After messing around with this rifle for a couple of years trying to get it to shoot, it is going back. This weekend I took it out and found after mounting the new Talley rings and scope that the darn holes that are drilled in the top of the receiver are crooked.

I cannot believe I have not noticed this before. I never could get the darn thing to shoot and now I know of at least one reason why.

So I officially start the return policy process with Winchester.

Any advice?

Over the years I have sent rifles back to most of the major makers. A Winchester model 70 was one of them. Unfortunately, my experience with Winchester customer service was not the best. Several of us worked with that rifle for almost three years and could not get it to shoot. Really, it averaged three shot groups under a paper plate. Winchester sent it back and noted that it was us and not the gun. I eventually rebarreled the thing to make it work.

BACO? Good luck.. After "..a couple of years.." BACO won't do jack for ya.. Only time they might is if (and "might" is the operative word) it's a safety issue...

Have you considered sending it to Redneck for a diagnosis?

Good luck, dont think they will do squat for you. I had one M-70, 300 WSM, one of the ones with the oval chambers. It went back twice, came back with a note stating to never send it in again. They never did fix it. My Winchester days are done.

When I used to read a lot of legal documents I'd see the term "dismissed with prejudice."

Oh, I called them when I read the note. They said it was fixed and they would not talk to me about that rifle again. All they did was take a dremel tool to the feed ramp. Dont know what that was gonna accomplish.

Sounds like you need some Weaver bases and Burris Signature rings with offset inserts.

I have a Winchester that looks like the old boy eyeballed the mount holes.

Send the rifle to a smith and have him D&T for larger (8-40) screws and adjust the Talleys accordingly.

Wow, I have not contacted them yet but it might just go up for sale.

I have pulled every trick in the book with this rifle. Including new rings and scope. I just hate that from every manufacturer you take the risk of just blowing your money. Its worse than buying trucks. I hope they make it right.

But I am shopping today.

Go Leupold DD bases and Burris Signature DD rings. The Weaver/Burris Zee melding is Dog Schit.

Assuming 1" glass,you can reap 40MOA of correction. Best approach is to mechanically center the scope in question's windage,center it via eccentric and dump any/all remaining in the erector. To do so,you'll need to order extry eccentrics,as the issued packaging doesn't have the Big Move shipped with it. Further,you can shim bases separately to really gain erector latitude and less a fret in regards to binding up a tube.

Keep maximum ring spacing in mind too as you shop,because that is the greatest mechanical integrity advantage edge you can toss towards any scope. As seen here.



You've been led to water.

Thank me later.

Don't know how the "new" Winchester is but I sent one back to New Haven in the late '90s with off center rear base holes & I was happy with the service I got. The rifle shot great groups but I couldn't use Warne QD rings & bases because there wasn't quite enough windage in the scope to zero it. I got the rifle back and it was straightened out. All that said, why would "crooked" holes make it group poorly? Hope they take care of it for ya.

I use S&K rings on my Model 70's for the most part. They give plenty of horizontal adjustment and they seem to stay put.

I would not send it back for off center base holes, it ain't free to ship it back.

If it won't shoot, it may not be the rifle.

As Stick mentioned, DD's and Burris Signature rings, I had them on two 70's and have two sets of bases for sale if you need a set for less than new.

My advice is to back to 1963....grin

88 mph my man, 88 mph!

They'd have to be pretty dang crookedy for me to send it back to the tender mercies of CS. You will likely just end up with less money and no joy. Boxer's idea looks like a good one.

Yeah, my only advice is learn a little Portuguese....!!!

If I had to call them, it would start out like this:






você suja pequenos sonofabitches , é melhor você começar a fazer um bom modelo winchester 70. Eu vou entrar em um barco e empurrar este rifle na sua bunda !!! Vou usá-lo como um remo e quando eu chegar lá, pummle o inferno fora de você !! Você não pode obter os buracos perfurados de base reta você galo bastardos de olhos . Da próxima vez , eu vou puxar a cabeça para fora do meu azz e comprar um pré 64

I had this happen to a 243 from them I bought.... holes for the bases mounted were off set...

I solved the problem by installing Leupold bases and rings...windage adjustment allowed me to bring it into where the scope was useable...

had sent it in to Winchester and they said they tested it and nothing was wrong, totally ignoring my note stating the holes for the bases were drilled and not straight in line...

If the holes in the receiver are straight, but the ones in the bridge aren't, a bridge mount might work.

Crooked holes can be filled and re-drilled, but they obviously don't want to go to that much trouble and expense. Shame on 'em.

The lesson here is to check out things thoroughly before you plunk down the bucks.

Time is money.
How much have you spent already?
I'd dump the thing and buy a shooter.
Constantly amazed by folks who are willing to accept sub par manufactuered products out of the box and spend another few hundred in time and effort attempting to run up a down escalator.

Let them keep it and buy a pre 64....for that matter buy a push feed you would be better off..to bad win quality has suffered. They ar not the only ones look at rem and Marlin.....lots of complaints on that side also....

Well I went out and got some Leupold bases and rings. Worked great. It's all leveled up and ready for the range. Now I finally get to start working on reloads for the rifle.

I got the sonofabitches part, something about taking a boat and putting something up someones butt and pulling my head out next time and buying a pre-64. Sounds reasonable

Mostly, I consider factory rifles to be pre-assembled kits. The are little more than suggestions for what the final product appearance may be after all the bugs are worked out. Winchester's M-70 is, and has always been at, or near, the bottom of my list.

My friends and I have had nothing but excellent service from Ruger.

Well I spoke with the service rep from Winchester's website. Real nice guy who actually listened to my issue and was helpful. I explained I was not a gunsmith or even as knowledgeable as some on this website and I needed some experienced help with this rifle.

His first response was to assure me that no matter what was "actually" wrong with the rifle it would be fixed. He then ran me through a course of tech questions and answers right there on the phone to make sure the rifle needed to shipped to him.

After speaking with him I did some simple testing and cleaning and found that Talley rings could be mounted where they do not line up with the bore. I thought that was impossible do to the way they are manufactured.

Long story short after the tuning ideas he gave me and all the work all done the rifle is shooting 1" groups at 100 yards.

I am happy with Winchester.

Well, glad they got it straightened out for you. Enjoy.

Mighty short list, I'm bettin'... Wanna try some 740s, 742s, 710s 750s et al?




Ditto...

Well Redneck you are right and have the experience to back it up. I admittedly do not. There are so many things to evaluate, and I used to think tuning bows was tough work. I thought I had a handle on things but ran up against things I never even heard of.

However the service I got from my Rep here in Oregon was spot on. That impressed me. Maybe I just got lucky but my issues are solved and I am happy. I learned that just because someone says it should work don't always mean it will.

I found that rifles can be finicky. I found that just buying a rifle is only the beginning. Sometimes you get lucky and everything bolts up and shoots well, sometimes it don't.

I starting to find products that "I" know work because I have tested them or fixed and tuned them to work for me. For instance, hard steel barrels need a lot of breaking in. Square is Square. 2" groups at 200 yards is good shooting, good ammo and a fine weapon all combined and not to expect that from a stock rifle and Federal box ammo.

What is an example of a hard steel barrel?

The best explanation I can offer is that the tech told me that some barrels are harder to break in than others. With my already explained lack of experience, I took what he said and did a lot more shooting and cleaning of my rifle.

I found that it did shrink my groups. Considerably. The tech explained that newer rifles have a harder steel and temper than older rifles and that the stainless barrels need some break in to get the best groups.

If he is right or wrong it did not matter to me as the rifle did start shooting better. So I do not feel qualified to give you an example of what you are asking for more than what I have been told and experienced.

All of the little things done the right way and the education I am getting doing them myself has been a real experience. I do have to admit I have had costlier educations that were not as much fun. I have now shot several groups with factory ammo under an inch and a half and some under an inch at a hundred with factory Federal Fusion ammo.

My next adventure is starting to reload. I have all of the RCBS gear to get me going. I have the recommended loading manuals, powder, primers, top notch bullets in the grain I would like to start with, and all I need to do now is set it all up and go at it.

Just so it has been said; I will be using recommended loads out of the Nosler, Hornady, and RCBS manuals.

Thanks for all of the help and I will see ya at the range...

Have fun, its a great ride!

Well, to be honest, I seldom buy factory rifles, except maybe for the action, which I strip and toss the barrel, stock and trigger. Last one was a Remington 783, sort of the new Erector Set of a rifle for curious old guys, held together by Fixodent and titanium hardware, to play with.

Otherwise I purchase bare actions, sometimes Savage Precision Target Actions, sometimes Remington 700's. I never saw any goodness in the Winchester M-70 as an action, either the pre '64 or later. I did build two rifles on the Mark X Mauser action - classical appearance - and good performance. The Serbians have been making Mauser actions for a long time, and they know what they are doing. Take one, or a Siamese Mauser, and stick a side swing safety on the bolt and you have what a Winchester M-70 wanted to be.

Main thing are the barrels. I used Shilen, Criterion, Hart, Brux, Schneider, and a lot of Pac-Nor's, all stainless steel. Now I'm really into Pac-Nor's polygonal rifled barrels. These suckers shoot - I mean really shoot - and they break in easily. Afterwards they clean up with nothing more than patches and some Bore Tech eliminator. So, there you have it.

Next thing is the handloading. It's similar to being a chef, with complex tools, cartridge brass, powders, bullets, primers, and a lot of myths, misconceptions, and plain old bull crap thrown in. You experiment with the recipes, manipulate things just right, and achieve the perfect load. I've been doing it for over fifty years and learn something new every time. Just trying to keep up with new powders is a hobby in itself. Maybe I'll sell it all and take up fishing. May your journey be pleasant and informative, and your decapping pins never break.

Thanks Wrangler

It has been a journey. I am having fun and it seems to last longer than the archery tackle I am used to messing with.