A buddy of mine wants a nice hunting rifle, for deer, elk & black bear "out west." He's got the cash for a nice rifle, and has been asking me about the .280 AI. I have no experience with that cartridge, but have heard good things about it. Perhaps you could educate me a bit?

He's not (yet) a handloader. Is Nosler the only source of loaded ammo for the .280 AI?

Is there more than one version of it, and will a rifle from say, Cooper, digest ammo from Nosler?

He's looking to get near 7mm Rem mag performance, without the blast & recoil of the magnum. Not a big guy, not a young guy, but a pretty doggone good shot. He's moving away from a .300 Win mag he's been using. Looking at rifles from both Cooper & Nosler, and also considering having a custom rifle built. He handled my .30-06 700 CDL very well recently.

Any other problems he should be aware of?

Thanks, Guy

He could shoot regular 280 Remington and save the fire-formed brass for when he starts reloading.

The 280 AI will give you max performance from the 280 Rem Case without worries of pressure problem's. No matter what you read the 7mm Rem Mag will beat the 280 AI with any bullet weight, but with this said I like the 280 AI better because it is the perfect balance between case size and bullet weight in the 7mm . Today I tend to use the 7x57 more for Big Game Hunting that either the 7 Mag or 280 AI. The older you get the simpler hunting and rifles get. You learn that you just don't need big cases of powder to kill most big game animals.

The biggest advantage of a 280 AI over a regular .280 is realistic SAMMI specs.

For this reason along I'd stay away from the standard .280.

<a href="https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/9373069/Searchpage/8/Main/654336/Words/%2B280ai/Search/true/280/280AI_Pros/Cons?#Post9373069">280ai</a>

How about a 270? Much easier to find ammo. Not sure how much real world difference he would see.

I've done well with a couple of 280s. My first was 742 I got really cheap 30 years ago because he didn't know what it was. The second was a Mountain Rifle 10 years later that has been great. The plain 280 works fine.

The 280ai is a very nice cartridge and I enjoy shooting mine. However, I would not recommend it to a non handloader since the factory ammo options are very limited. He could buy reduced recoil factory ammo for the 300 win and essentially have a 30-06 but that is not as fun as getting a new rifle.

If the goal is to reduce blast and recoil then a 270, 308 or 7-08 would be a step change down from a 300win depending on the weight of the rifle.

If he gets into reloading then 280ai or 6.5-284N would be great options.

Winner!


He's not a reloader, his heirs likely won't be either, MOST loonies know there are better ways to get the same level of performance.

Mike

The quote didn't work

Buy a .270

There's only 2 7mm's worth a schit and 280AI aint one of them. Put together a 7-1/2# 7-08 or 8# 7RM and roll. Lotsa factory ammo, decent supply of components. Don't know why a guy that doesn't want to fight a 300 WM would think a lighter 280AI isn't going to be a bit snappy.

Keep it simple.

As much as I love the .280AI, I could not recommend it for a non-reloading, traveling hunter.

The 7 MM Magnum would be a much better choice for him.

There is no hunting I have ever intended that could not be satisfactorily accomplished with a 280 Remington. I have several rifles in 280 Rem and one in 280 AI. I prefer the 280 AI. It can easily drive a 140 gr to 3200 fps. That is plenty fast enough for any hunting of the lesser Big Game critters.

Not a fan of a 7 Rem Mag.

Tell him to buy a 223 and a 308 / 7-08 in a pair of Kimber Montanas or Remington sporters or mountain rifles if you can find them. Factory ammo will be easy to find and he won't be lacking any killing power either.

Just my opinion though. For what its worth I have a 280 AI custom built by Jim Borden on one of his custom Timberline actions that I love, but I handload and the extra costs are worth it to me in fun.

That's one way to look at it. The other way would be, the .280 AI has more ass than the 7-08, and less recoil than the 7RM but will do most anything the RM will, albeit a little slower. I suppose you could say the 7-08 will do most anything the AI will do, albeit a little slower, too.

My 7-08 is 6 1/2 lbs., by the way, and my Mashburn was 8 1/2 but I sold it.

If he's not a handloader, wants a 7 mm., and doesn't want the 7 RM, I'd go with the .280 Rem. Either that or bite the bullet and stock up on Nosler 280 AI ammo. which is expensive.

I like the AI, it's very versatile if you handload. 120's for deer and 150s-175s for bigger stuff. I've loaded and shot my share of magnums including standard belted mags., Wby's, WSMs, and wildcats, and still have some.

These days I find myself coming to the conclusion that there's not much that can't be done with the .308 and '.06 parent cases.

What kind of velocity will the 280AI do realistically with 160's and a 22-24" barrel? Not what the load books say, but chronographed velocities from real rifles?

As other have stated, if he's not planning to handload, then I'd recommend the .270. My next rifle may very well be a .280AI. I really like the cartridge, but then again, I roll my own ammo.

I just bought a Kimber Mtn. Ascent-.280AI and installed a Swaro Z3-x9 in sts Talley QDs.

I loaded my first ammo yesterday, using Magpro and Don at AA Powder told me on the phone that I should get 3000 fps-mv, maxed.

Dunno, too rainy to shoot today, but, will know more within a few days when it dries a little.

So far, I LIKE this rig and with the 160NPs as above, it should do the business.

I like the 280AI and hate the 270 but if that was my friend I'd direct him toard a 270, 308, 30-06, or 7 RM all of which are substantially easier to shoot than the 300 WM depending upon how they fit the shooter.

Non-reloading traveling Hunter does not equal 260, 7-08 or 280 (AI'd or not).

Nosler is currently the only place for factory 280 AI.

I have extensive experience with the .280AI and I like it very much. I think it's just about perfect for western hunting. But, I'm a reloader and a rifle loony. I believe your friend would be much better off with a .270 or a 7RM. A non-reloader will be at serious disadvantage with what is essentially a loony's round. Anyway, that my not so humble opinion.

In my 22" barrel I get 2966fps with 160gn Accubonds over 61gn of Rel 22.

My 7mm Remington propels 175's at the same velocity from a 26" barrel but the Ackley is chambered in a Featherwight Model 70 while the Rem is a standard Model 70 and a pound more in weight.
John

"not (yet) a handloader" strongly suggests the .280 AI is NOT the right cartridge for him. A standard .280 Rem would be a much better choice. For that matter, and for his purposes, it is hard to argue against a .270, .7mm RM or .30-06 in a long action. Is he aware that many 7mm RM loads recoil about the same as and often less than .30-06 loads?

My 22" barreled .280 Rem easily pushes 140g Barnes TTSX and North Fork SS over 2940fps. This will be my antelope and/or elk rifle this fall. For a non-handloader, though, I have a hard time recommending a .280 Rem over a .270, .30-06 or 7mm RM due to ammo selection and availability. For the most utilitarian cartridge the .30-06 still wins.

Not sure he'd want a basic rifle that cost $3.25 per shot with factory ammo. He won't be shooting much at that price...I bet. You could easily getting into reloading equipment at that price.

I think this decision could be a lot more complex than it needs to be.

The guy is not a hand loader,so he is likely pretty practical and would benefit from a wide variety of commonly available factory ammo so that he can find something that shoots well in his rifle.

I could scour gun emporiums from New England to Casper(have) and further; only the very best stocked will have 280 ammo,and I bet even fewer would have even a box or two of 280AI. Scratch one for the 7 Rem Mag.

If I blindfolded him he couldn't tell the difference in recoil and blast between a 7 Rem Mag and a 280AI in a thousand rounds.The "recoil and blast" of a 7 Rem Mag are mythical dragons in a rifle of reasonable weight. 4-6 gr of powder simply do not make or break a cartridge on that basis.

The 280AI is a cartridge for far gone rifle nuts(SuperT nailed this) obsessed with tiny differences (I get it being a loony myself).

But I can pop into a gun store and "buy" factory 7 Rem Mag ammo whose ballistics are identical to the 280AI;and if I choose to load my own 7 Rem Mag ammo,can easily equal or exceed what a 280 or 280 AI can do.

As an all round, go anywhere BG cartridge in that category, the 7 Rem Mag beats all comers at their own game from the standpoint of ubiquity,ballistics,popularity,and availability....not to mention terminal performance.

Easy choice.

If he wants one, he should get one.

$53 for 140gr Accubonds at 3150 don't suck too bad either...and they are on the shelf at Sportsmans.

Standard .280 still fits and goes bang. Lots of that stuff on shelves here too.

Kimber doesn't make a Montana in 7mag, which is why I ended up with the AI.

Gotta agree with Bob on this.

For a non-handloader, the 7RM is a much better choice.

In fact, the 270Win is too.

But then again, if he shoots a few boxes of factory ammo a year the 280AI won't cost him a lot more to shoot.

Since this person does not handload,just get a .30/06 and go forth and kill game.

I am a long time fan and user of the 280 A.I. It is without peer as a deer caliber IMHO. That being said, I agree with those that have said it is best suited for hand-loaders. Limited factory ammo is a real problem for the traveling hunter. I believe your non hand-loader friend would be better served by a 270, 280 or 30.06. The 280 A.I is not hard to load for and fire-forming brass is easy, just a little time consuming. If he is interested in becoming a hand-loader, I highly recommend the 280 A.I. I had a 270 and 7mm Mag before my 280 A.I. and would never go back.

Hate to push a 270 on someone but it would be hard to see either 7MM as much different than the 270, except for ammo availability and price. The 270 is one of the cartridges that is always on sale and much cheaper than either of the 7MMs. Premium ammo is closer but for most purposes the cheap stuff will do fine in the 270. I own a 270 I have never shot and only bought cause it was cheap. Have 2 7mm mags though

270 would work great as well

For a non handloader traveling to hunt out West the 270 Winchester makes a lot of sense recoil, ammo supply and effect wise.

280 Rem ammo is not out there. The 280 AI is dead at the starting gate and just for handloaders and AI guys.

Get a 270.

If the guy wants a .280 AI then that is what he oughtta get.

First though, if he's your buddy, get him started on handloading.

The usual bullsh*t from this character,S-99 whom I will wager has never hunted **out West** in his entire career as a total dipsh*t.

I HAVE light, custom .270s, three P-64 fwts, I HAVE std. 280 Rems,, three superb custom Brno 21Hs-HVA rifles. I HAVE a custom U-L 7-08, Remmy sts Seven and I HAVE two light, custom 7x57 rifles.

I handload for ALL of these and never need factory ammo, that is for novices and imbeciles who "forget" their ammo; it is largely a gunrag myth.

I LIKE the .280AI, can afford to indulge this and I will shoot more big game next autumn than this asshat has or will in his lifetime.

That last line made me chuckle. Please regale use with tales from your recent successful hunts.

I have never understood why people don't like the 270 Win. I have hunted with the 270 since 1973 and have never felt I was under gunned at any range for Big Game. If you put the 270 Win down, then you probly have never hunted with one. I have mutable rifles in different cal's and still chose the 270 most of the time when heading to the field. If you don't like the 270 that is find, but it is your loss. When I die I will still own a 270 Win. which is the best thing to ever come out of the Winchester brain trust. I have never owned or seen the need for a standard 280 Rem. as long as the 270 exist.

I am one of those "imbeciles" that has forgotten their ammo in one case and arrived at hunting camp with the wrong ammo in another. The forgotten ammo wasn't a big deal as we (Big Bro, some of my daughters and myself) were just headed to the shooting range, but the problem wasn't discovered until we were at the range ready to load up. An 80-minute round-trip back home for ammo wasn't in the cards. Fortunately Big Bro had brought a lot of .45ACP so we shot pistols rather than my rifles.

The case where I forgot my ammo was more problematic. Actually I had the ammo for the two rifles I had ***originally*** intended to take, but a last-second change in one of the rifles left me at hunting camp with the correct ammo for only one. This time the round-trip time to go home for ammo was about 10 hours and definitely out of the question.

The point is that stuff happens. In a pinch I'd much rather try to find .30-06 or 7mm RM or .270 than .280 Rem, whether standard or AI. Chances are good one of my hunting buddies could loan me a few rounds of the more common stuff.

Another good choice for the non-handloader is the 270 WSM or 7mm WSM

If he wants a .280AI he should get one but.......

With 150's it will do nothing that a 30-06 with a 150 will do out to 300 yards for a heck of a lot cheaper per shot for the non handloader

Yup...or a 270 running 150s. I'm a handloader and 280ai is on my short list, but for the situation of your non-handloader friend a 270 or 30-06 are all I can suggest. The middle of no where stores I've been to in Idaho usually will have these two calibers in them if needs be. It's rare to see any others there, although you will see 7mag often. I've never seen 280 anything in the small shops. I think I can recall once seeing 308.

Thanks for all the input guys.

I hunt mostly with a .25-06, or often with the .30-06, have a pair of Rem 700's. They've served me just fine and I've been handloading for a long time.

Why he's so enthusiastic about the .280 AI in particular eludes me, but he is, and it's his money.

I thought I'd explore the issue a little farther here and on the Nosler forum, in case there was something I'd missed. Strongly suspect that he'll have a very nice .280 AI on his hands soon... Despite my urging him towards the .270 or .30-06 instead.

Regards, Guy

Agree for simplicity and for ammo availability at reasonable price.

DF

Just to be very clear, my comments above were in response to S-99 ONLY, I just get a bit tired of his inane BS about places, situations which he has no experience of.

The issue about forgetting ammo, is, IMO, rather overdone and IF one does this, the chances of finding the same load which you sighted with is pretty slim.

In decades of packing all my gear-supplies for extended solo stints working in wilderness here in BC, I learned HOW to do so in a manner that precluded "forgetting" stuff I would need.

So, for North American hunting, at least, I consider the ammo issue pretty minor.

BTW, I LOVE the .270Win. but, the comments about effective uses and recoil by S-99 are just BS, there is NO real difference.

Hope that clarifies things, no offence meant.

When I wanted a Ruger #1, nothing but a #1 would suffice.

Scratched that itch (with a .280 Rem), then sold the #1 because it really didn't suit my hunting needs. No regrets. Your friend may discover himself in essentially the same situation, with a rifle that scratches an itch but doesn't really solve any issues.

But, hey - its OK to scratch the itch.

Now I have a new Ruger Hawkeye All-Weather .280 Rem which suits my needs much better. And I have an itch for a #1 in .45-70 to pair with my Marlin 1895...

If that's the case, let him buy what he wants. I'd tell him to buy a box of ammo for every suitcase/bag, etc. that he's traveling with just in case so that he has ammo regardless of what he forgot to grab at the house that is 500 miles away during the hunt.

I wonder how many guys that post on this forum would themselves not scratch an itch? Not many--unless it's your mother posting under your name.

Savage, you certainly would--you bought that damn Brno after all.

He can always sell it...it's not a marriage.

Did buy some factory Nosler ammo in both 280AI and 6.5x284 and they do load it right with the program. The 6.5 is actually just a tad warm for mine. The Nosler 280AI case deserves a look. Out of my SAAMI spec 280AI M-700, the Nosler case I weighed last night holds a full 5 grains more water than a standard 280 Remington case.

Have a 6 pounder all up and it does get a bit snappy...another at 7.5# all up is pleasant to shoot.

Thanks! That's what I was looking for. My 22" T3 7mm RM only did around 3000 with 160's (book handloads), so the 280AI looks pretty good there.

My one problem with the 7mm Rem Mag, as a handloader, was brass life; don't remember what brands I used but never got more than 3-4 firings before cases started to crack just above the belt.

If he wants a 280AI, go for it. Can buy Nosler ammo or just run plain 280 in a pinch

I get 2950fps out of a 25"barrel with Nosler factory loads. I've had 2 280AIs and the accuracy with Nosler factory loads has been excellantwith velocities that I find hard to match with reloads.

How many people on this forum only have one rifle in one caliber, NOT very many.

In the real world the 7mm Super Magnums won't do much that the 7mm Rem magnum does. Does that 7mm magnum really do anything that 99% of the time a 280ai can do? Does that 280ai do anything that a plain jane 280 will do? Damn, does that 7x57 do anything much better than a 7mm-08 will do in 99.9% of real world conditions?

Well [bleep], if we follow that logic than why not just get a .308. That'll do 99.99% of what the 7mm-08 does? Why the hell did anyone ever even bother making a different caliber/cartridge.


Go buy a .280ai because you can, not because it makes a whole lotta sense.

you need to start sizing off the shoulder instead of the belt and your 7 mag cases will last much longer

Exactly, that was my point!

2 words

Kim

Ber

I used to have a similar problem with IMR4831 and 160g bullets. Dropping back a bit on the powder charge helped significantly. Or you may have to use different powders to get the velocity and case life you want. I get 3000fps easily using H1000 and H4831SC with North Fork 160g bullets.


There is a burr or something in my chamber that leaves light, half-inch long scratches in the cases. By counting the scratches I can accurately determine how many times a case has been chambered. Last time I had a case start to separate there were 18 such scratches.

In all honesty, it's probably best that you didn't talk him out of a .280 AI. I've seen guys buy something at the urging of friends, who sincerely had their best interests at heart. In nearly every instance, the guy eventually ended up buying what he really wanted in the first place. He just took a more expensive route to get there, via the practical detour.

I personally don't put much stock in the "traveling hunter" argument for cartridge choice. It's talked about quite a bit, but how many people have actually had a hunt saved because of it exclusively? For those who have, what limitations, if any, did the borrowed ammo have on your hunt? If I was that worried, I would ship some extra ammo out ahead of my trip and have it waiting on me. If the perfect storm erupted and I found myself without ammo by some freak occurrence, I'd get on my phone and have some overnighted to my current location. At most, I lose a day. Bad, but not detrimental. There are certainly some extreme scenarios that could be offered up to counter my points, but so could a hundred other crazy events that a guy would never see coming.

Once upon a time, one very early campfire participant met one idiot how owned a .270, (perhaps a brother or father-in-law) and at that point he decided all .270 owners are gay. He's been spreading this BS for over 55k posts.

Truth is, on this subject your position is much closer to reality then his.

An astute reader of the Campfire would get a 280 Ackley over a 270 based solely on this post alone.

I'd agree with that.

Blind Squirrel.

I suppose I'm different......these days it's spent on out of state and Africa hunting vs new rifles that do nothing different that my old rusty one

I tend to think how and why I spend my money as I get older....that being said a rifle tends to hold value if it is of quality build

Some tend to do just because

It takes all kinds....some buy rifles and shoot some just buy and pet others hunt

Don't have it any more, but I was mostly using Re22 for 3000 fps with Nosler 160gr Partitions.

I never sized enough to bump the shoulder back (mostly just partial sized with a FL die), but I seem to remember the case body still getting sized down quite a bit near the belt. It may have been a matter of a tight die and large chamber overworking the brass, I couldn't say for sure at this point.

+1

On this one I would agree with Savage_99. Might be the first time, but there it is!

I hunt a lot in western Montana. I've been paying attention what ammo I commonly see in Walmart, mom and pop gun shops, etc. You can almost guarantee you will find 270, 30-06, 300 WinMag and 7mm RM anywhere you go, big store or little.

Most of the serious, active, experienced hunters-gun nuts and wilderness workers I know and have known in my 50+ years of both hunting and bush work are handloaders.

These folks sight their rifles with specific handloads as my 30+ big game rifles are and should one *forget* his ammo, it would not be much help to go to some store in Hudsons Hope or Wardner, BC to find more, inevitably factory stuff that would not shoot to his sights without a protracted sightin that is, in most cases, not available.

So, all in all, the issue of forgetful hunters in most western Canadian venues is more myth than reality. I keep my ammo IN my rifle cases and have NEVER forgotten it in five decades.

Those who change rifles almost as often as gonch might, but, this is more inexperience and lack of proper planning-packing than anything concerning cartridge choice.

Whatever, I will take my .280AI and light, custom, CRF .308Norma, to places in BC where I have taken my .270s and .338WMs and not lose sleep over ammo as I pack carefully.

Never understood the argument for a cartridge based on store availability when out of town. Has anyone here actually lost theirs? Ran out while hunting? I haven't in the 22 years since I started hunting.

Deer camp in 2006.......NJ guy forgot his ammo

Elk camp 2010......friend forgot his ammo in Oklahoma

I know of someone who forgot his ammo on a week long hunting trip and never missed it. Just as well considering how much beer he took along on the trip.

Never had airlines lose your baggage? Lucky you.

When it finally happens to you and there isn't a box of 280AI within 300 miles, then maybe you'll understand.

I've lost ammo while flying.

Has he actually shot the 7mm RM, because I think the recoil is pretty mild in an 8.25 - 8.50 pound rifle with a 1" recoil pad.

Understood, but, if in much of remote BC, you will not have a store within many miles, so, I would maybe send spare ammo ahead to my host?

Carryon?

African hunting came to mind with this thread

A .280AI with 160 grn Accubonds would be a great PG killer but land in SA after 3 planes and 20k miles without your ammo and you will be borrowing a rifle and buying ammo from your PH

In this case scenario you can't mail ammo ahead to your host

Amen.

Murphy's Law does exist for folks who must travel to hunt.

Who's to say the rifle isn't lost? What if the ammo is packed with your binocs, pack and tent that are also gone? If an airline loses your bag, ammo is likely only a small part of the reason your hunt is screwed.

I have had my gear bag obviously gone thru by whom I assume to have been TSA people. Perhaps to check if I had more ammo than allowed. Perhaps for some other reason. However, just because someone left everything in the past, doesn't mean the next one may do so in the future.

Your bag may arrive, but that doesn't mean everything you put in it will.

280AI to me is a reloading proposition, and not that much more gained than a regular 280. Each to their own, I have bought to scratch the itch several times. Daughter just got married and is moving away and asked for her favorite deer rifle, A Steyr in 6.5X57. Not anything but a reloading rifle. It's the one she knows and has used. So I loaded the 180 cases that I had. If I was telling someone who did not reload it would be a 308, 30-06 or a 7mm Mag. Lots of options for just about anything one would want to shoot at.

Just to throw some more info into this. Buddy just built a 280 Ackley on a 24" Model 70. Nosler Custom 140 AB's ran 3040 through his rifle during break in. They were advertised around 3100-3150 I think. Seems like a ton of expense to match a 270 Winchester with a 130..

It's hard to beat the 270 Winchester for the guy that want's to buy some different kinds of ammo to see what works best. A slew of good rifles that almost anybody could find something that "fit" them as well.

That's one way to make an expensive 270.

If you have nothing in that caliber range it could be good. If you any anything either side of it it will be a struggle to justify it.

I have 7x57 and 7mm Remington and a passion for the .30/06 so I find it interesting, but hardly justifyable as the '06 can equal the velocity for similar weights, the Remington can beat it by 200fps and the Mauser is damn nice to shoot and both difficult and very costly to find anything it cannot kill.
John

Was your buddy running standard 280 loads in it? If that's all you get out of a 280AI...it'd be a no-go for me. Heck, Alliant claims a 150btsp will clock 3,030 with RL26 out of a 270win. If that holds true there's really no reason to go with a 280ai if you want to shoot 140-150s. Nosler claims 3 different loads they ran were over 3,000fps for a 140 grain bullet in a 270win. Now I can still see a debatable advantage if you want to shoot the heavier 7mm bullet possibilities out of a 280AI.

Out shooting my Montucky .280 Ackley this morning, very happy with the platform/cartridge combo.

After confirming drops at 450 and 650 meters, according to Applied Ballistics, I am getting 2975 fps with a 168gr Berger Classic.

5 mils to 770m with a 100m zero.

Not bad for an expensive 270.

That's sounding more like it!

Nice...

Powder?

Amen.

Same here. Highly agree, especially on the never go back part.

Survey says: #1 answer!

If I am carrying one of my hand loaded rifles there is no commercial ammo that will shoot accurately in that gun.

I own one rifle that is accurate with commercial ammo & I never carry it afield.

Cons...? None I can think of. Pros.....just about everything about that rifle/cartridge combo.

I think the 280AI is a pretty good cartridge,sandwiched as it is, between a 280 and a 7 Rem Mag.(Which is a pretty narrow niche itself).

But can anyone tell me what's so magical about it,and what it does (in the same action and barrel length) that a 7 Rem Mag doesn't?

Don't get me wrong I understand the "want" part when it comes to rifle cartridges,which is reason enough to get one. But some of the claims here leave me perplexed.

I usually avoid kicking hornet's nests but figured I would make an exception here. My curiosity has the best of me.

To me, approaching both my 69th birthday, major skeletal-neuro. issues and a love of mountain hunting, usually solo by choice, it is a *no brainer*.

I just spent 4Gs on a Kimber MA, Talley sts. QDs, Swaro Z3-3x9, Redding dies, Nosler brass and whatever. I have scores of fine, light custom *mountain rifles* and ONE aspect of this convinced me to spend scarce bux on another rifle.

This rig, in .280AI, gives me the maximum power in the lightest, STS CRF rifle available and with the 160NP at 3K, MV, kit will whack any quadruped in BC that I wish to whack.

I spent almost as much on a lovely custom HVA, etc. .280 Rem. in 2013, but, it is STILL several ozs heavier than this Kimber.....and with 59 years of packing loads in BCs mountains, every ounce counts to me.

YMMV, JMHO.......

Bob, it feeds, well, worse. Has a single source of brass (I acknowledge the crowd fascinated with fire forming as some kind of I shoot more than everyone else badge) and it's popular on the internet.
There are three strikes if I have ever seen them. :-)

SNAP: What.... no 4X Conquest?

Sounds to me like you bought the Kimber platform as much as the cartridge.

I understand...I have a Kimber Montana 7/08 which is a "toy"....feels more like a Loomis bass rod than a rifle,it's so light!



Pathfinder we will discuss.

You and I have chatted on this subject before, so please forgive me if I repeat myself. I am an unabashed fan of the 280AI and have been so for nigh on 30 years now, having shot untold numbers of game with it. I love it because is does come close to the 7mm RM without the blast (which you respectfully disagree on and I understand). I get 3200+ fps with my 140 grain Noslers and if that ain't close to 7mm RM velocities I'm a Chinese rocket pilot. I also get significantly longer case life out of my handloads...pretty much 4x vs 10-12x in comparison. I'm on the fence regarding felt recoil....I think the AI is less, but if a person says they can't feel the difference, I don't get twisted about it. I have found it to be very very easy to handload and get little bitty groups with very little work.

But most of all, I just wanted it. And that was enough to justify the purchase. Besides, it is an extremely sexy looking round...looks all business in my eyes!

That being said, if the OP does not handload, then by all means NO....get a 30/06, 270, 7mm RM, etc...the factory loadings of the AI are extremely anemic in my opinion and he would gain nothing over a standard 280.

I have a 280 AI and a 270! I wish I had 2 270s instead of a 280 AI and a 270!

Shod

Easily arranged.....

For me, it was platform. No Kimber Montana in 7mm rem mag.

So I took the closest I could get. Same powder, same bullets.
Pleasantly surprised by the performance. It turns out that my accuracy load for my 7mag was 168Berger Classic hunters at 2975fps.
There was more in the tank, but none more accurate.

I run the same speed now with the Montucky. With 7gr less powder, 2 inches less barrel, and 2 1/2lbs less rifle weight.

I never in a million years thought I would own a .280AI, til they chambered it in the Montana.

There seems to be two lots of 140 gr Nosler factory loads out there and one is significantly slower.

I think a WSM will outperform any 280!

My Kimber 7mm WSM Montana weighs 7 pounds, 1 ounce with it's 4.5-14X Leupold VX3 in steel mounts!

The .280 Rem is one of the best cartridges ever invented, and you don't have to trim the AI very often. If it wasn't for great marketing and the decision by Winchester to provide free .270's to the most prolific writer of the time, the .270 would be extinct.

This should settle it for everyone, get a280 AI!

I have one..And every time i do anything serious my 7mm has a belt on it..The 280AI is a nice cart, but guys like me trying to get 30 cal mag performance out of a 7mm are bias toward the mag 7's,IMO there is no downside to going with the 7 mag over the 280AI.



Some argue the 280AI is the best use for 30-06 hulls, i disagree..best use is 6/06.

rosco that has been my view of the world as well. Taking a step up above the standard cases with the heavy 7mm bullets I always wanted more capacity.

No, Bob, I actually put a lot of careful, esperienced thot into the decision to spend that coin at my age on the system I built based on the Kimber MA.

I had purchased a second Dakota 76-.338WM last summer and love it for most walking hunts as it is very light, Magnaported and really nice to shoot, even with my 250NP buster loads....but, I am now pretty gimped and still long for the mountains of my youth in the Kootenays.

Soooo, after several very experienced guys here, *sheepists* and other such rather weird types, kept telling me how well their MA-.280AIs performed, I thot, WTF, one more rifle......you know how THAT goes.....

I am starting to sell most of my guns, not easy here in Canada, where relatively few will spend the $$$$ to buy P-64 Alaskans, etc. and seem to consider a Tikka T3 the ultimate hunting rifle -blech-, but, if this Kimber works as I suspect it will, I am going to buy an exact mate to it and then use my Dakota .338s and the Kimbers for all my hunting, except coastal Blacktail Deer, for which I have two fine custom pieces in .308Win. and 7-08Rem.

I have even considered modding the MA with adding a STS floorplate from a Stainless Select, Kimber told us they would ship just that bottom metal and STS Ruger front sight plus a Redfield *Ace in the Hole* on a spare black Talley rear base.

This, would be a less than 7 lbs, all up, superb *mountain rifle* and in one of the VERY few *wildcat* rounds I have ever thot worthwhile.

I spend a lot of time and considerable coin refining my gear as it helps me to do at least some of what I have done for so many years, lighter really helps at this stage of life.

I just got my 280 AI back from the smith. I had it build heavier specifically for LR shooting. That being said, I compared my expected loads to my 30/06 loads and they are basically the same animal.

I'm a looney in my early 30's as well. That's why I chose the 280AI. If I was not, I'd go 30/06 and be set for anything. 30/06 is more than capable for just about any type of hunting the average guy will do. AT 500 yards, the 10 MPH drift difference is 2 inches. Energy is within 50 FPE and velocity is 100 FPS or so.

Also, to put it into perspective, I set a rifle up and gave it to my brother in law. I chose 7mm-08 for the ease/convenience.

Nothing magical. The 280 AI gives me the capability to drive 140's & 150's to velocities that most of my commercial barreled 280's will not attain. That is an honest 3200 fps with 140's & an honest 3000+ fps with 150's. I don't need or want 7mm Mag velocities in my 284 caliber cartridge choices.

I love my 300 WSM's. It supercedes all of my other hunting rounds and is my go-to hunting choice. I simply wanted a 280 AI, nothing more.

I think we can conclude that anyone who owns a 280AI isn't going to say "oh, its a piece of schit", and the same can be said for any other pet calibers/rigs.

Well, except for a few chuckleheads.

Reloader/SNAP: It all sounds logical to me!

I have one and it doesn't offer anything over what a .30/06 will do as velocities are equal for bullet weight at least in equal 22" barrels.

The .30/06 is however, a more suitable choice when the game gets larger as it begins to shine when the bullets start to get heavy for caliber where game is larger than deer.

I look at the 280A1 as a substitute for the .270 as it has a larger bullet selection. The flaw in that argument is that there is no animal suitable for one that cannot be taken with the other.
John

There is NO game animal here in northern-western Canada, that a .30-06 is superior to with any bullet weight over a .280AI, none.

Actually, the .280s-.270 are a bit flatter and kick a bit less and WILL KILL Elk, Moose and Grizzly very nicely using appropriate bullets....as will the .30-06, of course.

You really need a 24 inch tube to get what the .280AI can deliver and also should use 150-160 bullets, IMO.

Snap
All true.
But if you want 150-160 grain bullets and they both can provide same, how is less caliber an advantage when modern bullets that defy SD theories such as the TTSX's exist and may be applied?
John

BTW - last I heard from my buddy, after he tried my .30-06, was that he had stopped looking at .280 AI rifles, and was strongly considering a .30-06 for his purposes.

Not a handloader. Going to be doing more elk hunting, and has a plains game trip coming up in the next year.

I'm sure that he'll buy a good quality rifle. Was still looking hard at Cooper, he seems to really like their rifle.

Thanks for all the info on the .280 AI though!

Regards, Guy

Based on the original post, I believe the most sensible outcome was obtained. That could be a first, at least for some time.

GuyM -
It is easy to get enamored with the idea of a new gun and cartridge, even if same is not particularly practical. Often, as time is available to consider the options, practicality will eventually win out. It sounds like that is what happened here.

I think your friend is making a wise decision if he goes with the .30-06 instead.