Is the 70 gr Barnes TSX too heavy for .223, resulting in speeds that are too slow for reliable expansion in deer-sized game?

I have lined up doe tags for two inexperienced hunters. I am proposing that they use my .223 Tikka 1-8" twist. The supply of big game capable bullets in .22 caliber was limited here, so I bought the 70 gr TSX. Muzzle velocity is 2800 fps or so, according to Barnes data.

So is that bullet too slow starting at that velocity? I like Barnes, but I tend to push them pretty fast. Don't want them penciling through.

Not trying to start a fight, but I don't have any experience with the .223 on deer.

Check out Tman's experience with the 62 gr and .223!

Check out Tman's experience with the 62 gr and .223!

Can you provide a link? I have never been able to get the search feature here to work worth a dam.

And please don't make me look through the "Is the .223AI enough gun" thread. I might not come out for days.

SkyPup on M4Carbine shot a lot of stuff with the 70gr TSX.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?94628-223-Barnes-70-Grain-TSX-Performance&highlight=

My girlfriend punched a WT buck through the lungs with a 55gr TSX out of a 223 last year.

NEVER AGAIN

It was a long tracking job. Bullet did very, very little damage.

I've had very good results with the 53 gr TSX in the Vortex loading and also the 62 gr Fusion factory load. I think I've killed 5 total - 3 with the Fusion and 2 for the TSX. The blood trails were better with th Fusion but all fell within 40-50 yards.

Kills were with an 8 tw Tikka and a Montana.

I'd use either loading again within a couple hundred yards as long as the shot angle was favorable

This article discusses that very bullet.

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/ammo/223-remington-viable-deer-cartridge/

Not used the 70's but the 53 and 62's do great. After shooting a few with the 75amax I stopped switching back and forth between play and killing bullets. Have some guns now that have never shot anything but the 75's. I just deer hunt with them though.

No problem using the 53 gr tsx. Especially if you catch a shoulder.

GreggH

One can always use the 60 gr partitions

That's my favorite!

utah, T shot several animals this fall with the .223 and 62 gr.. His final doe antelope shot though the lungs. It ran three hundred yards and was still alive when he got to it.. Shoot him a pm.. He is a cool guy!! I have shot a lot of stuff with .22 cal. rifles from the Hornet through the .22 Cheetah.. I am never at ease shooting game with them.

What 62 grain bullet?

I wouldn't use the TSX for lung shooting in that small of a caliber myself. Put it on bone and they work great.

If you have any 55 grain softpoints available, they work very well on deer in the 223. As will everything heavier than that.

If you want to buy factory ammo, just get the 62 Fusions and be done with it.

Hazen, I probably was a bit vague in my VBTE post concerning that doe antelope...I did not shoot it with the 62 TSX. I apologize if I wasn't real clear about that. That doe left chunks of lung all over the sage for those 300 yards and when I gutted her after finishing her off, half her lungs were gone. She was just a stupid tough doe! Can't totally blame any bullet for that performance.

Anyhow to the OP, I would suggest one of the lighter TSX bullets, if legal and you're determined to hunt with a 223 this year. While my sample size is pretty small (big buck mule deer and a big antelope buck), I was less than impressed with the performance of the 62 TSX at vanilla .223 speeds. Maybe it was a coincidence...maybe not.

I'd suggest a different bullet (certainly not the 70 TSX) or a much faster round to spit them out of.

Good luck with what ever you choose.

Thanks Tman for clearing that up!! I love .22 caliber centerfires,but I am not sold on them for shooting big game!!

FWIW. Several years ago I took a nice little 8 point with a 50g Sierra softpoint in a 221 fireball. Roughly 80-100 yards and he was dead before he hit the ground. Also have shot several deer with the 55g soft point in 223 with equal results

Why not just use a deer cartridge in the first place?

No problem Hazen...I am sold on 22 CFs for deer/antelope, but have always been a lung shooter. Back in high school, I killed several deer/antelope with my 'ol .22-250 and wally world special 55 grain bullets (the old white and orange box winchester loads). Animals rarely took more than a few steps when lung shot with that combo.

Even the big buck mule deer I shot this year fell instantly to the second 62 TSX...which is why I couldn't 100% write off the first round as being a "failure".

It is all about what a guy has confidence in...

My son-in-law had this same experience with a .308. Two through the lungs and a quarter mile later a finisher was necessary.

We used the Federal factory 55gr. which I think is made by Hornaday, these were pre-fusion loads. Out of around 8 deer only one made tracks and it went about 80 yards only. These worked so well never bothered to load up any dedicated deer loads.

I also shot about six deer with the 17 Rem. all were drt's except one Doe ran about 100 yards. That one was an on the shoulder shot and the bullet shattered on the scapula but shrapnel made it through and did considerable damage mostly to the onside lung. These were the original Rem. factory loads that were reputed to be bonded.

I usually reserve the calibers smaller than 6mm for youth hunters and culling as you do need to be a little more selective in shot placement with them.

65 grain Sierra started at 2880 fps and through a small deer shoulder and heart at 160 yards. Didn't make it 15 yards.

The 70g TSX is a long bullet and will crown the engine room. The 62g TSX is a better choice. The added velocity never hurts with a mono bullet.

Powder Valley still has some Silver State Armory 62g TSX ammo in the Special section for $15 a box.

Nosler 64gr Bonded Solid Base works great. Punched through both shoulders of this 110+ pound doe at 120yds with a quarter size exit. Shot with my 8" twist .223AI.

That is my thinking exactly, especially since the Tikka magazine limits the OAL. I did find some 62 gr TSX locally, and will switch to them. Thier book velocity is 3100 fps rather than 2800 for the 70's.

When I went to buy 62, I couldn't find any so I bought the 70s. Last year my second oldest shot his first deer with the load and it only made it a few steps.

Last years pics: (I've posted this before on a similar thread.)



This picture is from two weeks ago. It is my eleven -year-old daughter's first deer. SHe was shooting seated and using a tripod. Muzzle velocity was 2650. I haven't looked up impact velocity, but the deer was crossing the field at 335 yards. The bullet took him behind the shoulder. He ran about 50 yards, leaving a very heavy blood trail. HE stopped to look at us and was tippy. SHe hit him again under the chin while he was looking at us.

When we cleaned him, the lungs were wrecked and there was a quarter size exit. So, in my limited experience, I have been impressed with the 70 Barnes.

I've seen heart shot deer make 300 yards...

Some die quick, others have tenacity... plunk any bullet in good vitals, in the center and most all deer die. Pretty simple.

BTW if you wnat bigger holes, go to a larger gun and this thing they call a ballistic tip. Though I've never lost antyhing to a barnes of ANY flavor ever....

As far as 223s and deer go, I use the 70 TSXs exclusively. Have shot nearly completely lengthwise through 2 deer with them. They work better than well IME........

Nice to see the youth pounding the deer !

I've shot 2 deer and a hand full of pigs and many coyotes with the 62 TSX via 223AI. All have been bang flops !

I have shot several deer with the 53gr TSX and the 62gr TTSX and both done great but I loaded the 64gr BSB for my daughter in case she made a less than perfect shot and I knew they would expand and penetrate leaving a larger exit.

The 53gr TSX was impressive on this small buck at 70yds going IIRC 3,400+ ft/s out of my .223AI. At the shot he took two steps forward then tried to do a back flip DRT.

Entrance


Exit

Oh deer (pun), here we go... all these are deceased via .223, all one shot. (Mind you, the boy can shoot)

I've shot a truckload of deer with a .223 using various projectiles with no issues. Having said that, projectile choice is important. We've had best success with the 63 grain Sierra, 70 grain Speer and 64 grain Nosler bonded (which is currently flavour of the month, because we've only shot around 6 deer with it and that's a small sample size for us, but it's looking good so far).

I have no experience with Barnes projectiles, however with a .233 the answer is location, location, location (placement, placement, placement).