How come so many people don't use 7mags anymore??

They are now made in lighter guns and not such a beast to carry.
Nothing new is really lights out better?
Tremendous bullet and powder choices.
Lots of brass available.

Are people just looking for something different??

Geeze......

Who/why how does this chit come to people's mind enough to want to discuss it to death???

A lot of people don't need a big 7 to shoot a deer at 113 yards. I'm a big fan of the chambering and use a 280AI which is big enough for lil ol me.

The same question could be asked about 25 different chamberings and I still wonder why?

I think when something's boringly good, people just have to try something else.
7RM is so "last century".

Headspace on belt. Brass stretches, not many reloads, and it is expensive, long actions, bullet selection has improved in other calibers also. I have a selection of dies and calibers, if I won a 7mag, it would be sold.

I just have no use for it. Lots of them around the woods when I was a kid as guys got them because they'd "go west someday" but still - my 7-08 does everything I need in a trimmer package with less BS.

Excellent brass
Not bad on powder consumption
Accurate in my Montana

I hadn't noticed that it was any less popular......(?)

It's still very popular in my house, and with who I hunt with.

On the reloading side, the headspacing/stretching becomes moot if you treat it as a beltless cartridge and headspace off the shoulder by means of FL die sizing adjustments or my favorite by using the Lee collet neck sizer. Some of my batches of 7RM brass have an excess of a dozen reloads with 160 gr loads in the 3000 fps regime.

Nearly moot. It can take a bit of a stretch on the first firing. It seems like the 300 Win. magnum is often really bad in this way.

Amen from the back row!

My son is going to get my Sako rem mag , he is a millenial and loves everything about that 7mag.

Good point mathman and very true.

It is very popular here.. I just used one to take my antelope this fall.. I have shot mag.s for almost 50 years never had any problem with brass..

I think the big magnums in general are waning in popularity. The advent of cost effective range finders and quality scopes with ballistic type reticles and/or cost-effective turrets have, "sort of" eliminated the need for a much flatter trajectory. It's speculation; but, I think it applies to many.

Additionally, all of the perceived or actual benefits of the 7 mag come at a cost for little gain over cartridges immediately before it on the cartridge line-up.

I, however, will never be without one.

I had an LGS tell me while the .300 Win has increased in popularity, the 7 Rem has waned. I've seen a lot of good deals on gunbroker with 7 Rem Mags lately but I don't want them either.

My last one was sent to PacNor for a 375AI rebarreling.

Mine is 8.5 twisted Rock and shoots 180 scenars and 195 EOL very well. Next will be an 8 twisted Bartlein 2B. If it isn't a 7mm Remington, its a 6.5 of some sort for our group.

I have no use or need for anything bigger though I have a few.

Because the 270 Win does almost everything a 7mag will.

243 does almost everything a 270 does.

A fat ugly chick can do almost everything Scarlet Johansson can...

A Pabst can do almost everything a Fat Tire can....

A Ranger can do almost everything an F350 can....

You see where I'm headed here....

This here too. Everyone buys big ol guns because they might someday....but today they will shoot a deer at 135 yards (not real sure no rangefinder).

Lots of no experience talking in this thread.



<no confusion-- I have/like/use 7 RM & 300 WM >


Jerry

Had a 300 WM - I'd still rather my 7-08 over that. Can't imagine shooting a 7RM would change my mind given that.

O K .


Jerry

Again - it's for my hunting, not that it's useless for other's hunting.

It offers NOTHING special for ME as I stated over other cartridges that do have very real advantages for ME.

7-08 does all I need with excellent Lapua brass, modest powder requirements, handy rifle. Of course bullet selection is a wash.

Show me why and how a 7rm or the 300 WM which I've already used and discarded is somehow an improvement over that.

And just for accuracy - here's what I posted.

Well now Dogshooter, that one is just being absurd.

The further away things get, the less true this is.

Anyone who thinks the 7 Rem Mag is somehow waning in popularity lives under a rock....or spends too much time reading about trendy new cartridges.

The blather about long actions, belts, and stretchy cases is the stuff of anal retentive handloaders,and has nothing to do with the Top Ten popularity of the cartridge for BG hunting.

It still smokes everything in its category and is right there with the 30/06,270, and 300 Win Mag as an international BG cartridge. Nothing else comes close.

The dreaming that goes on here is astonishing. You people ever get out of the friiggin house?

If I could have one cartridge to hunt the whole continent, it would likely be a 7 Rem Mag.

I agree with Bob. The 7RM is magic, and all those who insult it are stupid, or live under rocks, or never leave the house.

I think you missed the fact that the bait had a hook in it.

By the way, fat ugly chicks need love too, a Ranger cannot tow/haul within 20% of an F350, and I prefer Irish over Belgium brews, but it's ALL good.

Being serious, I don't disagree. But I wasn't serious. Excuse me while I climb back under my rock. I prefer it to my mansion due to location.

IMO, for the guys that liked to buy big guns and shoot them little, I suppose the 300 Ultra stole some of the SEVENMAG's thunder a few years ago.

But I don't see many new 300 Ultras around these days.

7mm Rem Mag is one of the rounds I shoot/hunt with the least. I usually hit right on either side of it (7 STW or 280).

But I would probably be the last to go if I had to start selling.

When properly hand loaded, it is uber versatile.

Bingo....


LMAO...

cwh : No one said it was magic except you, and the OP did not make any issues about any of its imaginary drawbacks which some other people decided to throw into the mix.

The OP was trying to convince us that it isn't popular, which is utterly absurd.

Your sarcasm is not hard to spot.

Would not be a bad choice.

I certainly hope I don't have to choose just 1 but.....

It would be among, 7 RM, 30-06, & 300 WM

As much as I like and have used 270s it wouldn't be my choice for JUST one.


I have used a 6.5X55 for the last 4 seasons and killed W T........ It would NOT be considered.


As Teal said above, he (and every one) doesn't need a 300 WM, I don't need a 375 HH but the 7, 06, & 300 have very wide applications.

Jerry

I did not see many for a long time but the recent long range hunting and shooting boom (pun intentional ) has made them hugely popular around here.

But to bring it back to topic, you see a lot of those rigs in 7RM as well.

How much did they pay you to start this thread?

I have shot lots of other guy's 7mm Rem. Mags. over the years, it is a cartridge that never impressed me so I've never owned one. When I needed magnum power for the game I was hunting I went with the .338 Win. Mag.. I sold the .338 several years ago and now hunt with the .35 Whelen.

I don't see the 7mm and 338 mags as trying to address the same need.

The 7mag is in the ranks of the .284cal like the 30-06 is in the ranks of the .308cal.Some may be a little better,some not,but after it's all said and done,it's hard to beat.

For the not so average guy the big 7 blows away a 270 by a landslide. For the average guy or average hunter/shooter it's really not much different. Same can be said for a lot of it though.

I have noticed the 7 Rem Mag is really popular with southern whitetail hunters. Much more so than it was in PA.

Yeah, I remember it used to be really popular in the 80's...

I've never had any issues with any belted mag brass. The non belted WSM's have been more finicky when resizing than any other magnum I've loaded for... Just sayin..

I like the cartridge. In fact, I plan on purchasing a new rifle soon in 7mm Rem. Mag.

With that said, It does seem that the cartridge has lost a little bit of its popularity. I realize it is only anecdotal evidence but I see fewer and fewer 7 Rem Mags in the stores or at the range or in the field these days. The 90s were it's heyday. At that time, you couldn't walk ten feet without tripping over one of them.

They hold a couch down real well too...

That ^^ can only be understood from experience with both rounds.

I am an UNabashed user of the 270 Win but I've seen the difference.


Jerry

Well I must hate the cartridge I only have three. Did you know you can get 280AI velocity out of the 7mm RM?

The same can be said about the good ol 30-06 too...

One of my favorites and gets used regularly. Only have two at this point.

hee hee, I had to re read that to catch it.
goodun!!


Jerry

That's fine, but I don't want to almost get my deer/elk/whatever anymore than I want to almost get paid or almost be cured of cancer. I have a 270 and .30-06's, but I don't think I wish to be without at least 1 7 RM.

Besides, I define popularity by whether I like something or not. I couldn't care less whether other folk like it or not.

I'd say it's still quite popular, though many folks realize they don't need to burn that much powder to kill anything.

7 RM is my second favorite cartridge. I usually take it along with my 06! It is still very popular where I live. The 7 RM is gaining popularity again with long range guys, because of good new bullet selections. I think it's still the second most popular die set sold for reloading.

Some of you guys seem to miss my tongue-in-cheek chit. Fact is, a 270 Win will do anything a 7mag will out to ~500 yards, given similar bullets. Beyond that, the 7mag walks away and makes hits easier. But 20% more really is about all you get. Few need it, and and fewer can use it. And I've yet to take a deer with a 7mag that could not have been taken with a .270, and I've killed more than most. Maybe some day I will 'almost' kill a deer, and watch him walk away, wishing I was prone with a 7mag. Hasn't happened yet.

Unless it's 600+ yards and elk-sized or bigger, I'll tote a 6.5 140 grain load.

Deluge, your definition of popular is not popular. I like the 358 Win, but by definition, it is not a popular cartridge.

Dammit...made me get all serious and stuff.

Good post 1nut..

Hey nut -

may I make a friendly suggestion pertaining to TnC comments.

I use or or depending on disposition.

Sometimes it's difficult to 'hear' sarcasm in print.


Just trying to help.

Jerry

+

Huh?? My definition of popular is popular with me. And I use 17 Remingtons, a 6mm Remington, and a 444, so I'm hardly using the most popular stuff out there.

Relax. The 270 earned it's popularity literally decades ago. I just got my very first one this month. And actually I'm pretty excited about it! There's a lot of jokin' on this board about the 270, and it's all in good fun.

Where's Big Stick/Boxer...I'm sure he would point out that the 223AI will do anything the 7 RM/30-06/270/243 can do...and do it better!

Hey Jerry,

Can I suggest you take a look at my original post?

I used this one >>>

You're nuttier than I am.

I'm VERY relaxed. Believe me. And I've been shooting the 270win for 33 years. Been shooting the 7mag for more than 20. Read Jack's writings and Elmer's. Still prefer the 6.5 these days for most of my time afield.

I love riling up Stick. Pretty entertaining, that little bastid.

Nut -

well...umm....errr.... you got me there. I didn't catch it but I also didn't think you were serious.


Jerry

I was without one for a couple of decades, but bought another a few months ago. I have always liked the cartridge.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Without sales figures this is all speculation.

The latest I saw recently was 2012 for RCBS die sales. It's in the Top Ten.

You bump into these "most popular" and "most ammo sales" numbers here and there all the time and the cartridge is consistently somewhere in the top ten,although it can sometimes be tough to find ammo manufacturers sales numbers.

In the realm of BG cartridges I have never seen the 7RM listed outside the top ten. It's not speculation. You can Google it.



I trolled around for awhile trying to find numbers but my search skills are limited. I did bump into this from another website. Where the numbers came from I have no idea but they are consistent in general for what I have seen for ammo and die sales.







Hows this for official Numbers?

2011 RCBS reloading die sales:
Rifle:
1. .308 Win
2. .223 Rem
3. 30-06 Spr
4. .243 Win
5. .270 Win
6 . .300 WinMag
7. 7mm RemMag
8. .22-250 Rem
9 7mm-08 Rem
10. .300 WSM

Handgun:
1. .45 ACP
2. 9mm Luger
3. .40 S&W
4. .38 Spl/.357 Mag
5. .44 SPl/.44 Mag
6. .45 Colt
7. .380 ACP



2011 Federal loaded rifle ammo sales.
1. 30-06 Spr
2. .223 Rem
3. 30-30 Win
4. 308 Win
5. 270 Win
6. 7mm RemMag
7. .243 Win
8. 22-250 Rem
9. 300 WinMag
10. 25-06

Thanks for the info. What I was referring to was to the title of the post. I guess I could have been clearer to avoid confusion. I figured it was a bold 'claim' to make without checking numbers. I can see it gaining popularity with more guys interested in long range shooting (at least around here).

Pieter.

Pieter: It's not going anywhere soon.

I know all the target guys are now shooting little 6.5's and 6mm's but the 7 Rem Mag was never in that niche anyway,although early on some used it for 1000 yard competition.

It was in the realm of BG hunting that it became popular.

I never caught magnumitis back in the days when a few new magnum cartridges were being brought out every year. Even when I lived in Kodiak I didn't feel like I needed a magnum when I Brown Bear hunted. I have no idea how popular any of the cartridges are as there's simply not much data out there to draw from. It does seem like when I look at store shelves there are fewer magnums in the racks than there would have been 10-15 years ago. Good bullets, well placed is what it's all about.

You obviously need two things:

1. A basic lesson in reloading.

2. Someone to re-educate you about believing everything you read on the internet.

It's still in the top sellers. Don't think it has fallen out of popolarity, just not much new to say about it. It's a boringly reliable killer for anything in North America.

For years a 7 RM was my go to deer rifle. I used others but killed an awful lot with it. Gave it to my son several years ago. Figured he needs a boring rifle that just kills schitt.

Its still very popular here in Utah, even among younger shooters. Myself? I prefer my 280...I don't shoot game beyond 350 or so.

7 Mag is perfect, just like everything else....

+1.

My 7mm RM leaves a tiny scratch in the brass near the shoulder every time I extract a case from the chamber. I've had up t0 18 such scratches before I tossed the brass. Although I check the inside of every case every time I reload - just as I do for beltless cases - I toss the cases at 12 reloads with no signs of incipient case head separation.

As to popularity, it was all I had for 20+ years, at least in bolt guns suitable for big game. These days the kids are gone, their college paid for and I have 'invested' in a variety of other 'big game' rifles from .257 Roberts to .338WM in bolts and .30-30 to .45-70 in levers. All get used. Last year I used a 7mm RM and .280 Rem, this year I'm taking my .300WM and .338WM.

My hunting partner uses a 7mm RM exclusively.

Why not use the 7mm RM more? Too many toys, too little time.

It seemed like everyone had them in the AL and TN woods in the 1990s especially. I still see a lot of them, but see a bigger variety today than 20 years ago. I was using an obsolete Marlin 35 Rem then. Guess it is even more obsolete now.

I had a Mark X action barreled with a Hart varmint contour barrel and set the case headspace on the shoulder by necking the brass up to .30 caliber, and then back down to 7mm, by adjusting the F.L. die down until the bolt just closes with a bit of resistance. The blasted thing is scary accurate, but like everything else, I moved on to other stuff and haven't fired it in a decade or more.

What I've noticed is that if a cartridge suffers a drop off in popularity, it's because most shooters are like women changing shoe styles every few years.

Because they play with rifles and cartridges more than they use them to actually kill bunches of animals,they are constantly running around looking for the newest and latest cartridge offering so many illusory advantages over their "old', "antiquated" 270, 30/06, or 7 Rem Mag.

This leads to safes stuffed with rifles chambered for cartridges that are out of fashion.

History has proven many of these new 90 day wonders fail to deliver any significant improvement. There is a very small handful of truly ubiquitous worldwide BG cartridges available. The 7 Rem Mag is one of them.

For elk these days I use a 300 Wby and leave the magic 7 at home. But in 1977 as a teenager I bought mine for the day I could use it hunting elk. The physician who shot at my uncles and who loved guns and hunting and could afford to shoot anything chose the 7 RM as his best tool for the job.

After 30 deer and 1/2 dozen elk it still can put 3 shots in a dime at 100 yards and it just kills stuff from 11 to 500 yards....... but I usually tell new hunters to buy a 30-06.

For deer hunting at longer ranges 300+ yards I don't think you can go wrong with the 7 and they carry it at the local hardware store or Walmart unlike a STW or Weatherby. You certainly don't need one for 140 lb. whitetail does at 85 yards.

But it isn't the hottest newest sexiest caliber like it was when I was a kid.

WORD/

Like you I often recommend a .30-06 - to the point that a .30-06 is what I buy for wedding presents for sons-in-law. For Daughter #1 I recommended a .308 Win.


The problem with "deer hunting at longer ranges 300+ yards" is that you never know at what range you will actually be shooting. On one occasion I anticipated a 300 yards shot if I was lucky, 600 if not. Instead I had an opportunity at 25 feet.

300 Weatherby solves all problems. Someday you'll come to the right answer.

This I have a rem and a bee

Isn't that the truth!

It may not be as popular among younger or newer hunters as it used to be, but people who have used it generally still like it!

I have noticed a good many of the people I've hunted with since the 1970's seem too worried about the recoil to even shoot it.

But this is not an accurate fear. I'm a small frame guy of 5'-8" and when they watch me shoot it at the range it blows me around, but really doesn't hurt.
Then when I shoot their .308s for example, they punch the hell out of me, but they don't push me around. So, they don't believe me when I say their 308 actually is just as painful if not more so than my 7 mag.

From the bench:
7 Rem mag 40 rounds with maybe very mild sore shoulder.
Less than 8 lb. 308, 15 to 20 rounds = sore shoulder.

My .300 WM does everything I'd ask a .300 WBY to do. If the .300 WM won't do the job I'll take my .338 WM over a .300 WBY.

Frankly, I'd take another .30-06 over a .300 WBY, and I already have three.

Only you would load a 300 WBY to 300 Win Mag levels...

I was in Gunsmith school (many many years ago) when it first came out. Built one up out of a Mark 1 Springfield action, Douglas supreme bbl and a Yamawood stock with a Leupold of course. Still shoots inch groups and if I told you how many animals it has taken over the years especially the long shots I shouldn't have made you would call me a liar. Love it. I also shoot a 7mm-08 around here because I like the 7 calibers. One last note, anyone who thinks a 270 is as good as a 7 mag I think has a mental issue or has read to much Jack O"Conner.

No bigger fan of JOC than myself, and I love the 270 Winchester (have 4 right now).....but I think you're right.

At least nobody is picking on the lowly 30-06.....

It's simply because they started making production rifles in 280AI.

I have had at least a half dozen 7RM rifles. Never killed anything other than paper and white rocks. Understand, this was from the days when 7 mags tended to weigh 1 1/2 to 2 pounds more than a comparable .270 or .30-06. I was not willing to pack the extra weight for the slight ballistic advantage.

Back in my gun of the week days, I did score a 7 Wby out of the South Gate place built on an FN action that was light enough to use. With a full 6/10" freebore, one could seat the 160s long and make it hummmmm. I kept that one and hunted with it for a season, and it is one that I regret selling, even though I dislike the Weatherby stock design. High tech synthetics were just coming into their own at the time, so that could have been solved.

As I have grown older, light is better and I find that my most used rifles are .308, .243, and .223. Modern bullets such as NP, bonded and mono metal have put the smaller calibers on steroids. I haven't hunted with any of my .270 or .30-06 rifles in many years. I have sold all of my belted magnum rifles. A 7 was the last to go, some four or five years ago.

Best wishes,

Jack

In most of those cases I have seen, its guys that have gut/liver shot a deer or three with a smaller cartridge and lost it, or occasionally a guy who just had some plain bad luck. They figure they can make up for poor placement with more displacement or imagine that it buys them "insurance". The usual progression goes from either 30-30 or .243 to .270/30-06 to magnum. Once they get themselves a 7mm or 300 magnum, at least they quit blaming the gun for their poor results which is a step in the right direction. Then they start being more conservative with their shooting, perhaps practice a little, start placing shots forward of the guts and begin having success....which they attribute to their magnum rifle's superior "knockdown power". Then the next guy comes along and loses a poorly hit deer with a standard caliber. Our hero tells him he used to lose deer all the time until he got his big rifle......and the cycle repeats, and the magnums are really popular with southern deer hunters.

I seriously doubt it.

I maintain that IF a 300 WM will not kill something.......

A 300 Wby can not !!



Yes I know there is 'some' difference but NOT enuff to put the Wby in a diff class.


Jerry

It's not new and improved and not old enough to be called "venerable" like a 30-06.

Come on man. I just laid the bait out for an uber classic CH 15 paragraph reply.

Don't spring the trap before he finds it!

Okay - I'll delete mine if you delete this last post.

Jerry

Here in Montana it's been interesting to watch the popularity of the 7mm Remington Magnum over the decades. When it appeared in the 1960's EVERYBODY had to have one, to the point where a friend of mine who worked his way through college by working at a local sawmill, said they issued every guy a hard-hat and a "Seven Em Em" (which is what most people called them, that or the "big Seven," or even just "THE Seven).

It remained really popular through the 1990's, but lost a little steam to the .300 Winchester Magnum. However, when the .300 WSM appeared a BUNCH of older 7mm RM's showed up on used racks at local gun stores, because the boys had read all the hype about how it matched the .300 Winchester Magnum with less recoil.

That last a few years, but lately .300 WSM's aren't selling like they used to, partly because it's harder to find brass, and many .300 WSM shooters are handloaders. 7mm Remington Magnum shooters can be either factory ammo shooters or handloaders, and there's a lot more easily available 7mm RM brass, and even ammo is still far more abundant.

Lately have been seeing about as many .300 WSM's on used racks as 7mm RM's, which is interesting because the 7mm RM has been around far longer, so there are far more 7mm RM rifles around. I don't think this means .300 WSM fans tend to keep their rifles more, either, as I know quite a few who discovered (thanks to chronographs) that it wouldn't match the .300 Winchester with handloads. They also found it kicked more like a .300 magnum than they were lead to believe.

Many if not most of the used 7mm RM's I see on used racks are pretty old, in particular a lot of tang-safety Ruger 77's. I suspect some of those have just quit shooting very well, due to barrel erosion. Found one at a very low price myself a few years ago and that's what had happened to it.

Sevens may not be as popular here as they were 25-40 years ago, but there are still LOTS of hunters carrying them, especially hunters who don't chase the latest fad. And there have been more fads in the past 25 years.

Magnum craze came and went. Then it came and went again.

I think many finally figured out that they do not need a magnum for most hunting. Or should I say, lots of folks carried magnums that didn't need them. They have their place, but I have seen many hunting woods and thickets with them and often wondered why. If it was your only rifle, for east and west and in between, I could see it.

Another thing is that bullet technology has come a long, long way, in recent times. I feel 223s and 243s, etc. are much more widely accepted as viable choices nowadays, whereas they were often considered not enough gun, or marginal, in the past. I.E. smaller cartridges are now being used on larger critters. Of course, some still will disagree, and are stuck in their way of thinking in this regard.

I can't comment on the trends out west, but cartridges like the 300 Savage, 35 Rem, 30-30, 32 Win Spl, 45-70, 444, etc., are still very much alive and well here during deer and bear seasons. I feel many have gone the magnum route, then switched back to "old faithful". Most of the bolt guns are 308s, 243s, 30-06s, and few 270s thrown in. And with today's bullets, they are better than ever.

I still like the 7-08 best overall for general big game, in bolt actions anyway. Not much it won't do. And that trend isn't likely to change any time soon.

The 7mmRM is still a great cartridge though. One I am very fond of, actually. But I use it mostly for LR shooting and not hunting.......

My brother shot a nice buck with his 7mm Rem Mag, my handloads, using 160 gr NAB, at 534 yards.

Two days prior I killed a buck with my 7mm-08, 140 Partition. 541 yards. Who needs a magnum?




P

As a reloader I have always considered the 7 Rem mag nothing more than a glorified 30-06. Like John said, you see quite a few on sales racks for reasonable prices, especially up here in Alaska as they never caught hold up here like they did in the Western US. But I just picked up an older round top, tang safety Ruger M-77 in one so I can use up some of the 7mm bullets and ammo I have accumulated over the years.

As a newbie to Idaho 25 years ago I carried a .30-06 elk hunting since it seemed like a logical choice. Saw a nice elk out in an open area but it was 350-400-450-500 yards away? This was pre-LRF days and I hadn't gotten used to range estimation in the mountains. Anyway, just a bit too far for me to feel comfortable shooting with the rig in hand.

So I bought a 7mm RM since it was and is a very flat shooting round. I loaded it with 150 grain Nosler Partitions and Bob Hagel powder charges, then practiced with it all year and got to where from prone I could make good consistent hits out to 500 yards.

When elk season rolled around next year I was ready for come what may!

So, of course, a nice elk stepped out of the forest about 30 yards in front of me. The 7mm still worked. Killed a nice deer with it that year as well, it was maybe 45 yards away.

Went back to a .30-06 and had a string of one shot kills for the next 10 years in a row.

His was deader.

Show me where I said I'd do that.

What I said was "If the .300 WM won't do the job I'll take my .338 WM over a .300 WBY." That's a far cry from saying I'd laod a .300 WBY to .300WM levels.

Your reading comprehension problem is showing again.

I killed one at 625 yds. with the 7-08 once. Truth is, I never shoot that far at deer, and the 7-08 will reach as far as I will ever need/want it to......

Only you would load a 300 Win to 300 WBY levels

Biggest reason imho is the tacti-fahgs don't like it. They want to go the municipal range and pretend they are Chris Kyle...tough to do that with a cartridge not used by the military.

Because it's a mm.

I think the military's adoption of the .300 Win Mag has had a lot to do with pushing the 300 over the 7mm.

IMO -- I doubt that.

Jerry

Anybody know why they went with the 300?

7mm seems like a better sniper round.

I thought the same thing but we know the US Gov't is attached to 7.62mm.

220 SMK at 2,850 looks like a pile driver.

Lots of veterans used to the 223 or tactical wannabes out there think of a 308 as a powerful longer range capable round. Honestly with the right bullets and good shooting it is just that. The fact that you can buy them much cheaper than other center fire rounds only helps, the 30-06 falls in that category of cheaper ammo too.

The 300 and 338 Lapua in use as sniper rounds have that attraction too. And they carry more power at longer ranges than the 7mm in almost any flavor. The 6.5 is the new darling of the long range guys and if you want cutting edge ballistic you can go with Nobler, Lazzeroni, the Rum's or 30-378 Bee.

The 7 predated the lrf and gave you point and shoot to about 350 yards on a deer, that was significant to open country hunters. Today with the availability to range over 1000 yards and dial reasonably priced scopes or calibrate drop to reticles that advantage isn't nearly as important.

I told a younger guy that I had started out with a 7mm and always considered the 308 as kind of a piss ant caliber for hunting and you'd have thought I'd slapped him.

I don't know what people use in the 308 but a velocity advantage is a velocity advantage;that goes for a trajectory advantage as well.

If the 7 Rem Mag were not an effective long range cartridge you would not see so many people stuffing them with VLD bullets and shooting at distance with them.

I have never been in an open country hunting situation where a flat trajectory and high velocity were not distinct advantages, rangefinder or not. This is because (a) LRF's don't always work, and (b) not all animals stand around waiting to be lazed while we fumble with rangefinders.

Bob I'm tempted to say.....

or Binos.

But I won't lol


Jerry

Plenty popular at my house. I have 5 of them.

I was at the dentist the other day and read an article in Petersen's Hunting by a guy whose name (IIRC) was Joseph something. He said that very recently the .300 WinMag has over taken the 7RM in sales which was pretty shocking to me.

I've always had a 30-06 and didn't see a use in me having a 7RM or .300 WM, but several of the men I know who have only one rifle (and fit the proverb with regards to caution with such a man) swear by it and their success afield bears witness to their well placed faith in it.

I would immediately suggest that the long range hunting craze may be responsible for its decline, but that makes no sense if the .300 WM is what edged it out unless market saturation in great LR cartridges has given the 7RM more competition? I know I wouldn't choose the .300 WM over the 7RM for that purpose but I don't get all my ballistics knowledge from Petersens Hunting either...

I don't see where you could be wrong but my shoulder hurts just reading that.

A 7mm RM was my only bolt action big game rifle for 20+ years. Bought it because my mentor recommended it and ballistics suggested it took a 200g bullet (with significant additional recoil) to exceed the 7mm RM/160g combo.

Finally scratched the itch and got a .300 WM. I shoot 180g bullets in it and don't see much difference.

Hanco how can that be? It's losing popularity

Cause the 280 AI does the same thing, with less powder, more ammo in the magazine, and a 40 degree shoulder. Enough said.

Laffin....if you boot it to 65,000 psi. I bet some loads are over that.Must be another miracle cartridge....less capacity but the same velocities? How'd that happen?

Please explain?

Even then it gives less velocity....so more pressure and less velocity. Gee what a bargain.

It's a real winner LOL!

And you can't find ammo anywhere on the road. Brass available from how many sources? ONE!? Tell me I'm wrong. I feel bad for you guys.

It's 5+decades behind in popularity and will never catch the 7 Rem Mag. Repeat.....never.

I guess a lot of 280AI users need the extra round in the magazine ?

Plus it's inventor never did anything much in the way of BG hunting so he can be ignored, unlike the guys who invented the 7 Rem Mag,who gave it a few years of field testing before they released it to the public. They were hunters.

Some people will fall for anything...

Come on Bob. Tell us what you really think about the AI.

It's a butt ugly 270....

bellydeep:Pass the standard 280....HOLD the 280AI.

R26 can make vanilla into what AI was. But then again it can make AI into mag. But then take mag to new levels.


So they say, not my gig anymore.....

You can keep the 280 AI. :-)

That has been my feeling as well. Own 3 of the regular ones, 2 7mm Rems, and an STW.

Good looking lefty there.

Sharp!

My late FIL hunted around the US and Canada with his Ruger 7 Rem Mag. He thought it was ideal for the all around hunter.

I've never owned/shot a 280 AI
Never will. I've had 7 Mags for yrs, no muss, no fuss.

Jerry

I like the 280. AI just makes it more fun. Run regular 280 loads in it if you like.

I'd love to see the animal killed with a 7rm that wouldn't have died from a 280. Or vice versa.

Best part of these threads is watching Bobin pop a vein.

Jerry

I've killed game with all of them. Big bull elk and Moose included. Bob is right. If I was going to get serious about just one it would be Remington's magnum.

Why shoot a 280, when you can step up to a 30-06 or 7mm rem mag....

30-06? That puny case? It's gotta be a MAGNUM man...Lol.

Around here lots of RUM's,STW and WSM's are being shelved in favor of the 7RM..

10 years ago it was the other way around. Remington builds them right and they almost always shoot well. And they are a 2.5" case, which gives a guy plenty of room to work with in the mag box, something the others mentioned do not do.

Had a 280 then a 7mag then a 270 win. The 7mag is a great cartridge because it's a great piece of American magnum history (264 WM, 7mm RM, 300 WM, 338 WM, 458 WM) and if you buy one you won't be satisfied, you will always something more and something less, which is actually a positive trait in a cartridge

The farthest successful shot I took on any big game was with a 7mag and a wolf. Great memories.

Well you actually hunt instead of theorizing about 40 degree shoulders and one more round of magazine capacity, so the 7 Rem Mag makes sense to you.


MM Im glad you're enjoying the dialogue..

280AI fans are easily entertained....blow the dents out of a 280 case and they get all excited.

Yrs. ago I 'used to' be concerned about ONLY 3 rounds in the magazine so, I'd also load hot + 3 = 4 total rounds.

After a few yrs of hunting "LIMITED" like that I realized that I had NEVER shot 4Xs at game. So I quit thinking about it.

When (IF) you ever hunted a #1 there is NO magazine.

Jerry

It's no secret I've been a 7mm RM shooter since I started big game hunting in '82. Still have that rifle and it still does the job. Last year I bought one of those $499 CDNN Ruger Hawkeye rifles with the idea my daughters might use it instead of my .257 Roberts for hunting mule deer and elk.

At the time CDNN had quite a variety of chamberings available. Rifle weight, recoil and capability were my key considerations. Recoil and the fact that I already had them eliminated the 7mm RM and .30-06 from consideration. A 7mm-08 didn’t offer much past what my .257 Roberts could do (110g AccuBond @ 3163fps and 120g A-Frame @ 2947fps) so it got dropped as well. That left only the .270 and .280.

My choice was an easy one - an All Weather (stainless/synthetic) .280 Rem. I don’t kid myself that the .280 Rem is vastly superior to the .270 or that it can perform on par - even in the AI form - with the 7mm RM. It isn’t and it can’t. Nor does it need to. The big advantage and the deciding factor was I already had a lot of .284" bullets on hand - including over 200 North Fork 140g SS hollow points and boxes of Barnes 140g TTSX, Nosler 140g AccuBond and North Fork 160g SS. Buying a stash of .277 bullets didn't seem to make any sense.

To do it over, I’d make the same decision. The .280 Rem has a relatively low SAAMI pressure standard and staying within those limits results in fairly gentle recoil and long case life with good velocity and trajectory. Works for me.

CH: I like the 280....always have.

Just don't have one right now as I am kind of up to my ears with rifles in that category.

What happened to that pump?

Oops.....I forgot about that! Yes i still have it.

See what I mean?

Hah! Put a belt on that thing and they might pee their pants!

I think that the bigger mags like the 7 STW and Utras did steal some thunder from the 7 RM. I am starting to see more "traditional" cartridges along the lines of .270/.30-06. Maybe people realized that they didn't need that much range. Maybe the realized that they shot better with something that kicked less. Maybe the cost of ammo played into it, I don't know that I have a answer for sure

The answer is to buy more rifles, more ammo and don't get hung up on one fn cartridge....

Has the 7RM lost popularity, or is it just not talked about as much because it's been doing its job so reliably for so long that's it's gotten boring? I.e., is it more fun to talk about your wife or Carrie Underwood? Judging from what I see in the basement here it's not the wives.

I think there is an element of that and websites like this can create a somewhat warped sense of reality as to what the "average" shooter is using. At public range days about 99% of the rifles are chambered in 270,30/06,308, 300WM or 7RM on the line. Maybe it's losing popularity amongst the loonies but joe six pack didn't seem to get the memo.

So according to Wikipedia it was Remington's competition with the 264 Winchester Magnum.

Could it really be that simple? Bean counter attempt at grabbing market share?

Maybe we really had it all in 1903 and didn't know it.

I don't think it was potential .264 WM buyers that were buying 7mm Rem Mags at a record pace in the 60's. Just because there weren't that many potential .264 buyers. I think it was all the guys trying to pick between the .270 and .30-06 who realized with the 7mm Mag they could have the best of both worlds.

10 years ago I found that my 7x57 carbine was not the best platform for the very long pastures of an old dairy farm that I started hunting.

I considered several magnum cartridges, the 7mm Rem mag being one of them.

I chose the 270 WSM instead. I figured that being it had 277 caliber bullet it just had that gay factor all over it. Being the 270 WSM was kinda gay, I thought maybe, just maybe I'd see a unicorn whilst hunting with it and let's face it guys, how cool would a unicorn mount look on the wall...right? So I bought a 270 WSM instead of a 7mm Rem mag.

Dan

I like a 7 rem mag in a Sako rifle. I like the 264 Win mag in a Sako also. You can't go wrong with either. It's all about what a person likes. I like Blondes also.

1962= 7mm Mag
2015 = 6.5 Creed?

I'm convinced we try to solve problems that don't exist with glorified marginal returns.

That's how I see it anyway. I'm more likely to buy the right rig in the "wrong" caliber solely because of a particular opportunity rather than creating what I might consider the utopian package from the ground up.


In other words, I'll scratch an itch I didn't know I had if a deal comes along.


EVERY rig has concessions in one way or another and it's a matter of picking a choosing which ones matter and which ones don't.

Cartridge to cartridge comparisons boil down to the numbers for me, and they never lie.

I had a 264 before I had 7mm RM's. The 264 was a fine cartridge. I shot a lot of crows with it. I also shot jack rabbits, raccoons, and badgers. I only shot one deer with it. I sold the 264 after that. Bullet selection was only one each for game, IMO. That was the 140 grain Nosler Partition made on screw machines.

The guy I sold it to used it on long range PD's. It was his first center fire.

I have a bunch of 7mm bullets on my shelves. I own or I've owned, 7 TCU, & 7 International, 7x57, 7mm-08, 280 and 7mm RM's. Plus I cast bullets for the 7mm.

Of all those cartridges I suppose I like the 280 best. But I have 3ea. 7mm RM's. The two 700 7mm RM's I have are less than 1 MOA with loads I've tried. The Ruger 77 is about twice that in MOA capability, still not bad.

The 7mm RM is a mild recoiling rifle that even my arthritic shoulder can handle easily.

I for one do not believe that it has lost it's popularity.
However, there seems to be more and more cartridges coming out and more loads for old cartridges (270) that are in the category of "I can almost get 7mm RM performance with this amazing cartridge." Which is as good of praise as it gets, I suppose.

I agree PLUS a NEW toy.


Jerry

And that's just it. Some guys constantly look for new beer to try, shaving cream, toothpaste, underwear, what the hell else.

But there's no toothpaste forum with a bunch of bored guys sitting around looking for a distraction on an otherwise boring day.

A couple years ago I bought a beautiful custom 7 Rem Mag. It was built on a Santa Barbara 98 action and shot as good as it looked. The fly in the ointment was that it weighed 10 pounds and I couldn't imagine ever hunting with it so I moved it along.

Part of the fun is debating cartridges. I have never owned a 7mm and don't see the NEED. But if we talk about WANTS, I know I want one.

But to be honest with you, I prefer debating cartridges around a real campfire with a near by wall tent and not the internet.

Sure why not, isn't that also why Rem introduced SAUMs to battle WSMs for market share..?

Ive wondered why big Co. like Rem & Win waited so long to plunge into the proprietary cartridge
magnum velocity market, considering Weatherby took the plunge decades before.

Les Bowman developed the cartridge with Mike Walker of Remington.They tested it on game at Bowman's ranch. Bowman had been using the cartridge for several years in wildcat form and in the hands of himself, his guides,and clients the cartridge and rifle accounted for a lot of game.

Bowman had been looking for a cartridge that had the ranging ability of a 300 Weatherby, but kicked less. He and Walker sold it to the Remington big wigs and they introduced it i the new Rem 700. It was a huge success.

You can goof around with trivial stuff like the 270 WSM and the 280AI but you won't beat the 7 Rem Mag in that category.....

And they almost missed the boat on their .300 RUM. They originally were planning on something with less velocity than the Weatherby. Jim Carmichael told them to exceed Weatherby by some margin or forget it.

Heres a good little read on that >

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/5/29/remingtons-big-seven/



If i was going to goof around, id actually go the 7x61 S&H.

The story of the Ultras is cool as well, starting back with the NASS cartridges.

It was interesting when the Ultras came out because I was working at a LGS and here in the South, where you really do not need Ultra level performance, they were marketed more as a "premium" item rather than a long range one. The early Ultra M700's were nice and Remington had a great reputation back then. I came so close to buying one with my discount. We had a waiting list. However, after a couple of weeks word got out what actually firing one was like...

Excellent read. Thanks for the link!

Bob, you are so right.. BUT most don't have a clue who Bowman and Mike Walker were.. I think we might be getting up there... Between you and I, I think one thing that kept Elmer moving along in his 80's was fooling with guns.. He was always looking forward.. I didn't always agree with his choices, but I knew why he made them! Are you going to make it west this fall?

Interesting read for sure, thanks for the link. Started reading an old hunting book written in 1909 and it mentions guys discussing rifles and things like "a quick twist makes a quick ball"'

The more things change the more they stay the same. Guys have been arguing about this schit for ages.