So if they blue it or add a good hunk of walnut and a more solid magazine??

That's truly an interesting question. If you look at Winchester (XPR), Ruger (American), Savage (Axis/Stevens) and Remington (783), they'll all are budget offerings. All of these offering seems to borrow traits from one another with the Savage Stevens starting the trend. The 'fire seems to like to tinker with the cheaper models (including me) even though we have more expensive (is it better?) stuff to play with.

What makes the question even more interesting is that it seems like all of these budget offerings shoot excellent to a point where they might shoot better than their more expensive siblings.

With that said, I think we are seeing a trend where hunters/shooters want performance above costs and these models will become the new norm for all manufacturers as they are modular and cheap to produce.

America has become a 'disposable' society. And the gunmakers are giving out what's wanted by their public.

I picked up a RAR a while ago and asked myself what it would take to put it in a wood stock with a blind mag.

I don't know what that has to do with fooferall, but that was my first thought.

Who'll be the first, Manners or McMillan, to start making a RAR stock?

I shot both the RAR and hawk eye on subsequent days on the same caliber similar glass and green box ammo... The RAR was more accurate, lighter, easier to load.

I fully expect to see an upgraded version of the American in the near future. I don't have any inside knowledge -- it's just a guess.

It makes perfect sense to me. The American is a solid platform.

I think the next iteration will likely be something akin to the ranch on 308, 338 and...dare I suggest...358win.

Yup. I'm just waiting to see which one is the first to switch manufacturing to China. Once that starts all of them will follow suit quickly.

Isn't the Ruger Precision Rifle an upgraded version of the RAR?

The market is in budget, high end. or black guns. Went to the local Scheels store the other day. They have maybe dozen new rifles in the majors' flagship rifles (maybe three R77s, three W70, handful of R700). All other guns were Tikka, RAR,Axis, etc. They actually have more new Kimbers and Coopers than they do 77s, 70s, and 700s combined. Big cabinet of ARs. Where the market goes, the merchants will follow.

Kaiser Norton

I don't care for them, as a class, myself, but the concept makes sense for a lot of people, for multiple reasons. Might buy one myself one day.

Well...I've never owned a 7#, 16"Bbl, center fire that would shoot like the little ranch does. Even with $10 rings and a cheap Nikon.
I'd suspect a quality set of rings and scope, better brass than remanufactured LC, and some attention to loading and it could really be a half inch gun.
I see the STD 308 for less than 300 bucks in hand.
That's something that Remington and Winchester and browning have yet to pull off successfully.
And certainly something that those makers will need to address if they continue to attempt to battle ruger in the entry level market.
I doubt savage is very happy about it either.

Yup.

The beginning of the "end" was when they sold you something...then charged extra for the warranty.

They were telling us.."It's gonna break".

When the Remington 700 came out it was considered a cheap disposable rifle too because of all of the corners cut in manufacturing. Same thing said about the 870, Savage 110 series, Glocks, post 64 Winchesters, and Mossberg 500's. They all seem to work and have proven to last. I suspect the RAR will too.

Actually the 721/722 Remington were considered the end of civilization as we know it by some. Here's a quote from the the 1958 issue of Gun Digest by then well-known writer Bob Wallack: “The motto at Remington these days…is ‘all for production,’ so their rifles are designed for ease of manufacture and to sell at a certain price. Every part that can possibly be banged out on a punch press is banged out on a punch press, much to the sorrow of any real gun bug. Such methods do not affect the handling qualities or functioning of a rifle, certainly, but neither do they add up to a gun that a guy’d want to own with pride.”

Before the 721/722 was the Savage 23, and a bunch of other "cheap" rifles that often are now considered classics. Just look at the price a "nice" 722 in .257 Roberts or a 721 in .300 H&H brings these days.

American mass manufacturing has always been aimed at providing the average customer a functional product at a good price. In fact that's one of the basic principles of capitalism. And now we're bitching about it.

It all went into the shieter in 1964.......

Probably.

A certain proportion of shooters has always considered guns as tools, with no interest in fine mechanisms, pretty wood, and attractive lines. Function is everything, and low-cost functionality a great virtue. They're not wrong, for their use. Some of us just like something a little nicer. A 77, or its equivalent in other brands is roughly two or three times the price of a RAR. To me, it's worth it. For someone wanting to try out a bunch of different cartridges, or who wants to just shoot, a reliable, accurate rifle for $300 is a wonderful bargain and a good idea. It takes the place for many of the used rifle, with its potential problems, and also possibly the change-a-barrel guns like the Encore.

The question is, will the manufacture of nicer stuff be sustainable for ordinary gunmakers or will it fall to the semi-custom and high-end companies and the Europeans?

Fu ck the magazine. I don't mind hinged floor plates. Don't really care for push feeds, but the RAR isn't bad in that regard.

I have both, and both work. The RAR .308 is a great first 'grownup gun' for my 15yr old, or a decent gun for anyone....for any purpose. My 77 in 7x57 is more desirable and classy, for sure. Bar chick or serority chick: both will get the job done, just depends on which you'd rather leave the lights on for.

Timney fixed the trigger problems. It needs a true recoil lug. Then you could fit it to a proper fiberglass stock without much fuss.

This is an important statement even coming from a small sample size.

So are we at a point from the RAR owners that it is capable of Tikka-like performance? In other words, from the box to the range by-passing bedding compound, pressure point tweaks, mag box issues, bad action screws, prayerful chants, incense and candles?

You don't even need to mess with a Timney. I fixed the trigger on mine with a visit to my local gunshop where I picked up a free chunk of coil spring. It took me maybe 20-25 minutes to take the action out of the stock, get the trigger apart, and then a couple of attempts with the wire snip to get the replacement coil to the right length. Then put it all back together, and it's a solid trigger with a measured 2.25 lb weight of pull.

My RAR Predator ( [b][color:#3333FF]6.5 Creedmoor Shoots![/color][/b] ) is showing definite signs of being a solid 0.5 moa rifle, just like my Tikka T3s in 223 and 6.5x55 are.

Is their trigger an LC-6 or some other version? It looks like an accu-trigger style.

I think the biggest difference between the 77 and the RAR is one of them is a rifle.




Travis

Yup, and with Hawkeyes available online for about $550, I'd have a tough time dropping $300-$350 on something I don't really like. At least the cheap Marlins have a real magazine.

There's a pretty big market for these rifles. One of my buddies actually likes these and scoff's at the M77'S. He's always disliked the m77 for some reason. One of those kind of guys that shoots a rifle and gets 7" groups at 100 yards and blames the rifle every time. One of these days he (and others like this) will get the hint.. Personally I'd rather have one good rifle than 3 cheap azzed ones... Now the RAR rimfires are a different story and may hurt m77 rimfire sales.

An "upgraded" RAR is going to cost just about the same amount as a Hawkeye.

I prefer the Hawkeye myself.

The 'Murican is more of a tool than a pride-of-ownership item, but it serves a purpose. You don't mind getting it dirty, it is light, it shoots without much fuss, and it is cheap. My secondhand 7mm-08 SS compact likes Hornady's American Whitetail 139 Interlock load just fine ($21 at the hardware store). It's not as pretty or as solid as a M77, but it does what it is supposed to do, which means the engineers did their jobs.

More 'Murica......

I couldn't care less about what other rifles have over it on a standard configuration.
I couldn't find a lightweight, carbine length bolt platform for the Blackout that came factory threaded.
The rimfire American impressed me enough to try the ranch. Now that I have I'm thoroughly impressed... not enough to but a 308 and sell my other rigs but enough to shoot and enjoy the American for what it is.
A useful tool that's standing alone in a market full of redundant rifles.
Like I say...the ran h specifically.
Love to see the same setup in a 44 and 357.

It's a little rough around the edges ..... The bolt to be exact.
But having a carbine model in 44 or 357 using the rotary mag. Good idea ringworm

I do dislike what the RAR (sales) have apparently done to M77 choices. The M77 is more of a "hunting rifle", while the RAR is more of a "shooting rifle". That said, I suspect the popularity of the RAR reflects what their buyers us the rifles for these days. It's no longer the serious hunter market as much as in the past.

There's a big market for TV Reality shows too, just not in my house.

I might pick up a stainless .223 to shoot cheap ammo in someday when I've got a little money burning a hole in my pocket. I haven't had one since I traded off my Sako about 1987 or so and it feels almost un-American, kinda like not having an '06.

I think Ruger has decide that Every American should own as many rifles As they can. Only way they are gonna do that is to give Americans a damn good shooter for a damn good price.

They did that. I doubt the 77 will go anywhere. Its more of a Rifleman's Rifle.

What's a "30-06?"

Is that a 308 long?

Crow hunter- "...switch manufacturing to China." CRIPES, I sure hope NOT! Look what doing that has done to baby formula, wallboard, laminated flooring, dog food ....and a lotta things we don't know about -YET. Homesteader

While shag and mule deer pretty much nailed it above. Truly and I have said it in the past if you just want a tool to shoot a deer then the price point rifles such as the RAR and stevens offerings work fine. Still I don't consider them nice rifles but then I'm older and consider a nice rifle only comes in walnut and blue with nice checkering etc. to me all plastic stocked guns & I have a couple are the same be it a RAR or a Kimber montana.
I do see the OPs point and think there is a real possibility that the nice gun market may become controlled predominately by the smaller boutique companies like Cooper, Kimber etc and the big boys may phase out of the "nice"gun market because they expect a ever expanding volume of sales to satisfy their stockholders.

The hunter of today isn't the same as the hunter of yesteryear.
The large b
Locks of land in much of the US are corporate owned or have been broken down to subdivided small plots.
The average new hunter doesn't view the rifle as anything more than a means to an end. A tool like binos or tree stands.
Wanting blued steel, walnut and glossy black scopes is becoming a thing of the past.
Give it another 20 years and see what the landscape loos like.
The axis, RAR, ect. Are the first wave....actually shooters for the price that everyone can afford.
I like it.
I like the scopes rifle as the arm of America. I wish more people would see that as an option over the AR.

I have always loved blued steel and walnut,but seems when I buy black matted steel and plastic,( for half price)the bullets all seem to group nicely,which is what I'm after.

I think the RAR has replaced the 77 as Ruger's top seller. My 77 is a real solid rifle with pretty wood and steel and shoots terrifically (after a trigger job, free float of the barrel, glass bedding etc.) it is my favorite rifle but it is after all a tool, a means to an end and not an unfired safe queen investment piece.

The RAR I got this year in 30-06 will be an extra for me and my grandsons first big game rifle. I did have to put one of those Sims vibration rubber grommets on the barrel - not because I wanted to tune it - the barrel was just too light to balance right and hold steady. I shot 2 sub MOA groups today at 100 yards one with 150 grain factory cheapies and one with 180 partitions and the 130's my grandson shoots group just as well.

Ugly and effective is preferable to pretty and finicky for my hunting purposes.

Sometime in the mid sixties, I was young, married, had two kids, and was working entry level pay. Remington had just come out with the ugly 600 series at a MSRP of $99.95. A friendly LGS guy put me into one for $75 and for a small down and 30-60-90 payout. I went to Gibson's and got a set of Weaver mounts at about $7 and one of their house brand scopes for about $10. I used a 1" black target paster for a target. Once zeroed, the 6mmR, put three touching on the paster, and again, and again.

Then came the 788 a few years later. Another cheap date that folks soon found to work better than a red neck girl.

The arms companies often put out finely engineered low cost stuff that works, often better than the top of the line, but they have NO SOUL, for lack of a better description. You can't be seen in public with them, but make fine truck guns.
Jack

Pretty much....

SOUL is a word that people who spend too much for something use to justify the extra expense.

You'll know when you find a rifle with soul. Sounds like you are making excuses for being a cheap bastid too....

Rifles have no 'souls', that's invented for the guys like you to not feel guilty about jerking off to 'fine' wood.

Your taste in beer matches your taste in rifles!




Dave

Not his taste in mowers...

Don't hate on the Beast!

There are times when "going cheap" isn't that bad of an idea. Beer to stash in the camp fridge isn't going to be top notch, and the rifle to bang around on the tractor or Polaris might be more of the wal-mart variety. The other two main rifles we use for those purposes are pawn-shop 788's. I went SS RAR so I could just leave this one behind the seat of the truck all the time and not sweat the humidity changes. Pun there..... (grin)

Definite points on the JD.




Travis

I do not judge.... grin.




Travis

Drinking the Beast the next step is admitting you have a problem

I believe the Ruger American rifle will eventually dominate.
Reasons:
1. Kenny Jarrett has stated in a number of places that a three lug action will out perform a two lug bolt. I think he is serious because he set up to produce such an action. Also, I think he knows what the heck he is talking about. By the time you get a complete action together you will have spent at least 1600 bucks.
2. The magazine box is a cousin, design wise, of the rotary magazines in the Savage 99 and Manlicher Schonoer (sp) which were praised for having the best systems ever designed.
3. A push feed action with a center feed clip is extremely reliable. In fact it is just as reliable as a control feed out of a double stack magazine box. The model 1911 pistol, the Glock, and just about all modern semi automatic and automatic rifles (AR's) use such a system and they never fail to feed.
4. The barrel nut system, that allows one to quickly and easily change barrels is a big advantage.

It is inevitable that there will be many aftermarket parts.


The primary the detraction regarding the Ruger American Rifle is that it is readily available and reasonably priced. Also, it works really well without a bunch of upgrades.

Just wait until Jewel makes a trigger for it.

Wish they'd hurry up on decent replacement mags.....

Read somewhere that Draganov said that designing the magazine was the hardest part of the Draganov rifle project. Took them a year to get it right. Ruger rushed it, in my opinion.

What he said....

I put mine in a Boyds and it is a nice shooting rifle, but don't like the magazine.

I have both a RAR, in 7-08, and my beloved, old M77 tanger in 7mag sitting side by side in the safe. The RAR is in the same league as my Glock - it is a tool that does what it was designed to do, and does it well. The M77 is a whole 'nuther story. After 37 years, it is still a beauty in my eyes, one look at her takes me back to when I was a 21 year old kid driving my '71 Beetle home from the gun shop with my first new rifle. She has earned her place as 'queen' of the safe. I'm just a sentimental ol' fool, I guess.

I thought long and hard about an American the other day, but finally plunked down my bucks for a Weatherby Vanguard S2 stainless. It was, on average, about $200 more than the stainless RAR, pretty much dinner and a movie these days. I'll cook the dinner, watch something on Netflix, and call it even.

mebbe you should go hungry tonight and lissen to the radio.

The big issue with that is dealing with the potential risks of importing small arms though. It doesn't take an actual law for your livelihood to be screwed with if you're importing firearms and not building them here in the US>

You can't maintain a full figure like mine by skipping meals.

I wish they'd get on a stainless .22.

What's wrong with the mags, other than the OAL issue with the .223s?

If everyone starts buying RAR and sales drop off on the Hawkeyes I think they could go away.

Until I started working with the M77 MarkII and Hawkeyes I did not appreciate them. I have a Tikka and see no reason to get a RAR. You start voting with your pocket book and you'll end up with tool chest of Tiwan Tools. The rifle industry may just end up the same way.

I think there's still enough demand for CRF, blued steel, and walnut to keep the 77s going. The RARs are selling to folks who might otherwise buy used or borrow something to hunt with, and also of course to Loonies who want to play around with something without burning out Old Faithful's barrel. Where once guys would chop down an old SMLE or 95 for a truck or barn gun, now they can get something new, accurate, and reliable for a few hundred bucks. I'm convinced a fair number are sold as impulse purchases. Guy goes to the LGS, would like to buy something, but his budget and/or conscience hold him back until he spots the RAR and BOOM, game over. Once he's had his fun or if little Sally Ann suddenly needs an operation, he can sell it and not lose much money.

Another thing is that so far, they're not chambered for any magnum rounds, which still have a following. Whether that's a marketing decision or to keep costs down is anybody's guess.

That's not a Phillipino scope is it?


Nice ride.


The "Beast" gave my liver a purpose many years ago. We've met. Back when beer was breakfast food.

The budget rifles are king as far as sales go. Those SKU's turn significantly faster than the higher priced counterparts.

Right now, the Hawkeye is in limbo. There isn't a stainless/synthetic model in production....the first time since the MKII stainless hit the shelves 25 years or so ago.

You might laugh, but I think the stainless finish on the current Hawkeye helped diminish sales. Now that I'm on the other side of the counter, I can't tell you how many times a week I hear someone complain about their current color/metal finish. That's something Ruger will never be able to quantify. Had they just taken the shiny stainless and gave it a nice bead blast, I think they would have been evaluating totally different sales data over the last few years.

I've seen a lot of complaints here about the finish. I like the very matte finish on my Predator, as it's very subdued and non-reflective. My 77/22 RSI seems less so, but still is very attractive. I had a couple boat paddles years ago and always thought they were a bit too shiny. Not enough raccoon blood in me, I guess.

The Alaska boys are going to miss those stainless 77s. I've read several times that the .338s are very popular. Prices might start to go North like the boat-paddles. CDNN has some for about $550. Might not be a bad investment.

By what he shoots and drinks, he should be ridin' a Kamikaze - bump

The shooters of the day loved the 721/722 rifles. Same with the 700s and the 788s.

And ask those who've hunted with a 788 if they don't have "soul"...

I myself could like the RAR a bit better if the stock looked and felt more like a normal stock.

squint yer eyes and wear gloves......