Suppose you were designing a new cartridge. Low recoil and considering all actions.

Your choice a rimless cartridge that would work well in bolt actions, semi-autos, single shots, pumps and in a BLR. The case would have a good shoulder on it.

Second choice a rimmed cartridge that would work well in all lever guns, not so well in pump, semi-auto, or bolt actions (though some might try to make a bolt action that would use this cartridge.) The rimmed cartridge would not have much of a shoulder at all.

Now the cases would have an exact same powder capacity.

Which would sell better...






Then consider a 30 Remington and a 30-30.

Funny, I was going to suggest the .30/30. Winchester has already made the M54 and the Model 70 in .30/30 (and the latter in .35 Remington, come to think of it).

Remington did the M30 in .30 Remington, too, IIRC.

Add the old Savage 340 to the mix, and the Savage 170, and you could say most of those things you mentioned had been done (Model 8 Remington in .30 Remington).


Those old guys "knew stuff" back then, didn't they?

250-3000.

How it would sell is absolutely the key.

Chamber the rimmed cartridge in a short, light carbine flat enough to ride easily under your leg in a saddle scabbard, and that's the latest version of a legendary platform you've been selling like hotcakes for 28 years. Chamber the rimless cartridge in two unproven new action types that are nearly as long and heavy as an '03 Springfield. Then give the rimmed cartridge a 12-year head start when high-velocity cartridges (which both were at the time) were just catching on.


Okie John

OK lets name them
.308 Winchester
.307 Winchester

They would look like this...



They would have a case length of 2.44" a bullet diameter of .323" and have enough taper to feed smoothly in just about anything. I'd set the pressure limit at 60,000 PSI and twist barrels at 9.3:1, perfect for 200gr Partitions and Hot-Cors.

We'd call them the .323 PPM and the .323 PPMR.

That top one looks suspiciously like an 8x57 mauser to me.....

Don't see it myself, but, bet they would run slick as snot through a military 98 action...

Rimless? The 300 Savage has been around a long time already.

The classic old 30-30, has to be the choice guys.

I would like to see a .25 Creedmoor, likely will never happen.

Doc

Bingo!

Agreed.

Match it with the 30-40 Krag and we're done here.


Okie John

Yep!

.25 Niedner

Bug

Seriously, I feel 'trying' to design a new cartridge would be efforts in fruitless frustration and wasted investments in time, money, effort, & advertising.

eg - consider how many cartridges are ALREADY languishing in sales and how many are obsolete because of lack of interest - not necessarily lack of utility.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just an attempt to be objective.

Jerry

Seriously, what parameters are there that haven't been done as a wildcat or factory cartridge? Performance will simply duplicate something that already exists.
As for rimmed and rimless versions of the same round, Europeans have been doing it forever, just with bolt and break-open rifles in mind. 307 Winchester is a latecomer and far from an original concept.

2 pages and no one has mentioned the B-29?

For Good ReasonS

Never got off the ground (pun)

No JOC/JB/BM/EK to tout it

No Factory Ammo to feed it

et.al.

et.al.


Jerry