I'm going to pickup a .30-06 bolt this year for Eastern Whitetail hunting. I've narrowed it down to a Ruger Hawkeye SS or a Model 70 EW. I'd love to have some feedback from the knowledgeable gun guys on here. Thanks!

Both are great hunting rifles, but I prefer the Winchester safety and the one round greater magazine capacity. Plus, SS Winchester actions are generally smoother out of the box than their Ruger counterparts.

I have a Hawkeye, though in .308, and Gasman touched upon my complaints.

The action was not very smooth out of the box. I don't think I've ever had a SS action that was as smooth as a CM, but it has gotten better. Still not as nice as the SS Winchester I had. I've not lost an opportunity because of it, though.

The safety is too small. I did lose an opportunity because of that. First time in the field with it and I bumped a deer up that wasn't too alarmed. He probably knew I was fumbling with the safety. He wouldn't get away now that I've had the rifle 5 or 6 years and gotten familiar with it, but that was then. The damn lever could be a little bit bigger, though.

What gasman said is true. However, if you don't mind putting a little elbow grease into the Ruger, they can be smoothed up. Accuracy is generally quite good with both win and Ruger. The Ruger will be less expensive and come with rings. The Extreme weather will come bedded from the factory, which is an added bonus. The Ruger will undoubtedly need to be glass bedded.

I'd take the Ruger. You get the ring mounts with the gun. The Winchester is nice but the stock is to bulky

I agree Vic. The lever is too sharp too. I wish they were more like the model 70 and rounded!!

Amen. I'd take the Hawkeye stock over the pos B&C on the EW too. Any day of the week!!. With that being said, I'd take the duratouch (Win model 70 from the super shadow), winlite, and even the factory tupperware (old classic sporter design) over the B&C EW stock...

Ruger doesn't even stack up to an EW. Easy choice.

I'd probably take the Ruger. The rougher out of the box action doesn't bother me. Lapping compound and a few nights while watching TV can work wonders on a stock Ruger action. As others have said, free rings and I think the factory stock is better.

I agree that the safety is the clear advantage on the M70.

Yep, easy choice, Ruger all the way.

I have a Hawkeye in 338wm and an EW in 325 WSM. The ruger was a shooter right out of the box, plus its got the karma of having taken about all big game AK has. It ain't pretty but gets the job done. The EW is lighter, carries better, and is just plain sexier, but it so far doesn't match the ruger for groups, and hasn't earned its place in the rotation yet. It is much pickier about ammo. I find the safeties between the two to be mox nix. Trigger on the winchester is much better and adjustable without honing.

Out of the box, the EW had feeding issues also. Partly due to the short fatties in 325, but a pita nonetheless.

Fit & finish on some of the Winchesters leaves a lot to be desired!

+1. They were having more QC issues than just that too. My friend bought a 300 wsm EW last year that didn't shoot for chit: 3" groups at 100. Another one had feeding and extraction issues ..Now they are being made in Portugal: Go figure...As I've said many times before, the best FN's were made in 2008 when they made their debut. They really wanted to impress with a perfect model 70. They nailed it with their 2008 limited editions and early extreme weathers. In recent years I've seen their quality plummit and that's one of the reasons they insisted on moving production to Portugal. Honestly, It shouldn't even wear the model 70 name if it is going to be made in Portugal. In America, the rifleman's rifle has always been the Winchester model 70.

I could be happy with the Ruger, especially if you want to leave it as is. But the Winchester gives a lot more options for you to work with. Scoped around 8 lbs ready to hunt is about as light as you can go with a Ruger, and there aren't any real options for lighter aftermarket stocks. But to be honest the factory Ruger stock is as good as any aftermarkt if weight isn't a concern.

I don't care for the B&C stock that comes on the EW, and would prefer the SS Ultimate Shadow. The stock is not only lighter, but a better stock. Gun is a lot cheaper too. The SS Ultimate Shadow is pretty close to the Ruger in price.

I found a great deal on a used EW 308 4 years ago. Then a year later bought a used Edge stock from someone here. It is 7 1/4 lbs as it sets and will keep 3 shots under 1" every time. Closer to 1/2" most of the time.

Sold the AW 308 Hawkeye, which wasn't a bad gun. It was just 3/4 lb heavier and not as quite as good. I saw no reason to keep both.

After selling the take off stock and using $250 in Cabelas Bucks on the scope I'm under $800 for everything in this photo, rifle, stock, and scope.

Ruger costs less to begin with,leaving money to upgrade if desired or needed

Thats a nice rifle JM.

Please tell me your not crying? I have a 325 ew I bought last year holy [bleep] that thing shoots I use 4007 and 200gr Speer hot cor. I like the b&c stock.

My Winchesters are the older classic stainless. I like them. I think the EW is a little over priced. If I could get an older classic I'd go with that. Otherwise it's Ruger all the way, and even then I prefer the Mk II over the Hawkeye.

If you bought it last year, chances are it's a pos. Unless you like Portuguise made model 70's . Give me a classic or pre 64 and hold the fluff and pos moa..

Nope it's a South Carolina gun bought it 4 days before moose season last year. It was on sale at Sportsman's. It looks the Portugal assembled guns are just now hitting the streets.

Ruger for me. Here's the .300WM Hawkeye I got this year. Ruger replaced the original stock free because it was a display model and had dings in it.



Nice trigger and shoots great.

Ruger

The stainless rugers with walnut stocks are pretty damn nice...

Ruger

Call me crazy, but I like them too:



However, an EW in a good micky edge is pretty skookum too ...:


The Ruger all weather isn't too bad in it's factory synthetic either:

You and coyote hunter shouldn't count in the voting process. You are both way too biased . I vote either Ruger 77 or Winchester model 70. Now what was the question again???

LOL, I own 1 Winchester and I do like it. No rifle fits me as well as a Ruger 77 MKII or Hawkeye though.

The Ruger stock has always had the best ergo's of any I've ever held. Subjective for many though.

I do like Ruger and probably wouldn't look elsewhere until they gave me a reason to.

Heath. You must be built like a baboon.... . Hope your football season goes great this year!!

Thick chest, long arms, no neck describes me.


We are 4-0 so far. We will have a good test this week with 2 starters out against a good team so we will see.

Rugers made of cheap castings that require the action be beat on with a rubber hammer to straighten them at the factory(See Stuart Otteson) and they are shaped like a brick. The action is rough as cob and the rings almost always need to be lapped to prevent bad ring marks due to the actions being out of whack.
The winchester has a clubby stock, but is much better made.
I vote Winchester.

LMAO!!!!

I like both rifles for different reasons, but the above statement has me chuckling and giggling on the floor too.

I have a Classic stainless 30-06 and a Ruger MKII stainless .243 with a takeoff laminate stock with the same dimensions as a Hawkeye walnut stock. I'd take the Ruger. IF the plastic stocks have the same dimensions as a Hawkeye walnut/laminate that would be fine with me. If they don't I'd get the laminate stock (yes they are heavier). The M70 classic is smoother and has an adjustable trigger. With the new M70 trigger it doesn't have a real advantage other than being smoother IMO.

I have owned both:

Winchester M70 EW in .308 Winchester purchased new in early 2010 was a great shooter, the action was as smooth as any rifle I've ever owned. The new MOA trigger was as close to perfect as possible. I wish I still had that one. I traded for a M70 EW in 7mm-08 in 2011. Not as smooth and nowhere near as accurate. The trigger was mushy at best and would not adjust to an acceptable level. I'm glad it's gone. I have witnessed another since then that had the same problems.

Ruger M77 Mark II Stainless rifles that I have owned, and there have been many, have all shot good enough for a hunting rifle and some have been exceptionally accurate. Almost all needed a little trigger work, which over the years I learned how to make the factory trigger work very well (in about thirty to forty-five minutes). I never had to bed the action to get them to shoot as long as I got the action screws properly torqued and relieved the mag box a little. I wish I still had one or two of those rifles.

Having said all the above, I am not a fan of the Hawkeye stainless (don't like the finish) but I would favor the Hawkeye or especially the Mark II by a large margin over the Extreme Weather. They are rock solid, have an open trigger that can be worked, have a better accuracy record (with me anyway) and were made in the USA by an American company. For what it's worth, there is my opinion..........

Never tried Winchester ended up with a Ruger and like it quite a bit. That rifle is built like a tank and should last a lifetime. It did require me to bed it and free float it before I got "great" results! I'm thoroughly happy with it.

I think I'd take the Winchester. I like B&C stocks, and I like the fact that you can at least run sloped rails etc on a Winchester. With a Ruger you are pretty much stuck with their 0 MOA ring system. There have been a few aftermarket attempts at getting around the Ruger system, but they sit the scope up way too high.

If shooting long distance isn't your hobby, then I guess you could flip a coin.

esox, I'm glad to see you got that rifle shooting damn good. Well done!!

I'll bet the OP is really confused by now. This thread has a teeter totter effect ..He's probably already bought a SS Rem 700 mountain rifle by now

Yeah, kinda like asking which is the better cartridge, 30-06 or .270........

Thanks BSA, your help and advice was greatly appreciated on what needed to be done. I need to "verify" this load but if it shoots anything near that I will be perfectly happy. I ended up going to H414 and a 165 BTSP, should be a great Game Getter.

If he has, he's probably REALLY wishing he flipped the coin on the Winny or Ruger. LOL

Yup.

I have an 'older' EW in 300 WSM, a couple M70 SS Classics, a several AW M77's.

My take aways:

* Prefer M70 safety by along shot - but the M77 safety is functional if you get used to it
* Ergos of both fit me well
* Scope mounts on the M77 - indestructible but a bit heavy
* Talleys on the M70 make for a lighter rifle
* Both triggers can be tuned to 3.0 lbs rather easily
* My EW was accurate out of the box. My buddy's EW required bedding to get it shooting well. His now shoots better than mine - need to fix that.............
* The M70 is easier to make light weight and has more stock options
* All the Ruger AW's I have (4) shoot decent with the standard OEM - haven't bedded any of them yet.
* The EW came with a very smooth action, not so much with the Hawkeyes. A little valve grinding compound fixed the M77 smoothness
* Prefer the trigger assembly on the Hawkeyes over the new EW/M70's. Cutting off a coil or two also helps alot.
* M77's a bit less expensive than the EW's - and come with mounts. I also tend to lap my Ruger mounts.

All told, I could live with either the rest of my life. In fact, I have a mix of SS rifles all by Winchester or Ruger.

That's how I feel about it.They are comparable rifles and will give comparable service...which means either will outlast us.I'd hunt with either one.

I have not owned a SC rifle since maybe 2009 or 10....they came well bedded and free floated. The triggers needed nothing IMO,all functioned flawlessly, and all 5 of them were very accurate. One (a EW 300 WSM) was undoubtedly one of the most accurate factory rifles I have ever seen.

I am surprised that folks say the quality has slipped since then. Since I don't want another right now I will take their word for it.

What happened?

I don't know but have heard the same thing. I think my rifle was the first year model - can't recall exactly but remember I bought one shortly after I heard about them. It has been a joy to play with. My buddy's rifle was bought used and think it is an 'older' version as well. Someone tried to bed it but suffice to say, I re-did it. It shoots accubonds into little bitty bughole groups and Partitions into 0.75". The load is getting right at 2800 with 180's and a 22" barrel. It might work <G>

The first SC 70 I had was fabulous. It was an early production Extreme Weather. The finish was perfect, the trigger was perfect it was one of the most accurate productIon rifles I'd ever purchased. It was a 308 and I wanted a 7-08. Sold the 308 about a year later and ordered a 243 and 7-08 thinking I'd found Nirvana.

They came in and the differences were immediate. The finish was rougher (more gray) and neither cycled as smoothly as my original. They both had mushy triggers and were finicky in the accuracy department. I was truly disappointed and they both went down the road...

Fast forward to newer production -- some friends have purchased a few and accuracy is good. The triggers aren't as nice as my original, but better than the 243 and 7-08 I had. The finish still isn't as nice as it once was, on par with the second batch I had.

I think they're still a really nice rifle, but quality has slipped a little. For what it's worth, I've spent some time with one of the Portugal 70's and it shoots really well with about anything I try. Then again, most of my 270's have done that!

Laugh all you want, but everything I said is true..

Why would we trust anyone who has to drag his waders to stop his car. Hell, you were probably born in in a blizzard in a Willys Jeep.

You might want to read Otteson..

And I quote " A special fixture measures critical points along the length if the receiver casting. After a quick scan of the dial indicators it is slapped in a vice and straightened with a mallet and a steel bar. Workman become so.skilled that this "massaging" seldom needs to be repeated." Stuart Otteson on - The Bolt Action .page 137

So Rugers are built by skilled American workers? Nice. Makes me feel proud to own a few.

Using cheap, cost cutting manufacturing methods. Don't get me wrong, they are serviceable rifles built.to a price point and I have owned a few, but a FN Winchester they are not. And really I would rather own a remington 700 over a Ruger.
The other thing is Winchester aren't perfect either, but they are a higher quality gun than Ruger.

Depends on how one defines quality.

That book was also written in 1976 - there's a good chance how Ruger produces their rifle has changed a bit in the last 38 years.

I've owned Win/Rem/Ruger and honestly - Ruger's were always fit and finished better than the others. Accuracy was about the same for all (factory).

FWIW, I wasn't digging on you for the ruger hating. I was givin a fellow yooper a hard time...

Still love my rugers though..then again, there's only a couple guns I've ever owned that I didn't like...

They are still investment cast and as such will need the treatment described above. As far as fit and finish expectations vary, and Ruger IMO aren't fit nor finished well. In fact they have very little finishing period as the bolt raceways are as cast and rough as cob.

And you should like your Rugers. I like mine, I just am not under any illusion as to what they are.

Still LMAO!

Keep going, this is good stuff.

The roughest winny action is smoother than the smoothest ruger.

The M77 MkII stainless/boat paddle is a workhorse here in AK. I have plenty of hunting acquaintences (none are gun snobs, like around here) who are plenty happy with their Rugers.

I've been known to hunt my kids M77 .308 on occasion.

OP, choose whichever you want and you'll end up with a fantastic eastern whitetail rifle. That is what you are looking for right? No work will need to be done to either to get it to work spectacularly in that capacity. If made in the USA is important to you, then the Ruger is the way to go. Check the ergonomics of both to see how you like them. One may just feel better to you. Smoothness of an action never killed a deer. I'd rather be in the woods with a rough action rifle than on the keyboard while my smooth action rifle sat in the safe. BTW, neither have a rough action. Go work the bolts on a few and see for yourself.

I'm leaning toward the Hawkeye and thinking of getting either a 4x, 1.75-6 , or 2.5-8 Leupold. Would any of these scopes fit fine on the factory rings, or would I need to buy a new set? What scope do you run on it?

My pick for that rifle (and many others) would be the VX-3 2.5x8 32. Ruger rings will work just fine. May want to lap them though.

I think you meant 2.5-8x36. However, If I were going with a VX3, it would be the 3.5-10x40..

I completely agree, go 3.5-10x40!

Forget anything smaller.

Yep, x36mm sorry. The 3.5-10x40 is also a great choice. To me the choice between either the 2.5-8 or the 3.5-10 is dependent largely on where you typically hunt. Most of my rifles wear the 2.5-8 because I am rarely presented with a shot over 300 yards with the vast majority under 200 with a fair of amount of 50 yard or less shots. And I appreciate the lightness and compactness of that scope over the other. You would be well served by either. Also If you buy any new VX-3 Leupold is running a rebate now where you get a pretty sweet Leupold/Carhartt jacket.

I like my 1.75-6 but it is not the E model so I had to buy an extended front ring in order for it to fit.


2.5-8 or the 1.75-6 E model would be great

I've handled both of these rifles and shot the Ruger. Im buying the Ruger.
First off I don't like B&C stocks,not that the Ruger has a better quality stock but it feels better than the B&C to me.
Second the fit on some of the Winchesters absolutely sucks!
I'm gonna scope mine with a Leupold FXII 4X,i don't need any more scope than that for where I hunt and I prefer fixed over variable.

Good post. I also saw the rebate and almost bought a new VX3, just to get a Carhartt jacket

What do you mean by fit?

This, and I own several M70's (one EW in .338 WM) and a couple M77's� The FN made M70 EW is hands down my favorite� smooth, trouble free, reliable, and accurate.

[b][/b]

Delineate the ways in which it doesn't stack up if you don't mind.

Where the metal meets the plastic. Barrels to one side of the channel,tang not recessed in the stock far enough,magazine door not fitted right.

ON the M70 EW, I prefer the wing safety, the SS finish is matte where the Rugers are like a signal mirror, the action was VERY smooth from day 1 in the M70 EW, the Ruger's not so much, I like the M70 recoil lug (albeit smallish) vs. the Hawkeye (neither are as large as a Remmy 700), I prefer the knurling on the bolt knob of the M70 vs the smooth M77, my EW shoots tighter groups than my M77's, and I actually prefer the B&C stock profile, and it seems to soak up a lot of recoil that the wood stocks on my Rugers seem to amplify� I don't like the 26" bbl length on the EW (in 338WM), wish it were 22" instead, 24" at most� the B&C stock is heavy, in fact the whole gun in general is heavy, but so is the Hawkeye. MOA trigger sucks, sort of mushy� but I have a Timney in my future� the M7& triggers suck (to much overtravel, mushy and heavy break)�

Don't get me wrong, I love my Rugers, and I'm a big fan of the company� I just love my M70 EW more for the reasons I've stated above� I've got a couple of old early 80's Ruger M77 "rangers" that I will NEVER sell..

The new Ruger finish is matte if we're talking about the All Weather