The last thread is 60 pages and is drifting a little, so I'll start a new one.
So I didn't know better because I don't follow the forums much.
I wanted a Kimber Montana, and I had enough sense to check on the Internet and heard about accuracy problems.
For no known reason, when I got the chance on a Forbes 20B .308 at a great price, I jumped on it without checking - I guess because the name.
It shoots 7/8" with factory ballistic tips (Federal).
The bolt locks up with factory loads, the rounds feed 50%, eject 75%, (and the action is rough which I assume the parkerizing will smooth with use).
I love the weight and want to find a solution.
Calling the dealer tomorrow.
Hope he is helpful because I don't want to deal with customer service. He has several and I hope he will let me swap for one we can test in the store.
Dealer said he had not sold any he had in stock, but had special ordered 3. So he gave me a deal.....
Von

I sympathize with your plight. I think, however, that I would have taken a chance on the occasional accuracy issues of the Montanas rather than the functional problems that seem to plague the Forbes rifles. If I ever start to itch all over for a Melvin, I'm going to save my lunch money until I can afford a real one.

There are, I think, a good number of multi-Montana owners on here, but few, if any guys with more than one Forbes.

Good luck with your problem.

The dealer had a lot of Kimber problems. Not once in a while.
I just sat for an hour running some live rounds through it and it is getting better. They parkerized the feed ramp and it doesn't agree with soft point bullets. It is wearing smooth.
The bolt is still failing to pick up the bullet from the left side of the mag about half the time.
150 Core Lokts did not show pressure, so I have a load that will work. Federals showed some pressure and Hornady super performance (my favorite) locked the bolt.
Cleaned it and going to shoot a few more times in a.m. before calling the dealer.

You know your dealer and I don't, but many would not be above steering a customer towards something they want to get rid of.

I've only had one Kimber, and it wasn't a Montana, but accuracy was never an issue, unless not being able to tell how many holes made up a group is a problem.

Again, good luck.

This is just nuckin futz to me. If I woke up tomorrow and owned my own rifle mfg company, you can bet EVERY freaking gun would be function tested before leaving the plant. And the name of the inspector would be documented for every gun. Malfunctioning gun goes out...inspector be standing in the unemployment line! This type of QC is unacceptable for a $300 truck gun much less a $1200 "semi" custom piece. There's been days I wanted a 20B so bad I could taste it! But, now, I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. Hell, I got a TC Encore, albeit a single shot and not 4.75 lbs, it feeds and goes boom 100% of the time! And got a couple Tikka's that feed and extract like butter.

I feel for you, Von. It's simple to me...Forbes needs to FIX it...or replace it! Good luck.

I have more than one Forbes. I guess that puts me in the minority.

The most recent one did have a few brass-colored streaks on the feed ramp, so I assume someone checked it over for such issues. Haven't been to the range yet so I can't say for certain.

IMO, a dang fine rifle if you get a good one.

"Haven't been to the range yet so I can't say for certain."

That's the key words. Hate to recommend it without that.
We all wanted "a good one".

We know the design is good, so at some point a decision was taken to either not test the rifles for function before they ship, or to ship regardless. Somethin' ain't right, and if they don't fix it soon, they will go down.

I just ran a full box of blue box Federal through it without problem. The only difference was the cycling work I did last night and it was 15 degrees cooler.
No rounds stuck in the chamber or show any marks on the case head.
No functioning problems except: I can't run the gun from the shoulder unless I use the palm to push the bolt forward. If I use the fingers to grasp the bolt, it binds. It is still stiff with the parkerization, but the bolt did pick up all the rounds from the magazine. I wonder if when I cycled them in the chair in my lap, vs from the shoulder, there is a slightly different angle to the bolt because there is a good little bit of play in the bolt.
Anyway, apparently this thing is a little rough and needs to be worn in like some 1911's. I think I'm going to keep it because it is accurate and I have a herniated disc in my back and I'm desperate for a lighter rifle.
I guess I'll have to put up with the idiocycrancies(SP), but I rarely get a second accurate shot on a whitetail so I'm not too concerned with rate of fire. However if the gun is slung when I need it because of weight.....no deer.
Von

If its locking up with factory ammo, I would not keep it, period. Something aint right and you don't want be in the woods when it happens. I know your invested but take a look at the Kimbers and the Weatherby ULW, I know the price tag on the Weatherby is high and the barrel longer but if you look around, you can find a deal on one. I have/had a few and been around a few more and they function and shoot well, all the time

Actually, the key phrase is that I own multiple Forbes with no problems. Yes, the newest one has not been to the range, but based on performance of the others, it will likely function fine and shoot little tiny groups.

Bowie Outfitters?

I think I agree about the sticking ammo.
The Federal was OK this a.m. But I think I'll try more before I make a decision.

Yes to Bowie Outfitters.

Time was every now and then one got a bad rifle... Today, it's every now and then one gets a good rifle.

Same with everything..

You aren't kidding. I bought a sweet limited run NIB Ruger RSI 7x57 with 18.5" full stock and the first round chambered made a screeching noise. Still scratches brass, but shoots OK and no more noise. Some sort of burrs I guess.
I have no idea why the Forbes would show high pressure and then quit. I'm going to put on a sissy bag and shoot some 180 Federal tomorrow. Maybe another few rounds of Hornady superperformance. But I read reviews that the Hornady doesn't agree with all guns and I certainly don't have to use it.
If it's a match tight chamber that causes a little pressure I'm not upset.
If it's excessive headspace, that's a no-go. Need to borrow a guage.
Von

I had one of the early 30-06s. Mine shot very well with factory ammo and never had any function problems.

I know have two. A 20B in 308 with the stainless barrel and green stock and a model 24B in 270 (its not gay really!) also with the stainless barrel and grey stock.

Both are tack drivers and feed perfectly. Fit and finish is excellent, my only beef, which I have made Forbes aware, is that IMO the safety cutout into the stock is a little fugly.

If you are curious about Forbes, I highly encourage you to pick up the phone and call Forbes. Ask to speak with Rick Campbell. He is awesome to deal with and will talk with you at length about the rifles. Ask him about some of the problems you may have heard about. Hear about it from the horses' mouth. That is what I did before ordering my first one. I was going back and forth between a Forbes and a Montana. I read the epic thread on here about Forbes so I decided to pick up the phone and ask some hard questions.

Next month at SHOT I will be at the Kimber booth asking similar questions.

Here is my 308 with a VX3 2.5x8

Forget Rick Cambell,

Just call Melvin Forbes himself, I did with a 24B that was shooting 3" groups. The magazine was binding the action up.

Melvin fixed it free of charge and sent it back to me no charge. All within two weeks. Remarkable time, I think.

I asked if I could pay him. He said he would be sending the bill to Forbes Rifles.

As far as quality of the Kimber and the Forbes. In regards to actions and stocks. The Forbes rifle is far superior to the Kimber. The stock on the Kimber is junk compared to the Forbes.

Forbes action is also much better. The barrels are probably equal...not good.

I'm going to start with the store and work up from there.
I would appreciate an exchange, but if they won't do it, I'll go to either of the above.

How so my friend? Please give as many details as possible. I'm interested if you are speaking from a technical viewpoint or from personal feel and preference. Either is fine but I would like to know more than it's just better. Exactly how is it better?

I had a 84L for awhile of which I sent down the road. It failed to impress me. The action was very basic. The stock was thin and in my opinion not high quality as some here have said, even comparing them to Mcmillan. My opinion from owning both.

I know with what I went through, I wouldn't trust ANYTHING coming from Rick Campbell.

Laughably bad communication, QC and CS.

I look at them every week and for the life of me can't see $1500 of rifle there. They remind me more of a Savage than anything else. Butt ugly to boot. Gritty actions and I don't care for the muzzle tilt balance.

After Rancho's experience I would never buy one. Rather take a 700 MR and drop it in a McMillan Edge,and would rather have a Kimber any day.

Wasn't it Mel Forbes who taught Kimber how to make synthetic stocks? At least that's what I recall.

To be honest, this is why I like mine.



I thought the same thing. Is this not true?

I like the thin stock but I don't get the basic part. What about the Kimber is more "basic" than the Forbes?

I think basic is better. A Kimber 84 action in my eyes is almost the same as a pre-64 Win 70. Kimber is smaller in dimension, I know. If somebody will point out the differences, I'll definitely and gladly listen and learn.

Great trigger as well....on the Kimber. And I love the stock on the Montana. Seems to be as stiff as it needs to be. All it needs is bedding in the lug area and I'd compare it to any out there of similar weight. Would I rather have an Edge? Yes. But I see NO need to add $600 or so to the cost of a Montana just to get a slightly better stock.

But to each his own. That's why different rifle manufacturers sell rifles.

I handled 2 forbes down at the pawnshop a couple of weeks ago, yes, in a pawnshop, and I still prefer the forbes stock to the montana.

I walked away still smiling though, to have washed my hands of that whole goat rope..

Rancho
I've never handled a Forbes or Nula. I won't buy a Forbes until they get their act together, if they make it that long. Can you explain exactly what it is about the stock that you like over a Kimber 84M?

I have the Kimber and like it fine. I've killed 3 whitetails with it this year shooting standing offhand and I haven't missed yet.

If there is something special about the Forbes, I may have to start saving for a NULA to try out.

Shorter grip on the forbes..

Internet mythology.

Agreed. The action is deceptively simple. Fulfills everything I want in a Mountain Rifle. Ditto the stock, it's dimensions are spot-on perfect for me, but I'm not very big at 5'10", 155lbs.

The Forbes stock doesn't fit me as well as the Kimber, and I don't like the tighter grip... choices are great, but handling several Forbes rifles I was completely underwhelmed by the fit and finish.

I've owned five Kimbers and two ULAs.

I vastly prefer the Kimber stock design to the ULA/NULA/Forbes, and would rate the Kimber quite a bit above a Mcmillan Hunters Edge in ergos.

I would agree with that.

What ever fits you, I like The Forbes stock, and when I call thin on the Kimber, I'm referring to its construction.

No way it comes close to Mcmillan or Forbes quality.

I found Rick Campbell to be uninformed and difficult to do business with. He promised that I would get my LH Forbes by last Spring, then late Spring, then early Summer, then late Summer, then early Fall etc.

When I brought the multiple wrong data to his attention, he got annoyed, and I also found out that he does not know very much about his product.

It appears that he has a thick head and a thin skin. Would not do business with him again.

Steve

To add to the discussion, I just finger banged a Howa Alpine at the local Whorehouse, and at $999, I think forbes has something to worry about besides their crappy CS and QC..

Any chance you weighed it?

Don't usually carry a postal scale around..

Howa lists it at 5-11.. and I bet it is. (snark intentional)

IMO, that's absolutely not the case. I've got a cross section of a Montana stock, and it's quite thick. It's laid glass cloth and plenty tough. Certainly on the order of a McMillan or Bansner.

Slacker.

I'd kill to get our whorehouse back. Liked them the most, even over our Cabela's.

I'd imagine the counter jockeys wouldn't know wtf was going on..

It's alright, I can wait 'til you get one home...

Big Fin sez he has a .308 ready for me to test drive...

Take your postal scale. Tell him you're taking part in Carl's postal match.

Legacy lists the B/A they're using at 4.5 lbs. Aren't Bansners around 1.5 lb? Just curious how close to their advertised weight it comes. Love me some Howa.

Just looked that up, had never seen/heard of the Howa Alpine. I have to check one out, as I too love Howa rifles, except their weight.

I guess they'd be a few hundred more if they came with a Shaw barrel...

Shades of Montana Rifle Company

I wish the Kimber Montana was made with a cheekpiece just like the SuperAmerica. Then it would be perfect!

Scott,

Forbes and the Montana Rifle Company have a lot in common. Had not thought of that before but you are exactly right.

Thanks for the insight.

Steve

Those alpines look real nice....

Took the rifle to the store today with fired brass.
Checked headspace with guages and OK.
Checked brass with calipers and not oversized chamber.
Manager called Forbes and talked to Chris Bozzi.
Chris said send him the rifle, he would pay shipping.
I spoke to him on the phone and he doesn't suspect pressure, he thinks something is wrong with the bolt.
We will see.
Von

Well, Mr. Campbell finally called and said the gun was ready.
Anything found/fixed? No. Tried three loads and it was accurate.....Wasn't returned for accuracy.......(The repair form said one word: misfire - which it wasn't).
To make a long story short, they didn't find anything.
Can you at least send it to me so I don't have to drive 2 hour round trip to Bowie. Sure.
Bowie called - it was sent to them anyway.
I shot it and it doesn't get sticky extraction anymore, even as it warms up.
Don't know if it fixed itself or they did something and didn't admit it.
It does still fail to feed rounds from the right side of the mag if you don't run it hard from the shoulder. They can't help but have noticed this and did nothing.
I'm going to just use the thing. It does work if you run it like you stole it and plastic tipped bullets help the problem.
Since neither Forbes nor Bowie will exchange it, I'll just have to live with it.
This is my first 5# rifle and the weight is an absolute joy.
My advice though is to stay away from Forbes.
Von

Hello Mr. Rick Cambell.

If you are reading this thread, you can understand why I cancelled my order over a year ago. I do appreciate the call the other day telling me my rifle was ready. But my feelings are the same as they were a year ago.

So, here is my story. A little bad, and a lot of good at the end.

Anyway, I posted on here on one of these threads that I loaned my rifle out to a young relative to go shoot and it came back with a bolt handle that was just barely hanging on that promptly broke as soon as I worked the bolt. His claimed not to have done anything or noticed it...so be it. It wasn't worth family drama to make a big deal out of it.

So, anyway, I called up Forbes to get them to work on it. I didn't get an immediate response. So, on a whim I called up Melvin Forbes at NULA just to see if he would work on it if they didn't get back with me soon. I, of course, planned to pay him for his work as that I understand it isn't his company. But, figuring that it was more or less the same rifle, I knew he could get it done.

So, anyway, I called NULA up and Mr. Forbes answered the phone. I told him the deal and he said, "Send it to me. It has my name on it so I'll work on it." So, I sent him the bolt and within a week or so, he called me back and told me that I would need to send him the whole rifle as that they would have to fit a new bolt altogether rather than simply braze a handle on to the old one. That was in early November. So, once I got that call, I knew I wouldn't have it for hunting season, so some of the urgency was gone.

Anyway, I finally got around to sending it to Mr. Forbes a month or so ago. And within a week or so of him receiving it, I had it back. The bolt is noticeably smoother now and although I didn't pay to much attention before, it looks like the handle is more firmly attached now than it was.

I had a few conversations with Mr. Forbes and I got the impression that he wanted to look at my rifle just to see if things were being done up to his standards. He did mention once that my rifle would be "right" and although he didn't go into detail, he said that my bolt had "not been right". He got a bolt from Forbes Rifle and then fitted it to my rifle.

So, anyway, I shot the rifle this past weekend and it is a legitimate tack driver. Probably the most accurate rifle I have. I am very pleased with it now. Although, that isn't exactly ringing endorsement for the company.

Oh, and in the intervening six months or so since I called about the rifle, as far as I know, I've never gotten a call from Forbes Rifle Inc..

But if and when I ever want another lightweight rifle, you can bet I'll be giving Mr. Forbes a call and have him build me one.

It seems to me it would be worth the extra for a NULA to deal with a man who cares about his product and has great CS.

The man always answers his own phone and is polite to a fault. I'm pretty sure, though I haven't asked, and probably will not, that he did a little more to my rifle than just the bolt.

Anyway, it would be hard to brag on him too much.

He is apparently on a whole other level from Titan.
There is no way I could pay for a NULA so I took a chance.
Bowie admitted that the Kimber Montanas had accuracy problems for them, so try Forbes.....
Ideally you could try either the Kimber or Forbes in the store before buying - guns that have great potential but spotty quality. Guess I won't hold my breath for that concept. Just a thought for $1500 guns. I mean all I need to know is it functions and shoots a 3 shot 1.5" group. You're confident of at least that, right???................

Von

http://www.wcsh6.com/story/news/2015/09/25/workers-titan-machine-go-without-paychecks/72826768/

uh oh

Looks like the party is about over....

Musical chairs is playing.

Hope you don't have a rifle there for repairs or a deposit down on an order - Ponzi scheme comes to mind.

Bummer.

Von Odenwald,

The party has been over for a while. Last year Melvin Forbes demanded Forbes buy out his share of the company, because they were not making rifles up to the standards agreed upon when the company was formed. In fact the agreement said they'd ship all rifles to him to be checked out BEFORE they went on to customers, whether individuals or companies, and the people at Forbes never did.

One of the other original partners left this year, and when a new partner came in the situation got even worse. Their bank shut them down this fall.

At least it won't lead to a New New Ultra Light Arms.

Mel can't pick them.

Wow.
I never would have bought one if I had known.
They repaired mine and sent it back just in time.

No loss in my mind because of quality of later guns except for those that already bought a Forbes.

The real NULAs are nice, quality rifles worth saving $$$ for if they fit you. I hunted exclusively for 5-6 seasons with a handful of NULAs. I really liked the rifles except the recoil was atrocious for me. Also, I work a bolt rifle from the shoulder and with some authority and broke the spring that holds up the bolt stop several times on a couple of rifles. I don't think this is a common problem because Melvin seemed surprised. I eventually found a fix for it, though. I have switched to Kimbers for light rifles because of stock fit. I really do miss NULAs and wished they fit me better.

It's a real shame because some quality control and customer service would have made them a great company.

All they needed was one good worker there that could handle people and take a 5 minute look at the rifles before they left the factory.

Yep.

If anybody wants a really good used Forbes rifle, look for low serial numbers, because Melvin himself built the early rifles. A friend of mine was at the range when I was testing a prototype, and wanted one in .30-06. He got #24, and it's as good a rifle as my mid-90's NULA .30-06. It shoots cloverleaves with Nosler 165 AccuBond factory ammo, and he's taken several deer and elk with that load, including a big bull.

But the later ones.....

I can't say enough good things about my Colt Light Rifle that was sent to Melvin for his NULA make over. I think buying a used CLR and then sending it to Mr. Forbes for his upgrade is the best value for guaranteed performance out there right now.

I got #238 - a .270 and it is as close to flawless right out of the box as anything I have ever owned. Scary accurate too.

Be interesting to work up the serial # scale to see where things started to go south.

I'll not part with this rifle because I don't think you could replace it for anything near the money.

Geez, Melvin has had bad luck with these secondary companies - CLR and Forbes.
Hopefully he has a solid crew in the shop now, so when he decides to retire, rifles will continue to be made properly.

I suspect that Melvin would welcome some young gunsmith who wanted to really learn to make NULA rifles and eventually take over the shop.

Boy, there is an opportunity for a young man looking towards the future!

As long as Melvin is breathing, he would never believe anyone else could do it right. Maybe so even when he isn't.

If he didn't think so before, his experience with Colt and Titan should have pushed him in that direction.

I have an early Forbes in 30/06. It had some issues at first, but seemed to break in well after about a hundred rounds. I'm sad to see this happening with Titan.

He keeps going with 'Yankee' companies. Of course WV is a Yankee state, so I guess it makes sense.

When Titan finally folds, there could be a good opportunity to buy the equipment and do things the way Melvin intended. The production and custom shops would be best suited in the same area, so they could benefit from each other in many ways and Melvin could keep a finger on the pulse of everything while mentoring and building trust with a new partner. That's the way I'd do it, anyway.

Mayhaps the nidus for NForbes LLC.

Learnt me a new word.

nidus

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nidus



P

I've owned 1 ULA, 2 Montanas, and now a mid-60s serial # Forbes 30-06. The ULA/Forbes stock fits me much better than the Montana. All had excellent fit/finish and were accurate with handloads. I loved the ULA (7RM) but had to sell it when money got tight. Recently replaced it with the Forbes. I bought it here so it had a known history of functioning 100% and being accurate. I enjoy it. The stocks seem to fit perfectly and really tame recoil, for me anyway - I'm 6'5. I never felt as comfortable with the Montanas.

With the skill set we have here on the campfire, we need to spawn our own rifle company. Good Lord these startups are sucking.

Kind of what I was thinking. His business acumen seems to be lacking.

Seems he can run his own business well but when other cooks join in with a bigger pot the stew just ain't the same.

Forbes had so much going for them just based on the actions and the stocks. You'd think they could start really simple, producing only a stainless barreled version on one of the actions and staying with that until they had everything perfect...then open up with another action as demand grew. Oh well, would have loved for them to have done well.

I'm not sure that would work. Remember the Campfire rifle? IMO, it did not even closely resemble what was mostly discussed on this site at the time.

Ditto.

Classic. Burn rate >>> Positive cash flow.

And then there was this:

https://www.nammo.com/news-and-even...2000-hunting-rifles-under-nammo-license/

Oh....didn't know about that.

Anyone know anything about the company in Alabama that manufacturers the stocks for Titan/Forbes? I live in Alabama and this is the first I've heard of it.

Forbes is TU so maybe they are too.




Travis

Anyone know anything about the company in Alabama that manufacturers the stocks for Titan/Forbes? I live in Alabama and this is the first I've heard of it.