A follow-up to an earlier post about shooting off a pack at 490. This time at different distances and less stable rests. Here's the original post from last week: Shooting from backpack

Same rifle, same scope, same load. Here's 190 yards from a seated position. Seated with elbows on knees, scope at 6x.

I held with the reticle dead-on, figuring that POI would be higher than POA. Data indicated that it should have been 3.5" low.

Wouldn't mind hearing thoughts and feedback from those who practice field positions. It'd be nice to get an idea of realistic expectations.

I'm a hell of a lot more comfy shooting from prone. Shot unsupported with elbows in the dirt at 190 yards. This time I held 0.5 mil high.

Next, I shot kneeling at 190 yards. This time with scope on 5x. Also held high 0.5 mils which should have had POA intersect POI, but you can see I was low.

Goal is to be in the color, so some work needed here.

Last position attempted at 190 yards... this time offhand. No shots connected. I'd have been thrilled hitting anywhere on that 12"x12" plate, but no such luck.

Moved to 304 yards. First group shot from prone, unsupported, with elbows in the dirt.

Still at 304 yards, but switched to the tripod. Elbows on the knees. You can see my wind call was off.

Next range distance was 410 yards. First attempt was unsupported prone. I shot 3 times and only connected once. Tough with no front rest. I didn't bother to re-paint the target and moved-on to the tripod so there are other impacts on the steel in the pic below.

Went back to the tripod for 410 yards. Elbows on the knees.

Need some work at this distance. I think shooting off the pack would have been a slam dunk.

Last one...

Shot at 490 yards using the tripod. I've shot here a fair amount from solid rests. Unlike the previous posts in this thread with the tripod, I shot with a bag between my lap and my elbows. It felt pretty dang solid, and I was expecting better performance at 490 than what I got. At this distance shooting off a pack is tough to beat, for me.

I think you're doing pretty good!

M.O.E.(minute of elk) at 490. With a fly weight rig to boot. Pretty sweet.

What is he black tape on the barrel for?

Right on man! Good shooting. That little one inch triangle from unsupported prone is pretty impressive.

I'm really impressed too. Nice shooting.

Good shooting as far as I'm concerned. Is that an SWFA SS scope?

Your idea of shooting appeals to me a lot more than pics of tiny groups with a dime or quarter laid beside them.

What you are doing is the right way to judge both rifle and skill level. You seem to be doing well on both counts...

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I find that the black tape works as well as blue tape under most conditions, and it does blend in a little bit better with the gray stock and blued metal.

As for the extra wrap? That just follows the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared".

I think you are doing quite well with a lightweight rifle. While I am no turret twister,
I do work out my "drops" to 400. Informal "range work" like you are doing will give you valued experience for the hunting season.

Thanks for the comments fellas. I wouldn't mind seeing how other people shoot for practice. Positions, aids, expectations, etc.

I ran the bolt hard and fast so was chasing brass all over the place. I hustled to set up, and even this little amount of activity got my heart rate and nerves up. Nothing like chasing a critter up a hillside though. Maybe add jumping jacks next time?

We've got an 8x10 steel target at ~600. Next time, I'll see how the Kimber does off the pack. Wind can be tricky though. It was all over the place yesterday and coming from a direction I'd never witnessed before.

For reference, the pics below show 490 off my pack. This would be my preferred way to shoot but the point of all this was to figure out what positions work for different distances and scenarios, while keeping set-up time in mind. I could see a situation where a critter trots away while I'm fiddling with my pack as a rest.

Spare pieces of electrical tape. When I hunt, I tape the muzzle. If I shoot it off, I've got spare pieces on the barrel. Someone asked if it damages the steel but I've never had an issue. Electrical tape is meant to contact wiring so it's non-corrosive and has a wide temp range.

It's the 3-9x MQ. I got it on Black Friday two years ago and almost sold it immediately. It quickly grew on me and might be my favorite now.

In any type of shooting situation while hunting, if it's over 150ish yards, I need to be shooting off my pack. Anything else is a recipe for disaster and a very long day up on a mountain or clearcut.

Why a 100 yard zero?

Not bad. Heck, I doubt I could do that well with such a light rifle.
I suggest you zero for 200 yds. instead of 100.
What this kind of practice does for me is to tell me just what shooting position I must use for a given distance. I'm wasting my time trying for much over 75 yds. off hand for instance.
The other thing is that I can make a 75 yd. shot faster by taking the time to go to a sitting position than I can make hits using an off hand position. At 50 yds. however it's about even.
I found years ago that a good shooting sling really can shrink one's groups by 30%. My current favorite is the Safari Ching Sling. E

When shooting prone,did you use the sling? At one time I shot on a rifle team and I found out that proper use of a sling from prone can be nearly as effective as bags on a table.

The shooting of a rifleman, and let the mere product testers scurry away and hide under their benches, bags and sleds.

I have the same scope and rifle combination. It is quickly becoming my all time favorite. I plan to spend a lot of time with it this spring, shooting 300 to 400 yards from field positions.

Nice work.

I hear you Calvin. We did 100 yard offhand on paper plates and even that was tough. 150 seems like a decent limit while kneeling for now.

There is nothing worse than making a questionable hit on a mountain, and have to burn valuable energy/time finding the animal before you even put it on your back and have to pack it out.

I've got turrets and mil-quad reticle. I can hold 1/2 mil high for 200, etc. just like a BDC reticle, or just set the turret for 200 and hunt that way so I'm not really limited.

I used to set zero from 200 to 300 yards, but any more I have turrets and MQ reticles on everything and it's easy for my simple brain to have my centerfires zeroed at 100, and 22's set at 50.

I'm also going to be practicing in different environmental conditions. To correct for different density altitude the ballistic solver uses a 100 yard zero.

I used the sling a few times at 190 yards (seated and offhand) and at 304 and 410 yards (unsupported prone).

The positional target I've been shooting the last couple years has the following sizes:

7 moa - offhand
5 moa - sitting
3 moa - sitting supported
2 moa - prone off pack

The way I've been shooting it has a timed and an untimed component. Untimed I rarely miss, timed sometimes it gets me. Doing position work, with both dry and live fire, has certainly improved my game. For the purposes of practice I should probably go to tighter targets and start missing more.

I don't have anything as light, or with as much recoil as your Montana. I'd be interested to see how much more difficult it would be equipped that way.

I make my own shoot n see targets so the hits are easy to mark. The farmer who owns the land near my home lets me use his field, so I can shoot safely out to 500 yards. A big hill is the backstop. I hunt with a T3 in 7mm-08, as does my dad. We tend to shoot together a lot.

I use a Primos Trigger Stick tripod from a sitting position. I tried prone over a pack as well as a bipod, I'm a far better shot seated with the tripod.

Here's the drill:

The shooter, in hunting gear (including backpack), walks parallel to the target. The caller says "there he is" or words to that effect. The shooter then turns, acquires the target, gets the range with the rangefinder, then deploys the tripod as he sits. The shooter gets two shots, "take your time in a hurry," and must call them both based on the sight picture when the gun goes off. Hits (or lack there of) are confirmed via spotting scope. Trade places, repeat.

My dad's scope does not have CDS, mine does. He doesn't shoot past 250 yards (damn Father Time) so I get more time to spin a turret. This practice is a lot of fun and it really hones your skills.

Plus, it's a great way to spend a morning with my dad. Expectations are 100% hits in the 14"x16" kill zone.


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My club has an approx 10"x20" plate at 200yds. Offhand practice is a lot of fun. A sling makes a big difference.

Good stuff 4th Point. Looks VERY similar to my AO for longer range stuff out west of Eugene.

I've been thinking I need to set up my LR spots with some steel hanging closer for field position practice. It's humbling for SURE. I need ground or tree contact beyond a certain point; I think Calvin's 150 yards is about right, though I did kill an elk at further than that, offhand.

Great post and inspiring me to get off my butt and practice this stuff more. I like to HIT things so getting prone is my first choice when practicing.

We've seen this one before.... but it's applicable here.... so here's a few rounds off the ruck with a 7lb gun.... wind was howling. Tikka .243 with 87 vmax doesn't cheat a lot of wind....

[video:youtube]rUAsSgxDMhQ[/video]

Here are the results up close.... that's a 12" round with a clay-pigeon for the center circle. Frankly.... I wouldn't have taken a shot at a critter over about 300 in those conditions....



That's a pretty common way to practice, though most 'field shooting practice' is fired at prairie dogs. We tend to shoot a lot off the SFT (tripod) too.

Thanks for the info Carl. Been meaning to see where you're at with the scope mount and zero retention tests, but that is a separate topic.

What distances do you fellas feel comfortable shooting for the following?

Offhand shots out to____?

Kneeling/seated out to ___?

Prone shots off elbows ___?

Prone off pack or bipod ___?




Jason

I'm comfortable with the following.....

Off-hand : 100yds..... tops
Sitting/Kneeling : 200-250yds unsupported, 400yds off the SFT
Prone Elbows : 300yds
Prone Ruck : 500yds.... W/bipod about 600yds