After having the it on order for about a month, my new Sako Grizzly in 9.3x62 showed up Tuesday. Gorgeous gun in every way. I was still thinking about what kind of scope to put on it and I've got a few old crappy ones of various sizes laying around with some mock up blocks I made a while back for determining ring height for different objective heights, etc.
Well I get the rifle in the vise with scope on top and decide to test the ejection because of what I've read previously about them and sure enough, live and empty cases both hit the turret every time. So I use my blocks to raise it up a little more, still hits.
Called and emailed EuroOptic.com today to see about returning it for another one. It sucks because it really its a beautiful rifle.
I love SAKO 85s but one can only wonder about their placement of their mechanical ejector in the center. Win 70, Ruger 77 and Mauser all have them in nealry same place slightly offcenter. They really messed up on that as it is a very common complaint that seems to run across mutiple caliber/case families.
If using a crosshair reticle, rotate the scope 90 counterclockwise and you'll soon figure out how to adjust reversed knobs.
I have two rifles rigged that way and leaves me a lot more room around that loading port.
Why scope manufacturers haven't moved that right side knob is beyond me.
I did try this and thought a little while about it. And while it did work I guess there's part of me that thinks that a rifle that costs this much should work correctly out of the box without having to do this.
I am with you on the advantages of having a left windage adjustment on a bolt gun and it should be standard on all scopes. There's one clear place a left handed shooter has an advantage over a righty.
Hitting the windage cap bothered me a little, but hitting the bottom of the scope and cartridges falling back in the action really bothered me. This happened 40% of the time. That's a no-go for me. I'll never buy another 85....
Is your 85 short or long action? The problem is more common on the LA's. I suspect the SA's are good to go. Mine was a LA...should have stayed true to my name!
Sako knows nothing about it. Beretta rather....... The problem as I see it is the 3 lug design moves the extractor causing this issue.. I have had several guys ask me to fix it. Sorry cant fix a poor design.. Ill stick to the old Sakos....has anyone with a 2 front lug rifle ever had one fail?
Everyone knows how poor a shot I am. I killed all of these animals and a bunch more with the Sako 3 lug in a 300 WBY mag. Sometimes 2 magazines full just to get an animal wounded and never has the gun failed to function...
I am saying if you were to you would have the same issue. I did on my 75 300 rum and on my Sako M995 30-378. Both LR rigs so m-1's were warranted in my opinion. Both ejected fired brass back into the magazine
This is a very common issue with Sako 85's especially with the 30-06 length actions, I have had several in every action length and many suffered from this issue, I like My scopes mounted low and I'm sure that had some bearing on My problems with Sako 85's but My thoughts were that a rifle in this price range should function properly, I don't think that's asking for a lot here...............Notice how high the Sako Opti-lock mounting systems tend to be, I think European hunters mostly use scopes with huge objectives (night hunting) and these high ejecting rifles are not an issue in their case, just My 2 cents here it's only a guess...........Good luck................Hb
After having the it on order for about a month, my new Sako Grizzly in 9.3x62 showed up Tuesday. Gorgeous gun in every way. I was still thinking about what kind of scope to put on it and I've got a few old crappy ones of various sizes laying around with some mock up blocks I made a while back for determining ring height for different objective heights, etc.
Well I get the rifle in the vise with scope on top and decide to test the ejection because of what I've read previously about them and sure enough, live and empty cases both hit the turret every time. So I use my blocks to raise it up a little more, still hits.
Called and emailed EuroOptic.com today to see about returning it for another one. It sucks because it really its a beautiful rifle.
Guess I've been lucky in my choices of those nasty Sako rifles.....
never had an issue with mine, other than that the actions were slicker than owl schitt and they were boringly accurate.
Best,
GWB
The key lies in those bolt handles you've got laying there. No long action 85's.
I wish like hell mine would have ran fine. I really do love it in every other way. I just can't accept empties tagging the scope and falling back into the action. That's a non-negotiable.
Try empty fired brass for your "You Tube" not a loaded cartridge with a bullet seated.
Also, I have experienced empty brass hitting a Minox scope with my Sako. The Minox windage adjustment cover stuck out to far. I changed to a Leupold, no problems from then on out.
Don't know whether you'll take my word for it, but I just tried empty brass in both the 260 Rem (m75) and the 308(m85). In niether case did the brass contact/hit the bottom of the scope.
I have 85's in every length *except* long and have never had the problem. I wonder if some minor tweak to the extractor or ejector wouldn't solve the problem.
Hey guys, I just cycled some rounds though my short action Ruger. Worked great. Not sure why your LONG ACTION SAKO 85 is having issues since my Ruger isn't.
The long action, 85 series, simply sucks. The older 75's and other long action models may have been good to go, but the new design is horrible for anything on the '06 case.
I suppose you could mount your scope 3" high and rotate the turrets, that's just not my game....and it wasn't just the turrets the brass was hitting. A large portion of the time the brass would simply go straight up, hit the bottom of the scope and fall back in the action regardless of cycle speed. This was with their uber OptiLock rings and bases. It's a flawed design...period.
Well I get the rifle in the vise with scope on top and decide to test the ejection because of what I've read previously about them and sure enough, live and empty cases both hit the turret every time. So I use my blocks to raise it up a little more, still hits.
Called and emailed EuroOptic.com today to see about returning it for another one. It sucks because it really its a beautiful rifle.
I have a M85 Black Bear chambered 9.3x62 with a 30mm tube S&B Zenith mounted in the newer Optilock Ringmounts. The scope tube center is mounted 1.64" over the bore centerline above the chamber. I shot this rifle with the scope mounted and with it removed to address the iron sights. So far, it has proven to be the most reliable "out the box" production rifle I've handled when it comes to feeding. Even though this Zenith is markedly bulkier over the ejection port compared to a standard 1" Leupold hunting scope with normal turrets, my rifle cycles exceedingly well with no issues. I also have experience with 85s in 338 and 375, in addition to this latest 9.3x62. All functioned correctly out the box with the last being near perfection.
As to scope height, I mount a rifle same as I mount an upland shotgun, without any stock crawl. I find my combination to be a perfect height for my mount, I'd not want it any higher or lower. The dimensions of the Sako stock place my line of sight down the center of the scope tube using the ringmounts. If I were a certified member of the stock crawlers guild, I'd have trouble with the Sako ergonomics.
I just inspected mine by cycling fired Lapua, Norma, and Hornady cases. Cycling fast or slow, the extractor claw holds the case against the bolt face until it strikes the ejector. The ejector only makes the case tilt up high enough to clear the outer lip of the ejection port, and then at that point, the claw extractor pulls and flips the case in its direction which is the correct angle to clear the outer lip of the ejection port and go under the scope body. The force of ejection is completely controlled by the force used to operate the bolt, but the angles stay the same. If I reduce the force to bare minimum, the angles stay the same, but gravity pulls the case back into the port.
Same occurs using live rounds, but the added weight of the bullet requires additional force on the bolt to overcome.
I'd be curious if something was amiss with your claw extractor. Maybe it has a weak hold on the case against the bolt face and is overpowered by the ejector. Possibly this limits its ability to pull and eject the spent case towards its position. If this were the case, I could see how the ejector could dominate the process and push the case through the extractor straight up into the scope body. Maybe a combination of things, including the case dimensions itself, could weaken the extractor hold on the case causing such issue. Regardless, the design is outstanding, but just like my 98s and 70s, at times, things need a bit of tuning out the box. Otherwise, I would like to see a pic of your (blocks?) and testing contraption set-up. What kind of height are you raising the optic center above bore center, etc.?
This should give you an idea of my setup in relation to the bore center and fixed sight height. I have a custom guild smith model 70 that was fit to my dimensions having a similar stock profile. That rifle has custom QD mounts to set the optical center of my scope tube a measured 1.55" above the bore centerline over the chamber. The difference in height between that custom fit M70 and this out the box Sako is only .09", so for me, the out the box Sako is almost a custom made fit using the out the box Optilock ringmounts.
Hey guys, I just cycled some rounds though my short action Ruger. Worked great. Not sure why your LONG ACTION SAKO 85 is having issues since my Ruger isn't.
Coke Bottle and The Mexican...are on FIRE!.....................
I posted a video here a couple years back in comparison to a d'arcy echols rifle running through a full magazine box. It hung with the custom rifle at an impressive blinding speed without a single blip or hiccup, and the ejected cases had not a blemish. I'll need to search and find the video, but the pic below is of one of the cases from the video that was ejected from the 9.3x62 Sako. I've been running the same rifle since, and it continues to run top shelf.
Don't want to fiddle with mine because it is spot on, but thinking you should be able to increase or reduce the coil spring tension for the extractor claw for best function. Also, would think a bad batch of brass may cause an ill fit, especially if combined with a weak spring.
Interesting. That case certainly does not appear to be hitting the scope.
My particular rifle went back to the importer here together with a few bent cases for evidence, and a couple of weeks later I got it back with a message saying that there was nothing they could do about it.
I tried 3 makes of brass - Norma, RWS and Lapua with the same results.
My rifle went back.
I also know of a 30/06 with the same problem that was sent to a local gunsmith and they also failed to fix the problem.
Its very strange that some have the problem and some don't.
There are only three parts to the extractor equation, the extractor, an extractor coil spring, and a plunger. Brownells would be a source for replacement springs. Instead of modifying and bending a full length claw extractor, like on a 98 or 70, you should be able to alter the coil spring tension on the 85 to tune things up. If the claw is not holding strong enough so the ejector is pushing the case straight up through the extractor into the scope body, I'd think more tension should make the claw grip the case and flip it out the correct angle.
Otherwise, I've had one M40 and one Ruger RSM that I couldn't keep the cases from dinging on the scope on the way out. On those, a simple piece of bedding tape cushioned the blow preventing damage.
Edit to add:
Read through the thread and see someone has already posted a link above reference my suggestion of changing coil spring tension to tune and correct a feed issue. The link includes part numbers for the spring kit.
That's pretty much the exact same ejection angle mine has though I did just use live and empty cases to test without firing. Mine dented the brass, though not so badly. Perhaps if I had fired it, the warm brass would have been more malleable and would have dented similarly.
Gary, I posted about the replacing the extractor spring, and was curious to see if it did work. That's pretty much the only way to possibly fix it as I can't imagine there's much tweaking to be had with the ejector.
You asked about the blocks and they are simply wooden blocks I made in 1/4" height increments with a half moon cut out on top to hold the scope with holes drilled underneath so I can zip tie the scope to the top. They are flat on bottom. With a flat top action, like the Sako I can put the rifle in the vise, and set the rig on top. Not sure about height above bore centerline, as I measure from top of action to bottom of scope. I have them as tall as a 1.5 inches and that is more than the optilock ring mounts as the largest (30mm) of those measure only 29mm to the center of the scope above the top of the receiver according to this:
Just got email from EuroOptic. They are refunding me the full purchase price less their shipping cost of $40. Would have preferred a full refund due to the gun being defective but considering it was that or deal with Beretta and or try to fix myself for several months and perhaps not ever get it fixed, I am happy with the outcome. Pretty solid customer service all things considered.
Tikka makes nice wood/walnut guns too if that is your thing. The "forest" is a higher grade.
Yeah, it usually is. The freaking bummer is that that the Sako Grizzly is the "one" I wanted for nearly a year and there was no back up plan. I loved the rifle really in every way but it just didn't run right and that's a no go. Can you tell I'm seriously disappointed?
I've owned 6 long action 85s. 4 have had ejection issues hitting scopes. Guess which 2 I still own. It is not a good design IMO. I also had a 85 in 270wsm that would drop empties neatly back into the chamber, usually facing backwards. So the problem isn't only with long actions.
Well, I have a lemon too. Have a 85 Finnlight in 30-06 I have yet to shoot. It's still NIB. After going thru this thread I got it out along with some LC69 full length sized & trimmed brass. Brass bangs the center of the scope every time. Slow or fast, doesn't matter. If I go slow the brass just drops back down onto the follower. If I go fast the brass bounces around. Some fly out but it's a total accident. Scope is a Zeiss 1 inch tube 2-10x42 Conquest HD5. Rings are Leupold Medium.
From what I read here it's useless to try warranty repair. Guess I'll order the extra length springs referenced in the previous thread and go from there. But I WILL call Beretta CS. This is a stupid malfunction for a supposed high end rifle.
Well, I have a lemon too. Have a 85 Finnlight in 30-06 I have yet to shoot. It's still NIB. After going thru this thread I got it out along with some LC69 full length sized & trimmed brass. Brass bangs the center of the scope every time. Slow or fast, doesn't matter. If I go slow the brass just drops back down onto the follower. If I go fast the brass bounces around. Some fly out but it's a total accident. Scope is a Zeiss 1 inch tube 2-10x42 Conquest HD5. Rings are Leupold Medium.
From what I read here it's useless to try warranty repair. Guess I'll order the extra length springs referenced in the previous thread and go from there. But I WILL call Beretta CS. This is a stupid malfunction for a supposed high end rifle.
Man, I'm sorry for you shootem. Are you absolutely sure yours hits square center on the scope tube? Mine was definitely hitting the turret as when I rotated the scope 90 degrees left it did clear. If you can live with the "Alaskan Style" scope set up you might be ok. If you are going to try the spring fix I did find out that Brownells does not sell the springs anymore, but you can buy them from here:
Maybe when Sako comes out with the 95 series or whatever they'll call it, I'll try them again, but I'm done with the 85s.
Agreed............and hopefully they will come up with a different scope mounting system that actually screws into the reciever instead of the current cheesy clamp-on system.................Hb
Thanks for the link but no sad feelings required. It'll all work out. But yeah, the empty brass leaves marks on center scope. With my setup for eye relief they actually hit the center of the turret assy. Windage turret is unmarked. I'll leave updates as I progress.
Maybe when Sako comes out with the 95 series or whatever they'll call it, I'll try them again, but I'm done with the 85s.
Agreed............and hopefully they will come up with a different scope mounting system that actually screws into the reciever instead of the current cheesy clamp-on system.................Hb
You call tapered dovetails milled into the receiver cheesy?
Well, I have a lemon too. Have a 85 Finnlight in 30-06 I have yet to shoot. It's still NIB. After going thru this thread I got it out along with some LC69 full length sized & trimmed brass. Brass bangs the center of the scope every time. Slow or fast, doesn't matter. If I go slow the brass just drops back down onto the follower. If I go fast the brass bounces around. Some fly out but it's a total accident. Scope is a Zeiss 1 inch tube 2-10x42 Conquest HD5. Rings are Leupold Medium.
From what I read here it's useless to try warranty repair. Guess I'll order the extra length springs referenced in the previous thread and go from there. But I WILL call Beretta CS. This is a stupid malfunction for a supposed high end rifle.
Man, I'm sorry for you shootem. Are you absolutely sure yours hits square center on the scope tube? Mine was definitely hitting the turret as when I rotated the scope 90 degrees left it did clear. If you can live with the "Alaskan Style" scope set up you might be ok. If you are going to try the spring fix I did find out that Brownells does not sell the springs anymore, but you can buy them from here:
If you try it please post back to tell us if they work as I am sure a lot of people will want to know.
Maybe when Sako comes out with the 95 series or whatever they'll call it, I'll try them again, but I'm done with the 85s.
Thanks for the link for the extended springs. I have a couple of Sako's that have no problem and have had a couple that won't eject. I don't get why Sako hasn't gotten the hint that there is problem with the ejection system. I don't know how to get them to correct it, but I wish they would. It's annoying to have a rifle that does everything else right (for me), and to have a problem with brass hitting the scope.
....... I don't get why Sako hasn't gotten the hint that there is problem with the ejection system. I don't know how to get them to correct it, but I wish they would. It's annoying to have a rifle that does everything else right (for me), and to have a problem with brass hitting the scope.
No offense intended to anyone; but I am equally astonished that people would even buy them knowing hey have this issue....ie,they do not "work".
And if people by them,and Sako continues to sell them,they won't get fixed.
But then again these days people buy all kinds of things that don't work particularly well, and try to cover it with a warranty, which is worthless if your rifle fails to work properly on a hunt. If you knew of the flaw, but bought anyway, you are justified in spanking your self.
As punishment,some will go out and buy another! That'll fix 'em! This thread is entertaining.
Guilty here as well I just bought my first Sako ever A-7 Sako Tecomate 300 WSM . I sent it off to Hired Gun here for Cerakote externals and Micro Slick internals and have not even chambered a round in it yet. I will find out when it gets back!?
Thanks for the encouragement Bob. Guess I'm the dolt's dolt. Have to admit I didn't notice the threads on ejector problems until after I had the rifle. And somehow it just never occured to me to investigate whether or not a Sako 85 Finnlight would eject fired brass. Color me naive I suppose.
Maybe when Sako comes out with the 95 series or whatever they'll call it, I'll try them again, but I'm done with the 85s.
Agreed............and hopefully they will come up with a different scope mounting system that actually screws into the reciever instead of the current cheesy clamp-on system.................Hb
You call tapered dovetails milled into the receiver cheesy?
not only cheesy but super cheesy, ive read too many stories from PH's and others where Optilock's are not tightened properly and just slide right off the back. What's so strong about a tapered dovetail if your scope is just clamped on with the heavy, bulky soft screwed Sako optilock system? I have never been impressed with this system, i like my scope based screwed into the reciever like Sako chose to go with on the A7 model.........i will say that I do like the Ruger system as it seems much more rugged........Hb
The current optilock ringmounts use clamp screws having the same torx head and rating as the action screws which can withstand torque settings much greater than the specified torque used for scope mounting. I've removed and retorqued mine enough times to last a lifetime of mounting and they show no sign of wear. They are not soft. Neither the A7 nor the Ruger can hold a candle to the 85 mounting system, especially if used in combination with the new ringmounts.
If the spring tension on the extractor needs tuning, why not just fix it, it clearly works exceptionally well when the extractor has proper tension. Same with a full length claw extractor on a 70 or 98, if the tension is off having a weak hold on the cartridge case, you'd make an adjustment. The 85 uses a simple coil spring, not too complicated. If it is barely holding the cartridge case so the standing ejector pushes the case straight up and through the claw, then tighten it up so the claw has enough hold to flip the case toward its position. It works fabulously when in tune. It is a box stock production line rifle, so it may need some vetting and tweaking, like most any production rifle. But it is clearly uber reliable and feeds as slick as the best of customs when in tune.
+2 hillbilly....if it's so dang easy, why don't they do something about it?
Like I said before, I'll never buy another long action 85. FWIW, the Beretta rep for this part of the country is a local boy. He can tell you some stories relating to issues with the LA 85.
I also forgot to mention that I think the Optilock system is not only heavy and bulky but also is grossly overpriced, I guess Beretta charges by the pound.........lol.......now have at it Fanboy's.......this should be good ..........Hb
....... I don't get why Sako hasn't gotten the hint that there is problem with the ejection system. I don't know how to get them to correct it, but I wish they would. It's annoying to have a rifle that does everything else right (for me), and to have a problem with brass hitting the scope.
No offense intended to anyone; but I am equally astonished that people would even buy them knowing hey have this issue....ie,they do not "work".
And if people by them,and Sako continues to sell them,they won't get fixed.
But then again these days people buy all kinds of things that don't work particularly well, and try to cover it with a warranty, which is worthless if your rifle fails to work properly on a hunt. If you knew of the flaw, but bought anyway, you are justified in spanking your self.
As punishment,some will go out and buy another! That'll fix 'em! This thread is entertaining.
You make a valid point Bob. What I can say for myself is that I read the glowing reviews posted by GaryVA of his 9.3 Black Bear and while I did hear reports of some problems out there, I did not think they were as commonplace as now I think they may be. I thought I'd be ok and get a good one, and to be fair to the gun, I loved everything about it. Felt good, looked good, and was everything I was looking for in a 9.3 and was the only factory 9.3 I found that I felt like I wasn't "settling" on. Obviously it didn't run right and back it went. Just thankful I bought if from someone that would take it back.
local: I don't like to dump on folks choices in rifles; Sako always made a great rifle but damn!.....the thing has gotta work right. Rifles that don't function well drive me nutz!
Hey GaryVA...what's the easiest way to get the extractor out. Looks like pushing the plunger back into the bolt face should allow it to pop out but mine won't cooperate. I want to take a good look at the extractor hook itself. Can't get a real good look at it while mounted but doesn't seem to be much purchase area there.
You call tapered dovetails milled into the receiver cheesy?
not only cheesy but super cheesy, ive read too many stories from PH's and others where Optilock's are not tightened properly and just slide right off the back. What's so strong about a tapered dovetail if your scope is just clamped on with the heavy, bulky soft screwed Sako optilock system? Hb [/quote]
Any thing can slide around if not tighten properly. The dovetail on the receiver tapers wide in the front to narrow in the back. Recoil is distributed through the whole bearing surface of the mounting system, I did notice on new optilock rings they are using torx heads instead of turned down Allen heads.
+2 hillbilly....if it's so dang easy, why don't they do something about it?
Like I said before, I'll never buy another long action 85. FWIW, the Beretta rep for this part of the country is a local boy. He can tell you some stories relating to issues with the LA 85.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
In the few years you've been here, I've lost count how many rifles you've bought, put a couple boxes through, and then immediately sold. You've posted about correcting issues with Remingtons, Rugers, Winchesters, and a ton of Kimbers. I lost count and wouldn't be surprised if you went through two dozen Kimbers. The Kimber roulette bashers bothered you enough that you posted in great detail how you must tweak and tune Kimbers out the box so they function reliably. Correcting ill fitting mag boxes, loose bedding, etc., etc. You've even gone into detail on the SC M70s to check for and correct a loose and poorly fitting claw extractor that was much worse than the Sako in discussion here, in that it pulled straight over the cartridge case leaving it sitting in the chamber.
In all the great details you've covered on each and every rifle purchased and sold, you've made not one single mention of a Sako 85, other than posting you've had zero experience. And then suddenly, you come out of left field to jump on the pile bashing Sako 85s? Not one single peep of any attempts to make any corrections, like on the metric ton of Rems, Rugs, Wins, and Kims?? I find that surprising, coming from you, the guy who buys rifles like Imelda Marcos bought shoes, and who routinely goes through the rifle to vet, tweak, and modify until uber reliable.
All the long action 85 owners reporting great performance are not a fluke. Those having issues as described, appear to me to have issues with either fit and/or tension of the claw extractor. The person noted in this thread having the same issue, made a correction by increasing coil spring tension, to report now seeing stellar performance. Maybe the factory spring was indeed weak, or maybe the issue was machining burrs which were masked by going to a stiffer spring. Regardless, the Sako 85 is a production rifle out of Finland, not a hand fitted custom rifle. Beretta is merely an importer, and EuroOptic is merely a stocking dealer. Such a production rifle would likely benefit from the same vetting as any of the scores of favorite rifles you've needed to de-bugg and correct.
My favorite bolt gun continues to be a worked over and well built 98 or NH classic 70. Out the box production, my favorite continues to be a Sako. These have served me well.
You call tapered dovetails milled into the receiver cheesy?
not only cheesy but super cheesy, ive read too many stories from PH's and others where Optilock's are not tightened properly and just slide right off the back. What's so strong about a tapered dovetail if your scope is just clamped on with the heavy, bulky soft screwed Sako optilock system? Hb
Any thing can slide around if not tighten properly. The dovetail on the receiver tapers wide in the front to narrow in the back. Recoil is distributed through the whole bearing surface of the mounting system, I did notice on new optilock rings they are using torx heads instead of turned down Allen heads.
It is clear I am a fan of the new optilock ringmounts. Never been one to use big scopes, and therefore have room to work without going to offset mounts. So if the ringmounts fit, they are the best route. The torque rating for the torx screws used for the action screws and the ringmount clamps are well beyond the torque specs for the action screws, so there is no issue with having a soft screw. Sako specs the 85 action screws in the 55 to 57 inch pound range, with the same screw for the ringmount clamp being spec'd at 45 inch pounds. Individual rifles may vary, but my experience with 85s in 375HH, 338WM, and now 9.3x62, 45 inch pounds has proven sufficient torque on the action screws to provide top accuracy, while holding torque without walking. I found that I can remove the barreled action, and then re-assemble and re-torque to 45 inch pounds to have the rifle shoot into the same group. Same with the optilock ringmounts. I can remove and replace my scope and shoot into the same group when torqued at 45 inch pounds. Therefore, keeping things simple, I have a compact Felo Nm torque driver in my rifle kit that adjusts from 3.0 to 5.4 Nm, and use this driver to routinely break down my rifle for travel, and to remove scope to address the fixed sights using the same torque setting at approx. 45 inch pounds. Doing so, have not had issue with either ringmounts or action working loose while shooting or hunting afield.
Highly recommend the Felo torque driver for such chores.
local: I don't like to dump on folks choices in rifles; Sako always made a great rifle but damn!.....the thing has gotta work right. Rifles that don't function well drive me nutz!
Not offended in the least Bob. I totally agree with you. Lots of things add up to make a great rifle, but the first item in that equation is functionality.
Hey GaryVA...what's the easiest way to get the extractor out. Looks like pushing the plunger back into the bolt face should allow it to pop out but mine won't cooperate. I want to take a good look at the extractor hook itself. Can't get a real good look at it while mounted but doesn't seem to be much purchase area there.
I originally cleaned and prepped my bolt with TW25B leaving no residue. I have since removed the TW25B and have converted over to Froglube. Removing the cocking piece and firing pin is simple with two hands, but I needed an extra pair of hands for the extractor. I used a detent spring tool I have to detail strip a 1911 to fully compress the coil spring so the plunger was fully seated within the recess. I then used an extra set of hands to fish out the extractor from the bolt body.
Not sure where things stand with your bolt, but this is how mine is working. With bolt removed and in hand, take a cartridge case and place the base of case flat against bolt face below extractor. When you slide cartridge case upward against extractor, it should stop. You do not want the case head to loosely slide under the claw, and you do not want it so tight you must muscle case head under the claw. Best I can describe a proper fit and proper tension, the case snaps into place with an audible click as if it were a magnet.
As such, with bolt in hand oriented as if closed in the rifle and shouldered, the claw extractor holds the round into place and it does not fall out. It has the appearance of being one with the bolt.
Advantage of this 85 system vs. the 70 and 98, is you do not need to undercut the extractor for it to snap over a cartridge case inserted directly into the chamber. Therefore, I'd not want the spring tension so tight that it becomes difficult to do so.
Fit of the claw on my extractor is that it fills the groove of the case head and fully engages the cartridge over the entire extractor width. It would probably tear a chunk off the case head if the case were stuck solid inside the chamber.
I tried several commercial cases, with the poorest quality being HDY, and the fit was positive.
With bolt in hand and cartridge case snapped into place against bolt face, test the extractor claw by tilting the case to the opposite side of the claw. If good, the claw will hold and you'll feel a positive stop. You can roll the tilted case around toward the 12 o'clock position and still feel the claw grab and hold. As the case rolls around to the extractor position, it tilts out, same as ejection. So, if your claw was out of spec and/or the spring tension of the claw against the bolt was poor, then the claw would not hold the case and you may even be able to flip it out at the 12 o'clock position, or even earlier.
I'd make sure the parts fit well, without burrs, so they can move freely without binding. I suspect it possible going to a heavy spring merely masks such issue. But, if things are loose and move freely, with a good claw extractor, then maybe there are a batch of bad springs out there having insufficient strength. If I were switching to a stronger spring, I'd start heavy and shorten the stronger spring until I could snap the extractor over a case inserted directly into the chamber. I'd probably stop at that point and go no looser.
+2 hillbilly....if it's so dang easy, why don't they do something about it?
Like I said before, I'll never buy another long action 85. FWIW, the Beretta rep for this part of the country is a local boy. He can tell you some stories relating to issues with the LA 85.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
In the few years you've been here, I've lost count how many rifles you've bought, put a couple boxes through, and then immediately sold. You've posted about correcting issues with Remingtons, Rugers, Winchesters, and a ton of Kimbers. I lost count and wouldn't be surprised if you went through two dozen Kimbers. The Kimber roulette bashers bothered you enough that you posted in great detail how you must tweak and tune Kimbers out the box so they function reliably. Correcting ill fitting mag boxes, loose bedding, etc., etc. You've even gone into detail on the SC M70s to check for and correct a loose and poorly fitting claw extractor that was much worse than the Sako in discussion here, in that it pulled straight over the cartridge case leaving it sitting in the chamber.
In all the great details you've covered on each and every rifle purchased and sold, you've made not one single mention of a Sako 85, other than posting you've had zero experience. And then suddenly, you come out of left field to jump on the pile bashing Sako 85s? Not one single peep of any attempts to make any corrections, like on the metric ton of Rems, Rugs, Wins, and Kims?? I find that surprising, coming from you, the guy who buys rifles like Imelda Marcos bought shoes, and who routinely goes through the rifle to vet, tweak, and modify until uber reliable.
All the long action 85 owners reporting great performance are not a fluke. Those having issues as described, appear to me to have issues with either fit and/or tension of the claw extractor. The person noted in this thread having the same issue, made a correction by increasing coil spring tension, to report now seeing stellar performance. Maybe the factory spring was indeed weak, or maybe the issue was machining burrs which were masked by going to a stiffer spring. Regardless, the Sako 85 is a production rifle out of Finland, not a hand fitted custom rifle. Beretta is merely an importer, and EuroOptic is merely a stocking dealer. Such a production rifle would likely benefit from the same vetting as any of the scores of favorite rifles you've needed to de-bugg and correct.
My favorite bolt gun continues to be a worked over and well built 98 or NH classic 70. Out the box production, my favorite continues to be a Sako. These have served me well.
Best
I just saw this and have a few comments to add.
I do buy and go through several rifles. Maybe it's because I like to experiment? By no means do I detail every rifle I purchase and I seldom bash any platform that's not worth bashing. There are several in the safe that have no mention here..
I've never "detailed" any issues with a SC M70 with a poorly or loose fitted extractor. I've been vocal about their triggers, but in don't recall any extraction issues with the 70's.
There are several rifles designs that benefit from tinkering and Kimber is one of the best platforms currently on the market.
I've only owned one 85. It was a stainless long action 270. It was truly a miserable piece of work. It shot extremely well, but ejected brass falling back in the chamber isn't my cup of tea. As I said earlier, I'm sure the issues aren't as frequent in the short actions.
I'll stand by my other statements. It's truly a poor design. The extractor is simply in the wrong place to work properly with a standing ejector at 6 o'clock. The problems are so frequent, the rep advises shops not to purchase long action 85's because of this issue. I'm no fan of their Optilock mounting system either, but that's another story.
They do have what I consider some desirable features. I like the safety and the magazine lock. They feed reliably and have what I consider the best factory barrel on the market (I'm no stranger to Tikka's). Maybe someday I'll buy a short action 85, maybe not?
I'm glad you enjoy your Sako's and obviously you've found a "fix". Just as I've stated about other manufacturers (including Kimber), if it's so easy why in the heck don't they fix it? It's not like they don't have knowledge of the issue...
I keep it around so guys at the range can use it to pluck cases from Sako 85's that failed to eject.
If Ol' Rick wants to go on personal attack mode because I happen not to like rifles that don't function correctly, that's his business. Apparently this sort of rifle design doesn't bother him.He must own a pile of Sako's.I'll spend the money elsewhere, thanks.
Sizzle and no steak is always funny....I'm trying to be polite.
Don't own a one. Can't put a good trigger in one. I don't run my mouth unless I KNOW of what I speak ;furthermore, I'm prone to tell the truth!
Originally Posted by BobinNH
I got one....I stopped there.
I keep it around so guys at the range can use it to pluck cases from Sako 85's that failed to eject.
If Ol' Rick wants to go on personal attack mode because I happen not to like rifles that don't function correctly, that's his business. Apparently this sort of rifle design doesn't bother him.He must own a pile of Sako's.I'll spend the money elsewhere, thanks.
Sizzle and no steak is always funny....I'm trying to be polite.
Okay As usual the world is full of jerk, freak, EXPERT especially on forum.....
I have BIAS cause I have 6 sako.... 2 rimfire and 4 centerfire 85 actions..... Never Had any trouble or jam.... The sako 85 action is one of the smoothest & fastest action you can buy.... Accuracy is just top of top.... trigger too....
weak is sometimes like bedding.... such "mechanic" would worth better synthetic stock and bedding.... I own a 243, 7/08, 7mmRM and 338WMG and I plan to ad a sako 85 varmint in 223 asap my wallet could afford...
AND the optiloc works very well but it's a bulky expensive scope mount.... So now I use the optiloc "rings" without the base... it's a realiable lower mount or the Talley on my last kodiak 338 WMG....
If you ad a McMillan stock you have a complete set up for +/- 2500$ which is going to perform as well as a $5000 custom rifle....
Sorry for some redneck folks.... but you should understand.... Rifle ingineering started in EUROPE.... German invented all the modern guns we use today.... Kimber, Remington Ruger etc are just copy of what most of "out of the box" european gunmaker make better than US.... That's why you have to buy custom rifle.... If you buy Sako, Steyr, Mauser, Blaser etc you have US custom rifle performance.... sorry buddies.... I love Ruger firearms but it's not a Sako.... anyway.... buy a sako 85 if you have money or sell two or three craps to invest on one Sako but don't talk about you don't know or worst soemthing you have never used....
when I was young without money, I was dreaming of many rifles in many cartridge... My dad advice was save your money to buy ONE top rifle in ONE versatile cartridge more than Three craps.... One of the best advice I got... you can buy 2.5 Ruger; 3 remington 2 kimber or buy one sako... it's a choice... but please stop to speak about you don't know....or be jealous.... of people buying 2000$ or 7000$ rifle... I can't afford a 5000$ rifle but it's not why I [bleep] custom maker like McMillan, Borden.... moreover I have my "homemade" solution to get the same performance for 2500$....
80.5 grains of h1000 . 180 grain accubond out of a 75 bedded in a Macmillan stock.
Thanks.
I tried 81.0 grains of H1000 with 180 grain partitions and it would only do a 1 to 1.25 inches for a three shot groups. Same powder with 165 grain partition groups in a ragged hole.
I just loaded some 180 grain BT's with H1000. Maybe that will get me to .5.
Okay As usual the world is full of jerk, freak, EXPERT especially on forum.....
I have BIAS cause I have 6 sako.... 2 rimfire and 4 centerfire 85 actions..... Never Had any trouble or jam.... The sako 85 action is one of the smoothest & fastest action you can buy.... Accuracy is just top of top.... trigger too....
weak is sometimes like bedding.... such "mechanic" would worth better synthetic stock and bedding.... I own a 243, 7/08, 7mmRM and 338WMG and I plan to ad a sako 85 varmint in 223 asap my wallet could afford...
AND the optiloc works very well but it's a bulky expensive scope mount.... So now I use the optiloc "rings" without the base... it's a realiable lower mount or the Talley on my last kodiak 338 WMG....
If you ad a McMillan stock you have a complete set up for +/- 2500$ which is going to perform as well as a $5000 custom rifle....
Sorry for some redneck folks.... but you should understand.... Rifle ingineering started in EUROPE.... German invented all the modern guns we use today.... Kimber, Remington Ruger etc are just copy of what most of "out of the box" european gunmaker make better than US.... That's why you have to buy custom rifle.... If you buy Sako, Steyr, Mauser, Blaser etc you have US custom rifle performance.... sorry buddies.... I love Ruger firearms but it's not a Sako.... anyway.... buy a sako 85 if you have money or sell two or three craps to invest on one Sako but don't talk about you don't know or worst soemthing you have never used....
when I was young without money, I was dreaming of many rifles in many cartridge... My dad advice was save your money to buy ONE top rifle in ONE versatile cartridge more than Three craps.... One of the best advice I got... you can buy 2.5 Ruger; 3 remington 2 kimber or buy one sako... it's a choice... but please stop to speak about you don't know....or be jealous.... of people buying 2000$ or 7000$ rifle... I can't afford a 5000$ rifle but it's not why I [bleep] custom maker like McMillan, Borden.... moreover I have my "homemade" solution to get the same performance for 2500$....
+1 with the exception of Ruger rifles. I hate them.
I have owned a grand total of three Sako rifles, still have two. A stainless laminate 75(traded off, heavy...), stainless/syn 85 and a stainless A7, all 300 WSM's.
The 85 with lunker Z and optilocs must weigh 9lbs. Way too heavy for a walk around gun IMO. Shot one dink antelope with it, over 2k rounds through it but only hunted a few times.
Old pic when it was new.
Nice rifle, the stock is nothing to brag about but the barrel and action are slick(IMHO), great trigger. I keep thinking it should become a 270 or 7 WSM. Maybe a McMillian stock.
By far my favorite is the A7, 7lbs scoped with a 6x42 Leupold. Used it 4 years in a row and took 4 bucks with it.
Both rifles love the same 180 Partition load(yeah I know PT's suck....grin) 175 SMK's for fun, shoot to the same POI as the Noslers.
80.5 grains of h1000 . 180 grain accubond out of a 75 bedded in a Macmillan stock.
Thanks.
I tried 81.0 grains of H1000 with 180 grain partitions and it would only do a 1 to 1.25 inches for a three shot groups. Same powder with 165 grain partition groups in a ragged hole.
I just loaded some 180 grain BT's with H1000. Maybe that will get me to .5.
Dink
I was getting 3" groups at 300 with that load. Decided to bed the action to see if it would tighten up a little.
+2 hillbilly....if it's so dang easy, why don't they do something about it?
Like I said before, I'll never buy another long action 85. FWIW, the Beretta rep for this part of the country is a local boy. He can tell you some stories relating to issues with the LA 85.
a local REDNECK ???? or a local ex-black & decker ???? cause the only real problem with Sako that is Beretta USA is managed by ex-amateur from black & Decker......
some men have gorgeous women and they don't understant why they find them with the neighbor.... cause they don't know how ride them.... rifle are like womem....
I've had several several rifles for my young life span but I will tell you that there has never been a factory rifle I have owned that is anywhere as close as my 85 270wsm not close kimbers are nice and winchester classic with a good aftermarket sticks are great but the st finnlight is perfect in every way even ejecting cases I have read these forums about people bashing every manufacture known to man if you don't like your rifle put it on the classifieds and sell it buy something you want to try same with bows scopes trucks boots etc it's just a materialist item get another
I've had several several rifles for my young life span but I will tell you that there has never been a factory rifle I have owned that is anywhere as close as my 85 270wsm not close kimbers are nice and winchester classic with a good aftermarket sticks are great but the st finnlight is perfect in every way even ejecting cases I have read these forums about people bashing every manufacture known to man if you don't like your rifle put it on the classifieds and sell it buy something you want to try same with bows scopes trucks boots etc it's just a materialist item get another
it's like about my last buy....A 10mm Auto.... I bought one for my job after have read many "bashing" about this brand (jam, not reliable, trouble with this and that)frame is weak and bend under stress recoil etc etc bla bla bla...
It's fun cause comments always were typically looking like cr... coming from freak or basher.... I bought one, I load it with strong Buffalo Bore, CorbBon and I follow Tim Sundles advice I bought a steel rode with a 22 lbs recoil spring from Wolff spring... No one Jam, Damn Accurate (this brand is not supposed not be), great recoil control.... etc etc....
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