Hi all. I'm not a long range hunter, the farthest I've ever taken a whitetail is 247 yards with a 30-06. The deer was DRT. I just finished an article in the March/April edition of Rifle Shooter magazine written by Craig Boddington. It was an article on the .308 with the comparison to the 30-06. In the article he wrote that there is very little difference in trajectory at 300 yards and that "Neither cartridge is a particular good choice for much longer shooting". I find it hard to believe that I had only 50 more yards or so of effective range with my 30-06. I'm in a hunting club that has a pipeline and I am thinking about doing some hunting there next year. Will I really be limited to 300 yards with my 30-06?
Thanks

short answer is no....just learn your trajectory and shoot for practice to make sure you know the drops

Agreed. Either cartridge is "effective" at distances further than most shooters can hit. The lowly .243 Win is a sure thing on whitetails at 300 yards...

practice, practice, practice. A drop chart taped to the side of your stock, nor a mil-dot scope with big knobs, nor a magic bullet can take its place.
All that said, I've shot exactly one head of BG beyond 300 yards.

A good knowledge of the trajectory of your load/rifle combo will extend the range out to at least 450 yards. Most people never practice at that range, but practice is what it will take to seal the deal. Wind is way more of a factor past 300 yards, so being able to read the wind is a must if you intend to have any sort of consistency. There are several books that can help you out, but practice makes perfect.

I just joined a shooting range that I can shoot out to 500 yards. I'm going to shoot as often as possible but if im not confident in my ability by next season, then i'll stick to the food plots. I was just curious of the cartridges ability, I know mine is pretty limited

Bro in law used his Model 70 Featherweight .30-06 to take his cow elk this year, one shot through the lungs, pass thru shot, 514 yards I believe is what he said he lasered it at. DRT.

IMO yes. Until you have a range finder and know the exact range and have practiced at those ranges and have bullets that are efficient at those ranges, going beyond 300 yards is not a good idea. Drop and wind can be huge influences.

A 30-06 can in the right hands and when loaded with the right ammo handle well in excess of 300 yards. Without meeting those prerequisites, at best it's a waste of time and ammo, at worst you wound an animal.

You do understand that 300 yards is a long ways off don't you

................No! You will not be limited out to 300 yards with your 30-06. Sure! There are better long ranged 30 cal rounds (beyond 300 yards) than the 30-06.

But imo for Boddington to state that,,,,"neither the 308 or 30-06 is a particularly good choice for much longer shooting",,,,is a stretch and is also a very debatable statement.

Then according to Boddington, I may have been borderline in his opinion. I took a big bull elk @ 328 yards with one shot (and DRT) using a 190 gr Berger hunting VLD with a MV of about 2830 (w/RL17 only) using a 300 WSM Ruger Frontier compact, which basically give or take a few fps, is ballistically a shorter barreled version of a 24"-26" barreled 30-06.

Based on the massive amount internal damage, I can assure you that had that elk been 400 yards away, 450 yards away or even 500 yards away, the same result would have occurred given the same VLD bullet placement.

And the Boddington article you mention was only talking
about whitetails??

Have fun with your 30-06. And if you happen to range a whitetail
at 400-500 yards, and with prior practice you are confident with the shot,,,then go for it.

I don't see anywhere that Craig was only talking about whitetails.

On the other hand, I've seen many discussions of magazine articles started on the Campfire where the original poster got a lot of details wrong.

I know Craig has taken a big bull elk with one shot at over 400 yards with a .270 Winchester, and has also killed a LOT of big game with the .30-06, so kind of doubt he said anything about a 300-yard limit. But would freely admit I;m wrong if somebody could show me otherwise.

Perosnally, I've seen the .30-06 work great well past 300. The last was a 6x6 bull elk a companion killed with one shot at 365 yards last November. I've personally used it out to 450 on animals larger than deer, and it worked fine.

300 yards is a long way but the 30.06 is not limited to that range. Maximum range is limited by your ability as a shooter. Carlos Hathcock used a 30.06 and his effective range was much farther. He was an exceptional marksman.

The Boddington article didn't mention whitetails in particular, just that neither cartridge was a particular good cartridge for much further than that.

tedthorn, Yeah, I do know that 300 yards is " a long ways off". Just wondering about something mentioned in an article

...........Whoops!.....Because you mentioned WTs in your original post, I assumed with a question mark in my last post, that Boddington may have mentioned WTs in his article regarding his 300 yard assessment.

In any event, I`ll still disagree with Boddington regarding his beyond 300 yard opinion.

What does 30/06 AI mean?

.............Look it up..........

I'd think that the effective range of an '06 is about 200 yards...farther than the average hunter can accurately shoot.

It's Latin for catapult.

Make that further than the average southern California liberal might be able to shoot accurately...

there are lot of politically incorrect conservatives out there that shoot little sage rats and prairie dogs much further than 200 yds... in fact 200 yds is considered a chip shot by most of them...

No, you won't be limited to 300 yards with a .30-06 - nor are you with a .308 Win for that matter.

Boddington never thought much of the .270 either, although he seems to have moderated some since he killed an elk at 400 yards with one.

The main thing is being able to place the bullet. A well placed bullet from a .30-06 is much better than a poorly placed one from a .300 Earschplittenloudenboomer.

There are many ways to compare cartridges but for now let's compare a .30-06 pushing a 168g TTSX to 2900fps versus a .300WM pushing the same bullet to 3150fps. Using Barnes published BC of .470 and zeroing both for Maximum Point Blank Range for a 6" diameter target (maximum deviation from line of sight = +3" and -3"), they look something like this:

Zero
.30-06 =247 yards
.300WM = 265 yards

MPBR
.30-06 = 290 yards
.300WM = 312 yards

300 Yards
.30-06 = -3.9", 2352fps, 2063fpe
.300WM = -2.2", 2572fps, 2467fpe

400 yards
.30-06 = -16.30", 2184fps, 1779fpe
.300WM = -12.0", 2395fps, 2139fpe

500 yards
.30-06 = -35.9", 2022fps, 1525fpe
.300WM = -28.0", 2225fps, 1847fpe

Wind deflection
.30-06 = 17.9" @ 500 yards
.300WM = 16.0" @ 500 yards

In other words, the .30-06 with that load is, at 500 yards, virtually identical to a .30-30 at 50 yards if loaded with a 170g Partition RN running 2150fps at the muzzle.

Losing any sleep over the difference yet? Me neither.

For myself, I wouldn't hesitate using my .30-06's at 500 yards on elk. For mule deer I'd easily go to 600 if using a bullet that would expand reliably at whatever the remaining velocity was (likely around 1850fps).

I like my .30-06s, all three of them, and my .300WM. None are going anywhere. Of the last 5 elk I've taken, 3 were with a .30-06, one with a .300WM and one with a .338WM. Which ones hit the ground the fastest? The three taken with the .30-06s.

Shot a nice lope at 455 with the lowly 30-06. I'd do it again in a second and not think twice. Heck, a lot of damn good shooters take the slightly slower 308 to much further ranges successfully.

You hunt with So Cal liberals, do you?

It'll kill em as far as you can hit them.

419 yards, 150gr TSX 30-06

Seems lots of people on here are using cartridges of smaller caliber,less bullet weight and frontal area,started at about 30/06 velocities to kill lots of stuff at distances beyond the 300 yard mark....no reason why a 30/06 with the right bullets would not be a good performer.

Two of the longer shots I watched made with the cartridge were both on bull elk by companions; one at about 350 yards with a 150 gr Power Point factory load and the other(near as we could tell in those pre LRF days) at about 500 with a 165 Nosler Partition started at almost 3000 fps(chronographed back then).

The Power Point bull was hit too far back first shot but milled in with the other elk and the second bullet caught in broadside through the llungs....I was watching through bins and saw that "puff" behind the shoulder and the bulls knees buckled...that was that.

The 165 Partition caught the bull at the base of the neck as it abgled away a bit...it traveled up the neck and out the side of the bulls head at the neck juncture.

My impression with both is that the 30/06 is no toy.

Moose taken less than a week ago was right at 300 yards; 180 Partition, 30-06. Six years ago the moose I killed that year was taken with same rifle at 399 yards with a 190 Interlocked which ran all the way through, devastating the lungs diagonally. I have shot a moose or two too far with the 30-06 where penetration and expansion were less than desirable. However, the old gunwriter's adage about "400 yards" as a limit for a decent shot is probably not bad advice, though the guns can be effective beyond that for humane kills. (Certainly these high-power rifle are lethal much farther. However, when reliable humane killing is factored in, bullet behavior becomes questionable as the velocities decrease.)

Klik: True...you gotta get expansion.

Not on the internet it isn't :^)

Seems funny to me that we are even talking about this in this day and age.

Laughing...

I used to think anything over 200 was a long ways and that the people that were shooting at 500 were probably just wasting ammo - until I started seeing their results.

The fact is, though, that 300 yards isn't far at all for a lot of shooters. My son-in-law took his first elk at 362 yards with a .300WM and a fixed 4x scope. I doubt using a .30-06 would have made a difference. I've taken people who have never shot or shot very little and had them do very well on steel out to 600 yards. My nephew was one example. He had never shot past a couple hundred yards but with some coaching got a first round hit on the 600-yard steel. His hit was about 2" from mine, which was also a first round hit.

My favorite targets are clay pigeons on the 600-yard berm. Can't hit them every time or even most of the time but when the wind isn't gusting I hit often enough to keep my interest up. In 2010 I took my .300WM and one of my .30-06's to the range for a final check. Last thing I did was to try pigeons at 600. Nailed 3 of them with a total of 5 shots, 2 from one gun and 3 from the other. No turrets, just Burris Ballistic-Plex reticles and some interpolation.

Carlos Hathcock seemingly didn't have a problem with the cartridge past 1000 yds using an 8X scope...

True!

SNUZ- It is not the cartridge as much as it is a RIFLE capable of shooting a 5 inch group , 5 shot group at 500 yards. 6 inch group at 600, ect. go to riflemans journal . German does extensive shooting long range with the 30-06. it is a fine long range round. He has very capable rifles; and a skilled shooter.

I think Klik raises a good point and that is bullet expansion and behaviour...I think it's one thing to hit something at distance;another to get good expansion and penetration,which are both as important at LR as they are at shorter distances.

In the instances I cited above neither seemed to be an issue at the distances involved, but I really don't know how far this can be carried at 30/06 velocities...I would not be surprised if faster rounds in the same caliber expanded bullets more fully at greater distance due to higher remaining velocity...but based on what I have seen on animals,I know if you hit with a good bullet at 500,things will die.

Beyond that, I have no idea.I do know "hitting" at 600 yards with the 30/06 has not been an issue at my range at home here.

Bob: There is a difference between "hitting" and "hunting" and a lot of you guys that practice at those ranges have my admiration. You bring up a great point about expansion or at least killing power as I've seen the effect of my friend Bill Bagwell's marksmanship with his Sharps past 500 yards on African Game. I think 400 would be an extreme kill for me and I would prefer a 300, but I would caveat that depending on the animal--and the cost of the trophy fee!

jorg: Rest assured I reside in your camp... I practice to 600 yards,but am not a "LR" shooter in the sense that some on here are...despite hunting the west for 40+ years I have yet to kill anything past 500 yards...if I kill anything at 400 yards, I am stilll a bit mystified by it all....it looks like a hellish long ways to me!

A lot of this conversation, for me, is academic.

I find it kind of interesting that some folks seem to suggest that you're "good" to hunt with whatever it is as long as you can poke a pie plate at whatever distance it is "the first time and every time." Yet few of the "bullet-placement-trumps-all" seem to be as concerned with what the bullet will do to said target each and every time.

What a bullet, rifle, cartridge, shooter... can do (are potentially capable of), and what they will do (consistently and reliably) are not necessarily one and the same.

Klik that's because it is easier to read numbers on a chart,and talk about it, than to shoot enough animals to really know other than with a few isolated examples.

Which is why I tend to listen pretty carefully to what guys like John B,Shoemaker,Burns, JJ Hack,and others before them, or with similar experience, have to say about bullets and their behaviour on BG animals....experiences counting in the thousands, on a wide variety of BG animals and all sorts of circumstances, are worth more to me than the relatively few I am likely to amass in a lifetime of trying.

I leave bullet testing up to the experts.

When I was 16 I had a whitetail buck come out into a field to eat and I judged him to be around 300 yards by estimating the distance to various landmarks between him and myself. Now I had never shot beyond 100 yards at anything but I remembered reading that my 150 grain .30-06 load was 9" low at 300 yds. the way I had sighted in. So I aimed about 9" higher on the buck than where I wanted the bullet to go and was amazed when he collapsed in his tracks. I've never killed a head of big game that far away since and that includes four head of antelope.

moosemike the 30/06 just works good.

Bob -

Like you, I practice to 600 but don't consider myself a LR hunter. My elk kill in 2012 was my longest since I started in 1982 - 399 yards as measured with gps readings and Google earth. (This dummy left his rangefinder at home...) Shot was taken from a sitting position.

This picture was taken right after I took the shot. My cow is down in the circle.



It was a down-angle shot and this pic is of the exit side. .300WM/180g MRX but I think a .30-06 would have worked just as well.

My longest big game kill is with a .30-06 at 427 yds, LRF. It was a decent whitetail buck, the guy sitting in the fencecorner with me wanted to shoot him, but when I told him the range he said he was out - his .243 wouldn't shoot that far. (He's wrong, HE can't shoot that far.) I said that I'll take him and he called bullschit. I sat down on the ground, took a good rest in the corner post arrangment, held just above the back. Connected with the first shot. The buck turned around once and stood there. I shot him again, broadside, same distance. Heard the bullet slap, buck sat down and crumpled. "Holy Schitt!" I heard behind me. First bullet took him just behind the lungs, destroyed the liver. Second bullet went right through the heart. 165 gr. Nosler Ballistic tip at 2850 fps, 3-9x40 scope and a good rest. Haven't had the opportunity to shoot a deer farther since, as I prefer to get closer. The guy kindly helped me drag the deer out.

Selmer/CH: John Burns once said on here that,among honest men,400 yards is a long shot.I agree with him.

I agree, 400 yards is a fairly long shot if you're doing it in the offhand position.

bsa: Then it gets REALLY long...

The effective range of a .30-06 is something I've been giving more thought to lately. I have always had a self-imposed limit of 400 for my own shooting. Lots of practice combined with avoiding riskier shots has served me well so far.

Having said that, I shoot well enough from field positions that 500 yards is realistic for me to make well placed shots. Bullet expansion seems to be a limiting factor though. It seems that most bullets can't be counted on to expand below 1800fps reliably (according to the manufacturers and bullet testing) which would put the maximium range at something like 400-500 yards depending on the load.

The furthest I've ever shot a big game animal was 381 yards so I don't know from first hand experience what bullet performance is like in that 400-500 yard window. I'd really appreciate hearing about first hand accounts of the .30-06's performance at 400+. For me it is likely academic since I will probably still stick to 400 at my personal maximum but it is still an interesting topic.

500 yards with a good rest, plenty of time and no wind is a LOT closer than 300 yards without the same.

To be clear, my shot was on a still morning, easy to read the wind by the mist rising straight up, all the way to the deer, over the bottom. I nailed a 310 yd shot this fall with a standing rest on a nice bedded mule deer doe this fall with my .260 Rem. 15 mph wind quartering across. My charts and experience said that the 129 gr. Hornady would drift about 10" and drop about 6" from my sight setting. It was a much harder shot than the 400+ shot, but still dropped the bullet into the lungs, she got up, turned around, laid back down, dead in her bed. A good rest and practice make all the difference in the world...

It certainly does.

And yes, 400 looks like a hell of a long way - but I practice on 8" steel disks. The deer look wwaaayyy bigger than that! I used to spend afternoons shooting flickertails offhand with a .22 LR and 4x scope. I could pick them off at 100 yds plus back then. Not sure I could do the same now, with two kids and a full-time call with two congregations I don't have the same amount of trigger time.

Must be true, I missed a buck at 350 yards last fall but have been able to take all the other deer I have shot at with 30-06s from 10-280 yards. Nice to know that the 350 yard shot wasn't my fault after all.

Dumped this guy @ 426. Nice rock to rest on, no wind, knew I had to hold 18" high. Easy.