For a few years now I have been fantasizing about getting a big rifle suitable for big bears, moose, elk, and such. No need for one quite yet. However, it seems that I may have need of such in the now fairly near future. In the past I had pretty much decided on a Ruger M-77 Alaskan (SS w/ syn. stock) in .375 Ruger. It appears that Ruger has discontinued these and is trying to substitute, as best I can tell, with what they are calling a Guide Gun. From what I have seen of it, I am not impressed. They do still have their African, but it is wood stocked and blue steel. Not what I want.

I have always been a fan of Winchester and love my Super Grade M-70 Clasic (CRF) .30-06. I figured if I cannot go with the .375 Ruger, I would settle for the good old .375 H&H. However, to my surprise, Winchester does not offer a SS syn. stock M-70 in .375 H&H, only in wood and blue steel.

I'm OK with Remington and have a M-700 SPS in 7mm-08, but I really want a CRF for this. So, that rules out Remington. I confess that I am not really familiar with Kimber. I am of the belief that they are pretty much a copy of a Winchester M-70. Is that true? If so, how do they measure up to a M-70? Any other suggestions? I am in no hurry. I guess Ruger was not selling enough of their M-77 Alaskans to justify making them. This really surprises me as I thought is was just the thing for large game and harsh conditions. Also really liked all that I read about the .375 Ruger cartridge. Thoughts, comments, and suggestions? Thanks!

I recently went out on a limb and purchased a Howa 1500 chambered in 375 ruger and I am more than impressed. I had been wanting a longer 24" barrel instead of the 20" that ruger offers not to mention the ruger just didn't feel right. This Howa features what they call a HACT trigger, Howa Accuator controlled trigger, which is FACTORY set for 2.5-3.8lbs. Yes I measured mine and it breaks at a clean 2.6lb. It is without a doubt the best factory trigger I have ever felt and this gun just feels right.

geeze... Don't talk so loud... My poor old 375AI built on a 700 has only killed every bear it has been asked to, including three Kodiak brown bears, and an assortment of others... But all you clueless folks thinking there is ANYTHING special in CRF might make it think all those critters were only acting dead.

Or all those cartridges being fed through it at every angle were really going somewhere else...

Or the fact the 700 is easier to make shoot well than any CRF design out there was somehow limited by the feel good folks that said all actions should be equal and a nostalgia factor should mean the 2MOA CRF rifle is equal to the 1MOA push feed.

And was the 77 Alaskan a true CRF?
art laughing but not because it was really funny...

Spend one nanosecond in an alder patch following a wounded bear and the 24" barrel will feel like the hideous joke it really is. My serious rifles are cut at 20".

The HOWA is an incredible deal as rifles go. If only their lightweight version actually shaved some weight from their too-heavy action. No one puts better bottom metal on their standard grade rifles than HOWA.

PF,CRF........they all work so long as they work the way they are supposed to, and it boils down to personal preferences based on your own experiences and what you "like". CRF is no guarantee the rifle will work well if it is not tuned properly. A friend on here has a KS Mountain rifle in 375 H&H and loves it.

I am a traditional guy, like CRF, and if I wanted a SS 375 rifle would look around the used gun market for a SS M70 Classic and drop it into an Echols or other McMillan stock....or skip the fluff and use it as is.

While at it I would do everything I could to make it jam or screw up in function and correct any little problems....I would do that with any rifle because hunts with 375's are usually pretty important and cost lots of money.

The Kimber Talkeetna is SS,looks like a nice rifle but fails to make my hit list because it has no bottom metal and I don't like blind magazines on any hunting rifles...others differ on this, concerned that bottom metal will open and do bombs away with your ammo under recoil, which is true if the BM is a piece of shidt but not otherwise..... Take your pick.

No, but a 1" MOA CRF is the better option when it comes to dangerous game and reliable EXTRACTION, not just feeding and Remington extractors because of their inherent weak point when dirt/debris builds up are prone to failure. The in line PF Weatherbys are about the most reliable feeders out there. "feel good"? How about KNOW GOOD.... I try very hard not to comment on threads like this, until the Bullshit comes out about CRFs not being accurate and PFs the equal of CRFs in feeding and extraction...And I still can't fathom a safety that won't lock the bolt (not to mention it's shady safety record), then there's that bolt issue...

A used Magnum (7mm Rem , 300 Winnie, etc) + new barrel = your rifle.

I've rebarreled several Mauser's to both .375 & .416 Ruger. Great cartridges. SS Mauser actions are scarce as hen's teeth though.

Bob,

I agree the SS M-70 Classic Express .375 H&H is one of the least expensive ways to get a solid, using rifle. Unfortunately, the 24" factory barrel is way too heavy. I understand Winchester uses this same barrel contour for their .416 and .458. With those, that profile may be OK, with the .375 there's a lot more steel left in the barrel because of the smaller bore.

I cut mine to 21" and it's amazing how much better it handles. It ballances at the front of the receiver. Before, it handled like a barrel heavy club, now it's a fast handling big gun.

I even kept the Tupperware stock after jerking out the hot glue bedding and Steel Bedding the lug. It's not as nice as a Legend, but is around $500 cheaper...

DF


Edited to add, when I had the barrel cut to 21", I had the smith tweak the action for smooth feed. I know, the .375 H&H is a slick feeding round to begin with. But, this rifle will now cycle a full mag of EMPTY cases as fast as I can cycle the action. If it will do that with empty cases, you know the rounds are lining up perfectly with the chamber. That's a confidence builder, for sure.

DF yes you are right.... the barrel on M70's in 375H&H is heavier than it needs to be. I have had a M70 SS in a Echols; it comes in about 9 pounds and was serviceable but just a bit portly. Thought about turning the tube down but never got to it.

All these little issues are why my present 375,on a pre 64 M70 action,has a slimmer Krieger 410 SS barrel and a Brown Precision stock. Scoped, it weighs 8 pounds on the nose...I have had it since the 80's which makes it sorta "old", but built the way I think a 375H&H should be.

The factories seem to have a problem getting them "right" far as I am concerned. We all have our pet peeves I guess.

I discussed turning down the factory tube with my smith. He said the holes drilled for sights would cause problems on the lathe and for that reason, he didn't recommend it.

The delema: Those big bore Winchester barrel shoot well, so well, it's hard to justify replacing them. That's why I cut mine to 21" instead of replacing it. I'm pleased with the result.

DF

I've owned several 375s over the years, mostly H&Hs. Currently own a 375/338 that I have waaay too much money into to ever sell and it has a history now with a couple moose and a trophy Yukon caribou. I didn't really need any of these rifles, it was a WANT thing that most gunnuts do.

I've come to the conclusion that I would have been better served with a lightweight 35Whelen or 9.3x62 for moose hunting.

10-4 on that. I'd never go over 22" for a 375 again.

NEED is a four letter word; gives me a bad case of the jitters...

DF

Your right. If need was all there was to it, I'd just own a 270 and be good.

I just found that the older I got, the less I enjoy shooting big magnums. A Whelen with a lighter weight TSX would serve me fine and be funner to shoot than a full throttle 375Magnum in a lightweight rifle.

Seem that cycling through different rifles is necessary to determine just what that "perfect" combo actually is. I have a really great AHR CZ in 9.3x62 that I traded for. It shoots great, maybe a tad heavy.

If I can find a shot out pre-64 in '06 or similar, I'm thinking about a rebore to 9.3x62 for a lighter, carrying gun that should suit a bunch of hunting scenarios. To know that's what I want required having used and shot a bunch of other rifles. A rebore isn't be that expensive and it won't be a gun I'd worry about using hard. Sometimes those are the best guns...

Phil Shoemaker, who has as much if not more experience hunting big stuff as anyone, recently built a light barrel, pre-64 in 9.3x62 and dropped it in an Echols Legend. Really a nice carrying rifle that will handle about anything Phil will encounter. He has a bunch of guns and has used many different combos over the years, leading him to this conclusion.

DF

.375-.338 is a good one in a std long action. Mine had a 21" bbl, on a M70 PF action, Williams receiver aperature rear and Williams Firesight front.



L to R

.338 Win
.375-.338 w/ Win 270 PP
.375-338 w/ Nosler 300 PT
.375 H+H
.375-.338

Never needed more or less than this:



Winchester M70 Safari Express 375H&H 24" barrel weighs in at 10.7 pounds. 2.5 pound factory trigger, all metal is Teflon coated, except the action, it'll just wear off anyway. Action has been trued, stock is bedded and epoxied finished all natural wood to seal the stock completely. And it shoots like jorgeI's.

I personally like the balance, which is at the lug, & for me 4" shorter barrel is not going to make a difference in tight cover. I've hunted the heck out of this rifle from coyotes to elk and everything in between. To me it's the perfect all around rifle. Note no rear ramp...I've got a custom made peep sight that fits the Talley mount if I need to drop the 1-4 scope. Also have a 2.5-8 sitting in Talley QD rings for when I want more power for shooting long range.

I like the weight, the finish & everything about the rifle! Stainless steel looks poorly to me. Prefer the black and wood. I was going to put a plastic stock on, so I'd have both, but changed my mind. I'm just a wood guy!

Super Cub that 375/338 on the FN Mauser is still at KTP as of last weekend....

My Kimber Talkeetna is not a copy of a Winchester Model 70. It is, however similar.
Pluses are lighter weight, four in magazine, blind magazine [some don't think that is a plus] Kevlar stock and NECG sights out of the box.

For my purposes, the weight is near perfect. About 8.5# with scope. About the same as my M70 SS Classic in .338 FWIW.

I agree with other posters that the 24" barrel needs to be shortened for the uses I put it to. I don't care for barrels over 22" on rifles I hunt with in the brush.

If I have a gripe it is that the four round magazine causes it to be a bit thick in front of the trigger guard. Some people are never happy.

I was down to ME in July and didn't get to see that rifle. Too much hassle getting across.

Mine is on a 700 action which is long enough for an H&H. It works fine, even for a PF.

Stainless M70's in 7mm and 300 Win abound. Pick the exact barrel contour and length you want, pick the stock you want, and have it rebarreled to .375 Ruger.

If I wanted stainless this would be my choice. Very nice rifles.

I like a floor plate on a DG rifle.

Here's my budget .375 H&H, 24" factory tube trimmed to 21" with NECG irons. The basic rifle was around $850 used. I spent a few bucks with the smith, trimming the barrel and tweaking the action for extra smooth feed. NECG sights were bought wholesale and sent with the gun to be mounted.

DF

When I put my .375 H&H together I went as follows:
pre 64 M70 H&H action
#4 barrel @22"
used brown precision stock
old leupy 3x
as pictured it weighs about 8 3/4 pounds
I'm quite happy how it turned out.
now just to get back to Alaska

Hard not to like that one.

DF

Sweet! That's a beauty for sure. A friend of mine has a Super Grade in 375 H&H. One afternoon we shot groundhogs with it. Walking them up along the corn and woods line. Standing off cross sticks. A lot of fun and good practice. It's been my experience the M70 tames the hard kickers pretty well. For my physical build anyway. The 338,300 Win,and 375 all have a lesser felt recoil to me than the same round in a BDL. You do have a dandy there.

Thanks, Otter6! Yeah, she's pretty much a pussycat to shoot. A friend of mine calls her a pretty fat girl! LOL He likes the light weights and much smaller cartridges. I once had a ultra light in 06 and it kicked ya like an ugly mule. Which after that I've preferred at least 9# rifles no matter the caliber. And as far as humping the fat girl, when I was issued my rifle when in the USMC it also weighed over 10#, and I carried her to hell and back.

WB375

I like the looks of that rifle. What did you do to the stock? Was it a complete re-do to bare would. Alkanet or stain? And is it oil over epoxy or just rubbed down?

Tempted to do that on mine but can't decide if I want to trim down the stock or not.

Back to the original poster I would keep an eye out for a used Whitworth or Zastava and just get the metal cerakoated or other rust proof treatment.

Tejano, The outside of the stock was not touched. Factory finish. We took the stock when the barreled action, bottom metal, etc was out and brushed a two part marine epoxy finish on all the bare wood inside. Seems to have work great, she's been in snow & rain storms and always shot true!

Been thinking the same thing.

Though this one is a 9,3x62, same idea.


I have rebarreled more than a few Interarms, Zastava, Daly's into 375 Rugers. This one started as an H&R and is now a 375 Ruger. I was still in the process of refinishing the stock after adding the ebony tip and recoil pad. It of course is Blue & wood but could easily have been synthetic and cerakote.

The problem with your barrel channel sealing idea is it creates a differential in waterproofing between the channel and the rest of the stock... The channel wood will be the last to move.

If the stock absorbs water through the finish and all oil based finishes are poor at truly sealing, then the wood will grow toward the channel and can easily either impinge on touch the barrel. That can be an issue...

Matching the sealer in the barrel channel with the finish is really the best plan.

But then, most walnut stocks are pretty stable to start with and the issues are not that great.

Jorge
Please name an action that will function perfectly every time when you allow dirt and debris to build up... Short of the 870 shucking shells and sand there are no actions I would trust as a DGR without at least a little bit of attention...

You really get to digging when you go after the safety record... That has been hashed way fine these days...

Good luck with those inaccurate 70s and I will keep running my fallible 700s!
art

Your question is pure hyperbole but good luck? I'm not the one chasing Brown Bears for a living. Hope that handle holds...

Another inaccurate one... And my bolt handle stays on and I'll take the longer, stronger more reliable extractor...



PS: that's FOUR (4) shots...

I stopped guiding quite some time ago... We chase brown bears for fun these days.

Stocks can be made for about anything... but the notion of shooting a big rifle without a bit of cast is a lot more troubling than a little thing like a brazed bolt handle...

And that touch of cast will allow you to stay on target and see what is happening far more readily than anything else. Good luck finding cast in a synthetic stock (I realize you likely use wood stocks).

I just like to read some of the ridiculous stuff for grins...
art

Ever read Don Heath's writings on rifle reliability at the Professional Hunter Qualification Trials at Rifa? Interesting reading and from a man who's been there and done that and none of it is ridiculous..

jorgeI, I found that article and it is interesting reading. I really don't think Don thinks any rifle is built right! Especially Weatherby's!

Sitka Deer: My stock seems to be working fine in the conditions I've put her through so far! I will be very honest with you, I take care of my girl with the utmost care!

Very nice rifles.. They are all very sharp.

Winchester does have their Alaskan now, with the laminate and SS barrel.. A good choice if you don't like synthetic.

Winchester currently makes a stainless 375. It has a laminated stock, instead of a synthetic.

My 375 WBY is a custom on a Whitworth action. These are around in 375 H&H from the factory and are pretty well though of, as far as I understand. I really like mine. Just another option.

My .375 is nothing fancy but it is a short range thumper.

Marlin 375 in .375 Win, second from top.



The other are Marlin 1895 .45-70 (top), Marlin 336 .30-30 (3rd down) and Browning B92 .44 Mag (bottom).

My hunting buddy and I coined a term for our lever guns (he also has a Marlin 336 .30-30):

"Lever-action Satisfaction"

Mine is a Ruger # 3 in .375 JDJ with an old Leupold that has a post cross hair. This gun is very accurate with 285 gr. Grand Slams and IRM-4320.

I agree with Bob. My first thoughts were, this guy (the OP) needs to cut thru the bs and buy a classic stainless with the synthetic stock and just hunt the dang thing. Bob also points out some very good things that should be on the "to do list" as well. Good post Bob....

Good point. I was very intrigued by this cartridge until my 375 fell into my lap and decided to just go the old H&H route. Since everyone else is showing pictures, I figure I might as well too ...:

Man, that is a beautiful 375! Great shooter too!