At 40 below what kind of problems show up with remington actions and various brands of triggers? I have a couple of old remington triggers I have not swapped out yet and I am looking at rifle basix. Do y'all have any odd feeding problems? What about CRF Rugers at 40 below?

Aren't you supposed to pull apart the bolt and degrease everything super dry?

None with mine, First of all none are ever lubed with wet stuff. I use EEzox or Corrosion X under ALL weather conditions.

Second, at 40 below they are in the rack and I'm in the sauce.....

What las said.

I had one freeze up on me on time..fired when safety was taken off. This is the problem with the rem trigger.. If you use a rem. make sure all the grease and oil is removed from the trigger as it turns hard as a rock in the cold and trigger parts don't move. I much prefer old model 70s for big game hunting..never had a problem with my older Sakos or mausers either.. I don't use rugers much any more but have an all weather 223 I used to use for predator calling, never had any issues with it. Another good trigger design. Did a Dayton tarsier kit in it..

I had the firing pin on a Rem 700 freeze up at a lot warmer temp than that. Around plus 22f if I recall correctly. It was a rifle that I had bought, from a friend, and I asked him about cleaning the bolt and he told me he cleaned it every time he cleaned the rifle. Turns out, he knew nothing about taking the bolt apart and just squirted oil everywhere and wiped it off. Inside was full of oil and grime. It did fire on the second try and I killed the deer. miles

Like LAS, I use a bit of Corrosion X only.....no lubes.....-40 is getting dangerous....stay home.

I wipe all oil off of the inside of the bolt before season.

I use CRC Brake Cleaner to flush trigger mechanisms and spray a very light coat of Eezox on bolt lugs.

The only box triggers I have now are in Sako rifles, the remainder are variations of open Mauser triggers. On the box triggers, I make it a habit to clean and flush out the triggers with Ronson lighter fluid. Once it evaporates, is leaves a light lubrication that does not freeze up. I'd most definitely remove any greasy lube from the bolt and firing pin, and if I was going in temps as cold as you describe, I may do the same as the box trigger, and hose everything down with the lighter fluid.

-40, stay by the fire, that's dangerous!-Muddy-

On review, I was maybe a little flippant. I have a Remington 700, and a 725 with original (tweaked) triggers. Two Ruger 77s with original (tweaked) triggers. One M98 with Timney. All run 2.5-3.0 trigger pull.

I use the 725, one 77, and the M98 in cold weather down to maybe 15 below. After that, I stay home.

The rest stands.

Truth is - ain't no real dif between maybe 25 degrees and anything colder if one is working with wet lubes. As said before, I use dry-to-touch stuff. It doesn't freeze, thicken, nor collect crud.

If one is not confident of complete hand disassembly/cleaning of mechanisms, either soak it in one of the other things mentioned, or have a gunsmith or knowledgeble person do a complete dis-assembly/cleaning/dry lube. All of my rifles get done every 3 or 4 years if used. Just did the 725 after last having done it 4 years back-with regular use since - it was cruddy inside the trigger mechanism, and a bit inside the bolt. Replaced the spongy original (50 year old?) striker spring with an over-strength Wolff. Much better!

Condensation moisture collected in the innards from in/out shelter or from blowing snow travel is of concern. Try not to subject the rifle to above/below freezing temperature changes - leave the rifle outside once outside, or wrap it in insulation before bringing them inside to slowly warm and prevent condensation which may later freeze or rust.

I got out of the truck one morning in Alberta and the truck thermometer said -30 degrees.It warmed all the way up to -10 that day,and I killed a buck in the last minutes of daylight....was told it was -25 at that time.

I had degreased the rifle, wiped down the firing pin assembly and ran it dry. It was a well worn pre 64 action that was slicker than snot anyway,and it worked fine when it had to.

Being out hunting in temps of -30 is insane....I won't do that again anytime soon.But everyone should do it once.

Why?

I would personally not go outside to 'recreate' if it's -20F or colder. Throw in a little breeze and look out!

Gummed up actions and triggers will create problems way before -40..

And yeah, I'm not going very far away from a reliable heat source at those temps.

For the same reasons people climb ice chutes(sp?) and jump out of planes.

In case you haven't noticed it's pretty gawd damned boring out there and you have to do somethinginvolving some risk or you shrivel up like a prune.

There ain't nothing I need to do in -40, -20 for that matter.

I was up to my nuts one New Year's day steelhead fishing and the temp was a balmy 0 degrees. I'll never wade fish in 0 degree weather again.

Man you said a mouthful Bob. My first foray to Sask saw temps -20F plus. One day it warmed up to -26F at midday. Coming from NJ, it was quite the shocker. Of course, to add to the "experience" the wind was blowing hard enough that the snow appeared to be falling sideways. Got off the plane in Newark International with a t-shirt and felt comfy.........
The beauty of Black-T is that you run the rifle dry, no lube necessary anywhere. So long as the trigger is flushed, just in case of any residual lubes/dirt/debris, it's full steam ahead.

For the same hammer to the thumb reason. It feels so good when one stops!

BTDT too on the Salmon River in upper NYS. Pchuck that schitt...

Scott/ RD: That -25 to -30 was a personal record for me but a lot of that central Canada hunting involves temps at 0 to 10 below. I've killed other bucks down to -10 up there.

But that -30 stuff is a very different cold that eats at you very quickly. It's dangerous. When it warmed to 10 below during the day, bright and sunny, it was almost pleasant and I left the stand to kick around the bush a bit without a problem.

But as the sun began to set the air was dead still and you could feel the temps plummet. That buck ( my best whitetail from Canada), waited until the last light to cross that field and did it on the run. I killed him at about 80 yards.

I am glad i did it, but would not want to do it again...but hey, we go there to hunt.It gets cold...what are you supposed to do? Stay indoors? You can't kill one that way!

If I was unwilling to hunt in -20 and colder, there are years I would hardly get out at all...

I think the coldest temp I've ever killed a critter in 9 years of hunting in Alaska was about 32. Not counting wuffs.

Have shot quite a few critters well South of zero. Also ran a series of tests with different actions several years ago. Let them get below zero and spritzed them with water, threw snow on warm actions and set them out in the cold, etc.

No action, enclosed or not proved any better than the others and all froze at least several times. That included a pre-64 70, 700, Seven, A-Bort, 77, and several others.

All had been cleaned with lighter fluid and lubed with Dri-Slide.

Not sure I agree with completely degreasing a rifle before hunting with it for several reasons. While dry lube is a great invention and works great in cold weather as a replacement for a good quality gun oil, it doesn't provide any real protection for moisture and rust on metal parts. Even in VERY cold weather, metal parts will eventually thaw out and moisture is the first thing to land on those metal parts and rust will follow very quickly. Degreasing with a re-oiling after the hunt would be a better solution, IMHO.

One anecdote of several I have- A buddy of mine and I were hunting deer in Eastern Oregon one year. He had his new-to-him Pre 64 Model 70 30-06 and had a chance at a good deer. Pulled the trigger and nothing happened. Tried recocking and pulled the trigger and nothing happened. When he got back to camp and told me the story, I started to investigate and the firing pin never had seemed to drop, so I opened up his bolt and checked it out. Had to show him how to do it as he had never learned how to remove the firing pin on a Win 70.

The firing pin and spring were so rusted, the firing pin couldn't move when released. Took it apart and cleaned everything up and oiled it up and it worked great after that and for many years after until he sold the rifle to a brother in law. A small amount of good gun oil would have prevented that occurence, dry lube wouldn't have. That year it just happens it was close to 0 degrees several mornings, warming to a balmy 50 during the days. Just a few miles south of there, at Seneca springs, if I remember correctly, we held the record for coldest recorded spot in the lower 48 for many years- something like -46F. I hunted there a few years and was glad to find a "warmer" place to hunt.

Bob

Sheister- you are wrong. U didn't specify what the "dry-lube" was, either.

Eezox and Corrosion-X both provide both lubrication and protection from rust when applied properly and allowed to dry. I haven't used anything else in over 20 years, and have found both products to be superior to dry/degreased only, dry graphite, Rem-oil, or any other such wet product.

Of course disassembly, wipedown, re-lubing is the best course- but can you do it nightly on a hunting trip? It absolutely should be done after any trip in rough weather.

And as I said (during the season/trip)- either leave the gun outside where it won't condense up, or if bringing it into a warm cabin, wrap it up in some sort of insulation so it warms slowly without creating condensation.

If hunting in a rain, absolutely do anything you can to dry the innards out, especially if freezing temps are to be encountered later. I've been known to lay the bolt out on a WARM surface- like the edge of a stove, for several hours or overnight to drive out any moisture before going out the next day.

There is no one magic solution- just depends on what's going on.

I have done some impromptu predator hunting on several occasions when the temps were -40 or so. I don�t normally go to far from the truck when its much colder than that but have on occasion. You can�t control the temp or when you see a nice fox o coyote trotting along. I always cleaned everything with break parts cleaner and then put a very light dusting of lube with a paint brush.

Because...


I've been deer hunting in -35F a couple (actually, several) times.. Buds in the camp went further north and the temp up there at the time was close to -45F.. Everything went fine - but we all used M70s at the time.. Well, a couple of older men carried them sweet 742s and they, naturally, ended up being single-shot rifles until they thawed out..

For the pos Rem trigger - degreasing/de-oiling/whatever may/may not work.. Why, you ask? Because moving a rifle from one temp extreme to another can/will cause condensation (in many states) to build up inside that pos trigger and cause malfunctions.. Extreme hunting conditions are NOT the place for any enclosed trigger, period..

JMVHO... FWIW..

42* below when I rolled out on this morning, four or so years ago. If you dress for it, stay moving, and there's little or no wind, it's very doable...and productive.

Like Bob said earlier, I degrease my bolt, and trigger with lighter fluid and run it dry. The only mechanical problems I've ever had in extreme cold is missfires with small rifle primers...

Pat, no wind is crucial!

As you're well aware, -40F ambient is way easier than -40F windchill. Hardest part has got to be pacing ones self in order not to start sweating.


Other than blowing the heat off of a engine on a block heater, thank God windchill doesn't affect mechanical devices.

I would be more worried about a scope breaking in really cold temps than anything. Cold temps are hard on things.

Those are very unlucky critters that the POS trigger worked. ...... ....

Lee, ok we all like to joke around here with each other, but if I may, I have a serious question. With any enclosed trigger, if you ran a lite amount of Eezox, would that help with any condensation (I would think it would and it's "rated" to -95F) ?
If it's condensation, would leaving the rifle in a vehicle help after the degreasing/cleaning as Pat suggested doing with Zippo ? If there is any merit to what I'm thinking, about the only harm oiling could/would do would act as a attractant (helping dirt/dust) stick to parts which I could see. As I said earlier, I joke around with you and BobinNH about the CRF thing, but make NO mistake, I value and respect both your opinions.

Regards,

Roy

PS: I have three BG hunting rigs that have been Black-T finished and require no lube whatsoever. Birdsong, disassembles trigger mechanisms and coats all internal parts (screws, pins, springs...everything !!!). All parts of the firing pin mechanism are disassembled and coated as well. Black-T is a self lubricating finish). The soldiers from the 10th Mountain Div use rifles with Walter's coating and have for years.

Because it gives you a working frame of reference for these off-season discussions.

Pat,
Was that a two-fer shot or you just drug them together?

I leave my rifle outside on the porch when hunting in those sort of conditions to prevent moisture issues.

Perzakly...

RD: The times I have seen enclosed triggers "quit", it was not from extreme cold....it was from just enough cold that snow and water got down into the trigger, must have melted from temps or body heat (hands carrying rifle near body? I don't know) and then temps dropped just enough after the snowstorm to cause everything to ice up and freeze. Two Remingtons quit that afternoon/evening.Neither would fire.

But it was not super cold....maybe the low 20's(?)

The other times were caused by accumulated red Wyoming dust and grit getting down into the trigger,likely mixing with a bit of lubricant,and gumming things up...that dust out west gets into everything.

Anymore ,like Pat, I mostly run things pretty dry;but I do wipe down firing pin spring,external parts, etc with a very LIGHT application of Ballistol, wiped on with a rag and not poured into parts. This seems to work well. I also make sure the inside of the bolt body is "clean".

Likely Lee sees more of this than any of us, since he's a gunsmith. I just mention what I have bumped into.

My friend had a CRF freeze shut, meaning you couldn't even open the bolt. Guess you could have fired it single shot to preserve to superior reputation of CRF designs though. We beat on the bolt handle pretty hard and it wouldn't budge till we got the rifle back inside and it warmed up .

I suppose you can get anything frozen enough that it doesn't work.

What kind of rifle was it?

Although I don't hunt in the super cold conditions mentioned in the thread, a 'lube' (actually more of a rust preventative) that I recently 'rediscovered' is Beeman MP5 oil. I had a bottle of it I bought over 20 years just laying around and decided to give it a try.

It is super thin and non gumming and penetrates then dries. I use it very sparingly on firing pins after a complete cleaning and degreasing with brake cleaner. The innanet says birchwood Casey barricade is the same stuff. Since I have never used barricade, I wouldn't know.

MP5

barricade

it was an old Finnbear with that long guide on the right side of the bolt body. No sure what the purpose of that was, but that was what cause it to freeze shut.

I think in general people over lube their guns. I use a small dab of grease on the locking lugs and on the cooking piece and that's it. I will blow off with compressed air and and wipe down with Rem oil if it gets soaking wet. Never had a gun not function doing it this way.

RD, that is not a CRF action on that rifle.

Exactly. I work outside year round. A couple years ago we decided 'it's too cold to work', so I pulled my kid out of school and we filled a mule deer tag that day. Took all day, but we got it done. -46C. Good memories for the both of us.

I prefer M70s that have been worked over, but in my experience most well cared for rifles will work fine, in most conditions. We've had rifles freeze solid over the years, but in all cases the user was carrying chambered... One shot and the action functions fine. Obviously a trigger freezing is a whole other matter...

Now that we know what works, and what doesn't, has the OP?

If you're subsistence hunting on your SHTF property, you'd better be laid in before it gets -40..

Any rifle I take to Canada gets this same treatment.

Yes Bwalker is right.

I stand corrected. However don't most/all CRF's have that full length guide/extractor ? That is what froze shut. It wasn't the "sako type" hook extractor that froze. IMO, it is that long guide that was the magnet for ice/moisture that rendered the action inoperable. Actually you could see the ice in there. The only CRF actions that I know of that don't have that are the Ed Brown 704 and the McMillan CRF. Maybe they were onto something.

None will show up with mine. At 40 below, they'll be in the house with me.

RD: I think we got off topic as I don't recall mentioning CRF vs PF as an issue. I was talking about the trigger on a Rem 700;actually what I saw with the two rifles was a trigger that would not work on one ( frozen), and a safety mortise that clogged with snow on the other.

Once the guy cleared the clog in the mortice as best he could by flashlight in the woods;he finally got the safety to move forward, but the trigger was also frozen up and would not work.

I don't think this is a CRF vs PF issue so much as it is that certain parts of a rifle, or action style, may be somewhat more vulnerable to gathering debris, moisture,snow, ice accumulation, etc and not operating, than another.

At some point I guess anything can get so bound up it won't work(I know how to do it with a pre 64 M70, or what will make it "not work");and I have hunted little Remington carbines up north in lots of snow without incident...but it was after I saw the snafu cited above, and was careful to keep crap out of the action area best I could.

All mine went "bang!" when I wanted them to.

What happened with that Sako I don't know but I think you are onto the reason.

Coldest I ever hunted was -20 and I shot a doe and my firing pin on my Marlin 336 broke! Luckily I didn't need a second shot.

If a rifle freezes, does it matter what type of extractor or trigger or firing pin assembly or 600 trick moves it had / That's the point I was trying to make, but I understand why you would think that's where I was heading. In actuality, in this case, my point was that any rifle can freeze rendering inoperable and the topic here is how to prepare a rifle for extreme conditions. You and I could walk hand and hand in utopia if a 700 had the old style mod 70 trigger............... (and a timed safety and a repined, reground trigger and new mag box and a new follower and a rebuilt bolt release and a new polished Williams extractor........... )

I was the "third man" that evening. The only rifle that would go bang was my pre war M70 with that simple old trigger.The rifle was just as snow clogged and frozen as the others but it still worked.



That said I think the bottom line with all this is if hunting extreme cold, make sure the rifle is "clean" inside and out,free of old oil and debris,try to keep it that way (not always possible),and run it dry except for a very thin application of lube that you trust to provide protection and not congeal at low temps.

Try to keep the thing free of snow and moisture that might turn to ice at the wrong time. This just might avoid little snafus.

Bob, two of my rifles have the Black-T coatings throughout,which I stated requires NO lubricant at all and a third rifle, an all stainless 700 has a 40x trigger Black-T throughout. I bought that rifle from Bobby Hart, a 30 Super (30-8mmMag) and I bought the 40X trigger from Bobby and sent it to Birdsong for disassembly and coating before having it installed by Hart on the finished rifle, To my knowledge, the only part of a SS 700 that isn't SS is the bolt nose which is coated with some sort of black coating on the nose itself. My other hunting rigs are fully Black-T'ed such as my Remington Custom Shop 700 African Plains Rifle in 300 Win Mag and my Husqvarna 1900 action with a Hart barrel bedded McMillan stocked 06.









Willams bottom metal that I had MP-3 finished





[img]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r74/RDFinn/Husky06Custom.jpg[/img]

One thing, I think, yet unmentioned that makes this care easier and, thus, more likely to get done is a bolt that's easy and tool free to remove and disassemble.

If there is a simpler bolt to disassemble that the Husqvarna 1900, I haven't seen it. Remove bolt from action, turn shroud clockwise with your hand 180 degrees and the bolt shroud/firing pin assembly slides out. To reassemble, insert firing pin/shroud assembly into bolt body and turn shroud 180 degrees clockwise and you're done. To tools what so ever needed.

I've only played with earlier Husqvarnas, but I'm not surprised that their last action was, too, very well designed and executed.

Lube and condensation are two different things. Wet lube at cold temps, or thru evaporation get thick, hence my dry lube thing. Wet lubes collect crud at all temps above freezing, and maybe somewhat below.

Dry to touch lubes do neither.

Condensation/moisture freezing up in interior parts doesn't care what kind of lube you use.

In my experience - though the lube or lack of it is a big factor- another big issue is specific design. I've had sticky trigger parts on various brands of bolt rifles in the cold. A couple of designs which haven't given me trouble, even in very deep cold: -30� to -40� F, have been the Ruger #1 and Mini actions.

I had to make a few turns on a M760 Winchester but that simple feature made it possible to dangle the firing pin, by my cold finger tips, in the gas tank of one of our machines in order to free it up so that we could dispatch a big bull.

What's more fun is -35F and wind chills at -60-65F..

BTDT.. Not gonna do it again..

A Sunday morning last December was painfully cold(wind). It was in the -60F range w/windchill, just completely brutal out in the breeze.
Probably the coldest day I have ever worked. 5-15 minutes outside and back in the pickup, repeat..


Come home and wife is always like, "Damn your face is red!"


If someone has a facemask that you can wear without fogging up (sun)glasses please let me know.

Try ski goggles. More coverage and better seal.

Gotta read through this again...

Why? Is it that hard to learn the first time through it?

Get one designed for runners that has a mesh opening for the breathing hole. That helps somewhat.

Shot one of my best muleys in SE Montana around Thanksgiving in 1985.
-55` windchill according to a radio station in Gillette WY. Camping was interesting that year. Had cleaned out the trigger and firing pin with Coleman fuel and ran them dry in a tang Ruger M77.
A friend couldn't get his M77 to fire at a 5pt elk at Gardiner MT at -10`, his firing pin was gummed up with whatever the factory had in there. Did the Coleman thing again and all was good.

It's been years since I hunted, or worked, in weather like that. But when I was a kid, we fed cows in the winter regardless of the temperature. Only a dangerous blizzard (if you've been in one, you know what I mean) would keep my dad from his cows, and it had to be a bad one. I always carried a rifle or shotgun with, and had no trouble. But the open hammer lever guns I used, as well as a 99 Savage, didn't have those pesky enclosed triggers. I have them in bolt guns now, and even in lesser weather, use the lighter fluid flush once or twice a year. It seems to clean dust out well, and not gum up the works. I do the same to the disassembled bolt.

I used to go out in a snowmobile looking for coyotes. In cold weather, went with a friend for safety. Those old rifles worked well, but so did my friends Remington 721 .270. I went bird hunting one day when it was -32 F. Stayed in the coulees out of the wind. When a pheasant got up out of a clump of brush that was covered in snow, I about had a heart attack, but the 870 went bang...behind the darn rooster!

One cold morning, I went to do the barn chores. Square bale stack was covered in snow from the night before, and about -10 F. As I got about 5 feet from the haystack it exploded, and I jumped. A rooster pheasant had bedded down in the lee of the stack where we were taking bales. He was completely covered in snow, probably warm as could be, and didn't flush till I was close. He flew about 18 inches from the top of my head! That is one of my most vivid memories of those days, but when you live on a farm/ranch and work in the weather, you see lots that you don't with a town job .

I also wore glasses, and that fogging thing can be a pain. While skiing in Bozeman I saw an ad on a billboard for prescription ski goggles. Sent my prescription and got a pair. They were wonderful in the wind when it was cold....you had to work to get them to fog, and they would clear if you turned sideways to the wind.

Howa or Weatherby Vanguard disassemble the same exact way. They are a copy of the early 2 lug Sako designs .

Only issue I had was a rifle that got a lot of moisture in it while clearing a path through willows for horses. The next morning the temps were ~15deg (balmy compared to others here). I loaded a round closed the bolt to head out for opening morning. Had a feeling that something was not right. Looked at it and realized the bolt was not cocked. About a minute over my small stove and all was well. Poor job by me of preparing equipment before hand was the cause. Will ensure it is dry in the future.

Went on an Elk Hunt in Montana in 1988. I was packing a Rem 700 FS chambered in 7rem mag. I took the gun apart before I left home and cleaned the trigger and left it dry and then sprayed the action with BoeShield. Everyone in camp took their rifles back to their rooms after the days hunt and then we loaded up in a suburban every morning to different spots. The third day at lunch I was unloading my rifle(ADL) and the bolt felt funny,unloaded everything and the firing pin would not strike. I took the bolt apart and there was rust everywhere. Outside temperature varied from 0-10 degrees and it snowing and icing the whole week. I put the firng pin assembly in a coffee can full of gasoline and wiped it off and killed a buck the next morning .

Learned a big lesson about condensation and its damage.

Where are you headed to expect -40?

What advantages, if any, to using lighter fluid vs. brake cleaner?

Lighter fluid supposedly evaporates and leaves a wee bit of lube behind that does not collect dust.

Brake cleaner may very well do exactly the same.

If it ever gets cold enough I may test it this winter and see what happens.

The whole enclosed trigger issue I consider total bullschit. Any trigger can be made to freeze and I found little difference in the difficulties between enclosed and open.

I have had this gun out in -20�to -30� many times. I have good snow camo, and love it when I can see nothing but white, even the trees from top to bottom.

I have brake cleaner and lighter fluid on hand all the time, but kerosene works better than either as far as leaving a light, non troublesome coat of lube behind.

As for enclosed triggers, you gotta keep em dry. I think a model 70 trigger may be best in the worst conditions. Sometimes less is more.

This is the reason I like field serviceable rifles and rifles like A-borts with over engineered bolts and triggers make me wanna blow groceries. Field strippable bolts are a necessity.

Some don't hunt in such conditions, so they don't get it.....

I remember seeing all those barreled actions out on your deck. Did you do a full write-up regarding that?

We should make an investigative road trip to 1ak's place....if it ever gets cold enough.

Whatever the problem for bolts, safeties or triggers in cold weather.....lighter fluid (Naptha) is the answer.

Does Coleman white gas for lanterns work well?

Shot a deer way up North one year and it just stood there! As I approached and the deer didn't run off I could see the deer had died apon bullet impact yet remained standing as it had frozen in its tracks.

I didn't need anything for the trigger or bolt because I was hunting a tikka T3 and they are good for -120 degrees. It also comes with a field stripable bolt though I doubt you'd ever need to use the feature other than cleaning the rifle at home.

The Tikka T3 is like the Glock of rifles. They are known to always fire under the most adverse of conditions!

Shod

Sure shodd. The red icicle hanging out the other side of the deer is what anchored him there

I had a couple dozen rifles factory and custom at once out on the deck a few years ago and tested them all sorts of ways in reasonably cold weather... Spray-misting actions with water at below zero for example and every other way I could think of.

Every rifle that got frank water on a cold action froze, with the exception of the enclosed triggers... Water running inside froze up all of them. I came away from it with the idea it made absolutely no difference what the design was named, they all froze under the right test conditions.

All had been flushed with lighter fluid and allowed to dry.

I did not do a full write-up because it did not really show a big difference and I had expected the enclosed triggers to actually be better. Yeah, I got lazy!

Well, we could probably use beer as the test liquid up there...

I could definitely see running water seizing them up in subzero temps.

Luckily, that is a non-issue. Keep snow out of the barrel, the trigger dry, and the firing pin from being gummed up, and you can generally hunt in temps colder than most care to.

Kerosene works very good if you haven't tried it.....

I think 20-30F above zero with rain/snow mix would be tougher on a rifle's 'function' than -20F.

Yes, for sure Sam. 25 above with a high-humidity wind feels a lot worse for hunting also. I'd much rather -10 with a nice sunny clear day, with but the lightest wind.

I would have agreed before trying it...

Ice at higher temps is much softer and the mechanisms just squash it or knock it out of the way. That is my guess at explanation anyway. It may just be that it takes enough longer for water to freeze that it mostly runs through by then?

I never understood how a completely exposed trigger mechanism such as the ones used on the pre-64 and Classic 70's could somehow ward off dirt, dust, debris, ice, snow etc. Logically, it would seem that an enclosed trigger would be harder to clean (in the field) and take longer for foreign matter to get into places that would make an action (trigger) stop working. I'm not calling "total bullschitt", just saying it does logically make sense to me.

They don't shun dirt. But they are easy to see/clean. If debris does somehow get stuck, it is easier to see and get out.

The Model 70 trgger and bolt are very user friendly.

That said, I hunt with mostly enclosed triggers

Much of our November hunting was high winds, temps in the upper teens, with light to moderate snow.

I hate hunting in the wind.....

There is less place in a Mod70 trigger for ice, snow to get stuck on (i.e. it can't get as easy of a grip to start with, it runs off) versus a Remington which has plenty of crevices for a little snow to get started.

Overall, I think that the reason a Remington trigger gets frozen up more quickly in actual use is due to the opening for the safety in the stock--it allows snow to drip down into the action, while a Winny has no such opening in the first place.

Looks like a pretty good sized access hole by the bolt stop, no......?

Or down the slot under the bolt... and straight into the trigger.

Uh, that might be a good explanation if it were even close to true.

I was referring to the fact that (liquid)H20 turns into ice when it freezes. Or slush.
Below zero and we rarely have icy weather around here. Cold(dry) snowflakes are easy to handle, they don't stick or melt.

Worst is when it's warm enough for rain and cools off and turns into ice and snow and then it's -10F. That will freeze all kinds of chit up, major league chit storm!



Can't imagine you have any weather like that in AK though....grin

Wild guess but I bet freezing saltwater would be fun!

DD, humidity generally sucks hot or cold!



Unreal heat wave here. Last week we had a foot of frost in the ground.

Hit 50F today and we had 6" of mud!
Went out and helped a friend check grain bins for bugs and it was 4x4 required for 20 miles.

About 250lbs of mud will probably drop on my drive way tonight.

And turn into semi frozen chitballs by morning......grin

I don't see why not. The Naptha leaves a slight film of lubricant. It is also what I lube my stainless folding pocket knife with when it gets bound up.

Oh it's true. And it happens.

Excessive Wyoming dust will turn to gumbo,and shut them down,too.

Seen both.

The safety mortice can get clogged with snow or ice, yes. And the same can happen with a M70 stock because no stock is water tight around the action. But with a M70, there's no box to trap anything and the water drains of the trigger....however you want to explain it,I've never seen a M70 trigger or safety fail to work due to weather but have seen it happen to Remingtons more than once.

With a ton of experience with the 700s in very bad weather, including SW ND in freezing rain I have yet to see a 700 trigger stop in the field.

In testing where I had them set out under identical conditions the 70 trigger fared no better than the 700. Of course that was controlled conditions and many, many different applications...

I would even say I worked harder at getting the 700 to fail because of the supposed reputation.

The one point that makes a difference is that all of the triggers were clean and had a light application of Dri-Slide.

Is Dry-Slide a moly lube or something ?

PFM!

Moly and graphite, IIRC. It is dry to the touch immediately and seems to prevent corrosion, too.