For example, I was never a fan of the 270 Winchester until just recently. I had nothing against it, it's just that I found it rather boring. Now I have one and really enjoy tinkering with it. **just for Ingwe, I love the 7x57 more! That new Winchester FW is a joy**

Another example. When I was a young lad in the 80s and synthetic stocks first hit mainstream, I loathed them. Slowly, the idea of plastic/fiberglass/kevlar stocks and stainless steel grew on me and for a while there I wouldn't even consider a rifle with blued steel and walnut. These days, I can take or leave a synthetic but once again much prefer blue/walnut. In other words, I've come full circle with a bit of tolerance for stainless/synthetic.

Here's a strange one: When I was younger, I couldn't stand the looks of revolvers that had non-fluted cylinders. Now it is just the opposite. Additionally, these days DA revolvers hardly interest me at all while SA revolvers are a great passion.

I could cite many other example. How have your opinions on guns and cartridges changed over the years?

my opinions have changed with experience with various stuff. I think shortaction smoker said on here one time, at some point youve been doing it long enough to figure out what you like and what you don't like.

I've found lighter and lighter cartridges suit my needs just fine.

I've come to realize that for the deer hunting I do - I really don't need anything above .284 to get the job done and really, nothing in a LA.

That said I have great dreams of a 7x57, 22-204, 22K Hornet, .35 Whelen and a 375 H&H as an all around battery for me. Last two might be a bit of overlap.

I have come to the same conclusion. Lighter and not necessarily faster.

I turned 20 thinking that I could do it all with a .243...

Aint' much changed except I've got more money and rifles and less time, on average...

working on chasing money less and taking more time for stuff i like to do...

I have gradually gravitated to the more extreme. lighter mountain rifles, heavier, more accurate range toys, and bigger cartridges to do the heavy lifting.

I have come to love the little ones myself.

It is a toss up between .223, .243 and 7.62x39.

I really have a hard time passing up amy of my 7.62x39 rifles for deer and smaller critters.

As I have broken-in my REM 799(Zastava) I like a little better than my Cz.

unfortunately i can do it all with a .243. i hate ohio.

Not much. I still like 'em all -- those I've messed with. I have discovered recoil and manhood aren't linked. Safety always.

It's not as fun to mess around with wildcats as it once was. The simpler the better.

When younger most of my hunting was with lever guns and every cartridge was .308 caliber or bigger, recoil was not an issue and weight was not an issue.

Fast forward 25+ years, the only gun in my safe that is .308 caliber or bigger is a 30-30, excluding the 30-30 the heaviest gun weighs 7 lbs 4 oz with scope and sling, Bolt actions all except for the 30-30 again

Still love DA Revolvers but a new passion for 1911's, shotguns like the rifles are all 20 ga except for a Marlin Mod 90 that my Dad built when he worked for Marlin and that has not been shot in years.

Lesson learned...a gun does not have to kick on both ends to cleanly take game. 6mm's, 25's and 7mm's are your friends, the proper bullet in the right spot, kills like lightning and those bullets can be cup and core

I'm heading this way myself. After 30+ years with a 7mag (I still love 'em), I'm finding lots to like about a 7-08.

Same here except I can't for the life of me figure out what I'd use something as big as a 7-08 on�( I just hunt deer these days�)

I've learned I like hunting lots more than messing around with guns.

I once owned Remington rifles and shotguns. Then they bought Marlin and ran a great company into the ground. I no longer own Remington products.

I didn't grow up a lever action guy. We had a BL-22 but did all of our serious hunting with Bolt actions. I now am a levergun nut and hunt with them as much as I can.

Could not agree more with this.


No have not really changed my mind all that much about a lot of things.

Me too except our rifle season is very very short.

Cripes it's the only thing that kept me from going batty at the loading bench.

Of course I have only had two in 40+ years....and really don't want another.

Not much in my current 48 years.

Started with a 243, found out you could kill a lot of stuff a long ways out there with it.

But that it lacked when it came to crunch time. That a mag or round with a big heavy bullet would be the go to rifle of choice for hunts where you may only get one shot.

I still adhere to both of the above.

I've hunted with just about anything at times, and I still enjoy a new challenge. Been through pistols, muzzleloaders, old and new, contenders, revolvers. Even snub nose 44 special for deer. And shooting tons of pigs with a 22 pistol. Up to the big rounds where you can reach right on out there.

Today about the only big change has been that my main go to meat gun is no longer a 243 but generally a 308.

For those that say small rounds can do a lot, they always have, I've done a lot with a 22, and a 223. But it came more around, due to better bullets like barnes bullets. Before that you had to search hard to find something that didn't come apart at times. I even ran partitions a lot but never really found them that much better than a good cup and core flat base bullet.

I'm to the point these days that I like getting a new round and shooting it, as long as it fits in the scheme of having a gun in most caliber ranges, for lots of different chores. And I tend to prefer off the wall a bit... 32-20. going for a 338-06. Have a 7x300 wtby. a 284 win. Among a few standard ones.

I've never cared for the 270 or for Ruger since Bill sold us out in the 90s. But guess WTF I won..... yep, bolt action Ruger 270. It may well stay in the box forever. Or I may just have to make it a beater truck gun that will stay in the truck forever just in case. Though I much prefer my ARs for that use.

I have this feeling though, that one of the next steps will be shooting a deer with a stone head. After hunting with bows almost exclusively from about 16 through about 35 or so, I was a bit tired and bored with even recurves and longbows. But I never made it to the stone head kick. Thats going to be coming in the future though I think. I tried knapping heads a bit and it was fun.

The worst thing thats changed, has been the duty to home. IE I used to only hunt during season basically... And now especially if home, I'll hunt a bit in the morning or evening, sometimes 30 minutes or an hour or less.. and then go do something that needs to be done.

* I used to think my choice of cartridge mattered.
* I've tried lots of rifles, and have to the conclusion that I like what I always thought I liked.
* I've learned that hand loading can offer a huge advantage over factory ammo. Or not.

FC

Buy once, cry once.

I would say my tastes have changed a bit. Liking the lighter smaller rounds now. They do all that I ask of them. I still enjoy the 9.3X62 and have taken several deer with it, but no long like the big magnums. The Steyr in 6.5X57 and a synthetic stock is working for any time I don't take the big CZ.

No, can't say my likes/dislikes have changed much.

I got serious into hand loading and rifles in the 70s. During a decade 75-85 I went FROM the 270>>>to the 06. Thot I would not go back. Didn't happen. I left the 06 and didn't own one for years until 2010 or 11.

I slowly went from HEAVY rifles to light (in weight) and have NO plans nor intentions of ever carrying a heavy rifle again. Light rifles will do all my hunting just as well as any heavy rifle. My 300 WM is a 70 Win Lite, all up, hunt ready is LESS than 7.5 lbs.

At far as cal/cartridge, short actions don't interest me. I have 1, a 243 that belonged to my dad. Don't ever intend to get rid of it.

I like and use high velocity rounds. From 270, 7 RM , 300 WM etc. BTW will turn 64 next month.

Slow velocity.....YAWN. I own a 6.5X55 and it's not very exciting. NO it's not for sale because it's a Win 70 XTR FTWT. Love the rifle and tolerate the cartridge. I can't ABIDE a softball trajectory, don't see any advantage or NEED.

Performance still works for me.

I have done so much in rifles, loading, bullet testing, chronographing BETWEEN hunting seasons, I know what I like and what works for me. NOW I concentrate on hunting more than experimenting.

I still love our 270s, but since I gave my tried and trued BDL in 270 to my youngest son have gravitated towards large calibers (375 Weatherby, 500 Jeffery). I'm kind of a one rifle guy so tend to hunt with one rifle. I'm not spending 100 days in the field like I once did. I sure would like to again, maybe in a few years.

Ain't that the truth...

Now know an oz of shot will kill most upland birds and small game no matter what bore size or choke if I can manage to point the gun in the right spot.

Screw chokes do not offer enough advantages to offset the heavier weight barrels over fixed choke barrels and a light modified barrel is about as versatile as they come.

I agree with JB's article indicating 2700 fps is about ideal in a medium bore/capacity round for most all game and hunting conditions.

I use to prefer uncommon cartridges such as 257 Roberts, 7x57 and 16 ga. Now while I still have some of those I realize that I would have been just as well off with a 270 and a 12 ga and ammo is a lot cheaper.

Yep, for all hunting in the lower 48 I just don't feel a need for anything more than an 06 and would probably feel just fine with a 270. All my 35, 338, and 375's have gone bye bye. Kept a 300 mag just in case I get to Alaska one day and developed loads with 200 gr noslers.

I used to think deer rifles started and ended with the 6mm Rem . I now like other options with the 270 Win at the top of the list . I own and use the 7x57 but believe the 270 is better for all around use , but still love the 6mm Rem

At one time I snickered at folks who used 300 Mags on deer. I figured the excessive recoil and extra powder and noise weren't necessary for killing a critter that almost certainly would weigh under 300 pounds, maybe even half that. But after a mature, rutted up Missouri buck I shot made it 100 yards after having a 165 GK from an '06 put through both shoulders and absolutely demolishing his heart/lungs, I no longer snicker at the thought of using a big 30. I still use and love the '06, but can see the thinking behind using the mag.

Actually think the 303 Brit sucks more now than when I was a kid.

They are two separate hobbies that have a common bond. I enjoy them both.

Probably the main thing for me is the realization that the glass on a rifle is more important than the rifle itself in most cases, and that there's no such thing as too much magnification.

I used to never give barrel twist rates a thought. Now I do. I used to think that CF rifles were the ONLY way to hunt deer with. Now stick and string give me more satisfaction. I used to have a burning desire to kill a deer. Now I have a burning desire for my grandson to kill a deer. The one thing that has never changed is the 30-06 just can't seem to be replaced.

I used to work my azz off to get sub-1" groups. Now I am more than good with 1 1/2"+ loads which come pretty quick and easy.

This is true, esp here in the east.

I have found that when I was young and used to drool over the Weatherby MK V .340 in the glass cases I couldn't afford one. Now I can afford one but can't find one.

I used to dream about a M70 with a 24" medium weight barrel in 6.5-06 and a really beautiful piece of walnut with a Schnabel. Now I'm afraid to get one because it always rains when I hunt and I usually fall down at least once.

For me after many brands I've settled on a solid affection for pre 64 model 70's, every BG rifle the kids and I have of some sort or another is one.
I also figured it's ok for a guy to like them in their timeless factory form, custom stocked in a great piece of walnut as well in lwt synthetics, I like them all.

When it comes to handloading I do enjoy it but once I've worked up a load that works well with a certain rifle I'm done tinkering.
The more I hunt the better I fell having paid for great optics.

I can take the 300s for penetration, but if a deer with heart and lungs gone by an 06, ran 100 yards, he'd run 100 or even more maybe with same destruction from a 300 IMHO. Maybe further because the bang part is louder still.

The mags have never killed deer as fast as teh smaller rounds for me. I've had many more bang flops with 243, and only one with a 300 wtby

I used to like Remingtons.. Then I bought my first M70...

Things changed drastically at that moment..

I use to like brand new rifle's, now I like the rifle's that are 40 and 80 years old, It's like going back in time!

Never been one for magnums, though I do have a 7MM Magnum & 7WSM that I really like.

I'll never buy another though.

I like both short & long actions equally.

My favorite calibers are still 25-06 & 7-08.

I like a low mounted, 40-44 MM objective scope for hunting. Tube diameter doesn't matter as I'm not big on saving ounces.

A [bleep] trigger still doesn't bother me much if I can shoot it enough to get used to it. I shot rifles with schitty triggers for so long, I am almost immune.

I still shoot Partitions though Accubonds are seeing more time now.

If something burns me three times I'm done with it.

The only thing that has really changed is the shots I take on game. When I was younger I shot at running animals every season, now I seldom do it unless it's a wide open proposition.

Guess we get more conservative as age creeps up on us, tend to rely on what's worked in the past vs. trying new things and just get set in our ways.

Nothing wrong with that if what your using is still working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Too much wisdom for a youngster! I'm less into "things" and more into "doing things".

As far as gunny stuff goes, I've proven to myself that bigger is not always needed. I've seen little difference in results between my 260 and my 30-06...

I've learned that it is not he who dies with the most toys who wins.....it is he who spends the most time in the great outdoors!

Shod

+1

I've hunted Missouri whitetails with a 300 WM for many years and can't say it kills them any more effectively than the '06 or .270 that my friends use. I can count on one hand the number of deer that have hit the dirt immediately after getting smacked by my WM. The vast majority of them run 50-100 yards before going down. Nearly every deer I've shot has been tagged right behind the shoulder (I don't shoot them in the shoulder if I can help it), wiping out the heart and/or lungs.

Ooooh, that's GOOD!!



There's virtue in that.

it is really an instinctive feeling that if the deer runs after its hit, you need more gun. I've felt the reaction myself, and I can't even tell you have many hunters I've heard describe it to me. at the end of the day, if you don't want them to run, you need more shot placement, not more gun.

Back when I was young miniguns gave me wood. Can't afford the ammo these days.

Fella can never have too many barrels.

I've seen this sort of thing shooting deer with 300 mags run a little bit. I think the reason is that bullets for 300 magnums are ,generally speaking, designed to handle 300 magnum velocities and are meant to be used on bigger, heavier animals that offer greater resistance than light boned whitetail deer.

So some bullets don't expand on the deer as widely and completely.The deer are dead of course but don't know it.

Frankly I have noticed the same thing with the 7mm magnums and heavy bullets with lung shots.

One solution is to shoot them on bone but some guys don't like to do this.

Another solution is dropping in bullet weight or deliberately pick a more fragile bullet but at 300 mag velocities you will tear them up pretty badly.We used to load 165 NPT's, which gains velocity,and I have seen that bullet drop some big bucks with authority from 300 magnums...it also does not tear them up too badly.

This all leads to a conversation about "perfect deer cartridges" but who wants to get into that.

Really in the end shooting bucks with 300 magnums,which,while fine to do if you want,does not really gain you much over some smaller stuff but it will still kill them pretty dead.

I've never really understood the compulsion to drop a whitetail in its tracks. In my experience, deer bleed quite well and aren't particularly elusive to recover when hit where it counts. I'm sure ten guys can immediately counter that, but I haven't seen it myself. Nothing wrong with DRT, but I don't go out of my way to achieve it.

I've played around with a few different bullets on whitetails in my 300 WM and found that the el-cheapo Core-Lokt gets it done better than anything else. As you said, it will punch a sizeable hole, but there isn't much rib meat on a whitetail to tear up and the blood trails are quite easy to follow.

I'm the same way. I don't get bent out of shape having to track one 100 yds. others' mileage can and does vary

What do you do the other 356 days a year?

8snake I can understand it.

A while back one of the 300 mag guys at our deer camp said something about how the deer still ran even though he was using such a powerful cartridge. I asked about his ammo, and it was one or another of the tough type bullets. So I suggested dropping a bullet weight class, and going to something like a Federal Fusion. He did, and the deer started dropping right now style.

To be honest, when I was young it was made clear to me that handguns are created to kill men. That was their primary purpose...

I had no desire to kill a man so I avoided them with great disdain.

Now, you'll never find me without one. My thinking back then just seems so asinine to me now.

You weren't a Lynyrd Skynyrd fan, were you?

they ain't no good for-uh nothin' else ...

Hike, scout, fish, golf, ski....

Wimmen. Duh.

Good for you. As much as I love shooting and hunting there are other things in life well worth doing. It's called being a well rounded person and that will serve you well.

I have said before, seems like the fair sex and kids kill deer just fine with a .243. Macho men need at least a n '06 or a 7 mag. Now that I'm an old fart, I'm joining up with the smaller folks. I'm even considering using a .22-250 on a panhandle buck.

No, my two .270s and three .30-06s are not for sale, but four of the five have not been to the pastures in at least 15 years. I sold my last magnum a couple of months ago. So far, I have not poured that gun money back into another gun or three. I only have a couple of itches left, and the scratch may be hard to find. There could be a light all round rifle in the plans and then gift some of what I have to my daughters, SILs, and grandkids. Oh well, that is too heavy thinking for right now. Jack

gotta leave a little room for riding motorcycles, too.

Natedawg6 -- you got it right there.



Guys (8snake, rost 495 & arns9)

If you will allow me to inject my perspective on this subject, I have somewhat of a different take.

I DO NOT use the 300 WM on WT because THEY need it nor because I feel the 300s are needed. They are NOT needed on WT or deer in general.

I have used and use the 7 Mag, 300 Mag, and 8 R Mag on deer IN ORDER to accustom myself to the cartridge and rifle, hoping & planning to use ONE for Elk hunting.

Learning the FEEL of the rifle, trigger, safety, etc. while hunnting is VERY IMPORTANT before going on a Big Game hunt, IMO.


Now to dropping deer instantly, I know that you guys know this too, there ARE places to hit a deer and you'll poleaxe them. Obviously head shots if you don't want to mount them. Neck shots are tremendous, ESPECIALLY front on neck shots.

I have learned WHERE to hit HIGH SHOULDER shots and mess up LITTLE MEAT and get D R T results.



This small 7 pt dropped where he stood. You are looking at the entrance side. The exit hole was very small.

Now look at the INTERNAL damage.



I promise this is the SAME deer, shot with the 6.5X55 and 140 WW, (Hornady 139 bullet)

Notice the bottom portion of the spine was hit destroying the CNS and the deer FELL OVER. That was AIMED high shoulder but lower than the back strap. There was so little meat loss as to be un noticeable.

Here's a doe shot on an angle w/270 Win 130 gr. and you're looking at the EXIT side.


Now the internal damage. The entrance (left side in pic) was angled so it bruised the ribs in it's path but no serious meat loss.



I dropped 5 like that last year, ALTHO one was running and I was lucky to get a low spine hit (but I'll take it) <GRIN>

All of these were killed with a 270 W and 6.5 Swede>>>NO 300 mag.

SHOT PLACEMENT, very little meat damage/loss, D R T.

Still hate the 06' for no particular reason.

My first 270 is now my favorite gun and the 270 itself still has the mystical gee whiz for me.

Heavy guns suck.

Weatherby brass is too expensive.

3k fps for anything works really well.

I think a 5# 250AI would be the end all rig with a gorgeous stick of walnut and a mile deep gloss finish.

And my kids are my best friends......

No, nothing's really changed. I just never knew most of what I needed till I grew older....

Never really had any favorites as such, but I've had various rifles in 308 over the years and my current Remington is my usual hunting rifle - it handles all the game I normally hunt and has been completely reliable and accurate. It's also light enough.

I spend more time at the range than hunting, "informal" competition shooting, and have shot many different rifle disciplines over the years, none particularly well though. I've done Lever Action, Field Rifle & 3P, Military Rifle and have now come back to Field Rifle and Big Game Rifle. So I guess I've worked up to the larger end of the scale. Never been a long range or high accuracy benchrest shooter but do enjoy the odd "sniping" shot while I'm at the range.

I take my BG rifles out hunting with me but they are generally overkill. I've used a variety of loads on rabbits and pigs using my 458 - cast works well. I've taken my 375H&H out deer hunting (for some longer range work) but never saw any game at that time. I've also taken my 500NE double out pig hunting but haven't managed to see any pigs at the time either.

I hope to hunt buffalo (asiatic variety) up north at some stage.

Never! Even if I'm a current resident of Alabama...

I wasn't born until 1976...

Daddy was a preacher...

I've been making the progression away from heavy magnums to cartridges that are more shoulder friendly.

30-06 will do it all.

Same here. But that changed when I settled in the PacNorwest.

I used to always have to have the latest big boomers, but have gone back to my dads pre-64 featherweight in 30-06 for everything in the lower 48 and have not found it lacking.

One thing that strikes me as a little funny, or odd perhaps, is how the regret of having let a couple of really special rifles get away[sold, stolen in one case] never completely leaves your mind.

I just broke down and made a deal on Remingtion owned Marlin....otherwise known as a Remlin. Life's too short to pass up good deals.

In my family when I was growing in the 60's, you hunted with a milsurp 30-06, .303, or a win 94 30-30. No optics. Used calf money to buy a .270(700 ADL) in 1972 and never looked back. I was thirteen. Was a .270 man until three ago when I bought a 6.5x55. Now I want a 7x57 and a 300 H&H Magnum and have no justification.

I started with a 7x57, 257 Roberts, and 250 Savage. I have Improved them all. None needed improving but the 250 surely became a different cartridge. If I had to do it over I would leave all 3 in standard form. I have killed over a hundred deer in my life and I don't think any of them would have died any differently w/the standard 7x57, 257, or 250Savage. These 3 cartridges are the best medium to large game cartridges ever developed. The .250 w/87gr bullet is great for varmits and deer size game. The 257 w/100-115gr bullets is great for deer sized game to include whitetail, mule deer and caribou. The 7x57 will kill and has killed all manner of big game to include all manner of deer, elk, moose. What else does a man need. powdr

Have fooled around with a few rifles and cartridges, and after a few decades decided the bullet made far more difference than the cartridge or caliber. This doesn't mean I've found THE PERFECT BULLET, as so many claim, but have realized what kinds of bullets work under certain parameters.

Have, however, come to the conclusion that caliber does make a difference when it's around .35 or more. It's not always there on all sorts of big game, but it's there often enough to make a difference.

When I was in my 40's one older, experienced hunter told me recoil tolerance diminishes as we get older. There are exceptions, but that's generally true. Was also told by a couple of older, experienced hunters that older, experienced hunters prefer larger cartridges and calibers. Have found that 99% of older, experienced hunters don't.

Have reverted back to the fixed-power scopes of my youth, because have had FAR too many variables puke, with far less use. Have still managed to kill animals just as well, though sometimes have used 10x fixed scopes.

Loved fancy wood when I was young, though of course couldn't afford it. Went through a period of only using synthetic stocks for "serious" hunting for a decade or so. Today mostly like wood again, and though some of my fsvorite rifles have synthetic stocks, can't figure out why some people can say "beautiful!" when looking at any syn-stocked rifle.

I was told this a couple of decades or more ago by another very experienced guy......got to see a lot of mediums from 30-33 caliber at work on animals. But the first time I used a 375 H&H on an animal I noticed an awful lot of leaking and rather large holes by comparison to anything smaller...and in my mind said..."this is different from anything else I have seen".

At some point in the equation,it seems that frontal area and bullet cross section counts.

Have always loved the 22 centerfires, any I've tried.
300 caliber magnums kick too hard. Always have always will.
Love the 340 WB and 375 H&H, but really, what are you gunna do with em?
Hunt almost exclusively with Savage 99's now. Am always cooking up a new one.
The 358 WWinchester is WAY under rated, as is the 338 Federal.

Any more I try to remember that it's not magic, get the bullet in the boiler and they're going down.

Yes, they have.
I know shoot smaller cartridges, I am back to wood stocks, use scopes with more magnification, and have abandoned the suppaduppa ultralight guns.
I still have been unable to settle down to one kind of bullet, though.
I think that pretty much summarizes it!
Alvaro

My life has been a happy mix of synthetic, SS, CM,and wood/blue; many of which were straight factory and a few high end customs.I like the craftsmanship and grace of a well made wood stock; but if it's just "average" I'd rather have a good synthetic.

I am not anal about SS and have hunted both it and CM lots of places.

I do know I like rifles in the 6.5-8 pound range;don't really care for nor about short action cartridges(except for varmints) and hate squeezing cases for velocity which is something I did years back but try to avoid today.

As to standard case cartridges I have tried to hunt with a lot of them and have found scant differences between any of them in the way they kill animals.To one degree or another they are all "good" and they all "work" and there is no magic in any of them.

Drawing lines in the sand I have found the 270 works better and more consistently than anything smaller ,but have not spent any time with 6.5's and doubt they are any different from a terminal standpoint. Moving to a 280 gains nothing except theoretically,and even a 30/06 with lighter bullets seems not to work much differently.I have had dead animals with all of them,and like them all well enough.

I like to think the 7mm magnums with heavy bullets, and the 300 magnums with bullets 180 gr and up are different animals,a step over the standard cases and both have been great performers for me....but neither one makes up for sloppy hits and they still require good bullets and placement to see any advantage.I have noticed that both demonstrate an ability to expand tough hunting bullets better and more completely than the standard cases.

Above a 7mm magnum or a 300 magnum there are lots of good stops along the way in 8mm, 338,and 35 but years ago I sold them all and just went straight to a 375,feeling it would do anything the smaller mediums would do and carried the advantage for Africa if a guy ends up there. With todays good bullets this is doubly true. I always got around the heavy rifle thing in the 375H&H by building my own in lightweight versions dating back to the early 80's. This still works and anyone burdened by a 375H&H that is too heavy has himself to blame.

I agree with Mule Deer that bullets count more than caliber and have never found a perfect one, but have found that Nosler Partitions work as well as a person could expect and everything hit with them from brown bear down has been reliably "dead",and as far as I have killed them which is about 500 yards away(yeah I know this is a sneeze today

They may be boring and I don't think they are perfect but it was never my intention in life to sift through bunches of bullets to find out what worked and what didn't. I always just wanted to hut and kill animals.

I learned to generally distrust soft bullets because IME results are less consistent and reliable than with tougher designs, yes that counts even for my deer hunting. I don't care mush what hunting bullets cost but for general plinking and culling varmints and does, cost is a big factor.

For scopes I had little to complain about until I started using variables and shooting the rifles under them a lot...I love playing with variables,love the new optics,but don't trust them as much as a fixed power because I have broken more variables than fixed powers by far.I still use variables but in the affordable mid price range, once they have 600-700 rounds through them I dump them and buy a new one.

Modern high end scopes I have been impressed with are Schmidt&Benders,Kahles,and I have been watching a Swaro Z6 1.7-10 that has lived on a friends 300 Weatherby for 3-4 years and been shot regularly...it has taken lots of rounds and still seems to work fine.I am anxious to try a new Zeiss HD5 2-10.

Sounds a bit like "OLD" E.K.

Jerry

I've stayed "close to home" so to speak. I always did a lot of reading about deer hunting and cartridges as I was growing up and soaked up everything I could from Jack O'Conner, Larry Koller ["shots at whitetail"] and others.

1st gun was a Remington 742 in 308 and killed my first two bucks with that gun. Worked well and did the job.

I then moved on to the 250savage built on a model 38 mauser and used that for many years.

Went thru my 35whelen phase and 284winchester phase too. But, every thing changed when I bought that first 6.5 mm gun.

Something about that diameter just seemed right. It started with a military 6.5x55 swede that shot anything feed it into nice small groups. Then a 700classic in 6.5x55 and it was my gun I used in factory benchrest competitions.

I really made the turn when I got my Remington Model 7 in 260rem. IMO, that is about the perfect deer hunting combo. Short, light, quick to the shoulder, accurate as any gun, and recoil even the most tender shoulder and handle.

My love affair with the 6.5s continues with my latest buy, a 6.5x284 Norma in the T/C Venture. If there was ever a gun and cartridge combo meant for North Carolina beans fields, that is it.

I still love my other guns and I bought my 30-06 just for NC deer hunting years ago, but the 6.5s are my go to guns now.

If I could only own one deer rifle, I'll take the model 7 and the 260. Points like my finger and has never failed me. What more could a deer hunter as for in a hunting weapon.

dms -

I can't explain what I'm fixin to tell ya but here goes.

I bought a Win 70 XTR FTWT in 6.5X55 in 2011. I got a few boxes of factory ammo in the deal and it/they shoot very well. I've done a little pressure testing with good powder and bullets and haven't YET found a handload worth spit. I'm SURE I will but not yet.

ALL IN ALL shooting the factory and handloads leaves me blahhhh. I am NOT impressed with the cartridge at all. I killed a buck with it last year and plan to hunt it this season but.....

I love the RIFLE, but the cartridge... not so much.

Yes, I really like the 270, 7 Mag, & 300 Mag, so I'm sure that has bearing.....

In the past 25 years my taste have changed for sure.

I grew up in a family that all carried 740 742 or 7400 Rem..........
I now only own bolt guns

I used to drink the coolaid of magnumitest...........
I now own no belted anything

I loved the high gloss Weatherby MK V and the Browning Medallion.....
I still love good fig in wood just no more gloss
I now love matt blue sitting in synthetic

My first hunting rifle was an older military 7 x 57 that had been sporterized just enouph to include a 2-7 power scope. When I picked up the rifle at a local gun show the rifle was well weathered with most of the blue worn from the metal of both rifle and scope. I bought me a box of 150 gr remington core and proceeded to endeavour on a journey that would prove to teach me some of the more valuable lessons that I would learn though I wouldn't realize it for a number of years.

It all began early one morning just before sunrise the first week of November. I can still remember the frost in the air as I sipped on what seemed to be the best coffee I'd ever had. I can still remember slipping the small thermos into my pack along with a sandwich and candy bar. Our hunting party as usual split up that morning and we would meet up on the top of the mountain later. After what seemed likes hours of hiking the top of the mountain was in sight and I at the slow, patient pace I had chosen I was quite comfortable and enjoying the frosty smell of the air and the morning sun that had managed to peek through. At the top it was now time for a sandwich and that last cup of coffee that had been frequenting my mind. It was still quite cold and frosty however the thick midlayer woolrich I slipped on under my outer jacket along with the still steaming hot cup of coffee seemed to create a near perfect environment for a short break as I waited on companions at the top. Several sips into my coffee and they appeared over the ridge. It was a good lunch that day in the company of companions. After some nourishment and good conversatiom it was time to make our descend. It was then that an average sized muley buck presented himself at around 150 yds. My hunting companions opted to pass so I took careful aim....the buck humped sharply took to bounds and fell dead. The next 6 years I hunted with this old beat up weathered rifle poking a 150 bullet along at less than warp velocities proved to be very accurate, easy to shoot and the results were alwauys deadly. I never found an animal to still be breathing and expiration seemed rapid.What seemed to perk my interest however was and came as a bit of a surprise were the less than desirable results some of my friends were getting with 338 mags, 300 mags and even a 375 HH. Trips to the rifle range however quickly concluded what I had suspected all along. SHOT PLACEMENT most certainly and ultimately is the single most important contributing factor to quickly and efficiently killing of game.

Shod

At risk of blasphemy......
In my 20's just starting out buying rifles I thought all the old timers were crazy talking about there controlled round feed winchesters. I loaded up on Brownings and Remington's. I was convinced I knew something they didn't. I bought a Steyr and a sako too. I broke down once and bought a winchester 70 sporter in 300 mag.

Long story short I have sold all my other guns and now have all winchester 70's except for one sako 85 finnlight in 6.5x55 because you can't find them in model 70 and if you do they are a fortune.

By the way this is my first public admission.

Sounds like an issue with the gun. Even my military swede with enough free-bore to make Roy Weatherby proud, shoots 120gr Noslers into 1" and 140gr factory Hansen FMJ are often under .5". I think you need to try a different gun in the 6.5x55. Tikka? CZ? Remington classic?

I use to think the bigger the better...but with age, I don't see the real need for a magnum or even the 30/06... but I strictly apply that to myself, not others...

find the old 6.5 x 55 & the 260 seem to be a perfectly balanced cartridge.....and capable of quite a bit, with little fuss

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll keep that in store but 2 things keep me from being too hasty.

Factory loads shoot very well. I've set the COAL the same.

My loading has been limited or minimal so far. I expect to find THE combination it likes.


If all else fails I can just shoot factory, I don't have to have this rifle shoot bug holes.

THNX again.

Jerry

It hasn't. I was handed a Ruger M77 in 250 Sav. plus a few boxes of factory ammo for my 11th birthday. Dad told me to go forth and shoot, become familiar, and hunt. In my ignorant bliss, I went forth and killed big deer, little deer, medium deer, medium bear, coyotes, and pretty much anything else I shot at. I was happy.

Off to college I went where I was promptly told by "those in the know" that the little 250 Sav was too small for deer and bear. Never mind I was the first person in many years to kill a buck there but the seed of doubt had been planted.

I asked Dad what I should get and his answer was pick a rifle you like, get it in 270, 30-06, or 308, go forth and shoot, become familiar, and hunt. Much to his chagrin, I picked a Sako in 308 (he is a 270 fan.) a few boxes of ammo and shot. With that rifle I went forth and killed moose, deer, bear, elk, mulies, coyotes, and whatever else I shot at.

I guess I should have just "x2" Tanner's post as I really would much rather hunt than shoot. While it is interesting and learn from what I read, I have a very hard time caring about a lot of the ballistic gack that is posted on the internet..

Just an observation--could it be that, being accustomed to receiving a pretty good wallop every time you pulled the trigger, the easy-recoiling 6.5x55 felt like it lacked sufficient power?

Also the "good" powder and bullets you tried may simply be the wrong choices or combinations for your your rifle.

As far as how my own views have changed, over my 70 years, I have become more tolerant of individuals, but I'm grouchier.

I've figured out that if you can drill shoulders with a good bullet that critters die most presently.

Started with a 243 and should have just stayed there. That's what I use now, and cannot see that changing too much going forward.

30-06 will do everything well.

There is no "perfect" rifle, cartridge, bullet, or setup--BUT IT SURE IS FUN TRYING TO FIND IT!

I'm pretty sure that's correct. I had the same impressions yrs ago when I had a 257 R.



I'm trying IMR 4831 first, a lot of guys use it w/good results. I've got to find the right combo. I also have other good powders to try. I just need more time. Right now I have a SIL near death (ALS) and our deer season just got underway.

I'm not hurting for rifles nor loads, just need time to PERK this one.

THNX really.

I have learned things that a lot of other people learned before me.

Folically Challenged said it here, and Steve Bodio in his book, and many others: within certain broad categories, cartridge doesn't matter.

Like Col. Cooper says, if a .30/06 won't do it, don't use a .30 magnum, move up to a .375, etc.

The trigger is the most important part of the rifle. I can do far more with a 2 MOA gun and an excellent trigger than a 1/2 MOA gun with a so-so trigger.

2 MOA is more than enough.

I through rocks at the 204 for along time and wouldn't buy all the hype. I lumped it in with the 17cal. after scoring an good deal on a cooper 204. I changed my tune it is all the hype fast and flat as a swift and recoil less than a 223. varmint hunters dream.

Put me in this club. If it wasn't for my boys there'd be a lot more room in my safe.

When I was a UAF biology major fresh out of ND, I thought wolf shooting (notice I did not say "hunting") from aircraft was just awful.

Once out in the real world, I became better educated. Semantically also.

As to calibers, they are all good. You ain't gonna talk me out of my 243, .30-30, 260, '06(s), or .338WM.

I just use 'em for different purposes and as the whim strikes, tho I don't think I'm taking the 10 lb '06 or .338 sheep hunting anytime soon....

I love hunting as much as the next guy but where I live does not offer year round hunting opportunities. I have other interests. I love bass fishing, travel in general and whisk(e)y (all kinds of spirits, really) buying, collecting and tasting. But I never stop thinking about hunting guns, particularly bolt rifles and single action revolvers. The hunting season only lasts so long but the passion for firearms that I have never goes away. The two are linked, though. It's hunting guns that I love so much. All the tactical and target shooting stuff is interesting, I suppose, but not really my cup of tea.

I only use accurate rifles now.

Things I have learned in my 66 years: Never miss a chance to be in the outdoors, Losing weight from your body is more important than from your gear, lightweight modern gear is amazing and worth the cost, a laser rf and a good compass are gamechangers, practicing spotting and stalking any critter as often as possible makes you a better hunter you don't have to shoot to learn, constant practice shooting from field positions is more important than gun or caliber. A body in motion stays in motion, never stop exercising.

mike r

Spent the longest time looking down my nose at those ugly mausers until I came across my HVA. Looking back I have no idea why I disliked mausers (probably because I didn't know them). They are great rifles once you learn about them and know which ones to stay away from and which ones are sought after.

It's a lot more satisfying to get close than it is to shoot far.

Handgun cartridges chambered in a lever action rifle sucks complete azz.Waste of steel

when I first started hunting elk in Colorado,I was advised to buy and use a Remington slide action in 30/06 loaded with 220grain peters ammo, and fitted with a 2.5x or 4x scope, JUST LIKE almost everyone ELSE in the group that invited me used, and had been using for years, as that was in their opinion the very best combo available.
the first elk I shot with my 30/06 was hit well at only about 70 yards range,in thick timber,but he ran 30-35 yards....I just expected the rifle to do a better job at anchoring the elk.
I had good knowledgeable and experienced people teaching me, but being 19 years old I just knew after reading every magazine on elk hunting I could find that I needed a magnum,...so I poured over every ballistic chart,and talked to all the local gun-shop owner and saved my money and on the fourth elk hunting trip I had a 340wby which Id learned to shoot very well,during the pre season practice, and I became convinced the horror stories about excessive recoil were obviously written by 90lb weaklings, as I had zero problems shooting my new pride & joy! That 340 wby did a fine job of anchoring elk, over the next 20-30 plus years but in that time I slowly realized the old geezers I hunted with found those slide action 30/06 Remington consistently still continued too put elk hanging in camp with a single well placed shot.
(at much lower cost, with a lighter weight and shorter rifle that required less careful maintenance,and for which ammo cost was 1/5 the cost of my 340wby and on a rifle not subject to being scratched up as easily, in fact few of those old geezers seemed to care if they got a few scratches)
I slowly dawned on me that their point of view had some merits! IN the past decades Ive seen elk taken with everything from a 257 roberts to a 458 mag!
now most of those old geezers have passed on over the last 45 years, I hunted, and I,m an old geezer now and while I don,t regret using a 340 wby or 375 H&H for most elk hunts as they proved to be outstandingly effective rifles i look back and think of all the elk killed and the rifles used and its clear its not the rifle or caliber but the skill and experience of the guys using them that had the most effect on the hunters success.