down the road and all my relatives and friends were big (for the area) farmers. We were issued permits by the hundred. Every evening after school I hunted (shot) deer. Just for the record these deer were not shot and picked out of the fields and put in piles or holes either. (which was done on many neighboring properties)
It was a great oppurtunity for some practice. My dad wasnt that interested in shooting them but myself and my uncle had a blast. He taught me how to reload and was big into shooting. We would see them at 100 yards and drive the truck to an even 300 or whatever we felt like depending on what we were shooting or just felt like. A few times we would take our big guns and move to an even 500. Those were the good old days. I would shoot them with my 7stw or he would get them with his 700 classic in 264 win mag. Both topped with the old 6.5-20 vari x iiis. But most of them died to my 223 and his 22-250 and his old tang safety ruger varmint in 243. good times indeed.

Depends on where you live too. Some states have very liberal tags/bag limits.

I just get upset when I see results and opinions drawn from....that one time this happened or that one deer I shot 2 seasons ago. I see the same thing with broadheads and archery tackle. I have buddies that won't use this or that or swear by this or that all because of that one experience.

Here in East Haddam, I see no problem with using a 223 on the local white tails. Thou I don't think the 243 is going away anytime soon.

Hey man....I hope you didn't think I was ripping on you...not the case. I specifically made comment on special circumstance and that sure as hell qualifies! People have farms and orchards and deer are crop busters...I get it. In NH we have neither liberal bag limits, nor long seasons and I have not heard of many situations that called for special permits....not saying it doesn't happen here or elsewhere....I know it does....but I have not been a part of such an adventure or know first hand of anyone that has. That is all I was saying.

That said, I have heard some stories or inflated egos of some Klondikes with the whack em and stack em going on in their dream scape!

And I'm always amazed when people who kill less deer in a lifetime than some 12 year olds kill in a single year where I'm from, give pointed opinions on what is and what isn't capable. If you've only killed ten or twenty deer in your lifetime you don't have much killing experience. Not a dig or slam but if I were a mechanic and only had worked on ten cars I wouldn't have much mechanicing experience.

I grew up and live in a state where the limit is 3 deer a day, every day, for nearly 4 straight months. That isn't say just because someone has killed a hundred deer that they know the first thing about guns, shooting, equipment, etc. I worked crop damage with guys whose ballistic knowledge could fit in a teacup. Those same dudes might shoot ten or twenty deer in a day. I eventually came to the conclusion that there is a difference between killing one deer 20 times, and killing 20 deer.


Between our seasons and crop damage, I can't think of a cartridge I use that I don't have at least 25 deer on.....


Now having done it I don't quite agree with predmaster on the 223. Of course it's doesn't damage as mush tissue as a 243 with good bullets but it damages enough. Way more then an arrow and I would rather kill deer with a the right bullet out of a 223 than an 85gr TSX from a 243......

Just so we're clear fatjack34, I wasn't referencing you with the above....

Hell, I'd kill 4 a year in Alaska and see another 10 killed. Florida allowed 2 a day and where I'm at now the limit is 3 doe a day.

The 243 has earned it's stripes, and is a classic.

It will outlive all of us, and then some.

Can't argue with that Master Guns

260 replaced my 243 and 708, I like a tweener.....

I am giving the .223 a go this year. I love my .250 Savage and I do have a big boy 9.3..... But I love the reports from Steelie and Ingwe and others.

So what your saying is the 223 will replace the 243 when it gets the Testicular Fortitude to climb up the 243's Chevrons and take it.