In our little world where physics reminds us constantly that nothing is free and the Law of Diminishing Returns is a forever constant, I'm asking a question: Are there any real advantages in a 120gr TTSX vs 140/150 in a 7mm whatever, or the 130 vs 150/165 in a .30 caliber whatever. You get he picture. Nothing is free, is there anything gained? Of course there is speed, but as we know, speed in itself doesn't kill. I would appreciate input from those of you that have put this to the test. I am speaking of solid bullets only, long for their weight. BC's and SD's being better vs typical cup/core bullets.

You can't push a Barnes too fast, and deer sized critters are more impressed with speed. Little bullets going fast, put in the right spot impress them.

Agreed. The mono's need the extra speed to maximize damage. I've shot deer with light and heavies from Barnes and choose now to go light. Penetration isn't an issue with the mono's on a deer at any sane range.

What kind of game are you talking about? Small big game like deer/lopes/black bears. Either will do you just fine.

Large big game like elk and I'm gonna gravitate towards the heaviers as I'm fond of 2 holes in game and have found the heaviers to give that more consistently.

Just my way

Dober

I've never killed an elk! I let you of those in the know address the big stuff!

I haven't seen any difference between the .284 120 TSX and a .264 120 TTSX. 2 exploded hearts. Was kinda pissed on the second one because I wanted to eat it......

1. Lower recoil - which makes for better accuracy for almost every hunter.

2. Greater speed, which translates to a little flatter trajectory at most hunting distances.

3. Faster performs better. I know the heavies often pass the lightweights if you shoot them far enough, but you asked for a discussion of solids, and TTSX/GMX/etc. open best the faster they fly. At the distances most hunters can make responsible shots on game, the lighter bullets are flying faster.

DJ

Yes, I am referring to small big game as Dober mentioned. I appreciate the response. I'm very intrigued by the performance "offered" by rounds like the .250 and 7/08 while pushing the little pills. I love the smaller more efficient rounds and they seemingly do the same work usually handled by the long-action stuff, 25-06, .280, 30-06, etc. Very interesting.

I'm a 7RM guy when the mail absolutely has to be delivered. That 162 SST at 3025fps seems to impress. BUT... That 7/08 pushing the 120 TTSX at the same velocity while still having great numbers in SD and BC is really creating an itch I need to scratch..

A 165 gr traditional bullet will lose 20%-50% of it's weight on impact and will in effect be a 100-130 gr bullet inside the animal. A 130 gr TTSX will still weigh 130 gr after impact and will leave the muzzle 400 fps faster from my 308.

You never know what will happen when any projectile hits flesh, but I've now seen a whopping total of three Barnes kills this year: one a 55 gr. TSX outta my AR and two from 110 TTSX outta .270 Winchester my son killed.

The level of subcutaneous hemorrhaging was more than I've seen from cup 'n' core bullets. And a bit more bloodshot meat surrounding entry and exit holes as well.

The near-3,400 fps .270 rounds really wreaked havoc. I believe in hydrostatic shock more than ever. They'd be a fantastic light-kicking, cross-canyon elk zapper.

The deer all died quickly enough. Our shooting is on mid-sized deer at fairly close ranges, however, so I don't think Barnes are really needed.

But I was wanting to scratch an itch created by Campfire talk.

Next year I might go Managed Recoil or comparable handloads for Highland Rim deer.

How about a 120 TTSX at more like 3150 fps? Totally doable. My 22" Rem does it.

To the OP: light and fast makes sense with the mono's. Heavy does not. I like heavy for caliber bullets but I look elsewhere for that. Just IMHO.

Steelhead got it! You want speed. I also think you want the tipped solids.



120 TSX, 7mm-08, 200 yards, caribou. (Very accurate load, max with RL 15, but faster wouldn't have been a bad thing.)

That's sounds very interesting. I've bought 85 gr TSX's for my .243 win and 120's for the 7RM. Just haven't spun'em up yet. That 110 in my pet .270 sounds like the bees knees... An absolute lighting bolt. My lefty BDL .308 sounds tempting with the 130's. Man oh man, the endless opportunities. That tack drivin' Sako 75 in '06 would be death on the power line right of ways with that 130 TTSX. Thanks for the stories guys, I figured it had to be an awesome deal but wanted proof.

I feel there is. I switched to using the TTSX in every hunting rifle i own in early 2012. I've found they shoot just as accurate if not more so than what i usually shot (partitions and NBT) and they absolutely hammer deer and hopefully black bear this coming fall. I shot 3 deer this year with TSX & TTSX bullets and the two i shot with my 338 Federal dropped where they were standing (first 2 deer that's ever happened with) and those were Federal Premium 185gr TSX and DoubleTap 160gr TTSX loads. The other one i shot was with my 30-06 and Barnes Vortx 150gr TTSX and she went no more than 15 steps. I didn't recover any bullets as all three were pass throughs but I suspect they expanded as they are advertised to. The 338 Fed bullet's visually hit harder than any other caliber/bullet combo I've ever seen and it's quickly become my favorite deer and up hunting rifle (kimber montana) with the Barnes bullets.

I've used the 120 gr. TTSX for whitetails each of the last three seasons with excellent results. My 7mm-08 with a 22" barrel gets right at 3100 fps and is dead accurate.

I just ordered up some 110 tsx's for a 30-06. don't know how they are going to work, but we'll see soon

It's interesting, though, to run numbers on the "light fast mono" vs. a heavier regular bullet. It's natural to think about how "flat" the mono must be shooting- it's going so fast, right?- but in fact, they have such cruddy BC's that usually that's a bit of a red herring. Once you get out a little ways they aren't really much flatter, if any. Beyond a "little ways", you gotta compensate for drop anyway, so it becomes irrelevant. Plus the wind really moves them around. So, there's really just a small sweet spot where the extra flatness has much meaning. If any.

Not dissing them, just an observation.

The added speed is more about bullet meeting flesh/bone than trajectory.

Really depends on what you consider a "little ways" now doesn't it. For guys like myself that don't shoot beyond 300 yards anyways the benefits of a light flat seem pretty easy to see.

Yeah, you can get a better MPBR, that's for sure!

I used 100 grain TTSX's in my 260 Remington this past year on whitetail. I shot two deer, both of which dropped right there. Exit holes were impressive. No recoil to speak of and very accurate in my rifle.

That's what makes this discussion interesting, IMHO - We are talking about "in the field" advantages of solids - heavy vs. light.

The light bullets' advantages shine in hunting situations lots more than in theory or long range paper punching.

More friendly recoil, better bullet performance, and flatter trajectory in hunting situations - which for most don't involve sniping from 800 yards.

Unless wind is dead calm and a setup on a shot is dead perfect, shots over 400 yards are plenty challenging in the field in hunting situations.

It's on shots under 400 yards, from field positions (where less recoil is more welcome), with bullets that actually hit flesh and need to perform well on animals, that light for caliber bullets like the TTSX's really shine.

243 running an 85 TSX at 80-90 Yards - through both shoulders. Old picture, but still relevant in this discussion.






Newer pics to show they still work...grin.

243 running an 80 TTSX 90-100 yards - through near shoulder & out behind off shoulder...Daughter was the shooter.



And the capper - 53 TSX through both shoulders at about 125 yards by the same young lady.



Light bullets that perform out of proportion to their weight and mild recoil make little girls (and their Daddy's) better shots in the field, and the critters don't go far if they go anywhere at all.

DJ

Cool pics DJ. How do those small 120 gr 7mm pills @ 3400 handle a stiff crosswind (7mag) compared to a 160 AB @ 3100?

The lightweights work great until past 350 or 400 yds or more depending on starting velocity. Somewhere past this point drift and trajectory start to lose out to the higher BC bullets.

I recovered more 120 7mms than any others from 140-175gr. But also shot more of the lightweights into game. Can't prove it but the light weights didn't always seem to track as consistently as heavier X's, especially if they lost petals. And they seem a little more prone to lose petals due to the higher velocity. A couple of times I would find a loose piece of copper but still the bullets almost always exited.

Their fun to shoot and deadly. Bigger game or expensive hunt and I would go up to heavier bullets. Ditto for when wind was a major factor like on the open prairies.

Thanks to Dogzapper I started using the 120 & 140 Nosler BT and am happy with them for light big game.

+1 what they said !

Every gun I own is loaded with Barnes and I have yet to find one.

I have used both 120 TSX & 140 TSX in the 7mm Rem. Mag. on deer & hogs & like the deeper penetration of the 140 better, so I just use 120s in the 7-08 with great effect on a few hogs & a deer, so far.

In the .308 I've only used the 150 TSX on game & won't be changing any time soon. The 130s weren't nearly as accurate as the 150s in my long throated 700 Ti.

You really need to set up your F2 key to spit out 'I don't have a [bleep] clue, but let me guess'

.460 BC on the 130 Hornady GMX sucks compared to the 130 Interbond at .460....

I love the TSXs during the rut especially. Mostly bucks are crossing small openings and not giving you much time for anything but putting crosshairs on the animal and squeezing. Most shots are under 400. A 300 WSM with 130s at about 3500fps is pretty darn flat under those parameters. Turn the CDS up to 2 MOA and pretend you have a laser beam, to a certain extent.

My experience with the TSX was with the .243 and 6mm in 85 grain guise. Strictly on whitetails. They worked.

Now the spot that I really feel the most comfortable shooting the 110 TTSX is in the .270 WSM. I run it out of a 26 inch barrel, and I can tell you that the deer we have hosed with that setup were immediately impressed. Mrs. Tide's rifle, but she reports some of the deer being knocked completely to the ground, and even those who get back up don't go far. The speed is at max velocity for that cartridge, but what I like about it is that I have no worries whether the deer walks out at 3 yards or 300. The deal is the same. Dead deer when I do my part.

makes sense!
I use the 130 ttsx in my 308.

I have yet to see a reason to switch, but I get a kick outta people that want to use 168 ttsx out of a 308 to kill deer

Be that as it may, personally beyond 300, 350 I'm leaning on a turret or reticle. And even at 350, the difference in drop between:

120 TSX @ 3100 fps

140 NBT @ 2800 fps

Is less than a whopping three inches. More like TWO inches at 300 yards.

Don't make me drop a chart on yo' snarky ass. You know I'll do it!




If you're talking effect on game light mono vs. heavier mono I'll defer to your knowledge.

I'm really appreciating where this thread is going. It's obvious that all of you have mulled over and/or taken action to find out. It's out around 350 that really piques my interests. Wind drift, impact velocities, and terminal performance of the lighter Mono's vs. heavier cup/core bullets like BT's or SST's. Thanks for all the interest guys. I'm definitely going the TTSX route for next season in at least a few rifles.

Especially concerning smaller calibers, I can imagine the cool factor involved in shooting deer at close range and having confidence that the bullet will perform as expected. Say a 22-250 running 3700 with a 50 gr TTSX. Awesome. Like a laserbeam.

Can't speak for 7mm or .30 cal but I have shot 6 deer, 2 oryx, 2 sheep, 1 200+lb hog and a few coyotes with 110TTXS out of a 270WSM and have been impressed by the performance on everything but the coyotes. I have yet to have an animal stop one of these bullets. I switched to the 110TTXS after using the 130TXS for a few years and in my opinion the 110TTXS penetrated just as well on deer size game but it seems to expand quicker giving a bigger wound channel than the 130TXS. I would say the wound channel of the 110TTXS is more comparable to a 140Accubond than a that of the 130TXS except that the 110TTXS has always given me an exit wound and the 140Accubands seldom exited deer sized game for me.

The .257 wby and 100 TTSX @~3500 or so flat out mollywhops things. Schit dies quick. Ive killed things from bobcats/fox to javelina, elk, deer, babboons, Nyala, Coues deer etc from 15-600 yards. All results have been the same. Schit falls over dead. Flat out impressed.

Speed+ Polymer tipped hunks of copper = (quickly) Dead critters

Given the two bullets you mention at the velocities you list, the 120 gr. TTSX shoots flatter to over 1000 yds. which is as far as my handy dandy iphone ballistic app goes, so by all means drop a chart on us because if you'd run the numbers you'd know that.

Everything looks great at 300 yards.

I didn't look at Barnes stuff for the 120 TTSX,but did for the 120BT at 3100...Crowhunter is right....the 120BT at 3100 outruns the 140 BT at 2800 in both trajectory, and speed to 600 yards(assuming a 200 yard zero for both).

So where is this dramatic "bleeding of speed" we hear about?

Wind I didn't do...but I bet there isn't any more difference to 600 yards for wind than Jeff says is immaterial for drop? And given that I am told on here that reading wind is more "art" than science,and we don't twist for it,we "judge it" and hold off.....(a nice, PC euphimism for "guessing" it looks like the advantage lies with the faster slug.

I'm not gonna sit here and say that one would "kill" better or more dramatically than the other.....but since lighter than normal bullets at higher velocity, that don't lose very much weight ain't exactly "new"...and I've been using them for 30+ years....I can say they work very well...maybe not to 1000 yards...but to 500 yards and under, where the vast majority of BG animals are taken.