As I get into my last 10 or so years of hunting deer, I want to treat myself to nice rifle.

I am considering a Cooper Model 54 Excalibur chambered in 7mm-08. My question to folks here is what is your experience with these rifles? I am going to spend $2000+ on this rifle and would like a true assessment.

Thanks folks!

Dave

What would you like to know? My examples from Cooper are geared toward varmint hunting (Model 21 and 22), so I can't tell you anything about the repeaters specifically. I will say that I have been very happy with my rifles. The fit, finish and accuracy have met all of my expectations. Mine are honest 1/2 MOA or better rifles, but that's not a huge stretch for a varmint rifle designed to ride sandbags.

Heliman I have two model 52 coopers in 25/06 AI and 280 and a model 54 in 260 on order. Both are excellent shooters with very good triggers and no problems with feeding or ejecting a fired round. If I could change anything on mine I would like to see them a little lighter but they balance well and both have 26" barrels so some of the weight is my own doing. If you get one i am sure you will like it.

I don't have a 54 but do have two 52's, one is a 25-06 and the other a 30-06. As said the 52's are a little heavy but my understanding is that the 54 is about a pound less weight which would be great.

Now for performance my two rifles shoot most loads into 3/4" three shot groups and some much less. My 30-06 has put five (5) 168 gr federal premium match factory loads into 5/8".

Coopers are shooters for sure.

I have a 54 Classic in 308, it's a fine rifle with a great trigger, u won't be disappointed.

I haven't placed an order yet, but the comments here reflect what I have already heard regarding these rifles. I am debating whether to order the classic stock or the cheek rest comb. I had a Kimber Montana and liked the classic stock. Decisions--decisions.

Dave

Coopers are a lot of gun for the buck, custom level performance from a production rifle. I would think they'd hold their value better than a custom.

DF

Hellman,

I have the exact rifle you describe.





It shoots great with 120 gr. TTSX's, 120 gr. Nosler BT's and 140 gr. Partitions. In this particular rifle I've not tried any others as those three will do all I need. This is my second Excaliber in this chambering. (First one a blued model) It shot great also. The only complaint I have, and I'm not really complaining, is the harder bolt lift encountered with the three lug bolt. It weighs 7 lbs. 1 oz. with an FX II 6x36 installed. I like it. They are nice rifles.......

THAT..... Is exactly what I want! Beautiful rifle. Thanks for the pic!

Dave

Safety is a tad small is the only complain I can think of? It didn't bother me. I plan to buy another Cooper down the road.

I have a 54 in .270; a bit heavy, maybe even a little bulky. A 52 in 6mm Rem. is somewhat lighter. However, these rifles are well built and shoot so well that it's easy to overlook any perceived shortcomings.

I agree with you about the hard bolt lift with the 3 lug design. It would be very difficult to cycle for a follow-up shot if you were shooting off hand.

Another view:

120 gr. Nosler BT:

1[I[URL=http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/rugershooter1/media/8D4BE37E-1B43-46D7-A79E-4FC6D9C3A21F-1376-000001E3552C17C7.jpg.html]MG]http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums...E-4FC6D9C3A21F-1376-000001E3552C17C7.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
40 gr. partition:

Sorry about the last two picture posts. Don't know how I screwed it up. The top pic is with 120 gr. Ballistic Tips and the 2nd pic is with 140 gr. Partitions. I know..........three shot groups, but it will do it over and over and over.

That's the only thing that's kept me from owning a Cooper in the Excalibur. Would love to have one but the stock is far too unwieldy for my liking.

That is a concern. My Kimber weighed about 6 pounds. A delight to carry. But not the accuracy I wanted.

Dave

Have a 22 Western Classic in the 6.5 Swede that shoots wonderfully but it is bulky. The back half of the stock is pretty nice but the front half could be about half what it is in length and width to make it perfect. It does shoot very well and is not finicky at all.

i have a 54 wood classic in 260. love it in all respects: esp trigger, accuracy and balance. advised a new hunter friend what to buy for his first deer hunt 2 years ago and he bought exactly what you are proposing. loves it too, and his brother who is a lifetime navy seal shot it and also strongly affirmed it. synthetic stock a bit bulky tho, and i'd prefer a larger safety. i like my wood classic stock.

buy w no fear--you'll never be sorry

My first post here but have "been looking" for quite a while. I owned a Cooper 52 Classic in 25-06 and currently own a Cooper 52 Custom Classic in 30-06. I sold the former because I wasn't crazy with the caliber. I also splurged when I bought the Custom Classic with the Swarovski Z6.

I looked at virtually every custom and semi-custom rifle out there and for the price, the Cooper IMO is the finest rifle you can buy. Target rifle accuracy with old school good looks. My 30-06 shoots like a laser beam. They're fairly heavy, manly rifles with a medium weight barrel. Every year I browse other brands and have been tempted to get a Kimber Montana. But I know a Cooper will shoot straight out of the box and now that I'm used to their feel, I think I'll stick with them. I'd like to get an Excalibur next, most likely in 30-06 as well.

I'll post my sighting in targets for you separately.

[img:center]http://imgur.com/JoccN7y[/img]

Duke76, welcome to the Campfire.

That's a 3 shot group at a lasered 104 yards. I never had to move the windage after installing the Talley mounts. They perfectly lined up horizontally. I only had to adjust elevation.

one more pic for good measure (I really like Cooper rifles if you can't tell!) Served me well on a Texas deer hunt. Killed one decent 8 point and two does.

That is a beauty - nice shooting.

The only problem I have with Coopers is that they are incredibly boring - mount the scope, adjust it to desired point of impact and shoot. I like to have rifles with challenges so in addition to my Coopers I am constantly buying some other brand so that I have something to tinker with trying to make it shoot like Coopers do out the box.

drover

I'm sure I'll be the odd one out when it comes to Coopers. I had a Model 52 in .30-06 and it shot just ok. I got in touch with them, shipped it back, and they re-barreled it. The new barrel shot just like you would expect them to, and pretty much like the others have posted here. So, great customer service for me. I thought the rifle was a bit heavy but I carried it around for two seasons chasing elk here in MT. I shot a couple of cows with it and it did just fine, but then again, the distances weren't too difficult. My biggest complaint was the safety. It was pretty easy to move it to the fire position. In fact, I twice found that the safety had moved off safe while hiking around the mountains. In 30+ years of hunting, I have never had a safety do that on any of my rifles. I was more than happy to sell the rifle shortly after that. I'm not disparaging the folks that are happy with them; I just wanted to you to let you know about the one issue that I found. It was a deal-breaker for me.

Cooper is a well made and well fitted rifle. I have had two of them and liked them both but not for the money they cost. Accuracy was good but not exceptional. Their included targets are shot at either 40 or 60 yards, not 100. There are far more shots taken than just the three they send to you.

As some have said, the rifles are fairly heavy.

The one thing I have not seen mentioned, and maybe it was just me, was the cheesy, cheap magazines. You would think for a rifle like Cooper is supposed to be, they would either have a floor plate or a blind magazine.

The mags on mine have been all steel, heavy and rugged, and have never malfunctioned. They do have a bit of a custom, hand made feel to them though so I can see why you might say that. I've seen several newer rifles with all plastic mags and they sure seem cheap looking to me. I'm guessing Cooper considers a detachable mag as an upgrade and makes unloading easier. I can see though that if you drop one down a hillside you now have a single shot.

I can only comment on my Coopers accuracy. It's a Model 21 Montana varmiter in .221FB, and while not for deer, maybe it'll help you grasp a coopers potential for accuracy. 5 shots each @ 100

Today, I talked to the nice lady at Cooper. I asked her about pricing on the configuration I want and the process for ordering. She said that the proof targets included with the rifles are from 50 yds. She also went on to say the accuracy is guaranteed. Anyway, tomorrow I am biting the bullet and contacting an authorized dealer and proceeding with my order. It will be:

Model 54 Excalibur
Stainless receiver
Stainless fluted barrel
Tan with black highlights composite Classic stock
7mm-08 Rem chambering
Talley bases

Dave

One suggestion when ordering; have cooper supply and fit a 2nd magazine. When hunting, it's nice to have one in the gun and one in your pocket for a quick reload. They only hold three rounds. Plus, if you were to lose one, you won't be out of business.

Hellman

i think that's a super cooper recipe.

+1 on lastround's suggestion on an extra magazine.

laogai

You are not the lone ranger in this regard...

I had a 54 wood stocked and sold it. I did not like the safety or the hard bolt lift. Felt recoil was far to hard for a 280 remington.Very pretty rifle just not my thing. It did not shoot very well either.ED

Sample of one, a Jackson game in .260. 3 different loads have easily met the .5 inch 3 shot group at 100 yard guarantee. Two of the loads have consistently done .5 MOA at 300 yards and when I am on my A game at 400 yards. I have had no issues cycling the bolt from the shoulder, weight in the action you are looking at is fine weight for walking rifle (i'm 5'10" 180 pounds).

I would like to buy a Jackson Hunter rifle in .260 os I have a wet weather cooper rifle.

Best of luck. GRF

Geedubya is a man with extensive experience buying and selling Cooper rifles, hopefully he will chime in.

If my Classic Custom 7mm-08 is everything I hoped it would be I intend on ordering a synthetic stocked Excalibur with stainless barrel and action in 300 H&H caliber. I like 300 caliber and up in Classic chamberings. Current elk guns are Ruger 1S 300 H&H, Ruger K1A 35 Whelen, and Winchester 71 in .348 Win. I also occasionally hunt elk with a Ruger 1S 7mm Rem Mag.

Dave

I would never even consider owning a Cooper simply because of Dan Cooper and his monetary support of Obama's presidential campaign.

He no longer owns the company

You do know that Dan Cooper is no longer a part of Cooper rifles and hasn't been for many years, right? The company is owned by Wilson.

Correct. He still created the company and it still bears his name.

So, are you saying that if they would have changed the name of the company that you would buy one??

drover

So you're sticking it to him by refusing to buy a rifle from a company that doesn't affect his life in the least little way? You're taking a stand against a company that ousted him for the Obama campaign contribution? You can't get past the name? I'm at a loss.

Geez, maybe we shouldn't by Beretta, Walther, or others manufactured by Germany, Italy, or Japan and other "evil" countries of the past. Let go, man.

That ole Dan Cooper issue has been beat into the ground too many times to count.

Cooper Rifles is not Dan Cooper.

I'm assuming three lug Coopers have a 60* bolt lift. There isn't much technical info on their web site. A shorter arc doing the same work (cocking the striker) takes more effort.

On the other hand, the Wby MkV has a 60*, short bolt lift, is super smooth, slick and fast cycling.

DF

It's usually a sour grapes excuse more than anything. The same people would have never bought one anyhow.

I have a lefty 54 and a 52, and they are both great. Would love to have a lefty synthetic Cooper, but neither they nor Bell and Carlson listen to my suggestions of starting LH stocks.

I'm picking up my first Cooper tomorrow, a 52 classic in uber gay 270. I hope it doesn't suck.

Why yes it is

(56 actually)

I've only owned one Cooper "repeater"



a model 52 Jackson Game Rifle. It was chambered for the 25-06 Rem. IIRC.


However,





it did shoot "minute of white-tail" out far enough.

Now the models 21, 22, & 38, that's a different story.

JAPPFT,


GWB

Cooper Model 38 Classic, 17 Hebee


Cooper Model 21, Varminter 17 Mach IV


Cooper model 21, Varminter, 20 Vartarg,


Cooper Model 21 Classic, Tactical 20


Cooper Model 38 Classic 22 Hornet


Cooper model Varmint Extreme, 22-250

Cooper model 22, Montana Varminter 6.5 x 284


Cooper Model 22, Montana Varminter, 7mm-08, 200 yds.


Cooper Model 22, Varmint Extreme, 308 Winchester,

You nailed it totally.

anywho,

where else can one find factory rifles, pre-enjoyed at a price of 13 Benjamins or less, that have excellent fit, and finish, great triggers and can be had in most cases a half dozen chamberings in 17, 19, 20,22,24,25, 26 and 28 cals.

Just sayin'


GWB

I can afford one but can't bring myself to buy one. In my opinion Cooper did not get to keep the name for free. Somehow, someway Dan Cooper is still getting paid for his name.

I know if makes everyone feel warm and fuzzy to think they ain't supporting that piece of poop but I bet if you could get into the company records he's still getting paid.

I will keep buying Sako's.

Dink

Sounds like a plan to me.





Every day's a holiday.........





Every meal's a feast........













JAPPFT,


GWB

Those jackson game rifle's are nice. Nice buck too!

Well, old Sakos anyway.


The Nosler Patriot looks good as well.

GW, are those 223's getting worn out , or are you slipping a little JK

223 3 shot group with 52 SMK

Nah'

My problem is the rifles shoot better than I do. I'm just not that good of a shot. LOL

JAPPFT

GWB

Negative Waves, so early in the morning. LOL




new or old



works for me.

Best,

GWB

Too fugging funny to comment on other than to say I hope that you don't miss your weekly Flat Earth Society meeting this week.

As for buying Sako rifles to keep my chin above water and level with the Jones's of the world, I currently own 17 old and new ones, which is more than double my 8 Coopers. What say you, dinky dow (dien cai dau - 'Namese for batty/goofy)?

Justify it to yourself any way you want. There is no way Dan Cooper left the company and said keep my name and use it for free. It just doesn't happen that way. But if it makes you feel better about buying coopers keep drinking the cool aid.

Dink

GWB,

On average what do you think is the better rifle for the money a Sako or Cooper?

Dink

If you are still considering a Cooper... Here goes:

I own 4 and plan on owning more.
I work my own loads regardless of what the factory sends with the test target...

models 52; 54 or 56:
Calibers: 270 Win - shoots a barnes 130 and a 150 Nosler PT at sub .25"
25-06 Rem shoots a 120 Nosler PT through the same hole touching at 100 yards
264 Win mag Shoots a 139 Scenar at 3300 FPS less than .25"
338-06: shoots 215 Nosler PT and 225 Barnes Tsx at .5" at 100 yards.

going to add a 300 win mag to the list and a 6.5x47 hopefully in the next year.

IMHO I believe these rifles to be expensive, but well worth the $$ based on quality and field use.

You're the one justifying and fantasizing about reality.

Did you know that Sammy Sako gave money to Obama? Just wondering?

You apparently never knew Dan Cooper if you had you would know that the very thing that would have killed the sale would have been NOT using his name on the rifles, his ego is too big to let them use another name on them.

drover

Bay,

If Sako had donated money to Obama it would not have pizzed me off as much. They are foreigners.

Dan Cooper built his business leading people to believe he was a American. As American sportsman made him money he used that money to stab us in the back. He tried to hurt every American gun owner.

Of course Cooper was smart enough to know that Americans are stupid and would soon began giving him their hard earned money again. It was a win win for him and I am sure it still is.

The day that article came out Cooper firearms should have folded. Just as smith and wesson should have folded the day the agreed to put locks on their guns. Americans are stupid and we keep giving our money to people that stab us in the back.

Dink

Dink. Listen to drover. There are some people here who are closer to knowing Dan Cooper than just posting on an internet forum.

If you want to truly look at a stupid American as opposed to calling others that, look in the mirror. You are a relic stuck in time, dude.

DINK is a lard azz genuine small town cop so he knows everything.

Dink,

Folks close to me sometimes get irritated because I have a very hard time answering a “yes or no” question with a simple yes or no. I almost always feel the need to extrapolate.

So with that in mind here goes. Please note that the following is only one mans’ opinion, and the old bromide , “opinions are like noses, everyone has one and most of them smell”, applies to my soliloquy. This answer may not be satisfactory, but it will have to suffice.

I’ve been playing with and owning firearms since I was 11. I will be 64 this year. Consequently there has been a significant amount of “been there done that” in my experience. I note that I am getting more set in my ways of late. As an example, to this date I’ve not availed my self of Howas, Tikkas or Sako A7’s.

I’ve been trading up and seriously collecting rifles for about 25 years now. I think I have reloading dies for +/- 62 different chamberings.
Sakos were my first love. I purchased my first, an l61r Varmint in 7mag around 1995, and the latest Bavarian in 6.5 x 55 a couple weeks ago. I do believe I’ve owned over two dozen between 222 Rem and 375 H&H in Riihimaki, l461, S491, l579, L61r, AI, AII, AIII, AV, M995, 75, & 85 mofels. All but one were repeaters. I don’t guncrank for pay, but from time to time I will mess with a buds’ Sako, or buy a beater to spuce up and sell, so that will put me having experience with +/- 30 different Sakos.

I have only encountered two Sako rifles in that time that I could not get to shoot sub-inch. These were back to back Stainless synthetic model 75’s chambered for the 338 Federal. Turned out it was a manufacturing defect, oversized chambers.

I’ve never had a Cooper that I had to dispose of due to manufacturing defects. Even if I stopped and counted I'd probably get it wrong, but I've owned around 30 Coopers.

I typically purchase both Cooper and Sako rifles pre-enjoyed and try to pay +/- 60% of MSRP.

In the mid -nineties I subscribed to Todd Kindler’s Small Caliber news and also the Varmint Hunter Magazine. It took a couple years but it was then that I started buying model 21,22, & 38 Coopers. Why, because of my perception of value. At that time (and this was about a dozen years before Dan Cooper contributed to Obama’s election campaign), with the exception of Rimfires, Cooper only made single shot rifles and had a ½” at 100 yard guarantee. IIRC, the major concern for Cooper before they came out with the Model 52, was manufacturing and chambering a repeater that would hold their ½” guarantee.

IIRC the Varminters were first, then the Classics. According to info that I have, I own the first Classic made by Cooper, chambered in 22 hornet.
To date I do not know of another rifle manufacturer that chambers such a wide assortment of sub/small/medium caliber/chamberings. I’ve owned 17 Ackley Hornet, 17 HeBee, 17 Mach IV(2), 17 Fireball, 17 Remington, 19 Calhoon(19 Hornet), 20 Vartarg, 20 Tactical, 22 Hornet, 221 Fireball, 222 Rem(2) 223Rem(2) 22-250 Rem(2), 6Br Rem. 6 x 47, 6-284, 250 Savage, 250 AI, 257AI, 25-06, 6.5 x 284, 7mm-08(2) and 308Win (2). All would make or exceed the ½ “ guarantee of the factory at 100 yds. Maybe not with every load, but with a little tinkering and load development , yes.

The wood on the earlier Coopers was way superior to the standard run of the mill Sakos, prior to the 75’s. IMHO, the triggers on the Coopers were also superior to the standard Sakos in that they were easily adjustable and could safely be adjusted under two lbs. or better. That was not always the case with Sakos.

I currently have 3 Sakos that have the “single set trigger” which breaks at/about 9 oz. That is a feature I really like, but I don’t do much spot and stalk, and it very seldom gets cold enough here for gloves. These three Sakos are a Model 75 Varmint in 260 Remington, a model 85 Bavarian Carbine in 308 Win. , and a model 85 Bavarian, half stock in 6.5 x 55. IMHO, they would be superior to the run of the mill Cooper. Unusually, each of these were purchased new . Only the Bavarian carbine would be comparable in price to the Cooper repeaters. The 260 Varmint was around 10 Benjamins, the 6.5 x 55 approx 15 Benjamins. IIRC most Cooper repeaters these days are near $2k new.

To date, if you want a factory chambered sub/small caliber rifle, I do not believe Cooper can be beat for the money, pre-enjoyed, and probably not even new. One can certainly not buy an action, stock, barrel and have it chambered for the price of a used Cooper purchased right. I typically pay under $1,300 per unit, including shipping, and transfer fee for the pre-enjoyed model 21, 22, & 38 that I buy. On occasion I will step up and pay more. I’m patient. It took over 10 years to find the 20 Vartarg I wanted at the price I would pay, and 15 years for the 17 Ackley Hornet.

Which brings me to the repeaters. I find it hard to purchase pre-enjoyed Cooper repeaters for the price I want to pay. Although the prices for used Sakos has increased significantly, one can purchase them for less than used Cooper repeaters.

Presently, I do believe I’m behind the curve when commenting on the Cooper repeaters, (51,52, 54, 56) as I’ve only owned one, a Jackson Game Rifle with fluted Stainless barrel. I purchased it years back from a young man who had been given it for graduation. He wanted an SKB shotgun. I purchased it from him along with rings and 5 boxes of premium ammo on a FTF for $1,250. Hard to do these days. Like the single shot models, it would shoot sub inch groups with factory fodder. The JGR is hands down my favorite wood stocked Cooper.

The bible states that a double –minded man is unstable in all his goings, and as you can probably tell it is hard for me to be objective when commenting on Sakos vs. Coopers. I’ve been fortunate to fondle and collect quite a few of both and continue to enjoy aspects of each.

As mentioned before, I’d give the nod to Cooper on the small calibers, unreservedly as to price/value, fit and finish.

The repeaters I would have to give the nod to Sakos due the price/value quotient, and here is my way of thinking. One can still purchase older Sako repeaters that will do anything necessary to take game at reasonable distances for as little as $650, in chamberings from 243 through 375 H&H. Now granted they may not have the fit, finish, wood, and triggers of the Coopers, but one can buy some pretty good glass for $500 and up that can most likey be saved on the purchase of a pre-enjoyed Sako vs Cooper.


Best,

GWB

You can call me what you wish to but my money will go else where.

Dink

GWB,

Thank you for your well thought out, well written, and easy to understand analysis you have summed it up very well. You are not only an excellent photographer but you have a knack for simplifying a complex subject.

drover

Why are reading this thread? Did you think it was about NEF handi rifles?

How many coopers or Sakos do you own?

Dink

Thanks for your opinion.

Dink

Geedubya, I enjoyed reading that. Thanks for taking the time to write that out.

That was an excellent comparison GWB.

Thanks for the analysis!

GWB

Your wisdom is appreciated!

coopers are a fine ride. I adore mine and have hunted them hard. The accuracy is easy to take for granted.

They shoot off hand well and I have taken many animals that way.

But, they are heavy and I am a bit tired of carrying mine. I am going to try a basners next.

Not all Bansner stocked rifles are lightweights.....

JAPPFT,

GWB