I would have said that the Marlin X guns were the best buy in entry level CF rifles, but Marlin has discontinued them. Without having shot one, I'd be interested in the Ruger American Rifle, particularly the Predator style. I'm going to buy a Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor when they become available. FWIW, Davidson's has been advertising Marlin X guns for around $250 wholesale, the least expensive that I've ever seen them.
Weatherby Vanguard 2s can regularly be purchased NIB for $500 and the 4 that I have are all good shooters, with the 6.5 Creedmoor being the most accurate out-of-the-box standard production CF rifle, shooting factory ammo, that I've yet to own.
Although widely criticized, the Colt Light Rifles that I've owned have all been good shooters and have come to me from between $400 and $500.
I picked up an XS7 (stainless) for ~$300 out the door in 243. Intended to use as a loaner/truck gun.
The plastic stock is as good as most, but the mag follower and bolt feel squirt-gunnish. The gun I brought home had a machine mark in the crown that I discovered after getting home. I fixed it myself. Mounted a bargain Weaver classic V9 that was on sale for $119 in a set on Model 70 mounts and rings I had laying around.
When all was said and done, it shoots 85 NPs over Varget and 85 TSXs over H4350 well under MOA. Doesn't get much more 'budget' than that.
I'll bit for the Marlin XS7 or XL7. I don't own one, but I've shot and been around several. Build quality is iffy, but they have all been very accurate.
While accuracy is nice, a guy shouldn't ignore the other attributes of a rifle. The Howa is a Sako clone and a damn fine action.
Yes, many come with Hogues but the non-Hogue synthetic is pretty serviceable.
Triggers on the new ones are pretty GD UBER. Uses the same bases/rings as a 700 which is nice.
The only other rifle that can contend with the Howa is the Vanguard (same gun, different label) and the Remington ADL/SPS-Whatever the Fugg-they call it now. They can still be had brand new for Ruger American prices.
Savage replaced the Stevens 200 with the cheaper to produce Savage Axis line.
The nice thing about the Marlin X guns for a tinkerer like me is that I can easily and (usually) inexpensively swap barrels via Savage 110 series take-offs. That, and the fact that all of the Marlin X guns that I've shot offer the shooter a lot of accuracy potential for each dollar spent.
Another vote for the Rem 700 SPS. I picked one up at Cabelas a couple of weeks ago for $400 and it had a $50 rebate so now it is down to $350.
The best part is that it is shooting sub 3/4 inch groups with the X Mark Pro trigger, and no bedding work. I checked the action screws, which were tight, mounted a scope and used some reloads developed for a different rifle. Yes, those were 5 shot groups.
I have been able to get the X Mark Pro triggers down to 3 lbs so with a little trigger work and a bit of load development it should be close to a 1/2inch rifle for $350.
I bought a bunch of 700 ADL and SPS youth rifles to use as donors back in 2007/2008 and still have six or seven on the shelf in the event that building something new/different moves me. Now that I'm healthy again, I might build something.
I liked the original "JM" stamped Marlin XS/L 7 best for a value rifle but since Remington bought them out not so much. Never had one but would like to try a TC Venture. A friend has a Howa and it's a nice piece. The "modern" styling of some entry guns make me want to hurl.
My TC Venture has had some very nice groups. It is a youth model but still a bit on the heavy side. It is 1/2 lb heavier than my sons Tikka T3 light and it has a 3" longer barrel to boot. I don't know why it's so heavy.
I am partial to the howas myself. Some on gunbroker can be had for well under $400. Buy one of those and throw it in a Sako Classic McMillan and you have a fine rifle. My current one, a 300 wm, with a 3-9x40 conquest is becoming my favorite rifle. Not much a 150 gr ttsx at 3300 fps wont handle.
I used to say that the Tikka T3 was not a budget rifle but as of late I have changed my thinking on the subject. Here's what I came up with.
Budget rifle $300-$600
Mid rifle $600- $1000
Caddilac rifle $1000-$2500
Keep in mind my theorizing is based on the middle class citizen who now are somewhat lower than middle class. And it is only my opinion.
With that said if the Tikka T3 truly is a budget rifle it is the budget rifle of my choice. I think I would classify it as the caddilac of the budget rifles. I appreciate such features of the Tikka rifle such as the strong and durable polymer parts because they do bring the weight of the rifle to a point that fits perfectly in my opinion. I also appreciate the high level of accuracy and the butter smooth functioning of the action.
Though the Tikka T3 may be the rifle I choose to carry I do not consider it to be the King of the budget rifles. To be King I believe the rifle must offer a lot for the $ spent and though I pay to get a Tikka because of features I like the features are pricey enough it doesn't meet the best bang for the buck.
The verdict is still out for me exactly which rifle is the King of the Budget rifles however I am leaning some toward the Ruger American.
I've owned them all and the American is the King of the budget builds. Although many mentioned in this thread are fine rifles, the RAR is the king of low dollar/high performance.
This past summer , my son , who is a budding rifle looney , traded for two RAR , one in 30-06 and one in 7mm-08 . I bought a new 243 carbine for the nephews and future grand kids . I shot them all with handloads developed for other rifles and was thoroughly impressed . They all shot groups plenty good enough to hunt with , with loads that were not tailored for them at all . I was so impressed with the 30-06 that I decided to play with it a little .I looked at what 30 cal bullets I had around and then loaded 150's with imr 4064 , 165's with H4350 and 180's with H4350 , loaded the different weights to identical charges of 52 grains for the 150's ,58 grains for the 165's and 57 grains for the 180's and used coal that was indicated in the manual and then shot for group and chronographed . The 150's all chronographed around 2900 , the 165's all around 2800 and the 180's all around 2750 . You could have hunted any of the loads depending on your preference and POI was close enough that no sight adjustment for 100 yards was necessary .That was with standard bullets from Hornady , Speer ,Nosler and Sierra.
Used, quality. Hard to beat that $80 Ruger tang that I chopped the muzzle bulge off to 17 inches. Shoots 1.25 MOA. Have killed several tons of game out to @ 360 yards.
All but one of my other rifles shoot as well or better. All 2nd hand except the Win94 which has been in the family, purchased new, since 1927.
I used to say that the Tikka T3 was not a budget rifle but as of late I have changed my thinking on the subject. Here's what I came up with.
Budget rifle $300-$600
Mid rifle $600- $1000
Caddilac rifle $1000-$2500
Keep in mind my theorizing is based on the middle class citizen who now are somewhat lower than middle class. And it is only my opinion.
With that said if the Tikka T3 truly is a budget rifle it is the budget rifle of my choice. I think I would classify it as the caddilac of the budget rifles. I appreciate such features of the Tikka rifle such as the strong and durable polymer parts because they do bring the weight of the rifle to a point that fits perfectly in my opinion. I also appreciate the high level of accuracy and the butter smooth functioning of the action.
Though the Tikka T3 may be the rifle I choose to carry I do not consider it to be the King of the budget rifles. To be King I believe the rifle must offer a lot for the $ spent and though I pay to get a Tikka because of features I like the features are pricey enough it doesn't meet the best bang for the buck.
The verdict is still out for me exactly which rifle is the King of the Budget rifles however I am leaning some toward the Ruger American.
Shod
Working in those constraints, I'd roll with the Savage trophy hunter for best budget rifle...every one I've ever shot has been lights out and they probably kill more deer than any other rifle carried in the group of guys I hunt with.
If you step up to the "Mid" level CZ-550, that's my go to rifle...beyond that??? Don't know.
Just bought an unfired S&W 1500 (Howa) 300 Win Mag in a B&C stock with a Burris 3x9 ballistic Plex from an estate sale for $325
Doesn't get more budget than that.
Well, several years ago you did sell me that $100 takeoff stainless 700TI .260 barrel which I screwed unto the 725 SA with a former .244 rusted out bbl, given me for free plus a little work on a couple other guns he had. Went on exactly upside down, bolt lapping only, adjusted the head space. Shoots factory 140 Corelokts MOA. Shoots like crap with any other bullet weight.
I'm still trying to decide if I should complain about that bum barrel......
I have had 2 Savage Axis rifles. One shot consistent 1/2 inch groups after trigger pull was lightened to 3.5 lb. The other functioned perfectly but 1 1/4 groups was the best I could get with it. Had Marlin XS7 and it was the smoothest and had the best finish of the budget rifles. Accuracy was good for hunting standards. I consider it the best buy of the less expensive rifles. Can be purchased in the $300 range.
I now have the Thompson Center Venture and it is the best handling and most accurate rifle I own. It is 243 and shoots 60 Hollow point Sierras over imr4064 into 1/3 inch group at 100 yards. 100 soft point Hornady's group at 3/4 inch with H4831sc powder. 100 Sierra prohunt over imr4350 groups around 1 1/4 inch.
The most talked about in this area is the Ruger American. I do not see many being purchased. Most owners complain about the flexing stocks but brag on the triggers.
My favorite budget rifle is a used at the Pawn shop or LGS Remington 700 ADL. I have gotten several over the years for between $200-$300. Usually can't find one if I need one though. One time at a little gun shop a guy was starting up in a storage shed next to the highway, he had 2 sps rem 700's for $200 a piece. I only had enough cash for 1 unfortunately.
I bought a Marlin XL7 in 25-06 from a 24HCF member in 2012 that has proven to be a very good shooter, surprisingly accurate with 90 grain PPU hollow points and 117 grain Hornady American Whitetail.
It shoots as well, maybe even a little better, than my 1st tier 25-06, a Remington 700 parts gun.
I have had 2 Savage Axis rifles. One shot consistent 1/2 inch groups after trigger pull was lightened to 3.5 lb. The other functioned perfectly but 1 1/4 groups was the best I could get with it. Had Marlin XS7 and it was the smoothest and had the best finish of the budget rifles. Accuracy was good for hunting standards. I consider it the best buy of the less expensive rifles. Can be purchased in the $300 range.
I now have the Thompson Center Venture and it is the best handling and most accurate rifle I own. It is 243 and shoots 60 Hollow point Sierras over imr4064 into 1/3 inch group at 100 yards. 100 soft point Hornady's group at 3/4 inch with H4831sc powder. 100 Sierra prohunt over imr4350 groups around 1 1/4 inch.
The most talked about in this area is the Ruger American. I do not see many being purchased. Most owners complain about the flexing stocks but brag on the triggers.
I got a Venture compact in 308 this year. Made some light loads with 125 B-tips for my neice and daughter. I have to go find another gun for them not, this one's mine. I did have an issue with the extractor not wanting to let the bolt cam over on the case rim but that was an easy fix. Trigger is 1.75 lbs and shoots half moa, what's not to like considering I spent 375 after rebate on it.
Hey Flave, I was at the range a few weeks ago and a fella with a Howa was shooting some pretty impressive groups.
On a side note I'm wanting to get out to Montana this year for hunting some. I'll have to PM ya friendo and perhaps we can go shoot a few critters.
Shod
Hate to admit it, but I too would have to agree with Travis. After reading this thread, I asked myself, which of the guns mentioned would I put in my safe and the Howa came out on top, value for the dollar. If I could afford a bit more, I'd go with the Wby Vanguard 2. At least those are solid, conventional type guns made out of steel.
700 ADL and Howa/Vanguard have topped my budget rifle list for decades. All I paid under $375 for. I can still get them for $379 right now.
As for the RAR, it seems a solid value. I was actually going to build on one, until the rotary magazine fu**ed that up. Now I will need to purchase another ADL or Howa.
If anybody has one for sale, S/A with .473 bolt face, I'm all ears. I don't need the barrel, nor any tupperware stocks.....
It seems to me that the guys who buy Remingtons, and have always been buying Remingtons, keep buying Remingtons with no complaints, or very little. I hear lotsa whining from guys I know damn well don't even run 700s or have never owned more than 1 in their life.
I have a bunch of them here. 3 are newer. One had a bad extractor. It was a 5 minute fix at Karl's house. Remington even sent me a spare in the mail, FOC. Still have it in the envelope.
Other than that, of the bunches of 700s I have owned/do own, no troubles. None. All shoot very well. Contrary to what you may read, they required no tinkering or changing of parts to do so. Just a trigger adjustment.
I have owned many other rifles that shot very well, but required more attention out of the box. Savages that mined copper like a prospector and don't feed right, CZs with horribly rough actions and terribly tuned triggers, Winchesters with hot glue "bedding" that needed removed and rebedded to shoot, and Ruger 77s and #1s with horribly rough barrels that never produced very good accuracy in any factory form, etc., etc.
I have not had any troubles with Vanguard I have owned since the 1980s. Not the best trigger, but a trouble free tackdriver.
I may add that every one of above rifles cost me more than my last 2 Remington purchases that work/shoot very well.
For $379 a 700 ADL is still very hard to beat. Regardless of what you may read on the internet......
Do you think, out of the box, across the board, new 700's will consistently work side by side with new Howa/Vanguard 2's fresh out of the box? All prior to adjusting, tinkering, fixing, etc.
I am partial to the howas myself...Buy one of those and throw it in a Sako Classic McMillan and you have a fine rifle.
Exactly what this is. Howa Youth .243, Mickey Sako Classic. 2-7X33 VX-2, and I did add a Timney trigger. It's pretty darn accurate, fairly compact, and reliable.
I am partial to the howas myself...Buy one of those and throw it in a Sako Classic McMillan and you have a fine rifle.
Exactly what this is. Howa Youth .243, Mickey Sako Classic. 2-7X33 VX-2, and I did add a Timney trigger. It's pretty darn accurate, fairly compact, and reliable.
I've have a Howa and a Marlin X7. Yes the Howa is better finish, build. Both shoot real well. Honestly, seeing the X7 online for around $260, and in town for about $300, I'm having a hard time resisting another gun...especially when I have a scope "patiently" waiting in my shop.
My last four Vanguard 2s were all good shooters out of the box, with the 6.5 Creedmoors being sub-MOA with three different Hornady factory loads. The 223 and 243 were sub-MOA with rifle-specific handloads and not much more than MOA with a variety of factory loads. Good, but not as good as the 6.5 Creedmoors.
Also, I like the synthetic factory stocks on the Vanguards better than Remington's factory plastic. I have swapped stocks on two of the Vanguards, one to a McM Hunter and one to a Boyds Prairie hunter. I am thinking about taking the Boyds off and going back to the OEM, as the Prairie Hunter is just a little too heavy for my tired old a$$ to carry afield.
It seems to me that the guys who buy Remingtons, and have always been buying Remingtons, keep buying Remingtons with no complaints, or very little. I hear lotsa whining from guys I know damn well don't even run 700s or have never owned more than 1 in their life.
I've bought and run 25-30 Remingtons in my life, for about 10 years it's all I owned.... but I won't buy another new one unless it's a donor. I only have one left in the stable now... because it's a 'custom' rifle that has surely earned its place in the rotation (even though it has already been outshot by the CTR in same caliber).
If I had but $600 to spend on the rifle, sans glass/mounting.... there's no way it would be anything but a Tikka.
If I had but $400 to spend.... I'd save my money.... there isn't anything on the market for sub-$400 that I'd expect anything from, especially if I wanted to hunt it hard...
For the price of a $600 Tikka, I just bought a 700 ADL in 243, and glass bedded it into a B&C Medalist.
What I have now is a USA made rifle with a true short action, a fiberglass stock, a steel bolt shroud, a glass bedded action, and a 2.5 lb. trigger, that already shoots 1.25" groups at 200 yds. That is with the 1 and only load tried thus far, so better accuracy is undoubtedly yet to come.
Why anyone would take a foreign made 243 on a long action, tupperware stock, full of plastic parts over said rifle for same price is beyond my realm of thinking. Truly.
I wouldn't classify Tikkas as budget rifles. They may be have budget rifle parts/design, but they certainly don't have a budget rifle price.......
For the price of a $600 Tikka, I just bought a 700 ADL in 243, and glass bedded it into a B&C Medalist.
What I have now is a USA made rifle with a true short action, a fiberglass stock, a steel bolt shroud, a glass bedded action, and a 2.5 lb. trigger, that already shoots 1.25" groups at 200 yds. That is with the 1 and only load tried thus far, so better accuracy is undoubtedly yet to come.
Why anyone would take a foreign made 243 on a long action, tupperware stock, full of plastic parts over said rifle for same price is beyond my realm of thinking. Truly.
I wouldn't classify Tikkas as budget rifles. They may be have budget rifle parts/design, but they certainly don't have a budget rifle price.......
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind (nor in yours, obviously) that you might be the most amazing and knowledgeable rifle expert the internet has ever seen. You regularly exhibit it here. Everyone should follow your trail to Nirvana (rifle speaking).
The last time I looked, small dealer wholesale for a 700 SPS was around $520 for CM and $595 for SS. The high volume retailers can sell the same rifle for less than I can buy it and pay for it to be shipped to me.
If I found stainless 700s for less than $400, I'd probably buy several of them either to restock as shooters or just for the donor actions.
Bud's regular, not sale, prices of $541 for CM and $647 for SS are about as close to small dealer wholesale as you're likely to find without having an FFL.
If you're not going to tinker or accessorize a budget rifle, the Ruger ARA for under $350 retail looks like it would be hard to beat. Maybe it wouldn't be the rifle that you'd buy if you depended on wild game for your meat, but for the majority of casual or beginning hunters who want a new rifle or the shooter who wants an inexpensive quick twist 223 or any 6.5 Creedmoor, where would you go to buy for less or equal $$?
Agreed on the RAR. It is priced at what the Tikka should be priced. But then all the Tikka fans wouldn't get to overpay for less, and throw money out on import fees. It would probably drive them crazy......
Agreed on the RAR. It is priced at what the Tikka should be priced. But then all the Tikka fans wouldn't get to overpay for less, and throw money out on import fees. It would probably drive them crazy......
I'm sure it would drive you crazy too. You'd have to find an entirely new schtick to make yourself seem important and relevant on the internet. It must be lonely at the top.
That's what I thought. You can't do it. Just out for a whine. Nothing constructive to add.
The fact remains, I have yet for anyone to validate the extra $250 or so the Tikka costs, in comparison to actual budget rifles like the 700 ADL, Marlin, Mossberg, RAR, etc.
That's what I thought. You can't do it. Just out for a whine. Nothing constructive to add.
The fact remains, I have yet for anyone to validate the extra $250 or so the Tikka costs, in comparison to actual budget rifles like the 700 ADL, Marlin, Mossberg, RAR, etc.
But please, feel free to enlighten me......
How about this for a start -
A good barrel
A very good, easy to adjust trigger
A sturdy non-flexing stock
Smooth operation of bolt.
Out of the box accuracy guarantee
Basically a "put a scope on it and go shoot rifle" rather than being a project rifle.
I will admit that I liked the Tikka better when it was $450 rifle but even at $650 it is better than buying one of the others and starting to throw money at it in order to make it perform to Tikka levels.
That's what I thought. You can't do it. Just out for a whine. Nothing constructive to add.
The fact remains, I have yet for anyone to validate the extra $250 or so the Tikka costs, in comparison to actual budget rifles like the 700 ADL, Marlin, Mossberg, RAR, etc.
But please, feel free to enlighten me......
Originally Posted by 2muchgun
It seems you are doing that all on your own. Again, I thank you....
And???? And????? Is that it, oh guru of the internet??? I'm starting to believe what I've been told about you from someone who says they know you.
You can get all of those things for $250 less. And I'm not so sure I agree on the stock comment. It is just as run-of-the-mill as any of the others IMO, and anything but what I would consider "sturdy". But the bedded B&C that I installed on the ADL was very sturdy, and included for the same price.
It seems many here claim "Tikka performance" from their $350 RAR rifles. But some choose not to listen.
I look at everything subjectively, and am brand loyal to none. If Remington or anyone else turns out a POS, I'm more than happy to call it such. Even if I bought it. Others go out of their way to justify their purchases. Which is sad.
I can't see the Tikka barrel and trigger costing any more to produce than any of the others. Nor the stock. But I can see the "recoil lug", shroud, magazine, and (in many cases but not all) receiver costing less. And unlike some, I really do prefer a true short action for s/a cartridges.
A hammer forged barrel is just that. Nothing to write home about, and hardly more costly to produce in comparison, once the equipment is paid for.
The Tikka trigger is excellent. Best part of the rifle, IMO. Mine is set at 19 ozs. and required no work. I can get 700 triggers down pretty low and have them break like glass. But it requires work and time to do so. Sometimes stoning and/or a new spring.
In part for part comparisons, I can't justify the much higher price tag over much less costly rifles. I have asked others to do so, but they never seem to be able to either.Where is the extra $250 at? He11, a $300 Stevens compares favorably at half the price and shoots well.
There are plenty of other rifles that shoot well and cost less. And I don't consider that opinion.
And I'm starting to believe that you can't tell me of a better rifle for $600, and that you can't justify the far greater price tag of the Tikka. And that you were just running your mouth. As expected.
What are you, some kind of drama queen?
So exactly what was your agenda in running your mouth in the first place? To make yourself look bad? It certainly wasn't to talk about rifles.
Next time you decide to run your mouth, at least have something to back it up. Because as of now, you have made a mockery of yourself............
The standard Tikka T3 Lite SS used to cost $500 around these parts at any given retailer. The same rifle sells for about $900 now. It's a good rifle, and I've been happy with my Tikkas, but it's a hard purchase to justify given the better options for just a few hundred more, and the roughly equivalent options for several hundred less.
Excuse me, I just had a RAR SS show up on the doorstep for roughly half of what a Tikka would cost me, so I'm off to tinker...
I would have said that the Marlin X guns were the best buy in entry level CF rifles, but Marlin Remington has discontinued them.
Allow me to fix that. The Marlin X guns were the pick of the budget guns, but Remington's marketing department decided the 783 would be an "improvement".
The Howa / Weatherby Vanguard is good if the price is right, the Savage Axis is OK.
I haven't had a chance to examine a Ruger American in detail yet, so I'll withhold judgement.
The worst? Easily the Remington 710/770. Wouldn't own one if it were free.
The fact remains, I have yet for anyone to validate the extra $250 or so the Tikka costs, in comparison to actual budget rifles like the 700 ADL, Marlin, Mossberg, RAR, etc.
I have a 700 ADL in 30/06, An RAR 243, used to have a Marlin XS7 243, and I've got to some Tikkas.
In the accuracy department my Tikkas win hands down especially at the 500 yd line.
The Marlin XS7 243 would often times shoot around 8" at 500.
The 700 CDL shoots around 7" at 500
My 270 Tikka has turned in a lot of 3" groups at 500
As far as actions go I pulled all my rifles off the wall and handed them to my 7 year old who now is 8 for a true action cycling test. The result were the Tikka action was the only one she was able to cycle. She cycled the action with relative ease. She now is the proud owner of a Tikka super lite in 223.
Bedding.....I glass bedded my 700 ADL, .....Glass bedded my Marlin XS7 .....The Tikkas, only an idiot would glass bed something that doesn't need it. .....The RAR I haven't touched yet because its going up for sale. Won't say why...I'll just say I'm unhappy with it.
Trigger.....Tikka hands down
Dependability
Tikka.....zero problems, it does have some polymer parts. Though I and most others have never seen a failure of the polymer parts apparantly they are crap.
I guess they should have made them out of steel like the Remington bolt.
Marlin XS7...zero problems
RAR.....No way in hell I would take it as is on an important hunt
700 CDL....misfires, note to self....don't shoot it like a Tikka because it won't go that many rounds without a good cleaning.
Overall performance from the factory with zero modifications.
The Tikka will dependably take game at 500 yds+ off the shelf
The Marlin XS7 I would use off the shelf to 400 yds.
The CDL in stock form with zero modification sucks. Groups without bedding were sufficient for 200 yd accuracy.
The RAR with zero modification sucks. The trigger is horrendous and the action feeds like sandpaper.
Yes I do realize NASA completely missed the boat when they refused to build the space shuttle out of steel.
It was at this point when the lead director of NASA.....now known as 2muchgun had no alternative but to resign.
PS...This is only my opinion. By making this statement thereof I hereby declare to be free and clear of any pissing matchs with any individuals or individual thereof.
I'm no Tikka basher. I like the rifles and they've all shot well for me out of the box. I don't consider their price point to be in the budget category.
But to say they need nothing out of the box is a stretch....
I've owned 5 of the stainless T3 Lite's. I didn't put 1 to a fair test, but the other 4 walked when the barrel heated up. The culprit in all 4 were the pressure points located 4 inches or so in front of the receiver. They all shot better when hot after the pressure points were removed.
The best shooting Tikka I've ever seen was a 7-08 Eddie F bedded for me in a B&C stock. The same rifle shot well in the factory stock after the pressure points were removed. The rifle shot exceptionally well after the stock switch and the bedding....
SAS, I'm not calling BS but in 2 Tikkas when the pressure point was removed I've noted larger groups in the first 3 shots cold bore.
In all fairness I don't know how they shoot after 3 shots as I always let my rifle cool for a good 15 minutes after a three shot group and commence to shooting other rifles and pistols.
I'm only interested in cold bore performance from the T3 because essentially this is what the rifle was designed for.....especially so of the super lite.
Tikka does build rifles that are designed to shoot repeatedly.......or (Warm) but that rifle is not a T3.
If the T3 is used for its intended purpose it requires nothing more than a scope be mounted right out of the box.
It wouldnt be a stretch to say that most tikka owners would agree with that statement.
I'm no Tikka basher. I like the rifles and they've all shot well for me out of the box. I don't consider their price point to be in the budget category.
But to say they need nothing out of the box is a stretch....
I've owned 5 of the stainless T3 Lite's. I didn't put 1 to a fair test, but the other 4 walked when the barrel heated up. The culprit in all 4 were the pressure points located 4 inches or so in front of the receiver. They all shot better when hot after the pressure points were removed.
The best shooting Tikka I've ever seen was a 7-08 Eddie F bedded for me in a B&C stock. The same rifle shot well in the factory stock after the pressure points were removed. The rifle shot exceptionally well after the stock switch and the bedding....
This is an accurate assessment.
The fact that you can take an ADL and glass bed it into a Medalist, and still be under the price of a factory Tikka sporting Tupperware, is one that should not go overlooked IMO......
The fact that you can take an ADL and glass bed it into a Medalist, and still be under the price of a factory Tikka sporting Tupperware, is one that should not go overlooked IMO......
The fact that you can take a ADL and have to do lots of things to it to get it on par with a Tikka has never gone overlooked. I'm not sure why you think it has.
The fact that you can take an ADL and glass bed it into a Medalist, and still be under the price of a factory Tikka sporting Tupperware, is one that should not go overlooked IMO......
The fact that you can take a ADL and have to do lots of things to it to get it on par with a Tikka has never gone overlooked. I'm not sure why you think it has.
Shod
It's easy to overlook the obvious when you're sitting on high in your throne and talking down to the peasant masses.
I'm no big pusher of Tikka rifles, but this constant mantra gets old very quickly. People buy what they buy. No one is right or wrong in real life, except when the don't agree with the guru in his fantasy world.
I'm no Tikka basher. I like the rifles and they've all shot well for me out of the box. I don't consider their price point to be in the budget category.
But to say they need nothing out of the box is a stretch....
I've owned 5 of the stainless T3 Lite's. I didn't put 1 to a fair test, but the other 4 walked when the barrel heated up. The culprit in all 4 were the pressure points located 4 inches or so in front of the receiver. They all shot better when hot after the pressure points were removed.
The best shooting Tikka I've ever seen was a 7-08 Eddie F bedded for me in a B&C stock. The same rifle shot well in the factory stock after the pressure points were removed. The rifle shot exceptionally well after the stock switch and the bedding....
This is an accurate assessment.
The fact that you can take an ADL and glass bed it into a Medalist, and still be under the price of a factory Tikka sporting Tupperware, is one that should not go overlooked IMO......
According to your math..... RARs, Vanguards, X7s, and Walmart 700s should all cost somewhere south of $250..... because the Tikka is "$250 more money for nothing" compared to all the above mentioned sticks. Inflating the Tikka street price by 15% just to make an argument seem like a woman at best.... or a Democrat. Let's talk real prices on the rifles.... then the "value" can truly be evident.
Sportsmans sells T3s on sale for $475 a couple times a year..... where can I get a Rem. 700, a trigger, a B&C Stock, some bedding material, and two hours of labor for $475? Even if I could..... I'd still have a grimmy action on a rifle that weighed 15% more that's half as accurate.... brilliant if I inderstand it correctly.
I've had to bed a Tikka or two because of 'lug issues'.... but I've had to bed EVERY Remington I've ever owned... and a couple needed the barrel removed and the factory lug indexed properly. Value is perceived, not factually based, for me..... there's tremendous value in the Tikka at sub-$550 or so. Remington's have been letting me down in the fit/finish/accuracy department over the past few years.... their 'value' has declined in my eyes.
The fact that you can take an ADL and glass bed it into a Medalist, and still be under the price of a factory Tikka sporting Tupperware, is one that should not go overlooked IMO......
The fact that you can take a ADL and have to do lots of things to it to get it on par with a Tikka has never gone overlooked. I'm not sure why you think it has.
Shod
Yes, but the difference here is that I actually have the 700s in question sitting right here. And actually have notes and targets and stuff showing what they do----right out of the box. Do you?
The whole "700s don't shoot without work" thing gets old. The last half dozen "newer models" I bought all shot great and functioned perfectly.
And the "Tikka is perfect out of the box thing" gets old also. There is pretty much no brand that is perfect out of the box on a regular basis. 25 years of buying guns at a feverish pace has told me so.....
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind (nor in yours, obviously) that you might be the most amazing and knowledgeable rifle expert the internet has ever seen. You regularly exhibit it here. Everyone should follow your trail to Nirvana (rifle speaking).
Here is your original post. Take note at this point I've never even spoken to you.
Now feel free to take a moment to kiss my a$$.
You wanna start $hit, and then cry wolf? And then question my character? That's rich.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind (nor in yours, obviously) that you might be the most amazing and knowledgeable rifle expert the internet has ever seen. You regularly exhibit it here. Everyone should follow your trail to Nirvana (rifle speaking).
Here is your original post. Take note at this point I've never even spoken to you.
Now feel free to take a moment to kiss my a$$.
You wanna start $hit, and then cry wolf? And then question my character? That's rich.
GFY...
No one is crying wolf.
Its cute how you express yourself when you can't think of anything intelligent to say. It fits right in with the description I have. And please notice that I said description (as in coming from another person) and not just a perception that I might have formed in my mind based on your charming online personality.
I think you have just spoken for every Tikka owner on this forum......
I perceive predictable accuracy, light weight, and handling to be of value..... even at the expense of a bit longer action, a few 'plastic' parts and a questionable lug design.
You perceive .5" of action, 'USA manufacturing', and an attached lug to be of value.... and accept unpredictable accuracy, questionable quality control, and nessesity of aftermarket parts to bring it up to par.
"Scoop of chocolate..... Scoop of Vanilla.... Don't waste my time....." ~Barry Shalowitz
You perceive .5" of action, 'USA manufacturing', and an attached lug to be of value.... and accept unpredictable accuracy, questionable quality control, and nessesity of aftermarket parts to bring it up to par
Yes I do consider USA mfg., a true short action, and a real recoil lug to be of value. And I find it rather odd how anyone wouldn't.
As for poor QC and questionable accuracy, I have experienced none of that. And have sampled more than my share.....
The Ruger American looks to be a great candidate for a cheap rifle for someone on a budget
I think so also. But have been reading a lot of mixed reviews. Most are claiming very good accuracy, but some are claiming rough bolts and poor triggers. Both of which can often be greatly improved without a gunsmith.
I will get a RAR one of these days. Just don't really need any more rifles.....
The lowest retail price that I've seen for the Vanguards is $500 at a Cabela's sale a couple of times each year, with their regular price being around $550.
I'm not seeing Howa 1500s price much lower, none in the $250 to $275 range.
The best NIB budget rifle is, IMHO, the Ruger American. When they were available I would have awarded that title to the Stevens 200 and Marlin X-whatever rifles.
Saw a Remington M700 ADL with a crappy scope on it at Wal-Mart for $377 a couple weeks ago, your choice of chambering. The finish was the same as is on my 870, which is to say it was dull black.
Often the best budget rifle is a gently used rifle or a closeout sale. For example, last year ago I purchased a used Ruger stainless/laminate .223 at Cabelas or $476. Dec 31 of 2013 I bought a NIB walnut/blue Ruger Hawkeye in .300WM at Dicks for $404 and tax.
The Savage 110/11 series have always been good budget rifles. I've had 8 or 10 of them over the past 35 years and all have shot well. The only one I have currently is a .223 Stevens 200 I bought new for 259.00 4 years ago. It functioned perfectly and shot everything I ran through it, both handloads and factory under 1" at 100 yards out of the box. Pretty tough to ask for more for the price. The 200 is discontinued now but the last I knew Wal-Mart still sold synthetic stocked Savages with accu-trigger for around 350.00. My brother bought one in .243 about a year ago and it shoots just as good as my Stevens. I've seen nothing from any of the newer budget rifles that would lead me to believe they're better or likely to outperform the Savages. Certainly none are as time tested/ well proven.The only Ruger American I've seen in action was certainly less than impressive as the magazine kept falling out and the stock was as flimsy as a soda straw.
It seems to me that to keep the price of a budget rifle the same as a budget rifle was 20 years ago you'd have to comprimize quality.
The dollar doesn't go anywhere close to where it used to.
As sportsman it appears that a number of folks are not accepting the lack of quality.
Those folks are buying rifles from manufacturers that are still building budget rifles but have been unwilling to compromise the quality and materials and therefore choose to continue using appropriate materials and meet the rising cost.
This forces the cost of the rifle to go up. Therefore these rifles are no longer considered budget.
These rifles that cost $150 dollars more I think are far more widely used by the budget minded sportsman and seem to weather the span of time.
Cheap budget rifles seem to come and go. It appears the rifle manufacturers have deemed to see just how much lack of quality will the general public accept.
Remington and Ruger seem to have taken the lead in this endevour.
It seems to me that to keep the price of a budget rifle the same as a budget rifle was 20 years ago you'd have to comprimize quality.
The dollar doesn't go anywhere close to where it used to.
As sportsman it appears that a number of folks are not accepting the lack of quality.
Those folks are buying rifles from manufacturers that are still building budget rifles but have been unwilling to compromise the quality and materials and therefore choose to continue using appropriate materials and meet the rising cost.
This forces the cost of the rifle to go up. Therefore these rifles are no longer considered budget.
These rifles that cost $150 dollars more I think are far more widely used by the budget minded sportsman and seem to weather the span of time.
Cheap budget rifles seem to come and go. It appears the rifle manufacturers have deemed to see just how much lack of quality will the general public accept.
Remington and Ruger seem to have taken the lead in this endevour.
Shod
Just WOW.
I guess one action length, the lack of a recoil lug, a plastic bolt shroud, a plastic magazine, tupperware stock, and enclosed receiver, all at a higher cost doesn't qualify. Yes sir, the Tikka is VERY uncompromising
I guess one action length, the lack of a recoil lug, a plastic bolt shroud, a plastic magazine, tupperware stock, and enclosed receiver, all at a higher cost doesn't qualify. Yes sir, the Tikka is VERY uncompromising
You are one HIGHLY entertaining SOB some times
2muchgun, the plastic and the Tupperware are all common to budget rifles.
If'n you are privy to Steel that is used for building actions barrels and said gun parts then you understand that Steel does have various grades resulting in anywhere from cheap to very expensive.
Tupperware and plastic are no different. If'n one is going to build a budget rifle for instance would you prefer to have plastic parts or the much more expensive polymer.
Is there even a difference?
Plastic polymer has a tensil strength of about 40 lbs where as some polymer has a tensil strength of around 2000 lbs exceeding the cheaper steel.
There is a reason why some stock forearms wobble around like a limp dik and some stand erect, hard, and ready for the task at hand.
You sir are quite clearing trying to expound on that which you are clearly clueless.
When it comes to the science of said materials you'd fair far better to sit your chunt on the couch......enjoy your super bowl Sunday......and get up occasionally to lick the window and dream of all the wares you've never been.
The synthetic used in the Tikka magazine/trigger guard/floor plate is incredibly tough stuff. I witnessed a fully loaded Tikka magazine slide off the roof of a pickup and go cartwheeling down the pavement at 55 mph last season. Other than a bit of road rash there was no damage and the magazine is still fully functional. I have serious doubts that a sheet steel or "plastic" magazine would fare as well.
I guess one action length, the lack of a recoil lug, a plastic bolt shroud, a plastic magazine, tupperware stock, and enclosed receiver, all at a higher cost doesn't qualify. Yes sir, the Tikka is VERY uncompromising
You are one HIGHLY entertaining SOB some times
2muchgun, the plastic and the Tupperware are all common to budget rifles.
If'n you are privy to Steel that is used for building actions barrels and said gun parts then you understand that Steel does have various grades resulting in anywhere from cheap to very expensive.
Tupperware and plastic are no different. If'n one is going to build a budget rifle for instance would you prefer to have plastic parts or the much more expensive polymer.
Is there even a difference?
Plastic has a tensil strength of about 40 lbs where as polymer has a tensil strength of around 2000 lbs exceeding the cheaper steel.
There is a reason why some stock forearms wobble around like a limp dik and some stand erect, hard, and ready for the task at hand.
You sir are quite clearing trying to expound on that which you are clearly clueless.
When it comes to the science of said materials you'd fair far better to sit your chunt on the couch......enjoy your super bowl Sunday......and get up occasionally to lick the window and dream of all the wares you've never been.
Shod
Please, just stop. Why do you continue to insist on proving what a fool you are?
Plastics are polymers dumba$$. They use the term polymer to trick imbeciles into thinking they are buying something "better" than just plastic. Kind of like Delrin knife scales. Bet you love those as well.
And here we were making so much progress on you not sticking your foot in your mouth or making outlandish claims you can't prove or know nothing about.
So what part of the Tikka has a tensile strength of 2000 lbs? Please do tell.
And so you know, tensile strength of plastic is determined by pulling on it, or stretching it. How tough it is has nothing to do with tensile strength, but how much energy it will absorb before it breaks. Which pretty much shows all who can read here who is truly trying to expound upon that which they are clueless.
So Tikkas are more expensive due to the polymers being more expensive than steel. Okay, I get it now.
Do me a favor, send me your Tikka bolt shroud. I'll hit it with a hammer. Then hit my 700 shroud. If mine breaks first, I'll buy you a whole new Tikka. If yours breaks first, I get a new 700.
Even your last "insult line" is plagiarized. I would tell you to come up with something original on your own, but it would be very hard to top the entertainment you already so shamelessly, albeit in intentionally, provide us with. And let's face it, you probably aren't quite up to the task.
Shodd: you are not wrong in that different polymers can have very different physical characteristics (hardness, tensile strength, etc.)
I think the problem is semantics. "Plastics" is a generic term for a material that can be molded or formed. To imply that plastics and polymers are two mutually exclusive types of materials is technically incorrect.
Not that it is particularly germane to your argument, but Cabela's is putting the RAR Ranch Rifle and RAR Predator on sale for $370 from February 5 thru 16. They are also selling a Ruger AR-556 for $630 during that same sale.
Just got done stretching her legs. Despite the OEM flat rail,it retains 21 Mils on the erector (with a 200yd 75 A-Max zero)and there's 10 more in the bank,on the windshield.
'Tis a literal breeze to do the SAS Plug & Play/Slap & Tickle for muchly extended COAL latitude. It was happy with 50,68 and (2) flavors of 75's today,with but a trigger lever removal,re-spring,bloody knuckles torque and some smooches...all from a bipod,which is a Sin. MPAJ from a ruck,it's unfhuqking real. All ammo was schit I had laying around,largely slated to Krunchentickers and as a worst case scenario baseline,for curiosity.
Have a Boyd's laminate headed my way,if only in the interest of R&D and to really see WTF as a fair shake.
There's NOTHING else even in the same book,let alone page and it'll of course be Famouser than schit and shortly.(grin)
I'm a fan of the Marlin X guns, have several of them. Very accurate out of the box and since they have almost the same barrel specs as the Savage 110 series, you can recycle most Savage 110 series barrels. For example, I have rechambered several Stevens 200 1-9" ROT 223 barrels to 22-250 on the XS7.
The bad news is that Marlin is no longer making the X guns. The good news is that, if you want one, Davidson's is closing them out for around $260 wholesale.
Just got done stretching her legs. Despite the OEM flat rail,it retains 21 Mils on the erector (with a 200yd 75 A-Max zero)and there's 10 more in the bank,on the windshield.
'Tis a literal breeze to do the SAS Plug & Play/Slap & Tickle for muchly extended COAL latitude. It was happy with 50,68 and (2) flavors of 75's today,with but a trigger lever removal,re-spring,bloody knuckles torque and some smooches...all from a bipod,which is a Sin. MPAJ from a ruck,it's unfhuqking real. All ammo was schit I had laying around,largely slated to Krunchentickers and as a worst case scenario baseline,for curiosity.
Have a Boyd's laminate headed my way,if only in the interest of R&D and to really see WTF as a fair shake.
There's NOTHING else even in the same book,let alone page and it'll of course be Famouser than schit and shortly.(grin)
It IS cheatin'.
Hint.
loaded up the 75's and 80's ,h335,with the plug and play,but it was snowing and windy all day. still chomping.
Yeah I've heard theyre not making the Marlin X's anymore. Is that a fact or internet BS? A buddy of mine just bought one the SS model for $299...shipped. IMO its a nice gun for the money!
The stainless X guns were discontinued a couple of years ago, so your friend must have purchased a new, old stock, rifle. $299 for a stainless X gun is a heck of a buy, the least that I ever paid wholesale for one was $312.50 back in 07/11.
King of budget rifles is the stainless Ruger American. All it needs is sanding open the barrel channel if it touches, and setting the trigger, no replacement parts required.
Kings of the intermediate price range is shared between Rem 700 SPS stainless, Wby Vanguard stainless, Tikka T3 stainless. But these need aftermarket parts.
Rem 700 triggers can break off, so you will need a Timney.
Vanguards need a straight classic stock, make mine a McMillan.
Tikka T3 will need a Limbsaver recoil pad if rifle is in .308 or more.
Yes, but remember that we're talking about Remington, the people who have discontinued great configurations like the 700 LVSF and 700 Ti. The people who screwed up the 260 and the SAUMs. The people who launched an O/U shotgun that nobody bought. The people who ........
If budget and performance levels are considered as one, the t3 is, IMO, the best choice...light weight,slick action w/dm, great trigger and a 3shot guarantee that gives the company plenty of insurance...i have been desperately trying to upgrade these rifles for the past three years and can not.. I do not have $2500 or so to by an entry level 7# gun with a 1/2" guaranty, but could justify buying 4 of these 1" guns, cause they can most always beat that 1", with little or no effort at less weight..my latest is a 300wsm in SS for $450 + S/I...guessing most users of this forum would consider that a budget $$ figure..
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