I am gonna buy a new rifle this week and it has sort of come down to a Kimber Montana vs Weatherby Vanguard S2 Backcountry which has a cerakoted chromoly action and barrel.

Apart from a new Kimber being a crap shoot accuracy wise, I am curious as to the durabilty of professionally applied cerakote finishing such as would come on the Weatherby.

All thoughts / experiences appreciated.

I worry more about the condition of the bore than the exterior. I like stainless barrels for this reason. For humid/wet climates, a coating on CM steel is only a half-hearted attempt at weather-proofing in my opinion.

sns2,

this doesn't exactly answer your
question regarding finishes, but here's my two cents worth, absolutely free....

I have owned both models. the Montana was a nightmare that spent many miles and months back and forth to kimber for repair.

horrid build quality, abysmal accuracy, and lying lousy service from kimber. i'll spare you the long story.

the weatherby, which I still use, is a vanguard MOA. accuracy as advertised. great fit & finish for the money. no problems.

disregard the minute differences in the finishes you mention and consider the turd vs.trophy differences in manufacturers.

o.k. now let the bashing begin from those fortunate few of you who lucked into a decent kimber!!!

Maybe Eddie F will chime in...

Cerakote - tough, will withstand rubbing and sliding in gun cases, on the sling in the woods, and general rubs and buffs that will mark blued or stainless finishes. Will flake off if not applied correctly, and will chip and scratch off if abused. Think "leaning rifle sliding down a rock/rough surface", expect the finish to get roughed up.

Downside: If it does get damaged, the entire firearm "usually" needs stripped and recoated, it does not patch well. Most precision rifle builders will not coat the muzzle and crown, as the finish thickness can effect the accuracy.

I see and read enough Kimber stories that I wouldn't buy one without seeing it shoot first, YMMV.

I like Weatherby products, and I think they are decent about taking care of issues in their rifles, JMO.

I, too, had one too many bad Kimbers. I picked up a Weatherby Back Country in .300 Win Mag back in January and, so far, I like it a lot. It shot sub-MOA three-shot groups with factory Remington plain-Jane 180 Core-Lokts, and is doing a little better than that with 165 and 200 grain Nosler AB hand loads.

I guess I've been lucky with the Kimbers I've bought (7 of them). They are all very good shooters without a bad one in the bunch.

Should I run out and buy a lottery ticket since I'm obviously one of "those fortunate few of you who lucked into a decent kimber"?

In direct contrast, I bought a Vanguard about 6 years ago that would not keep three shots inside of 3" at 100 yards, even after a trip back to Weatherby where they admitted it did not shoot up to their expectations but only by a slight margin outside of acceptable to them. Nothing was done to change the situation and I later passed the rifle on to a new owner with full disclosure. After him messing with it for a few months more, I understand that it went to a gun show and never came back home with him.

They all make stinkers once in awhile.

As to the question at hand, I'd take stainless over Cerakote in humid conditions.

Like Jpro said, there is no way to coat the bore, so a chromemoly barrel is a crapshoot.

I have several cerakoted guns, and they do wear at the high points or contact areas, despite the claims.

Yes there is.

It's called Dyna-Bore Coat.

LOL

good call- I hadnt thought about it as a sealant but it must to accomplish what it does.

I have thought about trying this out. It almost seems to good to be true sometimes. Does it cure cancer by any chance?

This doesn't really address you question, but those seem like pretty dis-similar options... a relatively heavy Weatherby vs. a flyweight Kimber...

Yea, you are comparing an almost 8 lb rifle with an almost 5 lb rifle. By the time you coat the metal and upgrade to a comparable quality stock you'll have more money in a rifle that weighs almost twice as much. If you want a heavy rifle then the Weatherby is an option. Done right the metal coatings are not bad, just an extra expense. If I owned an older rifle that I wanted to protect it might be worth it. Can't see buying a blue rifle planning on coating it. I'd just buy SS and be done. Weatherby makes SS versions if you like them better.

I have no issues with my Kimbers accuracy.

I like the Howa action, but I don't see the added value in the Backcountry...a basic stainless Vanguard or Howa is about 1/3 the cost and the Backcountry doesn't add anything to that.

Compared to a Montana....there is no comparison...the Montana is a great lightweight package. Money spent properly bedding the Montana action is a good investment.

I haven't had a kimber so can't comment on the kimber vs. vanguard thing. I can say that cerakote while a good coating is no substitute for stainless. All my serious hunting rifles are stainless for a reason.

We have a stainless M70 Classic in 416 Rem. We also Cerakoted it. Also have a Rem XCR II in 375 Weatherby. It's stainless and Trinyte coated. We even CeraKoted our Talley QR rings on both rifles

Can't be too safe, still have to take care of them though

Yes, it does protect the bore from corrosion (just ask my friend who's rifles were in a house fire and looked like they spent a century at the bottom of the dead sea. Two patches and the bore was pristine, shiny steel again), and yes, it does cure cancer

That pic sealed it. Kimber ordered. Hopefully be here by Monday.

Hell, DBC probably causes cancer, but I still use it to rust protect the bore of my rifles.

I also don't quite understand why Cerakote or bluing over a CM barrel is so unacceptable here at the 'fire. Lots of animals have died after being shot by blued rifles. If one were that concerned and didn't take care of their rifle they could always coat with gun shield. Cerakote is tough stuff.

Jordan Smith - Re: Dyna Bore Coat - "and yes, it does cure cancer grin" How about male pattern baldness? Not that there's anything wrong with being bald (sorry Seinfeld)... LOL
Homesteader

So what caliber did you order?


Look up shortactionshooters Kimber thread somewhere on here for a few tweaks. And yes, there are lots of people who say you shouldn't have to do anything to a 1000-1200 rifle, but the tweaks are minimal and most people will do them regardless of what they buy.

FYI: I'm very happy with my three Kimbers (.223, .257 Roberts, and .280 ai).

The S2 isn't even in the same Universe as a Montucky,despite my actually thinking rather highly of twin-lugged Weatherbys in general. That in regards to weight,balance,handling,quality of componetry...and long before the sweep of S/S blowing the doors offa all things CM,that isn't chrome-lined.

Cerakote is a [bleep] joke,as a best case scenario. Though points awarded for the humor of a Coated Salvage 99 wearing flip-flop rings,as a Window Licking Trump Card. Funny schit!

I've been around alotta Montuckies(understatement) and have yet to see one that didn't dazzle. Though I have seen guys who cain't load,or savvy rifles,think they've gotten a "bad" one. Starting At The [bleep] Start,do reliably bear fruit and nip all "weirdness" in the buds. Hint.

Today is assuredly gonna be another Montucky Day and I might even schlep one that's coated...in paint. Weather that'd rate the National News anywhere else,is simply called "Tuesday" here.

Hint.

Wow. How do you really feel:)

270 Win

You can't SS CM......

[quote=Fireball2] [/quote

Nice!!!!
358 WIN?

.243. Had another in .358 that I sold to a fella in Alaska.

I've had/got stainless, then ventured into the current coating fad with one rifle.

Here's the truth, Stainless is forever, Coatings can be damaged just as easily as an any other "topping". All coatings wear and will eventually dissapoint you, Save yourself the time and Money.

Coatings, Men's Make-up for metal....

The next name for a coating, maybelline for Men.

Damn! I would have made you a offer on the 358
Who did the Cerakote on the 99`s?
Is the stock painted also or synthetic?
AMRA

Matt Yore of Sawtooth Rifles in Colorado did the rifles, and did a really fine job. If they made 99's in stainless, I'd be a big buyer. Stocks were lightweight models (drilled out in back) wood, and painted.

I had my 260 Monatana Cerakoted. Best of both worlds. Stainless isn't 100% stainless.

Cheers, Chris

sns2,

I'm afforded the luxury,of not being forced to guess.

You'd do well to be taking notes and applying same.

Hint.










'bore,

S/S or bust.

Literally.







Though I do gots me the knack.(grin)










'neth,

I've seen me paint S/S.



Just sayin'.










AMRA,

Do tell. How does one lose a bet big enough,to suffer a 99 in 358?

Sorry to hear of your bad fortune.










rock',

Hell...I've seen me paint Chrome Lined spouts.



Though in fairness,paint don't aspook me.

Would like to try a Montana some day,as I hear good thangs.

[quote=Boxer]sns2,

I'm afforded the luxury,of not being forced to guess.

You'd do well to be taking notes and applying same.

Hint.










'bore,

S/S or bust.

Literally.







Though I do gots me the knack.(grin)










'neth,

I've seen me paint S/S.



Just sayin'.










AMRA,

Do tell. How does one lose a bet big enough,to suffer a 99 in 358?

Sorry to hear of your bad fortune.










rock',

Hell...I've seen me paint Chrome Lined spouts.



Though in fairness,paint don't aspook me.

Would like to try a Montana some day,as I hear good thangs. [/quote}

Always wanted a 358 WIN.
Package it came in did not matter to me.
I will get by with my 405 WCF. till then.
AMRA

Well B,

B,

Although not everyone hunt's where its cold and wet,



or tosses rifles into a crick'



I'd have to agree with you on stainless vs. coatings.



And although blue steel and wood on a rifle is my first love,




Stainless has its place.


Best,

GWB

AMRA,

You gotta neck the suck out of a 308. Adding suck and going up,is no Trump Card.

Hint.

A REAL '95 chambered for Lion Medicine,would be a nice conversation piece/wallhanger...if one was into that sorta Fluff.

I'm into results,thus the ease in passing upon Turds.

Re-hint.









G,

The Texas Version of everything,is [bleep] hilarious! I enjoy your taking the time to expound upon your High-Heeled Golf Cart/Fence-Hoppin' "Adventures",as a barometer of anything,other than oblivious [bleep] humor. FUNNY schit! As per always...you couldn't knock the new,offa used pair of boots. Laffin'!

Humor Points awarded for windage adjustable rears and CDS,so as to to really make a "hard charging" "stand". Laffin'!

Here's to the perpetual hilarity,of your "best",being sooooooooo incredibly [bleep] shy of any mark. Knock it out of the Park and hang a pic of your Cough Silencer. Laffin'!

Wow +P+.

I too prefer SS over CM.

However, there actually IS an easy way to make CM more corrosion-resistant than SS. The "SS" used in rifle mfg is usually 416R, which is the least corrosion-resistant of the "stainless" alloys, but it's used because it's the easiest to machine.

If you have CM parts salt-bath nitrided (process trade names such as "Q.P.Q."---"Quench-Polish-Quench," "Tenifer," "Melonite," "black nitride," etc.) the resulting treatment actually has much greater corrosion-resistance than chrome or nickel plating and raw 416SS. This process isn't a "plating," it's a nitro-carburized case-hardening treatment that forms a layer of iron nitride on the surface. Appearance-wise, it forms a matte to semi-gloss black surface finish. This is the same surface treatment that Glock, Sig, S&W, etc. uses for their pistol slides and other parts. Stiller uses it on their bolts to prevent galling.

Unlike coatings, if you have a barrel treated, the bore will also be treated, and it doesn't produce a built-up surface layer as a plating or coating would.

There are quite a few companies throughout the US that offer this treatment, and it isn't very expensive compared to most other platings or spray on coatings.

I work in a machine shop, and we offer Q.P.Q. coating on many of our production parts for customers due not only it's corrosion-resistance, but also surface hardness/wear-resistance, resistance to galling, and appearance.

The only downside is it can sometimes warp parts due to the high bath immersion temps, if the part wasn't properly stress-relieved before treatment.

Good information, but my eyes are rolling back in my head a little bit...

Boxer, I am just a OLD MAN who has had his 4th Prostate Surgery
paid for out of pocket.
My Winchester 1895 405 WCF is a gift from the wife as is
my 270 WBY and my Mark V ULW 30-06 both with FX-3 6X42 HD scopes.
I have NEVER hunted outside Alabama and from what the Dr`s tell me I likely NEVER will.
You know a whole lot more than I ever will about guns,what`s best,what will not work.
But what I have now will have to do for the time I HAVE LEFT.
AMRA

Boxer's pics are a good illustration of what will rust when you don't completely coat everything the right way. That is one of the reasons I use Birdsong as they coat everything except the bore and chamber which if you're coating a SS rifle to begin with you're covered for just about anything mother nature throws your way.

All you gotta do is make you happy. I spent a number of years hunting with the 30-30 and .45-70. No ballistic marvels there but I really enjoyed myself doing it. Never had a .358 but I have had the .356 Win. and the .350 Rem. mag.