I've read a few different places about matching the target you use to the type of reticle your scope has, even to using different targets for say shooting a low fixed power as opposed to a higher mag like a 4.5-14.

Most of my rifles have worn 3-9 variables or something similar and I've always used a generic target like this one for sighting in and practice:




I'm looking to do some work with a handy little bolt action that is currently wearing a 4x M8 Leupold. The Leupold has the standard duplex and is of vintage that Leupold will not swap the reticle for me.

The glass is near perfect on the M8 and it fits the rifle really well so I've committed myself to learning to shoot it well.

What targets have worked best for you when shooting at 100yds with a fixed 4x using a standard duplex?

On a similar note, what style targets do you feel help you train the best for placing accurate hits on game in the field?

I use 2" red diamonds for 4X and a 1" for anything from 7X on up. The target you use is basically both sizes on one piece of paper.

I use round bullseyes with a 6" black when I practice for hunting and always try to hit the center. It's about the same size as the heart/lung junction on a deer.

For a low magnification scope or iron sights, I prefer a standard bullseye target, such as a High Power rifle style target.

For scopes the target you show is what I use as well. For irons I prefer a black bulls-eye of a size appropriate to the range.

Mountain Planis Industries targets are great for your purposes.

They recommend this model for 4x at 100 yards.

http://www.precisionplustargets.com/hv_red_target_desc_1.htm

I find the size just smaller works fine also.

1/2" or 3/4" black squares printed on 67# off white cover stock. Takes about 10 minutes to make in Excel, save as PDF. I usually do 4 or 6 on a page. Bud has a target dot in his scope, so we made some that were almost identical in size. Screw the fluff and any color other than black.

PM your email and I can send you PDF's of what I've got if you want.

I basically use the same target as 16 bore, but for a number of years now I just draw a roughly 1" square with a sharpie. What I do from there is hold the upper right intersection of the cross hairs on the lower left corner of the square. This shows me if I'm even slightly off center. When I start shooting long - 800 yards or more I hold center of square... about a 3" square.

For me I use a 1" fluorescent orange dot against a black background target at 100 yrds and a 3" model against the same background at 300 yards. Slightly larger sizes work well out to 600 yards.
The reticle coverage of a 4X duplex works well on these sizes and forces you to hold tight, especially at 300 yards and beyond and the contrast is distinct so that you don't do much floating.

"Best" target I've used to simulate game is a cardboard box cut-out of a deer, full size, measuring about 18",top of back to bottom of belly line behind the shoulders with no markings around vitals....this forces you to concentrate on holding into vitals against a monolithic background. This is about what a mature northern whitetail or mule deer measures.

I used to do the same thing for elk targets using 30-32" measurement behind the shoulders.

This is also helpful for getting your mind trained to the view through the scope as to distance estimation, and duplex subtension in case the ol' LRF doesn't get a reading or you have to judge quickly as to distance(a common occurrence when dealing with smart old muley's and whitetails).

You quickly learn to "know" the distance out to 300-400 yards because the constant picture through the 4X (or 6X)will not fool the brain like a twist of the dial to higher magnification will....I have see a couple of awful snafu's judging distance when the perp cranked to a higher power and got fooled into thinking 400 yards was 300 and shot under; and unfortunately they happened on "lifetime" bucks...LRF's resolve these issues but not always if they don't read or there is no time to use them.

i use a 2ft x 3ft real estate sign for a 100yd target. i usually take a marker and draw 6in squares on the whole 2x3 target. i find that shooting at a x that matches your rifle recticle help shoot tighter groups. i am a remodeling contractor ,so use siding metal for targets . sometimes i put 1in dots on the x.smaller the target the tighter i usually shoot.

for my eyes, it's tough to beat the old school redfield target that you've already got. shoot the bigger diamond in the middle on 4x

Take a piece of paper and put 1", 1.5", and 2" orange squares on it. Put it up at 100 yards and see which size you like. The square size that your reticle almost covers is the one I'd use. "Aim small, miss small".

16bore,

Were those groups shot with 4x scopes? Because that's what the OP was asking about.

6X on the bottom two, 10X up top. 3/8" is better with 10x. 1/2's are covered w/6x, 3/4" and 4x should be about right.

I tried all kinds of things to line up the crosshairs in the past. A big + sign drawn on paper seemed to work, just cover it with the crosshairs but depending on how much the reticle subtends that sometimes didn't seem precise enough. For many years now I've used a hollow square size it to the power of the scope. E.g., for 3-9 scopes set on 9 power the squares are 1 1/2" inches, for a fixed 4 or 6 power I'll use a 2" square. It's easy enough to center the square with the crosshairs.

Templates are made by cutting the proper size square out of cardboard and tracing the inside of them with a magic marker. The sides of milk cartons or the backing from steno pads work well, the ones I use have lasted probably 12-15 years now. You can use whatever paper you want, standard blank printer paper is cheap and stores easily. I bought a 5000 sheet box of old 11 1/2 X 14 green bar computer paper on closeout for $5.00 in the late 90's and haven't even used half of it yet. The green bars are each 1/2" wide so you get a built in scale for elevation adjustments if needed.




I've been using this setup for so long I've never thought of questioning it, but now that you bring it up I'm going to draw the squares as a diamond shape and align the crosshairs with the points of the diamond like on your target to see if that helps.

Nothing to do with scopes, but those square templates also make good handgun targets for patridge sights. Just fill them in and rest the square on top of the front blade for a precise sight picture.

[/quote]

Experiment with big + signs.

Print them so they cover most of a sheet of paper. Experiment a bit and make the line thickness such that when you aim at it the reticle doesn't quite cover up the plus symbol. This will help you hold about as fine as possible, and unlike a dot it will help you eliminate cant.

Print the targets on a 1"x1" thin line grid background.

Use a level when you hang your targets.

These are what are used for registered benchrest matches unless Sinclair is lying. "These targets represent the 100 yard target used in registered benchrest matches."



Is there something special about benchrest scopes other than their very high power that would make these not suitable for regular scopes if sized to fit the power appropriately?

They're suitable, I've used them myself. But I've come to appreciate the virtues of custom sized "plus sign" targets as I described.

Don't benchresters line up their crosshairs on the corner of the square instead of bisecting the center? I think I read that somewhere. Kind of like using half of a + sign.

Makes sense, but they're required to use the official target.

I've monkeyed around with boxes, circles, lining up on edges, et cetera. Nothing beats a properly scaled plus sign, though a properly sized, open centered diamond of correct line thicknesses comes close.

The thing with plus signs, diamonds, squares, etc. (anything that's intended to provide alignment markers for cross hairs) is that they have to be mounted plumb on the back board. If it's off kilter, it'll cause you to cant your rifle when sighting on it. That's why I prefer simple black bullseyes with white centers sized for a particular distance/magnification/reticule thickness. (That's assuming one's reticule is plumb to one's rifle.)

My reticles are plumb, and I hang targets using a level. A trued up plus sign will reveal even a small amount of aiming cant that a bullseye won't.

I'm with the guys that use a black square. I print 'em out in different sizes depending on the distance I'm going to shoot. However, my point of aim is probably different than most since I put the crosshairs on either the lower right or lower left corner of the square.
I never could use or get used to any target with a fluorescent color.
Bear In Fairbanks

I've done the corner of the square routine too, but a custom sized plus sign beats it.

I use a 3/4" black dot target pasters. Think I bought the roll at Sinclairs.

I also plumb the target so I am not canting my gun to match the paper on accident.

Aim small, miss small. Don't make your bullseyes too big or you will loose concentration.

I love these Mountain Plains Targets mentioned earlier. They are heavy with 3 holes punched. THey have all different sizes for all scope powers. Sinclair sells them. I think you can also buy direct.

plain orange on white paper is the wosrt target i've ever used. not enough contrast .

this is what i do ,match your recticle at what ever range you are shooting.i shoot + with 1/4in thick lines at 400yds . 8x32 scope i can see it great and the only way i can't see a bullet hole is if i cut a line perfectly

+1 on using a small level when hanging your targets. We do this when shooting rimfire benchrest, with a 45X scope it is a MUST.

question,why such high mounts on that scope???

You really never get a cheek weld with these. you adjust the rifle with the rest ONLY, then touch the trigger. That's why the rest was $1000. Very anal game, all about the ammo and using the tuner on the end of the barrel. really not that much fun.

Just got back from the range where I shot several groups with diamonds and also some big plus signs.

Comparing these results along with my previous experience shooting at hollow squares has led me to the conclusion that the sure fire guaranteed way to shoot smaller groups is...

Use a higher powered scope!

Seriously, each type of target worked about as well as the next for aligning the crosshairs. The limiting factor was just how well you could see any errors of scope alignment with the center of the square, diamond or intersection of the +. The 9 power scope let me see better than the 6X scope and the 12X scope let me see best of all.

I'll go out on a strong limb here and opine that this is why the benchresters use such high powered scopes like 36X or 45X for their sport.

I read something a while ago about the aiming error inherent in various powers, I forget the exact amounts such as 1/4" aiming error with a 4X, 1/8" possible error at 10X (again, not the exact details but just for an example) but it definitely went down as the scope power went up - assuming a scope capable of decent resolution at 100 yards which is most of them that aren't Wally World specials.

Anyway, bottom line from what I've seen is that any of several different designs work well. Just size them to your scope power. Then as long as you have some decent reference point to align the crosshairs on, the more magnification you can get to resolve aiming errors, the smaller potential groups you can shoot.

For conversation,as it's fresh in my mind...if only because it were an hour or so ago.(grin)

Was playing with a new(to me) Anschutz 54 and needed to scallop the 1pc integral ring/rail(BLK #360),so empties would fly,fly away unobstructed. So the scope came outta th saddle and rail came offa receiver,for the facelift,none of which is a big deal. I never work on sumptin',then not shoot it for confirmation ASAP,because dat's akin to being broken down and that is NOT how I roll.

Anywhoo...I was working with knowed quantities,as the fodder had been proven the day prior,through the very same rifle and I had faith in it's glass(Mk4 M1 10x). So I just hadta torque everything(Gorilla tight everywhere) and poke some holes at 50yd paper.

Started as per my default favorite approach,which is butcher paper wearing black colored dots in accordance to distance,reticle and X's. I like 'em far more svelte than anyone else,but dat's where the Mojo is reliably found. So the first barrage was bearing fruit,as per expectations. I then [bleep] around at the 50yd line,shooting tack heads,nails in the upright position and empty 357Mag hulls set upright.

Yada,yada...no thang.




Remembering that I had some 50' SB targets behind the seat,I poked one on a cardboard backer(butcher paper was stapled directly to tattered particle board,thus the nasty holes) and went to making final zero confirmations. I got lost in the bullseye and I forgot how much I [bleep] hate that orange schit and knew that I was unable to coax rifle/ammo potential,in sucha manner. Walked up,colored a couple/few small black dots and hung fire.

That contrast easily discerned,less any change in terminal tackle. The percentage is huge,though the bad were still tidy.(grin)



I fret reticles,far more than X's and few hate Hubbles more than I.....................

Don't shoot many 4x fixed reticles. Mainly varibles from 1.5 up.

For load development and trigger time I usually use 1" dots on white poster board at 100 yds. Do try to position them with the crosshatch perpendicular and level.



When ya' get old like me and don't seem to be able to concentrate so much, it helps to have a rifle that shoots better than you do. LOL



As for hitting game in the field. JMHO, trigger time and being comfortable with your rifle and load taken with the knowledge of where your first shot out of a cold barrel will impact are much more important than the type of practice target. When you know you know, and you know you know, confidence replaces fear.

Squeeze it easy,

GWB

Well played sir, nice shooting as well.

You just can't keep away from Boxer, can you?

I site in with a 2" black square. Put crosshairs in the lower right, like a carpenter's square, and sight deer rifles to hit the top right corner, ends up 2" high at 100yrds, and very easy to see where to make adjustments as needed.

Square size doesn't matter much when you are sighting on square corners, corners are just as small/precise on a 6" square as they are on a 1" square.

For just punching paper with a duplex reticle I will use a similar target to what you have that allows you to line up the posts. For practicing for game I'll shoot at printable targets that resemble the Game I intend to hunt. I know many use 22LR to practice with and that's fine but I have a 223 that matches my larger bolt guns. I can hand load it with some pretty light and economical practice fodder and it better duplicates my bigger hunting rifles as far as function and feel. Just my opinion.

Interesting approach. I'll have to try that.

It works well, but for me it's still not as good as a plus sign customized to the reticle/magnification/distance combination.

Mathman, is it a + or an X standing up on one leg?
I guess being mathman, an X is really a + that fell over.

I use 2" orange circles when I zero my 4x scopes @ 100y.

I mostly zero with a 2" diamond of black duct tape.

for hunting practice, I shoot at any generic 12"x24" or so piece of cardboard on which I've lightly penciled in a couple of 6" circles.
Can't actually see the circles from any distance, but usually manage to keep most shots inside...

I'll Play. I no rhyme or reason for the target design. Jus' use what ever works.

300 Winny..





6mm Rem


7 wizzum's




6.5X284




6.5X284 at 1K.. 4.1"



6.5-06



(500)

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/wyowhisper/rifles/large/6.5-06%20RL%2022%20142%20SMK%20500m.jpg[/img]

Hunting 6.5-06

(500)

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/wyowhisper/rifles/large/DSC_0144.jpg[/img]

HOLY GEEZ. Impressive shooting, to say the least.

Cocadori,

What stock is that on the first rifle posted with the desert camo and can?

http://kmwlrs.com/SENTINELstocks.htm

That target is fine ... used all five bulls out at 100 with my M8. Good Luck and shoot well

Shooting is 90% mental. A target won't make you a better shooter. Shooting makes you a better shooter. Proper technique and follow through do wonders. When you build muscle memory than ya have it.

BS










more like 95%

I've seen fellas damn near pass out trying to hold their breath and pull the trigger. Shootgasms crack me up....

I see you have both a 6.5-06 and a 6.5-284. Just curious, which one is more economical to run. I have about 1500-2K '06 brass laying around. Not sure it's the best choice to make 6.5-06 brass but 270, 25-06 brass is easy for me to get as well. And, I could dig up a standard length action for the 6.5-06. Just wondering.

I use 25-06 up... cause I already had 500 of em ;-)

I like running the 6.5-06 more better. I don't bitch if I loose a Piece of brass (compared to Lapua)

I like the 6.5-06 so much I have 2 of em.

Good to know. Any of the '06 family are fairly easy to come across.

Cocadori is good to go. I have seen these twins shoot when they were built by Chris Mathews, if these are "those" twins

thx!...


yaaaawwwnnnn... love it when barrel break-in and load development is this easy.

3 shots #16,17 and 18 from this rifle.

I use this,but you have to shoot quick...

LAUGH OF THE DAY

I've been drawing up my own targets for years and have used a variety of circles, squares and diamonds of various sizes depending on the cartridge and optics. Currently I'm using something like this with low powered variable and fixed 4x scopes - this was yesterday with an old Swedish mauser and a steel tube Weaver 4x with post and wire reticle:


Here is another one I've used quite a bit in the past:

JGRAY: I use the bottom one most of the time for hunting rifles.
Crosshairs seem to center nicely in the square while the groups are generally on the black dot for most calibers I use for hunting.

If you want the actual size of groups, try measuring a single bullet hole in your target, you will likely find that it is not quite as large as the bullet used. For instance I typically see .292 for a .308, so I would subtract .292 for the edges of the group, not .308. For hunting purposes .016 inches in group size won't matter, but if you are talking bench rest or even wanting to know how accurate the system really is it does matter.