Anyone ever chronograph a Ruger 77 compact in 308 Win.?
I am wondering with the loss of velocity how far this rifle will effectively shoot.
Look at Hodgdon's online handgun data for 308 Winchester. It was shot with a 15" barrel. Several powders provided 2650 to 2675 fps or thereabout with 150 grain bullets. With 165's a number of powders gave mid to upper 2500's. These figures approximate good 300 Savage loads.
Anyway, what precisely do you mean by how far will it effectively shoot?
Fast enough and FAR enough-Muddy
I took my 17.5" 308 to 1000yd on many occasions...never had an issue getting there with 178 AMAX or 175 BTHP.
I could squeeze 2850 out of 155 Scenars without trying TOO hard.
These guys only lost 32 fps cutting a 26" barrel down to 18".
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/Based on what I see from others who have cut a barrel around 15-20 fps loss for each inch is typical. The problem with comparing gun "A" with gun "B", is that you can see 100-130 fps difference with barrels of the same length. That would be a bit extreme, but not unheard of. Around 25-50 fps is very common.
With that in mind, if you are comparing one gun with a 20" barrel to another with a 22" barrel the 20" barrel might well be 25-50 fps faster. Or the 22" barrel could be 100-150 fps faster. People often see the latter and conclude that a gun loses 50-75 fps for every inch the barrel is shorter. They never consider the primary reason is simply the difference between the individual guns.
For hunting a 16" barrel is plenty long enough. The problem is the nasty muzzle blast.
I'd like to know what powders people are using to get those speeds. I'm running a 20" Krieger barrel and when loading 44.3 gr of IMR 4064 (which is compressed) with a 178 AMAX at 2.800, I'm only getting 2550 fps. I find that I really have to lean on a charge of [Varget/IMR4064/RL-15] to even get over 2600 fps.
This barrel has a Winchester Sniper chamber:
NECK DIAMETER|THROAT ANGLE|FREEBORE
SAAMI|1*30|0.112
My 20's get mid 2500 with 42g Imr4895 under 168's.
For hunting a 16" barrel is plenty long enough. The problem is the nasty muzzle blast.
That, and often miserable balance. A 20 inch is plenty short enough for almost any civilian purpose, looks better, handles better, and won't blow your brains out if you take a shot in the field without ear protection.
I hate being anywhere near those short-barreled monstrosities at the range, even the .223s.
I got an average of 2555 with 165's and a max load of varget with my 77 compact. Maybe not the fastest bullet speed but sure was nice gun to pack.
I got an average of 2555 with 165's and a max load of varget with my 77 compact. Maybe not the fastest bullet speed but sure was nice gun to pack.
That, and often miserable balance. A 20 inch is plenty short enough for almost any civilian purpose, looks better, handles better, and won't blow your brains out if you take a shot in the field without ear protection.
I hate being anywhere near those short-barreled monstrosites at the range, even the .223s.
Good Lord, grandpa. I have been shooting and hunting with short barreled (<18") for years, most of them even have brakes. I have yet to have a concern about "balance," and the critters have yet to comment on how ugly they are.
I dont have an issue with the noise, or blast, and could not care less what others shooting next to me think about it.
If that guy is the one who shoots what works for him..then yeah, I am him. Brakes work...so I use them. Short barrels make my life easier...so I use them. I dont shoot to make others happy, I shoot what makes me happy.
Luckily, I rarely shoot with folks who dont share similar tastes, but on occasion I do. On those occasions..tough.
I get 2700 fps chronoed with my accuracy load in my 16 1/2" Ruger RSI Hawkeye 308 with 150gr Accubonds and Varget. Shoots around an inch at 100 yds with 2.5-8x32 Conquest, about the same at 50 yds with irons.
Like I said earlier, I was getting 2850 out of 17.5" 308 and 155s. I did have to lean on it and crunch some Varget...but it shot well.
Yeah, life is too short to have basic respect for others. Gotta love internet tough guys.
So..I should shoot a rifle that is less than optimum for my needs and wants to ensure the comfort of someone who may or may not be there? Yeah, I am gonna pass, thanks.
I have a suppressor in the wings for this rifle...guess who its not for?
That, and often miserable balance. A 20 inch is plenty short enough for almost any civilian purpose, looks better, handles better, and won't blow your brains out if you take a shot in the field without ear protection.
I hate being anywhere near those short-barreled monstrosites at the range, even the .223s.
Good Lord, grandpa. I have been shooting and hunting with short barreled (<18") for years, most of them even have brakes. I have yet to have a concern about "balance," and the critters have yet to comment on how ugly they are.
I dont have an issue with the noise, or blast, and could not care less what others shooting next to me think about it.
Well, Sparky, my point wasn't that you should care about what someone else thinks of your noisy rifle, it's that one noisy enough to be offensive to someone down the line wearing earplugs is likely pretty hard on the ears of the one shooting it in the field, as most of us still do, without protection. Balance and looks are subjective, as is the decision to run a brake and trade recoil for more noise. Go for it.
My 20's get mid 2500 with 42g Imr4895 under 168's.
That's close to my 20".
I'm getting low 2600s with 165 SGKs.
I was talking about your attitude, not your guns... a distinction that will certainly be lost on you.
I am aware that my response came off a bit short...and for that I apologize. I do grow tired of the "my way, or its stupid" attitude on this site at times. It seems that unless is a walnut stocked, 26" barreled .257 Bob, or some stainless something in a a McMillan, its useless.
If I remember correctly my former frontier ran 165 so at 2425 with LC brass and 42.0 gr 4895.
No worries my friend. I don't know why I got all bent out of shape about it. I'm a little thin-skinned today and it wasn't even directed at me lol.
No, they lost 32 fps going from 20" to 18", not 26" to 18".
Just for grins:
165 BT @ 2750 falls below 1800 fps @575 yards, zeroed @200 falls -23.08 @400
165 BT @ 2550 falls below 1800 fps @475 yards, zeroed @200 falls -27.38 @400
Even the slow one has over 1100 ft. lbs. at 500 yards.
This according to Nosler's ballistics app. 1800fps is an approximate velocity limit for reliable expansion. In other words, no big deal for most hunting.
I've cut both my Rem varmint 308s from 26" down to 20.5" and 22". They lost about 15 fps per inch with my warm handloads.
Going down from 20" to 16" I would expect to lose a bit more fps per inch, since barrel pressure is higher.
Losing 32 fps between 20" and 18" sounds about right to me.
I am wondering with the loss of velocity how far this rifle will effectively shoot.
Farther than you can effectively aim. No dis intended...
I have a 17 inch bbl '06 that I can and have pushed to better than 350 yards.. Knowing the range, the trajectory of your bullet, and a dead solid rest does the job.
I have never chronied the thing- just shot it at range to 300...checked the ballistics, etc.
I'll push the 27 inch heavy bbl '06 to 500, if I know the range and trajectory.. I ain't real adventuresome...
Hornady 165 SST/46.0/W-748....2730 20" barrel Remingtom LTR... 2635 18" barrel Ruger GSR
Sierra 168 MKBTHP/46.0/W-748....2715 20" barrel Remington LTR...2625 18" barrel Ruger GSR
I have a 16.5" Frontier but have never chronoed those loads from that rifle...
Bob
I am wondering with the loss of velocity how far this rifle will effectively shoot.
......Here is my answer for ya. At any hunting or target shooting distance you care to use the Ruger Frontier for.......Here is a link that will take away any concerns you have.
www.shootingtimes.com/long-guns/longgun_reviews_scout_102606/Scroll down to the heading "Short Barrel, Long Reach" and read the rest of the article.
Much depends on the rifle as well. I only gain 100 Fps from a 26" Remington compared to a 20" Steyr.
Never any negative comments about muzzle blast when I have the Remington 600 at the range, matter of fact, people seem to be drawn to it....
Broke 2700 with 46.0 target under 168 zmax hornady in the 20" HBÇ this morning.
Once fired FC. 2.83" coal
No pressure signs.
That would be a pretty stiff load with the lots of Varget and FC brass I've used.
46 under a 168 is the usual in WW brass weighing about 155 grains, rather than FC which usually comes in close to 180.
The Steyr's barrel are usually a bit quicker.
GM308M runs mid 2500's from the same rifle.
Slight compression at the very end of the seating stroke. Minor.
Primers slightly flattened. No cratering, no extractor scuff, easy bolt lift. Haven't mic'd primer pockets.
Not my normal load.
Loading it a bit long keeps compression down. I wouldn't run it in my M1A NM, but, its fine in the Steyr. I wouldn't use LC brass either.
Here are some real world chrono velocities using my Ruger Scout, which has a 16.5" barrel like the Ruger Compact.
2699fps, 150g BT/Varget
2625fps, Remington 150g Core-Lokt PSP (Factory rated @ 2820fps)
2296fps, 208g AMAX/Varget
2252fps, 208g AMAX/BL-(C)2
I get a fraction over 2,800 fps from a 20" Sako 85 using 150gr SST's. 45g H4895, Fed 210M, Lapua cases.
Found that the faster H4895 gives better velocity than Varget in shorter .308 barrels for similar accuracy.
In answering my own question I recalled a similar project from 20 Yrs. ago or so. I owned a Magnum Research Lone Eagle in 30.06. This pistol had a 14" barrel. The load I used was a 135 gr. Sierra Pro Hunter ( I believe was developed for the TC contender 30-30). I was using H-4895....which was a a near max load IIRC. I was getting around 2700 FPS.
Guess I answered my own question. Thanx for the responses.