Don't know if this has ever been discussed, but I experienced something yesterday I've never seen with any of the 10 or so Kimber MT's I've owned.

Had a small, threaded, set-pin back-out, not allowing the bolt to cycle.

I took the pin out, degreased it, blue loc-tighted it and re-set it. A dab of nail polish on top sealed the deal.

I doubt I'll ever have another problem, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Certainly wouldn't want to have discovered the issue with a 340 bull staring at me...

The set screw shown holds the screw at the back of the bolt in place, which adjusts firing pin protrusion. If it backs out, you can have light strike issues. Good call on loc-tighting the set screw in place!

Is that the set-screw that allows you to adjust firing pin protrusion?

Should mention that it would be wise to shoot the rifle and make sure the firing pin protrusion is still as it should be, before taking it hunting.

PG, am definitely testing it this week... hopefully no issue.

Again, never seen this before, but I'd recommend anyone with a Kimber loc-tighting it.

Brad,

Thanks for the heads-up. I just checked mine and it's tight. I am taking your advise and going to hit it with some loc-tite.

GK

I found mine loose. I had to adjust the firing pin protrusion because it wouldn't fire. After loc-titing it, it has never loosened up again.

Thanks for the information. I will add this to my Kimber Bolt Action maintenance checklist.

Because I am a Kimber owner may I ask what other items you have on your "Kimber Bolt Action maintenance list?

Jim

Brad,

Experienced the exact same thing in both my 7-08 and 257R. Fix was the same as yours with no problems since then.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7876556/1

Good heads up there Brad....I'll have to check mine out.

And just so TAK doesn't have to say it I'll do it for him.

"Thats why you don't buy a piece of crap, no good shooting Kimber."

Thanks for sharing. Will check mine. I did happen to check the function on mine before heading up the mountain Saturday morning and it would not cock when cycling the bolt. It had been exposed to an excessive amount of snow and wet the day prior (a story in itself), and was in the teens that night. Bottom line, a little heat (~1 min) from my pack stove to the trigger and back of action and it worked fine. Couple hours later in the very cold temps and it went off on a nice bull. That little check, and noticing it did not cock, saved me a bull.

Checking all my KImbers tomorrow.

Thanks for the tip, guys.

32-20 warned me about this a few months ago when I first bought my Kimber. Mine wasn't falling out, but not exactly tight after ~150 rounds. Used some blue loc-tite.

Anyone know what the normal pin protrusion spec is?

Best prevention is not to buy a Kimber. That is one of the lamest designs I have ever seen. Even the Savage is far more positive and can't come loose or inadvertently change. I wonder, did Kimber patent that design, or is it protected by the shear stupidity it displays.

You can flame me, but I've seen too many Kimbers go south at the range.

Firing pin protrusion on any rifle should be .040"-.060".

I had a few light primer strikes when I first bought mine. Read about the fix here. Adjusted the firing pin and all was well for about a year then it happened again. Checked and the screw had loosened again. Fixed it a 2nd time and did a better job if securing the screw and have had zero issues since. Mine never backed out enough to prevent the bolt from cycling.

Admittedly a quirk on Kimbers that should not be there. But easily taken care of, and Kimbers are worth the trouble IMHO. All rifles have their quirks. We all learn to live with them.

Rug3,

I am new to the Kimber Montana having recently purchased one here that was listed in the classifieds. I have followed the various discussions from Kimber owners and approached my purchase with some caution. I asked another member who has extensive experience with these rifles for advice that would get me started in the right direction with a new unproven rifle. What follows is condensed from that exchange.

Giving credit to Shortactionsmoker the short list is: check mag box front and back for seating depth,check front action screw length, check length of front scope base screw and finally bedding quality. We can now add the bolt screw to the list.
Perhaps I should have used the term "trouble shooting".

My thanks to SAS for sharing his knowledge. I as well appreciate what Brad has shared in this thread.

I did this to two of my formally owned Kimbers. Its good you brought it everyones attention, Brad. I'm sure they will need your address to get the check to you!

Oh I was SHOCKED that Kimber designed and shipped such a rifle! Kimber Montana owners are about as deluded as rack-grade 1911 nuts. Both are convinced that the Kimber is a "free lunch", IE a $2500 gun for less than half the money. You pay your money and you take your chances.

no its a cheap fly weight gun with all the possible issues of buying something on the cheap end of the scale.....and mine is still always the first gun i reach for even if its not the most accurate gun i own....

Probably amazing that mine still works given it spends almost as many days a field a year as you do on here typing about how horrid Kimbers are....nah I don't carry it quite that much...never mind

I thought you'd orphaned the Kimber for a Browning?

Actually... The firing pin protrusion on Kimbers is not SUPPOSED to be adjusted with the two screws. However MANY of them ARE. The firing pin should come to rest against the front collar inside the bolt sleeve. The protrusion should not be set by the cocking piece slapping the [bleep] out of the cocking notch in the bolt sleeve. Turn the screw into bolt until you feel it come flush against the collar in the bolt, then go at least a half turn more (any more at this point won't make the protrusion increase any) Now, check the protrusion with the back end of a set of calipers. If it's .040 to .060, run it... If it's more, contact Kimber, or take it to a gunsmith. It's definitely not going to be short if you set it the way it's supposed to be set..... Also, if you have to remove the firing pin for machine work, put the new +p mainspring in it. Kimber beefed them up around the time that the Roberts showed up in the lineup...

Also, this is uncommon to ever see on an 84L. They pretty well had the issue ironed out by then.

Just about every Kimber 84 out there has that problem... It's a long story

Yep...it didn't see much use as my brother had it most of the season....but its back now and got 4 more hunts to go one atleast yet before the year is out...:D

Just went and checked my 243 and 257 Roberts.

Roberts was okay but the 243 was backing out.

Removed, degreased, loctited and noticed their was a lot of slop in the tiny allen head. Sure enough the bastard stripped right out with very little pressure.

Backed it out and will have to look for a better replacement.

Both screws have sloppy machining, didn't even bother to try tightening the other one.

Allen wrench had never been used so it's not like the corners were rounded on it.



Brad, kinda looks like the screw in your pic is also rounded?

Guys,
Dan Adair jogged my memory on the three times I adjusted the length of my firing pin. The first time my local gunsmith did
it by just turning the screw IN, thus pushing the firing pin outward and checked the length by releasing the firing pin by turning the safety to the FIRE position. This protruded the firing pin and allowed him to
assure himself it was sticking out far enough. He "cocked" the firing pin by hand, holding a piece of rag over the mechanism.

Now I don't doubt what Brad did. I'm wondering if that set screw was something new to Kimber. I don't recall one being there but I'm pretty old too and don't remember everything. Also I'm wondering Brad, if you saw when you disassembled the bolt, that the set screw was visible inside the bolt sleeve. Further, the position of the set screw looks too far forward from the position of the firing pin set screw to have any contact or relevance.

I posted a lengthy description of how to do this - maybe two years and beyond the ability to use the search function. I'll have to check.

Joe, here it is:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4486293/1

Sam, it is... cycling the bolt with it protruding and dragging across the tang/screw rounded it a bit.

10-4 Brad.

I just found the link you posted and was reading it, yahoo works way faster than the search here!

Definitely google-foo is faster!

Here's bigwhoop's excellent directions:

1. Verify an empty chamber and put on safe.
2. Move the safety to position #2.
3. Remove bolt. The firing pin is cocked and NOT protruding from the bolt.
4. Hold the bolt in your left hand (so you can see the 3 digit s/n looking up at you on the handle) and rotate the cocking piece with your right hand COUNTERCLOCKWISE. It will lock into the next position. Now push the safety into the "fire" position. The firing pin will snap forward and now the pin will be protruding from the bolt hole. You can measure it, photo it or make a mental pic of it. It should be barely protruding based on your earlier primer photos.
5. Now is when you can loosen the locking set screw with a 1/16th hexhead - just a couple of turns. Now, using a properly fitting slotted screwdriver you can turn the screw CLOCKWISE and watch the pin protrude further. I think 1/2-3/4 will do it. You can photo it or measure it although I don't know what you would use to measure it.
Re-tighten set screw.
6. Now you have to manually cock the firing pin. Hold the bolt again in the left hand and turn the cocking piece CLOCKWISE til it snaps into the small cutout on the rear of the bolt. It'll take a some force.
7. Put the bolt back in the action and check your function and safety positions.
8. The next range session or primed empties will check your work.

I have no dog in this fight, but, found the above riposte by "lanche" kinda funny, NO offence to anyone.

Anyway, as to rifle "quality" in recent years and in some rather costly and "renowned" makes:

In the spring of 1994, IIRC, after saving for FOUR years to do so, I finally bought a lovely Dakota 76 Classic, excellent Q-sawn English wood, in my favourite .338WM, from the best gunstore I have ever seen, "Kesselring's" of Alger,WA. This, was shortly before Klinton and our former vile Liberal government conspired to make it impossible for we Canadians, to buy guns, ammo, etc, in the USA and bring them home into our once-proud, now declining nation.

I was super thrilled to get this and add it to my growing collection with my original, still fine shape P-64 Alaskan, .338WM and a second one of those,re-blued and my "truck gun". The .338WM is about the BEST all-around cartridge for serious hunting and wilderness work in BC and is very popular here, so, I had my "Dream Gun" at age 47.

I found it would NOT SHOOT and in those days, I was shooting 2000- 6000 big bore rounds per year and was a pretty fair shot with .338s, ,375s and so on. Then, it would NOT cycle the 2nd and 3rd rounds from the mag correctly......for use in BC's mountains with our large and growing Grizzly population????? I was PIZZED OFF and it went back, TWICE, for adjustment and some custom work.

When, I finally began to seriously workup loads and "tune" this rifle, I was NOT impressed with the groups and that feeding issue was STILL evident. One evening, in my gun room, doing the neverending maintenance that a large and fairly valuable collection requires, I suddenly thought that the "W" spring in this gorgeous piece seemed a bit "weak" as contrasted with my various P-64-70s. So, just for giggles, I swapped an original, mint, spare P-64 spring into the Dakota and THAT did it.

The rifle began to feed like one wants all his favourite rifles to and ejected all four rounds to the same spot some five feet to my right. I was REALLY happy as I was considering selling this and trying to find and buy another P-64, did so, twice more, but, that's another tale. By, this time, I had managed to develop loads with RE-22 and H-4350 using the 250 NP and Horn.IL bullets that shot VERY, VERY well and had also found that the Federal "HE" ammo, with the 225 TB slug was sub-moa in my now "keeper" Dakota.

In 2010, having found a fine Micky "Hill Country" stock on that other site, and with some custom parts, Ralf Martini, customized this piece for me and it is 8lbs.7oz. of simply superb "mountain rifle". So, even these costly limited production rifles CAN and seemingly DO have various "glitches" when we buy them and it just requires patience,some gun knowledge and testing to get them to where we need them to be, I expect the Kimbers, to be much the same.

It WOULD be nice if every rifle came to each buyer, fully "tuned" and shooting .35" at 100, Buutttttttt, we all know that such ideals are seldom attained in the "real world". The advice given freely and as friends here can be a huge help in getting all of our gear into the most dependable condition possible.

BUT, then, the "problem" arises, now, I NEED a Kimber 84L,.25-06 because my .270s and .280s are too "big" for hunting Wolves and Coyotes....or, so, I tell my "CEO", with my best innocent grin...........

Thanks Brad! I couldn't find it on the Search method here.
So, I guess there was a need to loosen the hexhead all along!
Its been so long and I don't have a Kimber to reference anymore. Well, this should help those when they check their firing pins. Thanks again.

Do not use an undersized (RCBS) allen wrench when messing with the little screw.


I went and bought a brand new 1/16th $.34 allen wrench today and it is slighty bigger that the chitty RCBS.
.002" wider on all sides.


Good luck finding a set screw, special threads...


Guessing I'm the only idiot who stripped one out....grin

Another reason why I love the campfire, the wealth of knowledge here and member's eagerness to share is unmatched.

Matt, the screw was actually backed out flush on my 243, it was loose.


Gonna take that rifle hunting in a day or two and like Brad said, suck to have it be an issue.

Thanks to Brad and Bigwhoop for this. I have a 243 Montana that was suffering from light primer hits, and this did the trick. Now I have to deal with the inconsistent feeding and accuracy. The gun is accurate enough for my hunting, and will be used tomorrow for it's first hunt. The accuracy may be me, but I am able to fairly easily shoot 1" groups with my L61 Sako in 30-06.

It would be great if there were a sticky on how to get your Montana in shape!

Sam,

Can't you just use a gob of Loctite on the buggered screw and it will fill up the threads enough to hold anyway. I don't expect that screw has much load on it during use.

Kimber will sell the screw as well...

Hey, that really doesn't sound quite right.

Well, FWIW, here's my ritual:

First:

I buy one that has the barrel centered in the barrel channel, is fully floated, and has a good grind on the recoil pad. If both bolt lugs are making contact in the recesses, so much the better. Not looking for perfection, just close enough on all counts. Frankly, this generally precludes buying sight un-seen.

All of this is my method for any new rifle:

a). Bed entire receiver and under barrel shank. This may or may not help but it will never hurt.

b). De-Grease bolt and trigger. Re-Oil.

c). Adjust trigger to 2.5 - 2.75 lbs (a good trigger is critical, especially on a rifle as light as the MT).

d). With fine rat-tail file, break top of feedramp.

e). 600-grit emery underside of feed rails and feedramp.

f). Snug, Loctite and nail-polish bolt shroud/firing pin set-screw

g). Remove Sling Swivel Studs, dab JB Weld on each Stud Swivel Shank, and re-set in stock.

g). Eesox all metal below stock surface.

Also:

I JB Weld scope bases to the receiver top. I generally lap/de-burr rings, but the Kimber is essentiall straight/flat enough it's something that can be skipped.

Mount the scope in rubber cement.

Blue-Loctite Scope Ring Screws.


Additional thoughts:

It's important to know a rifle as light as the Kimber MT is finicky when it comes to loads. Not only does it require nearly perfect bench technique, but its light barrel (and light overall weight) preclude it from shooting everything with boring regularity.

Since 2004 I've loaded and shot for 13 Montana's (have owned 14)... every one would shoot sub moa with something, but if you're determined/set on one bullet weight or particular bullet or powder, you'll likely be disappointed.

BUT, if you're more flexible and are willing to experiment (fore-going a lot of per-determined expectations/conditions), you'll find something that will shoot in the 3/4" range (or less)... if you can shoot.

The light Kimber MT will humble one at the bench...

What ever you do, don't machine the firing pin in any way. I made the mistake of letting a "gunsmith" shave off a few thousandths of the firing pin shoulder stop, thinking it would allow the firing pin to protrude more. It did, but it also screwed up the entire trigger mechanism. Gun would drop fire upon hitting the stock, slam fire upon closing the bolt etc. sent it back to kimber and it cost me $130 to replace the trigger and get new firing pin. Lesson learned! Just glad I tried firing some primed, empty brass before going to the range with it.

Brad, do you just use a spray degreaser?

After my experience this year I want to go through the trigger and bolt and get them cleaned and re-oiled.

DD, that's what I did.

The new allen wrench was just big enough to snug it up without stripping.

Should never be an issue unless for some reason I decide to try and back it out.

prm, I use spray Auto Brake Cleaner.

Sammer, when you mentioned stripping the set screw, I had a suspicion you might have had an undersized allen... glad to hear it worked out!

Well, FWIW, here's my ritual:

First:.....]

This is awesome. Thanks. Off to hunt this weekend with the Montana. Right now it is a 1" to 2" rifle; good enough for government work!

Glad to help!

No it sounds most apropos. They are used to seeing folks holding their ankles.

I see you're deep in the bottle...

One more thought...

I've seen more than one Kimber barrel settle into consistent shooting once the round count has passed the 100+ mark. Obviously doing the barrel-break-in-thing can speed this up a bit. Not every Kimber barrel I've seen needs over a 100 rounds to settle down, but I've seen it enough to think there's something to it.

And unlike the one usual expert who posts on Kimber MT's, I've learned what I've learned with far more than a "sample of one."

I found mine good and snug, but a little passionate pink finger nail polish was added to make sure it stays good and tight. Thanks Brad. CP.

Chris, you're welcome!

Hope you have a good opener next weekend...

Forgot one other thing... when the stocks are out of the mold and the recoil pads glued on, sometimes a vacuum is created from the heat of the cooling stock. On many Montana's (obviously not on the wood models) you'll find the recoil pad "dimpled" (sucked in) and slight deformed from this vacuum effect.

The simple way to release the vacuum is take a sharp, longish push-pin or heavy sewing needle and poke through the outside of the recoil pad in a couple spots above and below the Kimber logo on the butt end of the pad. Over a few days (up to a week), the pad will go back to its original form.

A 20 gauge hypodermic will eliminate the dimpling within seconds; did for me.

Thanks Brad

Somehow the photo got moved... here it is back.

Thanks again for sharing this info.

I've had three Kimbers of which two had the problem.

To the top with this one again...

Experienced light primer strikes at the range today w/ my 84M, remembered this thread and used my "google fu" to find it. Followed Brad's procedure, everything seems Kosher now - firing pin protrusion is 0.055.

Added this to my "watched topics" for future reference.

Thanks Brad...

David

There is a recall list if you google it.

My rifle was on the list, they checked it and it was in spec - what does that have to do with this?

David

If there's not a recall on this, there should be.. Brad's fix seems easy enough to do though.

I thought the recall was for this.

Decelerator pads are nice as they are so soft and squishy. When gluing one on, using clamp force to close the gap, they'll collapse easily squishing the air out forming the vacuum once the glue dries. They're prone to this no matter the temperature. Happened at old Kimber too. A fine line between just right and too tight. Poking them usually will fix, otherwise its bandsaw and try again.

tag

You guys every look at the lugs on the bolt itself? I just picked up my first Kimber (new) mountain ascent model. Seems like the bolt closed with a little resistance on a factory load. Took the bolt out and looked at the lugs and it does look like a scratch or a little gulling on the contact surface. I looked at the bolt from my extreme weather model 70 it also looked about the same. Yes it was lubed. Do you guys lap the lugs on Kimber bolts? Wondering if this won't go away after I fire and run the bolt a few times.

Run it a while if the lugs are contacting ok. Check by colouring contacting lug surfaces and working the bolt. Should give a good indication of how the lugs are bearing. Can be a little surprising.

I have lapped lugs in the past with fine valve grinding paste. Don't overdo it.

Tag

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