If you venture over to the Long Range Hunting forum, I've been on a quest to take my 223 Montana to 1000 yards. First step was finding a good load with a high BC bullet. These are my groups with the 70 VLD:



Starting in upper left hand corner and going clockwise, I was playing with seating depths following instructions from Berger for finding the best depth. Upper left is touching lands, upper right is .04 jump, lower left .08 jump, lower right .12 jumped. All loaded with Lapua brass, Fed primers and Varget.

As much as I love the little 223 Montana, its fair to say that none of these groups are spectacular. Upper right group has most promise as I think the flyer was on me. I wasn't letting barrel go fully cool between shots. It was a cold day and barrel didn't heat up fast. These groups are better than the 75 AMAX groups I tried before the 70 VLD.

So where do you go from here? In terms of tinkering with the Montana, I can confirm that:

- Mag box is floating, not binding
- Front action screw is not too long
- Front talley base screw is not too long

Of the other "Montana tinkering" suggestions here, the rifle has not been bedded, and still wears the factory crown. Would still like to complete my goal of taking this little rifle to 1000, but I feel like I need better 100 yard groups before I go long.

Suggestions? Get it bedded/re-crowned? Play with new load? Sell and buy Tikka?:) Have a Kimber Montana in 270, and even with the recoil, that puppy groups tighter than this. And that one is bedded, and re-crowned. Maybe that tells me all I need to know.

Looking forward to discussion.

Sell the .223 Montana to me and buy yourself a Tikka.

It's been my experience that properly bedding and touching up the crown yields good results.

Thanks Fost. Will look around for someone who can re-crown. I'm in SA.

Bed the lug tight for starters...and I'd try some tip pressure.

I'd do some load work next and try another bullet. Bergers are pretty sensitive to seating depth and their test at 100 doesn't always show much. I've seen better and more identifiable results at 300.

9" twists aren't guaranteed to stabilize those bullets. That alone could be the biggest problem...

Get rid of the float? Or am I misunderstanding.

Yep.. Take 'em out a ways.

Yep...

I'm with SAS on bedding the lug and the 1/9 twist being in question. If you're going to run a long bullet in the 1/9, run it as fast as you can (safely)...speed is your friend if your on the twist bubble.

I've only shot 62's through mine so my input's from the cheap seats.

Was running them with 25g of Varget.

Starting seeing pressure signs at 26, so backed off to 25.

Was thinking 1:9 was enough for the 70 VLD. Maybe I'll sit back on the 69 matchking, or some 62's. Or get a 1:8 barrel made up.

And thanks for the pictures Shortaction. Never seen the addition of a bump, usually folks taking one out.

Put 'em in the lands .015"-.020", not at....

1. Go to 1000 yard line.
2. Shoot.

The 75gr AMAX has quite a bit better BC than the 70gr VLD. In the .22 Cal VLD line the 70gr is designed to feed from the AR mag and be seated to 2.260. It is a very good bullet but for 1000yds shooting from a bolt gun the 75gr AMAX might be a better choice.

The Berger VLD is a higher quality bullet and I would be inclined to try the 75gr VLD.

SAS, you'd go straight to tip pressure without bedding the action and free-floating first, to see if that works?

No, I'd bed the lug tight first. Tip pressure is a step further down the road...

EVERY Montana needs the lug bedded out of the gate. The slave bedding allows too much wiggle room. I get the lug bedded tight first and then start eliminating variables.

How do modifications like stock bedding effect the warranty on a new gun if it actually needs a new barrel? I assume it voids it, but would like to hear from anyone with experience with Kimber CS.

I have no experience with Kimber CS, but any gun maker that voids a warranty for bedding the action would not get repeat business from me.

I would say that for every ten Kimbers that supposedly need a new barrel, maybe one actually does. The tricks in this thread would fix the others. I'm thinking of a specific 7mm-08 in particular, once owned by one of the resident 24hour blowhards, which was fixed by another member here.

It might not. That's why I asked. Something I would like to know for sure since I'm saving for my first Kimber.

Any tips on bedding just the lug?

Bedding newbie here...

More than likely the worst killing coyote bullet ever produced. If you going to do that.

No coyotes. Just paper punching at 100 to find a load to take to 1000. Then some 62 TSX for deer in the fall...

OA, you won't be bedding just the lug, but the lug, the surface around the action screw behind the lug, and the first inch or so of the shank in front of the lug.

Send a PM to board member Karnis, he has a good description of the technique including photos.

Thanks. I'll do some searching. Seem to have seen that picture thread somewhere. Will try and dig it up.

Of course, quite possible my 1:9 just isn't stabilizing I guess. It shoots gamekings/matchkings just fine. But these VLD and the AMAX - things really opened up.

It's stabilizing the bullets fine, and those groups aren't bad. Keep experimenting, it will likely tighten up. But at the same time, you've got to be realistic about what you should expect out of the rifle. It's likely not going to be a 1/2" rifle.

The way Kimber chambers their 223, I'm not surprised it doesn't like a pencil ogive bullet. Shoot some 69 SMKs and see what it does first.

I've seen very few 1:9 223s that don't like 69 SMKs. Mostly my experience is in the AR platform, but they never suck in bolt guns either.

FWIW, my Kimber 223 AI shoots 75 grain Amaxs really, really well.

If you are going to chuck the barrel anyway, you may want to give the Tubbs Final Finish system a try. For about $35 you get 5 different abrasive compounds on 10 bullets each. I had 2 rifles that were 2MOA and it brought them down to 3/4 and 5/8. In your situation I would only use the finest 2 compounds. If all else fails, it may be worth a try.

It shoots the 69 SMK's into nice little triangles. Not touching holes, not any one-hole groups, but good little 3/4 inch triangles. I have a box of 500 at home, but the BC on the VLD and AMAX was so much better. Plus the reports from people like Prarie_Goat that his shoots the 75 made me hopeful.

I don't think I was loading too slow, all loads were with 25+ grains of Varget. Good components and confident in my reloading ability makes me think the rifle itself needs some tinkering.



I would normally agree, but I have a Montana in 270 that touches three 130 accubonds together. And that sucker punches me in the shoulder much more than the 223 kisses on recoil.

Keep poking around for different threads, there's a pretty good one on bedding a Ruger (on the top of the page) in Custom Rifles.

It's not rocket science, but it's not as easy as one would think either. Best to practice on a few cheaper rifles first. You'll get a hand full of responses on what's the best bedding agent but I think acraglas is probably the easiest to use (my opinion).

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...ng-adhesives/acraglas-gel--prod1038.aspx


If someone is near you from here on the fire and has experience, just ask around. If you were up around here I'd help you. No expert, but I'm getting pretty good.


ps: Was going to ad that I've got a Montana .223, but I haven't shot it yet Just moved, to f'ing cold out and to much snow all compiled with starting a new upper management job that's keeping me way to busy.

I've got mine bedded and ready to go though as soon as I have some free time and it warms up.

Glad it's working out...