Well, as some of you may have read, I have been seeking opinions on cartridges for a new rifle. Now I am going to ask for some opinions on a new rifle. My budget is around 2K, and I want to get a gun that would qualify as one I would experience a great deal of pride of ownership in when I go afield, and maybe more importantly, a gun that my son would treasure when the Good Lord decides my time here is up. I have narrowed the search down to Sako 85 Bavarian, Cooper Jackson Game, and maybe a Weatherby Mark V. The cartridge would be somewhere between a .257 Wby and a 30-06 (based on the gun I decide on and availability).

Please give me your thoughts on which of the above you would want and why. If you want to list them in order, that would be even better.

I have had the opportunity to handle the Sako and Weatherby, but not the Cooper (though that is the one I am most intrigued with). I asked the boss if she'd mind me driving three hours away to visit a gun store (that carries Coopers), but she thought I was beyond help. Did I mention I haven't told her I am getting another gun?

Anyhow, I eagerly look forward to any and all informed opinions that you may be able to offer.

Look towards a Merkel or Blaser in a useful and popular cartridge, something classic and timeless.

Not a huge fan of either of your current choices, though I haven't owned any. Personal preference I suppose.


I'd say the caliber and general intended function of the rifle will help determine if it is bequeath-able.

An old Sako. They'll only get more valuable as time goes on. I just bought my first (Forester) and so far, so good. Scoped with a 2-7X33, and steel Leupold rings it goes 7 1/4lbs. Ergos are great. Accuracy and durability remain to be seen.

Not a real big fan of Cooper rifles.

Weatherby?? Let's not be silly. You want your child to love you, not despise you.


Travis

Sako. They only get better with time.

I always wanted a cooper until Dan Cooper donated to Obama. I know Dan is not suppose to be with the company any more but I have a hard time buying he does not have his finger in the business somehow or receiving payment from them somehow. So [bleep] them.

Weatherby rifles I just don't like for no really good reason.

Dink

Of your list, I would pick the Cooper. They are all nice guns but a Mark 5 doesn't hold the prestige it once did and I don't like the 85 Sako Bavarian. The stock on the Bavarian is designed for open sights and it handicaps proper scope position.

My advice would be to buy a nice older Sako which were made better for around $1200 and a very nice scope or just get the Cooper.

I bought this very nice L579 Deluxe made in 1968 for $900 and the Zeiss Diavari on it for $300.

Respectfully, I couldn't give a rat's ass about Obama as I live in Canada. And I don't say that to be a jerk, but I have lived my life in a country that takes for granted, and couldn't imagine changing, many of the things that Obama wants to bring about. Having said that, I would have voted for Romney if I lived in your country. And while I certainly respect your Founding Fathers' inclusion of the 2nd Amendment, I also respect citizens' rights to freedom of speech and political affiliation. My guess is you patronize businesses with your cash whose CEOs gave a whole lot more cash to Obama than Dan Cooper ever did. I don't care about that stuff - it's peripheral to me - I just care about good guns.

Instead of a new rifle, I'd look for some of the old classics.

Dan Cooper has been out of Cooper Arms for several years now. Owned by Wilson Firearms and are really fine guns if they are what you want.

R H,

That is a nice Deluxe you have there.


Travis

Thanks Travis.
I'm very proud of it and show it off every chance I get. I just bought it last year. I bought it from a friend who said it had likely never been shot. He was a friend of the original owner who was just a collector and had bought it new in Germany in 1968.

I have only shot about 10 rounds through it and this is the only 100 yard group I have ever shot with it after sighting in.


I hope to get a deer with it this fall. Only thing is that it's so nice I usually take my Sako Finnlight instead.

A Mannlicher Schoenauer perhaps?

sns2, I own both a Sako and Cooper. I really enjoy both. The Cooper is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned, But I think the Sako meets your criteria. If new, I would choose the Cooper but the older Sako's (pre-Garcia) are a wonderful investment and potential heirloom.

Randy

A nice Sako like R H mentioned would be a keeper!
I have a Cooper and several Weatherby's...nice rifles but it is tough to beat a good ol Sako.

If you get tired of it, I could scrounge up the $1,200.00 you have invested. I wouldn't want you to lose money on the deal.

I have a Riihimaki coming soon...


Travis

If it was a stick that my great granddad killed snakes with, I'd hold it in high esteem. Price does not an heirloom make. Take any implement along, but above all share some time.

I appreciate you looking out for me. You are going to love that Riihimaki. I only own 2 Sako rifles but I want more.

Some day I'm going to buy a beat up L579 in 308, cerakote it and drop it in an Edge.

sns2,

Add this idea to your list...


Travis

A nice Sako would be my choice too........

Good advice this.

I love my Cooper! It has the prettiest wood, and is super accurate. But I have two Sako's. One is custom, the other is stock off the shelf. The older actions are the smoothest you will ever work. Find an older Sako in really good shape, and call it good.

Pre 64 300 H&H is what the OP needs

yea, it won't likely be worn out when it gets handed down.

Cooper if it was me

I can assure you the make, model and chambering will mean a whole lot more to you than your son. When the time comes, he won't be holding a Sako, Cooper or Weatherby. He'll be holding Dad's rifle, and that's all that will matter to him.

It matters a lot more what you do with it than who made it. Better yet what you do with it together. My son got his first deer sitting on my lap in a shooting house with the Model 7 he got the week before for Christmas. Should God bless him with children I expect the plastic and stainless 7 will be an heirloom.

cooper would be my choice. i looked at one today in little rock. ar. chambered in 30-06 and price was 8k.

Make that 3 for the Sako.

Having owned a few older sako's, a sampling of weatherby's from German made to modern, 9 lugs and 6, and recently my first Cooper, I'd pick Cooper no hesitation

"Socko" for me too.

SPOT ON ! !


Of the 3, I'd choose Say-ko, (Socko - if ya ain't Southern <G>)

A cool yet useable huntable classic would be hard to beat. About a year ago I sold a pre-64 Model 70 in 300H&H for $1750. If I had not HAD to sell it to be able to buy tires for my rig, there is now way I would ever have let go of that rifle.

Of the three choices, I would look long and hard until I located a clean Weatherby Mk V Lazermark. One of the prettiest rifles to ever come from a factory, and also one of the rifles that I have lamented having to sell in the last couple of years. You might have to look a while to find an appropriate gloss finish scope for it, but they come up here and elswhere from time to time. If you get any of the three you mention, please keep looking until you find a good scope with the right finish. Seeing these gorgeous guns with matte finish scopes atop reminds me of someone buying a Ferrari and spray painting the wheels some awful color. Just should not occur.

Agree, pre-64, or one of the old Southgate Weatherby's built on an FN Mauser action would be nice too ...

A nice old Sako or pre-64 is where I'd be lookin'.

AS mentioned, it won't matter too much, it's pop's rifle.

Thank God, my dad didn't like junk like that.

Blaser

This.

Sako

LOL, mine never had the chance. They didn't make "junk" like that when he was around. Not to worry, son has more that came later not fitting that description. And a few of mine as well.

SAKO in a older Forester or Finnbearer, Deluxe if it can be had.Or get a 2013 Shiloh Sharps catalog and have them build you a 74 with an original style chamber. Get a adj KAL tool paper patch bullet mold and lifetime supply of casings. Learn to load and shoot it with your kid along side you. Take it and him hunting with you. There is only 1 gun and they are 74's. Magnum Man

EvilTwin and Sharpsguy have me thinking about an heirloom rifle too. I'm leaning hard toward a Shiloh Sharps. My difficulty is in picking which model I prefer.

I wish I had that problem. My difficulty is always coming up with the money or justifying spending it on another rifle.

Of the three original choices, sako hands down. I my experience, weatherbys simply do not hold their value as the sakos do. And the older sakos are fabous and can be had reasonably.

Someone mentioned the mannlicher schoennaur. I would definitely consider these as they are great and in your price range. Check out the new Steyr mannlichers as they have a similar look to the sako Bavarian.

Good luck

I own all three makes. The coopers are a nice rifle, but don't have near the prestige of a Sako. The Weatherby Germans are a really nice find if you can find one in good shape. Weatherby rifles are expensive to shoot if you don't reload, and haven't held their values like the sako's have. The older model Sakos are very well balanced, a pleasure to shoot but are a bit heavy for packing in the mountains. The Coopers are just plain heavy. I would go with the Sako forester in 222, 243, 308. Lightweight timeless gun with all the history you are wanting to pass on. My 222 forester shoots 1/4 inch groups, and my 243 is not far behind.

Sako by far of those three.
I would even go Remington before the other 2. For 2 grand get a remmy and put it in a McM.

Sir,

This opinion and $1.75 will get you a cup of coffee at Waffle House, but fer [bleep] n giggles, here goes.........

I�ve owned prolly 20 different Sako�s.



From 17 mach iv on a rebarreled Riihimaki to an AV in 375 H&H. I�ve fiddled with a few of my bud�s Sakos. Only one I could not get to group consistently under 1�. That one had a manufacturing defect, the chamber was cut oversize. I�ve owned the Riihimaki, L461, S-491, L579, L61R, AI, AII, AIII, AV, 75, & 85 and one M995 in the Lazeroni Warbird. Wood, Synthetic and Laminate. The gunsmith I use loves the Sako actions as he don�t have to do anything to �true� them.
The Vixen (L461) is probably my favorite of the Small actions, the 579 in the medium and l61R in the large.
I�ve also owned a dozen or so Coopers in Model 21, 22, 38, and 52, in the Varminter, Montana Varminter, Varmint Extreme, Classic and Jackson Game.



As to Weatherby, I�ve owned the Mark V Accumark in 257 WBY and 240 WBY and the SuperVarmintMaster in 308 Win. That SVM was a shooter, but was kinda heavy. Had to pay a gunsmith to do a trigger job to get it to my liking. Never owned a Vanguard or Lazermark.

Sako�s were my first love, and I still own Sakos. I�ve a little Riihimaki in 222 Rem. I load with 45 gr. TSX. It is my �carry rifle�. I go to and fro on a 4 wheeler. Carry it in a scabbard strapped to the front rack.



This Sako Varminter, L61R, in 7mag has put the hurt on many a hoglet and white-tail.



My latest Sako is the Bavarian Carbine in 308 Win.



My favorite Cooper repeater, a model 52 Jackson Game, 26� fluted barrel in 25-06.



Some folks say �aren�t you afraid of scratching and denting your wood stocks. I say no, those are character marks, usually well earned.
Most of the centerfires I�ve owned over the past 20 years have been purchased �pre-enjoyed� Like big bore wheel guns, most folks don�t put that many rounds down the tube of a rifle. A little tweaking and you�ve got a shooter. Don�t be afraid of a pre-enjoyed rifle that has been conscientiously owned. It can be a lot of fun finding out a rifles provenance.

I�ve typically owned heavy barreled �beanfield� rifles but am trending toward a lighter rifle. You should consider the type of hunting you will be doing, whether it will be from a stand, stalking up and down hills/mountains and the distances at which most of your shots are made. You did not indicate your preference.

I tell folks that if my only criteria were price and accuracy, all my rifles would be Savage. However I have a thing about beauty function, fit finsh as well as accuracy.

Now this is just one man�s opinion, but for my money a used Cooper is the best value out there. Mind you I started buying Coopers over 10 years ago in the sub-caliber single shots. Most were purchased around $1,100 each. Who else built a factory rifle with stunning wood and sub-inch accuracy at 100 yds in 17 hebee or 19 Calhoon or Tactical 20. No-one is who.

You indicated that your budget was $2K. I don�t believe you mentioned whether that included the scope or not. It also does not have to be a one time and done type of thing. I started out buying cheap rifles and scopes at pawn shops and off friend and trading up. Don�t know if you have a problem with pre-enjoyed rifles or not. I don�t. Certain rifles call to me whether they are new or used. I prefer used, as that way someone else takes the initial hit on the depreciation. Haunt Gunbroker and Classifieds on gun sites. I saw a nice wood stocked model 52 Cooper in 280 Remington sell for $1,300 on GB the other day. Model 52�s and 54�s in several styles can be had used between $1,300 and $1,800. New Sako Bavarians are going around $1,900. Bavarian carbines are between$2k and $2,250. Outlets like Cove Creek Outfitters will do a lay-away. Never hurts to ask for 90 days. Broken up into 3 or 4 payments makes things easier.

You mentioned pride of ownership. Don�t know if you mean brand name, beautiful wood, fit and finish, accuracy or all of the above. To my mind there is nothing more beautiful than blue steel and wood. However, as I�m getting older, rifles with synthetic stocks and stainless or cerrakote finish are becoming more attractive. I don�t care for the acrylic finish of the wood stocked Weatherbys or Brownings that crack like fiberglass. An oil finish can be retouched or refinished. Laminates are OK, but not a thing of beauty. IMHO Cooper has the best wood of the the three brands you mentioned. However the new Bavarians have pretty decent wood.

It usually does not get super cold in Texas and glove wearing is occasional. I like triggers to break at two lbs. or under. Unless you get a Sako model with a set trigger, I�d say the trigger on the Coopers are sweeter and are easily adjustable. The Sako Bavarians and some of the 75 and 85 Varmint models have a set trigger that breaks about 9 oz. when set. It takes a little getting used to but I love the set triggers.

Both the Sako and the Cooper models 52,54 and 56 have detachable magazines. The Sakos can be fed through the receiver. The Coopers are single stack, with the cartridge being depressed and slid into the DM. The Sako will hold 1 or 2 more rounds than the Cooper (generally speaking). Don�t know if that matters to you or not. How often do you shoot more than once at a game animal? The only knock on my Bavarian carbine is the thickness of the stock at, and just in front of the DM. I think it would carry easier if that part of the stock were somewhat slimmer.

If a synthetic stock was to your liking, I think it would be hard to beat a Cooper Excalibur with cerrakote action and barrel.

Not on your list, but the Nosler Custom Sporter is worth a look. I have two and the 325 WSM is my go to hog thumper for dark thirty shooting.

As to calibers, many times rifles chambered for 30-06 are cheaper. Don�t know what you�ll be shooting or whether you are recoil sensitive. A Cooper Excalibur, 26� fluted barrel, Cerrakoted, chambered in 6.5 x 284 would do one a fine job, or the Nosler model 48 Custom Sporter (only negative is max bbl. Length of 24�. I picked one up earlier in the year chambered in 270 WSM for $1,500 on a lay-away on Gunbroker) no matter what the weather conditions. Both will shoot sub inch at 100 and shots to 300 yds. should be chipshots if you do your part.

I�ve kinda gone nuts on Merkel�s as of late,

[img]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/glenn1221/Merkel/IMG_0147_zpsfc2c7f40.jpg[/img]

Beautiful blue steel and wood, great detail, fit and finish and accurate to boot.

but of the options mentioned, I think I�d choose as follows:

Model 52, Cooper Jackson Game, 6.5 x 284, 30-06, or 338-06.
Model 54, Cooper Jackson Game 7mm-08, 260 Rem, 257 AI
Cooper Excalibur
Cooper Jackson Hunter
Cooper Classic
Sako Bavarian/Bavarian Carbine
Sako Stainless Laminate Varmint w/Set Trigger
Weatherby Vanguard Sub-MOA, stainless

Don�t know if you�re in a hurry. I�m not. It took me 10 years to get the Cooper Varminter in 20 Vartarg at the price I wanted to pay. Took three years before I found my first Merkel deal. Don�t get in a hurry, be patient. Sooner or later a blind hog will find an acorn.
JMHO

Best,
GWB

ICK!

Sorry friend, but such a piece is not even close to an heirloom rifle. Would look more like a straw sticking out of a melted Bowling Ball and feel about as warm and connecting in ones hands as well.

I'm sorry. I didn't mention coming up with the money for the Sharps because for me it goes without saying....

Gdubya - WOW!! A thoughtful, well-written reply complete with factual info, easy to read and well laid out. That is a rarity on the 'fire now days.

IMO given the origianl posters criteria you pretty well laid out all of the options available to him and did so in a very logical manner. - Congratulations! To me the Cooper more accurately represent an heirloom rifle such as the OP was asking opinions on.

Like you I am a Cooper fan, I too have owned numerous Sako's through the years but I could never "love" them, they all shot well, no issues with any of them but the charisma was just not there for me. Not all Cooper models appeal to me either but I do love the ones I own and I too feel that when purchased right they are the best value on the market.
drover

I hate you guys.
Now I've got to have a Cooper.

No problem, you'll thank us later.......


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._COOPER_owners_real_accuracy#Post6654491

and one more

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._How_does_Cooper_load_for_th#Post6654384

Best

GWB

+20 for Sako and +5 or 6 for Pre-64 M70. Geedubya makes good point with the "pre-enjoyed". Find one you like and go hunt. Don't worry about the nicks, dings and character marks.

FWIW, I just let each of my grand kids pick from a selection of rifles that were mine and/or my dad's (their great grandpa). Laid several rifles out on a bed. Took each of them into the room one by one, oldest to youngest. I put one "ringer" shiny newer rifle in each group. All of them picked older rifles that had "stories" to go with them. One picked the lever rifle I shot my first deer with. Another chose the old .22 semi auto their great grandpa used to shoot muskrats and turtles with. And so on. None of them picked the shiny newer rifle.

I bought a gorgeous lefty Mark V Lazermark 378 Wby specifically as a future heirloom to my kids, and I now own 6 other lefty Mark V's, each of which I have bought to enjoy and to one day hand down. That said, the one they'll fight over is the 243 700 CDL I hunt with every year. The other comments are correct, treat yourself to a nice rifle you'll enjoy, but your kids won't love it because it's expensive or rare, they'll love it because it'll remind them of the time you spent with them hunting with that rifle.

I would get a Sauer 90 in good condition

Pieter

Just my two cents. I've owned Sakos, I still own Coopers. I prefer Coopers. There are a lot of good folks working there, and they are easy to deal with. Get whatever turns you on.

I have a Cooper 54 in 260, a weatherby Mk V in 308, and have thought seriously about a Sako but never shot one. i am extremely happy w my cooper and highly recommend its handling, trigger, accuracy and overall quality

Weatherby

Nice Sako M591 Mannlicher (.308)in marketplace:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../FS_Sako_M591_308_Mannlicker#Post7861937

SD

Cooper 5 repeater - this particular one is in 22/250 but they available in a multitude of calibers. And yes, it does shoot sub 1/2 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yds. The only thing I had to do to it was add a scope and start shooting. Another of the reasons I am such a fan of Cooper rifles. http://www.cooperfirearms.com/our-rifles

While the backlog to have one custom built is long there are many available at on the shelf at dealers such as First Stop Guns and a host of other dealers, also there are usually quite a few listed on gunsamerica,com and gunbroker.com.

Whats not to like about them - an American product made in the USA by American workers, 1/2 inch accuracy guarantee, pride of ownership, and a quality product.





drover

Lovely gun. Pre-Enjoyed Coopers are hard to come by in Canada, as our population is 1/10th of the US. Add to that that there is only one dealer in the second largest country in the world, geographically speaking, and you can see the challenges in getting your hands on a used one.

In any event, I got a 2 yr old Sako 85 Hunter in 30-06 that was also pre-enjoyed. Three boxes down the pipe and not a scratch or nick on it. I ended up paying 2/3 of retail. Definitely the way to go.

Thank you all very much for your advice, especially to Geedubya. It was greatly appreciated.

Straight shootin my fine neighbors to the south, and when you're out hunting, may there always be an ever so gentle breeze blowing straight in your face!

From your list, Weatherby. I belong to the portion of us where just hearing the name Weatherby illicits visions of a great hunting rifle with an amazing wood stock with beautiful lines.

But I'll also put up a vote for Sauer as well. The one I've owned just felt like an heirloom-worthy rifle: amazing quality.