What level of accuracy/precision do you guys expect from hunting weight rifles fired from field positions? No sandbags or bench equipment. Just sticks, packs, bipods, etc. Rear bag or not is up to the shooter.

Hang some pics if you have them. I'd like some inspiration and see what others feel is realistic. Game kills count too but give us the story to go along with it (was POI the same as POA?).

A couple hunting buds and I have a goal to hit 1 to 1.5 MOA targets out to 500 or 600 yards. Each has their own goal but mine is the color on the target below which is roughly 6x6 at 500 yards +/-. A hit on the 12x12 plate doesn't count unless it's in the color. Others are leaning more towards 1.5 MOA which seems a bit big but like I mentioned each shooter has their own personal goal.

A couple years ago I posted pics shooting off a Kifaru pack using a Kimber 7-08. Since then, I switched from a 6x Leupo to SWFA 4-9x, and 120 TTSX to 162 AMAX. It's been dead nuts out to 500+ ever since I switched the scope and load. 600 is still dang good, but I'm the weak link there and beyond with a rifle this light.

First shot wasn't the most stable and would be considered a fail. Adjusted the pack and fired 4 more in quick succession for acceptable hits.

For 20+ years this 338-06 has been my go to elk rifle and it has accounted well. I like lighter rifles.





This past season had me carrying a Kimber 270 Win Montana. It worked too.

I have a feeling you'd like CarlRoss' thread started about a year ago. It was basically a positional shoot (field positions). There were a few guys that posted results, the other loud mouths that swear they shoot sub moa all the time and shoot bigger critters than everyone else kept their mouths shut... Good thread as I didn't see idiots like SLM post anything on it.... . It was a put up or shut up thread...Good one though..

Nice shooting Jason.

My main field position is offhand... "Lightish" can also be very subjective. The last rifle I bought is "light" to me, and this is how it shoots offhand at 100 yards. Fired off as fast as I could get back on target with the pump gun.....:



Windy conditions and heavy bullets... Rifle does pretty good..

Shooting off packs and sticks is almost as good as a bench rest, but is a field position I guess...

As much as I like shooting out to 500-600 yards, I think the 100-200 yard shots are tougher.

Last weekend we shot paper plates at 100y. 2 out of 3 of us hit with our first shot offhand. One shooter missed his first shot but was on target after that. We switched to kneeling and everyone made hits. It's a dang humbling experience as hitting wasn't hard but there weren't any real "groups" to brag about.

We've talked about an offhand mover next.

Light rifle >> light trigger would be my rule #1

Offhand at 100 yards




Sitting with bipod at 490 yards

My regimen goes thusly. Sight in, usually an inch or so high at 100. Shoot @ 200 to verify if 200 is available. All from bags. Go out and find a white rock or some other target somewhere around 200. Shoot from a field position between kneeling and standing while steadying against something, ie. a tree, etc. if I'm still good, I go hunting. I don't waste ammo on measuring groups at this point. Targets are smaller than a volleyball. A hit is good. A miss and I go back to the bench and start over?

At my age, I try to avoid prone and sitting, because it is hard to get up. I admit that I cheat. I use anything solid available to lean against or rest the rifle on. Nothing there, I revert to the sling. Up to now, I do OK, but I sometimes pass a shot when in doubt.

Edit: One other thing. I use a good air gun to hone my off hand. It helps a lot!

Good hunting,

Jack

JT: An air rifle for off-hand sounds like a great idea to me. What do you use? Does it have a decent trigger? thanks

"field positions", all rifles 6.5lbs or less scoped:

a few more.....

westernmassman, Mine is a Weiraugh 55MM. .17 cal.,top of the line barrel break thirty years ago, with a super excellent trigger. It was touted as the premier barrel break target rifle at the time I bought it. It came with match grade receiver/aperture sights. I got a Burris Mini-4X PA scope for it. Tuning up for hunting season, I installed the glass. I could shoot it in the garage or house when I bought it. Our present home is a little short of 10 meters inside, except in the bedroom wing, but the garage is super deep. It was not all that expensive then.

I'm not really an air gun enthusiast. I looked to an expert at the time, told him what I wanted to do, and he recommended the rifle and scope. I think my purchase was more luck than skill on my part.

Best,

Jack

JCM -

Those are the best looking targets

AND the most important!!


I have targets with groups and data

My practice shooting involves Qt oil bottles, gallon milk jugs, anti freeze jugs, etc. all filled with water.

Unlike some who BRAG about all their rifles/shooting/bullets etc. I have many pics of game I've shot. And that's the most important to me. --BTW I've posted quite a few on the 'fire'.

In all my years of hunting I've only seen 2 Bobcats w/o any opportunity for a shot. Kudos to you.

Jerry

In 2013, while on a wilderness elk hunt in Wyoming, my guide called in a nice 6x6. I was sitting on a rock outcropping with nothing in front of me.

The bull came in at a run, and either saw me or smelled me, and made an about face, and started out of the meadow, the same way he came in.

His fatal mistake was stopping broadside at about 150 yds and I nailed him with an off hand shot with my Kimber Montana in 300 WSM with 180 gr Barnes TTSX hand loads.

Both the elk and the shot will stick in my mind for many years to come.

donsm70

Some pics.....first cat was only 85-90yds, but was at a good lope across a narrow opening. Might be best/luckiest offhand I've made. That deer was 212yds with a light gun, side braced on a sapling.

I have fired lots of bipod / prone 1 1/4" to 2" three shot groups at 300 yards with a Savage chambered in .257 Wea with my non-trigger hand under the back of the stock. Even a 3" group is disappointing.

The more contact I have with the GROUND, the better. I tip my hat to those who can shoot tiny groups from their hind legs.

All I usually shoot from is field positions unless working up a load. I have a down vest that I carry with me always. I rest the rifle on my pack and use this down vest rolled up in its small bag as a rear rest in the prone position. This setup works very well out to 800 yards or so which is the load maximum.

I shot this buck this year with this setup. First shot behind the shoulder at 515. Was still on his feet so I put another one in him real fast. All I had was neck and I centerpunched it.

The key to being able to shoot from field positions IME is to know exactly how you can hold the rifle securely the quickest because lots of times you gotta go fast. I can get on a deer prone in this setup in mere seconds as sometimes that is how much time you have.

Budda-Bing!

+1
More often than skill, sneakiness, or quality of equipment - being always ready and being able to shoot fast have made the difference in bringing home game vs. going home empty handed more times for me and my hunting partners than I can recall.

I can build rifles and study gear and gak all off season but always being ready to shoot quickly (even walking in our out of my "hunting area") has accounted for more meat than all the gak and gear put together.

Lots of folks are gear nuts these days but when it's kill time and you're fumbling around because you spent more time working drops from 800-1,000 yards rather than going through the motions of prepping to drop the hammer, this is where it falls apart quickly for internet hunters....

Greg I take it you have done this stuff a time or two????

Amen from the back row.....

hear, hear!

Greg; well said.

Mental and physical preparation matters more than gear.

Gear can be good but you have to have used it enough for it to be intuitive.

Sounds like Greg has been on the front row to the show!

Milk jugs to 400ish.




Travis

Just curious, why jugs instead of steel?

Steel and milk/gallon jugs out to 450. A friend and myself shoot from sitting, prone and kneeling at this range. Out to 250 I'll shoot/practice standing shots.

To answer cast10K's question - I like to see the water explode on a hit. Not to mention this is West Texas, our next drought starts the day after the last rain.

Yep.

The big guys don't often stick around in the open long enough for a shooter to fart around getting ready.

Figuring out how to get into a stable position quickly....really trying to streamline the entire process of going from mentally recognizing "That's a shooter" all the way through pulling the trigger, has been the key for me in several situations.

Another thing I have been trying to work on is practicing in varied conditions, such as just before dark after a long day and I'm tired, in the snow and rain with numb fingers, or I'll do a bunch of push-ups or run to get the heart rate up, then shoot from field positions. Because those are the sorts of conditions one often runs into in the hills, and just like anything the more the training resembles reality, the better one will be when it comes time to do it for real.

Because jugs are free.




Travis

I think it's true what folks are saying about the ability to shoot quickly. It is much different than being able to shoot a nice group from the bench.

I shot the buck below this past Saturday. He's no great trophy, but he's a shooter for the area I hunt. Range was only about 100 yards, at a hard downward angle on the flat below the side-hill/bluff I was on, thick brush, limbs, trees. Buck was chasing a doe, I couldn't get a shot from the first position, had to sprint 20 yards along the side of the side of the bluff then set up as the buck turned to look up at me. 100 yards, straight on shot, very small window between limbs, hard downward angle, 6.5lb .308, maybe 3 seconds to make it (?). The blood on the right antler is from the bullet entrance at the neck jaw rather than the neck chest I wanted...but at the angle the shot was taken from it's a very small difference offhand.

Practice offhand is a lot more fun than shooting off the bench. That said, if game is much past the end of my barrel I'd prefer a rest of any kind. I think it's hard to beat setting up shots on all the game you see, does, small buck, etc...and pulling the trigger on an empty chamber (yeah, make sure it's empty). Choosing the right shot is a big part of making the shot.

I'd agree with most all of that. I love playing at long ranges and the gadgetry involved, but 99.9% of my hunting scenarios come down to how fast I can get on target inside of 200, with whatever support/position/rest is or isn't available in the time or window. I've been getting good deals on bowling pins, and I just hang them/use them like steel.....and more often at 50-150 yards, from improvised or off-hand, and I don't worry about groups, but first shot hits. Groups at longer ranges are merely to confirm my equipment and the nut behind the trigger/weakest link. I've never had to shoot anything made of meat much past 500, so 1MOA is more than enough, and 2MOA isn't too much, though I yearn for less.

I bet you've killed some big stuff....

Does resting on the bed rail of my truck count? Target of opportunity this morning. Was actually pulling up to my 300 yard marker for some load testing when I saw this yote trying to sneak out of the pasture. She wasn't giving me time to range her so I guesstimated 300, dialed in 1.2 mils and let her fly. DRT. When I got to her, I ranged my truck. 268 yards.

John

Heck yeah! Truck, fence post, fence wire, haybale, whatever....beats off handing anything far enough to think about. ATV seats are nice.

I always keep a 1 gallon jug in my 4runner when I hunt. Then after a day like today when I could only find animals that I couldn't legally shoot I can take out my frustrations by shooting the jug a bunch. My wife then tells me what a great hunter I am and we go back to the room and drink before dinner.

mike r

Paper is only to find out POI, everything after that is proven in the field. This is a Sightless pre-64 Featherweight in 270. I use the same ammunition I load for my other 270 with 130 grain BT bullets.

No need for weighing, annealing, powder and primer variations or hand seating the primers. Just full length resize, load up some IMR 4350 and go shooting.

This gun will kill as far as I want to shoot it...

This morning in fact. Faux NULA

CLR sent off to Forbes for his NULA makeover, .270 winchester zeiss 3-9 conquest

Fired from a kneeling position 30 yards meat buck.

I started a regular shoot at our club for hunting rifles from field positions at game targets.

http://arizona-rifleshooting.com/hunting-rifle-shoot-PRGC.html

This is on the same range where we shoot CMP/NRA High Power, Service rifle, mid range and F-class (200 to 500yd with heavy target rifles, either sighted AR-15/M1 etc or scoped benchrest style rifles.

I would say it is an order of magnitude more difficult to shoot a decent group with a lightweight hunting style rifle from a field position than it is for a serious competition rifle in any of the above sports. That is, a guy who can put a 10-shot group in the 10-ring at 300yds in 70-seconds with an iron sighted AR-15 using a coat and sling will have trouble hitting the vital area of a deer target at that distance more than half the time firing slowly 1 shot at a time using a hunting rifle resting on sticks or a backpack.

its not the mechanical accuracy of the rifle, its just so much harder to hold a lightweight gun still from an oddball position.

Poole

Steyer Scout, prone with Ching Sling. 2 MOA

1 shot, 280 yards prone. NULA .260 Remington, 123 scenar:

What does that huge hunk of schit weigh?



Dave

IIRC, a little under 8# all up, but I've got a bunch of stuff inside the stock, that's also with the extra mag inside the mag holder in the buttstock. I'd way it for you but MOM has the scale and she's asleep. Try to get it for you tommorrow.

8lbs "all up" is not light IMO.

Come back and try again when you can afford a rifle that is worth a fugk.



Dave

Jan. 7, me and pard in 2-man-1 rifle stand w Finnish Compact Tactical Rifle & very LW suppressor...about 10 pounds. Off rail, side of tree and two across pard's back. Bobcat @150. Deer 230ish to 350ish. Seven .260 120s, seven DRTs.

[img:left][/img]

Is that you Sctick ?


Jerry

Very Nice

Fantastic Pic


Jerry

Mmm....that's interesting.

I do know that's the standard for a match shooter at 300 with a sling...they expect all "10"s" in rapid fire, and tell me for "slow" fire,1/2 MOA at 300.

You would be wrong, laughably so. A competitive Service Rifle shooter has to shoot 9 ring (13in) or better OFFHAND at 200yd with irons and a 4.5# trigger. The best shooters, like Bernosky, are cleaning a 7in target at 200yd OFFHAND.

A shooting coat adds about 20% to a good shooters score. It helps but it ain't a quantum leap like you're pretending.

I would sort of take issue with the thing about light rifles and hitting deer sized vitals over a pack at 300 yards no more than 50% of the time, too.

I suspect that anyone who practices much could do that in slow fire.

Thanks. That was taken with an IPhone. Sometimes the subject is more important than the camera.

214yds, Kimber 84M 7mm-08AI.



David

You forgot "the position." Nice shooting though, love those groups of one.

Redneck prone.

After traipsing all over every hill in W Texas for 3 days straight, we drove out to the property to begin another hunt. The guide had just driven through the gate and gotten back in the jeep when he spotted a coyote. He quickly stopped and said "bust his ass!"

I jumped out laid prone across the hood and was about to touch one off when he the guide grabbed my shoulder and hissed "There's deer bedded down on that hill - one's a shooter!" I looked where he was pointing in time to see a group of 4 or 5 mule deer nervously standing up. I shot a quick range, adjusted my aim, waited for the wind to lay down and the buck to stop walking, then slipped a bullet behind his shoulder.

David

Everyone is a creature of their environment and a victim of their "experience".

It is hardly "daunting" to gun hasty wicked knots of Precision,while MPAJ from a ruck or similar. Personally,I've no love for 'sticks,but the kids have been using them for years and they reap dividends. I'm no Bipod Lover either and only tend to lean on 'em when gunning an XP-100 or Krunchenticker or perhaps a Chub Play Toy...though never on a true dedicated Killing Rifle.

700yd+ .5MOA LW MPAJ Cluster




Laughingly gunning Flying Ashtrays MPAJ sub .5MOA,while ascertaining come-ups for same. 24" 25-284 slingin' them schitty 90gr SGK HPBT's at 3500fps++. Fhuqk them pieces of schit.

Not a LW in my book,but steering Flying Ashtray BC's at halfa thousand is entertainin' and makes one appreciate the good stuff. Hint.




I'm thinkin' I could take 10 LW rifles laid side by each and easily keep the Hasty CBS Poke from the lot,well within Venison Vitals at the 700yd line,mainly because I have. Hint.

I prolly shouldn'ta taken down so many videos,because I never got around to uploading more

Thinkin' I need a secretary.......................

I like the idea of the 6" target drill @ extended ranges from field position. I hunt a great deal off of a BogPod. I am going to do long range practice from it this year. Am guessing it will be humbling. I struggle shooting my NULA from the bench. Am curious how I will do grouping it from a field rest. The NULA is the only ultra light rifle that I own. I think it weighs less than 6 1/2 lbs scoped and loaded. Elevated shooting positions are rare where I hunt and a traditional mounted bipod or backpack rarely gets me over the grass/brush or corn stubble. I will try the 6" target out to 500 and see if I am fooling myself that I am accurate at that range from the bog pod or other types of sticks. I have never taken a shot over 350 from one of these rests.

For me, accuracy from field positions suffers some to a lot, depending on the position. The more unstable the position the more accuracy suffers. There is a picture below of a cow elk I shot in 2011 using my .338WM. I was shooting off a tall Primos Trigger Stick bipod. It was too tall for my position but would have been fine if I was shooting uphill. Instead the cow was below me and even on my knees I had to stretch out as far as I could to get the right down angle. My position was shaky as hell but the range was only about 262 yards and I was sure I could hit the cow in the kill zone. Not so, as it turned out. Instead my first hit was in the process bones above the spine. After that shot I moved about 10 feet to the other side of the rise so I could get the bipod legs below me and take a stable sitting position. The next shot was placed exactly where I aimed but the cow was still standing so it got another, which dropped it instantly. The last two shots made one large hole in the rib cage. The last shot was gratuitous in that it only hastened the inevitable, probably by no more than by a few seconds. Definitely learned a valuable lesson. And I bought a shorter, more stable tripod as a result, which I have used ever since.

The rifles described and/or pictured below are as light as it gets for me, at least for bolt rifles. Don’t know what they weigh but it is less than my walnut or laminate stocked Rugers.

No pictures, but I took my 2015 antelope with an All-Weather Ruger Hawkeye at 373 yards using a 140g Nosler AB and shooting off a Primos Trigger Stick tripod. One shot, placement couldn’t have been any better.

All of these are Ruger MKII’s.
Left to right, .338WM, .300WM and .30-06.


2013, .338WM, 225g Nosler AB, 487 yards, Primos Trigger Stick tripod


2012, 300WM, 180g Barnes MRX, 400 yards, Primos Trigger Stick tripod


2011, .338WM, 225g Nosler AB, 262 yards, Primos Trigger Stick bipod


2010, .30-06, 150g Nosler AB, 272 yards, Primos Trigger Stick bipod


2006, .300WM, 165g North Fork SS, 260 yards , borrowed sticks

For the Arizona shooters... the shoot Bill Poole mentions above is an outstanding way to practice with your hunting rigs. Check out the link. We have one on February 27th. Hope to see you there.

Mike

Bill's not a pretender. There are past Camp Perry Cup match winners and a past US Palma team member listed in those hunting shoot results. Not at the top I would add.

Seems apples and oranges here. 5,10, 20 shots for grouping in a short period of time is an entirely different ball of wax from a 'first shot in vitals hit'. For hunting, if I can't do it with a light or appropriately light rifle, I'm not gonna go get a heavier one, just to see if it'll help. I'm gonna practice more, load better, focus on fundamentals, and improvise/learn ways to run THAT gun better for the first shot. 1-3 shots, any accurate rifle is an accurate rifle, regardless of weight. You just need to spend more time behind them, cuz they're less forgiving to the trigger nut....but it ain't often the rifle. I'm not getting into experiences of who has shot what or done what.

All except that wet squirrel at the bottom trying to get his last bite of lunch...

I appreciate the feedback and those keeping this thread alive. Kills on steel and critters are even better.

Next time I'm in PHX, I plan to hit that shoot. Looks like a hoot.

For longer shots, what are you fellas using at the toe? A standard bag, wadded up jacket, or what?

For what it's worth Monkey FFukking A Jug off the Kifaru is almost like cheating. No toe bag.