Posting this to help my brother out, and kinda settle a bit of an argument. So don't crucify me too bad........LOL!!!


Basically he's looking for his kids first deer rifle. He's set on a .22-250 cause in his mind a hyper velocity lightweight premium bullet of 55-75gr is better than a reduced velocity .308 of say 110-125gr wherein they would have equal recoil.

I'm in the .308 camp myself simply cause of the far more vast versatility of the .308 once the kids grow up. Also, that a reduced recoil round will not be nearly as loud to the ears. Which to many young shooters (even with hearing protection) is just a big of a factor as actual recoil.

But, it did get me to wondering a bit. For deer sized game under 200yd, given the same recoil levels..........what is the better choice? Say a 62gr Barnes TSX @ 3500fps or a reduced load 110gr .308 @ 2600fps???

22-250.

By a mile...





Travis

.308. At some point he might want to shoot something other than deer size game at 200 yards.

Can we throw the 243 in the mix?

No. Everyone knows a .243 will not kill stuff.

I really like 308win, but in this case I'd go 22-250 with a good bullet.

Started out my son and nephew with a reduced load in a 308 (H4895 & 150gr Rem. CLKT bulk bullet at 2400) seemed to do just fine on deer and pigs.

They have since moved on to the 30-06 and the other still uses a 308 WCF.

SC

Seems we always want to talk about later down the road when kids grow up. Topic at hand now is kid wants to shoot deer. When said kid grows up and hairs over he can buy another gun if he wishes.

260, might as well throw it out there....

308

223 Montucky. You've the twist and the COAL,along with ergo's,balance and handling. It's an unequaled rugged/reliable platform,that'll last generations.

I'll always take a 22-250 over a 308 and a 223 over both.

Connecting dots is ALL about round count and FUN and I'm never not amazed at how hasty folks are,to forget that. Though of course...most folks don't shoot,though they certainly "think" they do.

Happiness is a 223 Montucky,good glass/mounts and 5 gallon buckets full of fodder. The Reupold 6x42 can't be whooped,for kids,given it's ease of acquisition and exceedingly generous eye-relief. Very easy to go M1 on it's ele and reach the 1000yd line easily.

Hint.

The 62X is no slouch,though Graf's has 75A-Max in stock currently.

Re-hint.

Thank me later.........

This is the route I went. Only I built and didn't get him a Montana.

But between the two, it's the 22-250. Hands down.



Travis

I've thought several times about playing with light bullets in the .308 at reduced loads, just as a curiosity...too many things to dabble with and not enough time.

I went .223 (AI'd for my kids). Left home this morning and they were laying it on thick with the "we want to shoot as soon as we get in this evening". Everyone thinks they want something bigger so they can use it when they get older....I'm older and shoot more .223's than everything else put together. No matter how old I get, the .223 never gets old.

Don't buy things for what you think you're "gonna" do - buy them for what you ARE doing.

Later if that changes, buy again for what you ARE doing.

Way too many 300 WM's get sold because "I'm gonna go out west someday for elk" and they never leave the woodlot well east of the Mississippi.

I'd go 22-250 over the 308 and let them have fun NOW.

I used the 70 gr speer on deer out of a swift and it kills like lightning..although I would still choose a 308 for the application. The boy can grow with a 308 I'm sure that is what you were thinking.

Isn't that the truth...

The older I get, the more I enjoy the smaller stuff for killing and shooting. I have two kids who went/are going through this and their pick is the 22-250.

There are choices that are better than your listed options. Either the .223 or the .243 make more sense for a youngster than the .22-250 or the .308. All four will work just fine, but I would rather see a kid hunting with a .223 than a .22-250. Likewise a full power .243 makes more sense to me than a reduced recoil .308. How old/big is the kid?

I'm 37 and the .223's and 22-250's are the first rifles I grab.




Travis

.223 gets a lot more rounds downrange than a .308 when I'm shootin. .22-250 offers no practical advantage over the .223 in deer-killin ability, especially at the cited 200 yds.

243
257 bob
250 savage
260

Each year, I am taking 4 or 5 teenage boys out deer hunting...including Seafire Jr...

each year, I am the one carrying the lightest caliber among us all....

at the same time, several of the boys, including my son.. I have to give them downloaded ammo so they can accurately shoot the caliber they chose...

but they each still think a downloaded 270 or 30/06 or even 30/30 is more 'cool' and 'macho' than a 243 or 260...

they really get insensed over a 223... but then that is the one they love to shoot, while "practicing" at the range...

although many have said the same thing, I think TEAL said it best...

That's right I just read that you turned 37. A good year for sure. A Happy Birthday to you!

.223

there's some truth to this in MS. you'll never be questioned about totin a .308, although there will be suggestions to step up to a .300 mag because it "hits harder" (you know, if you want the 120 lb doe to be "DRT"). but if you're caught totin a .223 or .243, youre gonna hear a variation of "bwa, are u some kind of a queer??"

Kinda funny that the same "undergunned philosophy" shows up when fellas talk 270Win vs 7Mag.....

I heard the .270 is a chick bike

The biggest blacktail I have taken while here in Oregon, I had the head mounted...guys see it and ask how much did it weigh on the hoof...about 235 to 240....

well fed suburban deer... courtesy of all the California transplant retirees, who can't feed the 'wildlife' enough.. muffins from Costco etc...

Then they ask what I shot it with... If I say 300 Win Mag, its amazing the nods of approval I get...

When I tell the truth about I shot it wandering thru my backyard last day of the season ( granted it was a wooded rural back yard).... I get frowns...

when I tell the truth and let them know it was a head shot with a 22 Mag, as that what was quickly available...I get these looks ranging from shocked to disgust...

took it after getting home an hour before, and put all my hunting gear away.. and hunting up in the mountains hadn't produced any results...wife told me there was a big buck out in the yard chasing some does...so I thought what the hell, its in a legal area to take it...

point being, no one thinks anything of it, if I say it was taken with a 300 Mag.. they get incensed when I say it was with a 22 Mag and a head shot at 50 yds...

people get funny over things like that...

Whatever you decide on cartridge, make sure the rifle fits the kids now. Worry about a full size set-up when they are full size.

I heard that a 270WSM is mullet wearing lesbo bike....

ha! it's fat too

I'm with the .223 or .243 crowd. Get him a 6mm and the village idiots will think its a cannon

If it were me, .223 hands down, followed by .243/6mm, then 7mm-08� before I'd even be thinking .308

I've used some 110s and factory 130's in the .308 and they are really destructive at full velocity. With reduced loads they start acting more like a pistol or 30M1 carbine bullet. Between the 2 I would go with the .22-250 and near full velocity loads. More chance of dropping the deer in it's tracks. The 223, 243, 260, & 7mm/08 are good choices too. Of these only the .223 would be noticeably quieter when wearing ear protection, which should be mandatory.

Happy belated birthday, Travis!!!

Thank you sirs.




Travis

I would do 22-250 and then when the kids grow-up they will make their own decision on calibers and cartridges. You never know the direction they will take. They may decide hunting is not their thing or like to chase birds and small game instead of deer.

My father started me with a 243 Winchester and as soon as I got old enough to buy my own rifle, I bought a 7mm Remington Magnum. I shot a pile of deer with it and thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I also started buying different rifles because I was also turning into a "rifle loony" as well. I have tried many different cartridges and now have come full circle. I don't like rifles that "kick". I prefer the smaller cartridges now. So in other words, the children may do the same. The 22-250 will serve them well and if the get magnumitis like many of us they will forget about it for awhile. Although one day in their distant future they may come back to the "wimpy" 22-250 and use it again with pleasure.

Putting together a rifle for wife and grandkids now and have elected to go with the 22-250. 8" twist of course, and will be shooting 75gr Amaxes or 80gr VLDs.

John

I vote 308. Though I hunted with a 220 Swift for many years. Took several WT's with it.

A 22 centerfire will, by default, teach them shot placement immediately.

To answer your question: 308 all the way.

The rifles are likely to be equally heavy to the child no matter the chambering. If they can handle it from the bench and not be scared of it, it'll be love at first kill for the kid. 308 Win.

125 nbt's loaded to 2600 in the 308, if he can't handle that recoil he is to young to hunt. Teach him how to shoot and dole the shells out miserly cause the 1 st thing after safety lessons is teaching "make the first shot count", good luck Magnum Man

Practice makes....nah, no need for that...

Well said Teal. I believe this is exactly what made the 7 mag a success.

I think more people are guilty of that than care to admit it. Self included...

Well you can count my Dad and brother in that groups as well. Thought I was nuts buying a 6mm instead. They don't any longer.

I have killed deer with the 22-250 and deer bullets. 60-64-70gr and with the 308. Both kill deer very dead. I'll be packing the 308 this year. with the 22-250 loaded with 64gr Winchester power Points as a back up.

Eddy Bo (former poster here that passed away) built my hunting partners 9 year old an 8 twist 22-250 a month before he passed. My hunting partner and his son killed 11 deer with it using 55 grain hornady soft points. 10 never took a step. 1 took one right in the guts, by the 9year old. It ran 40 yards laid down and died in less than five minutes. I helped clean all of them and I'd take that 22-250 and never look back. Eddy Bo built me a 223 AI at the same time and if he hadn't my toddler would be shooting a 22-250 his first several years. No flies on the 308 as I've killed a pile of deer with a couple, but there just deer

That's what I bought my first "new" rifle (also a 7mag) for instead of a used Browning Stainless Stalker .308 I had been eying for some time. It was a new Savage package gun with scope instead of used A-Bolt without a scope for the same price. Like everything, it cost more in the end. Cause the cheap POS scope barely lasted the first season, and went through another scope after that Before finally settlingnon the 1st gen Aetec it wears now.

I shot a .308 as a kid and I loved it. I have never shot reduced loads in one but I would imagine that it would word very well.

My kids started shooting a 22lr and progressed to the 30-06 (they've stayed away from the magnums). I let them pick what caliber they want to shoot.

Point being, if you have access to a 22-250 or 308 or 223 let them shoot it and decide what they are most comfortable shooting.

Hah. You're still a kid.


My favorite is my .257 Roberts. Recoil is minimal but 75g V-MAX work great for p-dogs, coyotes, 100TTSX and 110g AB for antelope, etc. and I load 120g A-Frames during combined deer/elk season. (Haven't pulled the trigger on game with that load but don't doubt it will work.) All the girls love to shoot it and Daughter #1 will be using it for WY antelope come October.

These days I would probably go the .260 route instead.

I've had/have every chambering cited and had 'em all out on the same day,to let others extrapolate,more than a schit load of times. Of course,have had lotsa others out at the same time too. A jaunt often includes dozens of platforms(understatement).

There is NOT a single kid on the Planet,who's going to walk past a Montucky 223,to get to anything else thus far mentioned(Krunchentickers do appeal,but have yet to be cited,yet pale to the Montucky). A lopped/chopped(LOP shortened and barrel nipped to 20") Sporter 77/22 Hornet/K-Hornet is a perpetual Crowd Pleaser,but the Montucky STEALS the Show. Hint.

Again,it's ALL about round count and the "luck" that trigger time reaps,like NO other ingredient in the Terminal Equation. Simply THE dumbest pfhuqqing schit I've ever heard,to slip a kid schit riggin' and make them suffer same as some "trick" to arrange "proficiency". It ain't pfhuqqing happening.

Let a kid slam some 600yd clay birds with same and a Deer Tag is punched,before the shooting even starts.

Hint...................

I suggest the 243 as a first rifle.

Of the two cartridges in the opening of the thread, I would take a 1-8" fast twist .22-250 over the .308 any day for deer.

Why? I don't like recoil anymore.

You're a clever guy, for a 'Yankee'......grin

totally depends on the kid, how he or she shoots and how good they are with what size rounds period.

I've never seen anyone shoot better with more recoil.

This

I'd go .308 and use reduced or managed recoil ammunition which should give recoil somewhere between standard .243 and .260...or just get a .243 in the first place. A good recoil pad and proper fit of the rifle obviously make a huge difference in felt recoil of any caliber.

22-250 all the way.
not that a 308 wouldn't work,but a 62 tsx at 3500 will work better .

Better than what? Any 308 load? Certain 308 loads? Work better for a kid?

Ive shot a few with a 308 and never felt "under"gunned. Ive shot a few with a 22-250 also. Most factory 22-250's are still 1:14 arent they? The 62tsx is probably not going to work in most guns the OP would buy anyway so the case would have to be made for the 53gr.

Also, no one asked if the OP handloads... If not, it throws the ball back in the 308's court.
I gave my kids 243's and wouldnt change a thing except had them rebarreled to 1:8 from the start.

most of em are twisted slow, and that's something the OP should consider. 'course, a lot more .223's are twisted 8 or 9 from the factory ...

I started my boy on a 243 savage, then bought a 308 barrel when he was ready for more.

I've recently settled on the 7-08 as just the ticket, so I have 243, 7-08 and 308 barrels for that rifle.

Hard to go wrong that way.

308 hands down. I've hunted with both.

Of the two, 22-250 would be my recommendation. I went a different route and just ordered a Ruger American 223 to start my oldest on for deer. By the time he's ready to graduate to something a little bigger the second boy should be ready to starting using the 223.

I've dealt with the same dilemma, but if you search 22-250 and whitetail you'll find plenty of info on it's ability. I purchased the 22-250 for my sons first "deer" rifle. Not sure that after I watch him with it this year I might not start carrying one in the woods myself. Of course center-fire .22 cal is legal to take whitetail in our area!

Of the two choices listed by the OP I'd go 22-250 for a young shooter. I've got a Ruger compact 223 in my safe for my nephew when he's ready. I haven't killed a deer with my 22-250 but I have with my 220 Swift. 175yds and she didn't take a step. These small southern whitetails aren't armor plated.

I rarely ever take anything larger than 25 caliber when I go after deer.

A .22-250 is not legal for big game in Colorado where I live and do most of my hunting, the .308 Win wins by a mile when it comes to usefulness.

I have a Ruger Compact in .223 and it is quite a handy rig. A couple of years ago I filled both my buck tags on opening day but still had a doe tag left. With my high batting average I figured I would just run my yote/trap line with my lil gun. I happened to get three yotes that day and punch my doe tag. I was running factory Federal fodder with 62 gr (I think) bonded bear claw slugs. Dropped that doe faster than my '06 did with 150 gr hand loads. Needless to say I take that little runty .223 out more often. I'd love to try a heavier 75 Gr A-max but I'm not sure I have the spin for it in the Ruger.

Well with the OP talking about 62 grain TSX's I'd suspect he's looking at an aftermarket barrel and reloading so why wouldn't you go .250 Savage and push a 80-100 grain .25 cal projectile in the 28-3000fps neighborhood?
Seems like a dandy deer cartridge and just a little more rifle loony rewards than the .22-250,or .308.

[u][/u]You didn't mention age or shooting skill level, but is a young new hunter going to have the steadiness, patience and accuracy to place shots as precisely as a 22 centerfire needs? (usually when I hear people advocating small calibers for deer they say its about shot placement - not caliber)
Personally, my minimum cartridge for deer is the 250 savage. The 6 mms are probably as good a starting point.
If he can't handle a 243/6mm/250/257 class standard load maybe its too soon to be hunting medium/large game (which I'm sure the father doesn't want to hear!). If it has to be a 308, download to 243 or 260 equivalent.
By the way, what happened to the good old 30-30 as a first deer rifle?

I'm 74...so what I'll say won't jive with many! I shoot BOTH and BOTH will kill the pizz outa the largest buck that ever trod the earth out to 600 yards! I put a 1-7 ROT barrel on my Rem 700 action and I use the Sierra 90 gr. .224 with 35.5 grs. H4350. This fast twist will also shoot the lighter bullets well and after many rounds fired I've yet to have any blow up enroute to the target and accuracy is excellent! In the .308 Win I use the 150 gr. Nosler AccuBond with 46.5 grs. Varget. Both are totally deadly if put in the right place!

(.224 + .308)/2 = .266 (.264, close enough) aka 260 Rem. It's what all the cool kids want these days.

+1 on the .30-30.

OK. I will not settle anything here any better than anyone else has. My .308 is a deer killing machine. Period and amen.

I'm getting to be an old fart, got a pacemaker so blood thinners are a must. Even my 20 ga. and .308 mark up my shoulder pretty good. They don't hurt, they just bruise me and takes some time to go away.

This dove opener, I used a Model 42 in .410 to good success.

I'm too old to worry about macho.

I confess that I recently dumped my .22-250 over the 1:12 twist. My question is, how tight does the twist need to be to hang with the really heavy .224 bullets. If anyone sells tight twist factory .22-250s, I have missed them. Several makers have seen the light as to .223s. I don't want to use another mistake next time. (Not sure how many of those are left).

Bottom line. What .22-250 OR just be happy with a tight .223. I do have a heck of a fine .243-just to help your recommendation.

jack

One day we'll realize all the chatter solves two things; "not much" and "very little".

yeah, ya always read this sort of argument on the internet...

and then I read something here locally about the poachers, since it is deer season locally....

once it gets dark, poachers seem to kill deer with just about anything that goes bang...maybe that is why 22 LR is so hard to find nowadays...

poachers just seem to know you have to get close enough... hmmmm... maybe they are on to something... that and shot placement....does that make poachers better hunters????