Guys are buying the things by the ton, and they work fine for occasional use, but how are they holding up? Guys here have a lot of ruger americans, do they hold up to thousands of rounds a year like a 700 or similar?

If they do then great. If not let's report on the dirt

Got about 1200 rounds on Ruger Am. 223 and she's still puttin them in the 10 ring. Drag this rifle all over the place with nary a hiccup. So far so good...

I've put a little over 2000 rounds through my SS American .223. Still stacking 'em in there. I think I've cleaned it three times.

David

I had a Remington 783 that shot very well but the argument here was that it wasn't going to hold up like a 700. I know a guy who shot so much has worn out a 700 trigger.

So I guess the question is if the rifle is light and has the correct twist what's the difference?

Obviously an axis isn't the same as a 700 but what about the American or the x7 or the Patriot or?

Often wondered the same about the Bic rifles, and Salvages for that matter.

Ive got a 700 on its third barrel,over 10K rounds per barrel,and its third stock. I truly don't know if the Bic rifles could stand it..maybe so..maybe not.

Usually the Bic rifle buyers aren't the kind that shoot those volumes anyway...

My Savage .223 is 6 years old and has about 1500 rounds through it now. Still shoots sub MOA, nothing has broken and no appreciable wear on moving parts. I imagine you'd shoot out several barrels before you'd wear out the action/trigger mechanism. Of course that doesn't mean you might not have to replace an extractor, firing pin, spring or something along the way but that can happen with most any rifle. Alot of the new economy rifles are too new to tell. Time will tell.

I'm sure they will last the lifetime of the shooter. If not, plastic parts are easy to replace....

I'd wager they wont be passed down through the generations like pre '64's and such

My RAR in 243 has 1400+ rounds down range the throats grown .375 sense new and it's been cleaned 5 times. I was running 38 grs of rl17 but the groups are opening up. Today I shot some loads at 39, 40, 41, and 41.5 grs the 41.5 was the best at about .8" the rest went over 1" at 100 yards. I think once the 500 hpbt I have to load are gone the barrel is going to have to be swapped out.

I've wondered the same thing myself, especially with regard to the magazines. Some, at least, appear to depend on plastic retainers that are integral with the body. For the truly long haul, where are you going to get replacements in the future? I also wonder about the ones with little bedding blocks embedded in the stock, as opposed to ones that are part of the action. That might make replacement difficult and/or expensive.

Most buyers are either beginners looking for a bargain or guys who want to just shoot the crap out of them and then move on. Neither group is likely to have serious issues, so it's all good, especially when you can get an accurate complete rifle for less than a replacement barrel or even a barrel for an Encore or other switch-barrel. My inner geezer is more likely to look at used stuff than cheap, new ones, but that's just me.

The only budget CF rifle that I have with over 1K rounds through it is an RAR-P in 223. It shoots fine and seems to be as tight today as the day that I took it out of the box. The only change that I've made to it was to bed the barreled action in a Boyds laminated Heritage style stock. The Boyds stock is a whole pound heavier than the factory plastic, but the ergs and balance are much improved and, to me, easily worth the added cost and weight.

It would be interesting to know how many shooters put 1,000 CF rounds or 5,000 RF rounds through a single rifle during the entire time that they owns it. It would also be interesting to know what that data looked like plotted geographically.

a lot of my rifles its no big deal to put 1000 rounds thru them....and when rimfire 22 LR was readily available... most of my 22 Rimfires have way more than a 1000 rounds thru them...

My CZ 452 had more than 30,000 put thru it in the first 3 years I owned it...

range time and sage rats shooting.. really doesn't take that long...

last rifle I picked up was a Weatherby Vanguard in 223 I've had for about 60 to 75 days...In that time its had 500 rounds put thru it.. I keep a log of that...

10 trips to the range, and 50 rounds each visit...

all handloads....

same for a Howa 223, thats about 5 months old or less...about 750 rounds thru that one...

once again, range trip... 50 rounds per visit...

handloads...

I am having no love affair with the Ruger American Predator I have, the other one I gave away cheap...

but in all actuality. I think as soon as Ruger works out those magazine issues with the rifle... I am sure it will hold up for multiple barrels on it.... upgrade the stock. and your good to go...

old rifles... I had an opportunity to sit around the campfire many years ago with Chick Donnelly. A local gunsmith, with some notoriety, as he was one of the last guys to train under P.O. Ackley.....

at the campfire I asked Chick, a man who could have any barrel chambered he wanted, what was his favorite round for elk and then for deer hunting...

he pulled his rifle out of its case, and told me " I bought this rifle at the PX in Japan when I was shipping home from Korea in 1953.....a 721 Remington... I can't really tell you how many barrels have been on this rifle in all the years I've owned it.. but what I can tell you is that this old gal has hunted all over the world, and has taken countless head of game of all sizes... and I can tell you, everyone of those barrels and every one of those head of game was taken with on cartridge... a 30/06... never needed any more, nor needed any less".......

pretty good argument from a man that could have anything he ever wanted... his hunting rifle for his adult life was one Remington 721, and his one cartridge was a 30/06....but even under hard use, that old 721 never failed to keep on doing what it did, from the day it was manufactured...

wonder if the "Bic Rifles" as Ingwe so elegantly calls them, can say the same after 40 to 50 years of continuous use...

I've got a Ruger MK II Stainless in 30-06 with the old boat paddle stock for my hard use lifetime rifle. I expect it to still be used by one of my sons one day long after I'm gone.

Recently I've picked up a Vanguard S2 in 243 and Tikka T3 in 270. I really like both of these "Bic" rifles a lot the Vanguard being heavier and feeling more robust. I carry the T3 more due to its weight and general handling characteristics. Figure the T3 has more prone to break parts than the Weatherby but time and use will tell.

I want to get a Ruger American but just don't like their flimsy stocks.

Most people don't shoot that much, last forever for most guys

My RAR .308 is right at 1000 rounds. 1/2 moa with Hornady 150 IL.

Same here.

I have my FFL, but my rifle buying consists of trolling the classifieds for used quality. There are a few rifles I would consider buying new, but very few.

Lots of Pre-64 Winchesters still being banged around, so I'm guessing they hold up.

Seems yesterday's budget rifles are today's 'classics'


I see people falling all over themselves for 788's, 721, 722 etc and lets face it, any mid 60's=70's Winchester was a budget model, at best.

I don't think that the "BIC Rifles" were ever intended for years of heavy or continual use. They were, are, intended to offer entry-level, economically limited, and/or casual shooters an opportunity to buy into the game. Once they are in the game, they typically go forward in 1 of 3 paths; they get serious about the game and seek to upgrade their skills and gear, they remain casual players and are satisfied with their skills and gear, or they decide that the game isn't for them, so they stop participating and either sell their gear or put it in the back of a closet or in the attic and forget that it is there.

I think that the majority of the people who are regulars on this site fall into the +/-5% of shooters who reload their own CF ammo, own a dozen or more firearms that may be modified in some way to better fit their wants/needs, and who shoot regularly.

Most of the guys who I have hunted with and who I have observed at the range and while afield over the past 50 years have not been serious shooters. Rather, they fell into the +/-95% pool of shooters/hunters who don't reload their own CF ammo, who own fewer than a dozen firearms of all types, and only shoot occasionally. I can't begin to count the number of rifles that I've cleaned and/or "tuned" before hunting seasons for people. Those rifles have often come to me with a year or two worth of lint and dust on them, which is particularly noticeable on the scopes' objective lenses, loose screws, dirty bores, etc., etc. IOW, the sort of neglect that I doubt that you'd see on any firearm owned by a 24HCF regular, even on our "truck guns" and "loaners".

The point being that the +/-95% pool isn't likely to wear out a rifle through use and although some of those rifles may suffer cosmetic injury due to neglect, they will probably remain functional for multiple generations to come.

But, I'm not a great prognosticator, so I could just as easily be totally wrong.

I don't "get" that either. Some of those old Remmys are fine shooters, but have no visual appear whatsoever, and most show their age.

I look for old commercial Mauser-based rifles. Some are a little plain, but the bones are solid and well worth spending a few bucks on, or even a lot of bucks sometimes. Most have low round counts because people generally didn't sit at a bench and pour it downrange like many do now. All I've bought have been decent shooters and just have a quality feel to them that you don't get with the bic rifles, or even some pricier ones. People fuss about the wobbly bolts, but that wobble is designed in for a reason.

So what if ten grand worth of ammo wears out a $300 rifle?

I don't see the problem, but still, I doubt it will exist to any great degree.

What could conceivably wear out on a bolt action rifle that couldn't be easily replaced? If anything, these throwaway rifles have made things more modular and easier to replace than before. Instead of having to screw a barrel on and finish cutting a chamber, one can use a barrel nut and a headspace gauge in a few minutes. If something goes wrong with the bolt, the bolt head is easily replaced.

There are a few exceptions. I think the 783 has a press fit barrel that truly does make it disposable once that barrel is done. Of course, you can spend $1,500 on a Mauser M12 with a press fit barrel too.

I have a hard time believing my "budget" Howa 1500 won't last as long as any other rifle I own.

Howa is just as good or better than Remington as far as I can see. But one is 299 and one is 549.

I've had this Mossberg Patriot for about 3 weeks now. Its in 7mm-08. Havnt had it out to shoot it yet, but holding up fine so far!

I have a patriot 308. I broke it before even shooting it..the rear action screw will only take about 4 inch pounds of torque before the plastic bedding block cracks..

That said i got a replacement and made an aluminum pillar to take the stress, its accurate, has 700 rounds out of it and only had it 3 weeks.

Wont buy another one, what a [bleep] design that plastic block is. nice idea but they need to make it out of something that will take some pressure from the fasteners..

True, but they were made out of steel..These new plastic POS are more fragile than the toy guns of the 60-70's.

Bic? Like plastic lighter Bic, or what?

I'm easily confused. In my second language bic means 'understand'. As in "You bic Nguyen?"

No bic.

On a higher plane, my youngest gun is near 20 years old. The oldest somewhere around 130 years young. They all shoot, and shoot well. Maybe the most used in a Beretta 686 12 with something around 20-25K rounds behind it. Broke a firing pin back in '99 and that's the only gun that ever broke on me. There be a couple that have some new parts due to improper function, but hey, if you were 85 years old you might need a new part or three yourself.

Probably the most used/abused gun I ever had was a new issue M16. Put around 40K rounds thru it, lubed it often, cleaned it the day I turned it in. Never jammed, not once. First 5-6" of the barrel didn't have much in the way of rifling at that point. Never tried the "semi" position on the safety, dunno if it worked or not. Colt built some good guns back then.

The only thing "budget" about the Howas is the price. They're all forged steel, with one-piece bolts that take down without tools, and have real hinged floorplates that work perfectly, based on the ones I've had. The only issue is that for SS, you have to go with the slightly pricier Vanguard now, but since you get a better Tupperware stock, it's still a good deal. My favorite push-feed.

I would be inclined to agree..I like Howa.

after buying one.... and not counting the great prices out of Whittakers.. as much as I love a Howa... I think the extra $100 or less that a Weatherby Vanguard costs.. it is well worth the extra coin...

Kinda like the difference between a Biscayne and an Impala...

John you might have a point. At least I like the ergs of the Vanguards better...though they are both made by Howa. I had one years ago under the S&W name and I shot the schitt out of it and was happy!

I can compare my Rem783 to my Tikka and 700P and see and feel the differences. Remington obviously saved money with the screw on barrel, final finish and plastic stock but I don't see why it won't last mechanically as long as either gun. It is smoother, more accurate, and 600 rounds later, more reliable with a better trigger than I thought it would be for $249. I think it was a pretty good investment to play around with .223 in a bolt rifle.

Whats the difference, just the stock correct? They both have 3-pos safeties, correct?

Id bet rust and neglect trashes more rifles than does high round counts. By that standard I bet a lot of the new cheap rifles will die just because folks won't value them the same way they might a thousand dollar rifle and hence many will be rode hard and put away wet.

V2s have 24" barrels.

Whittaker's has Howa 1500s for around $350 shipped, while the least expensive V2s that I've seen have been priced around $490.

When introduced the Rem 700 was considered a budget rifle.

Really?

I thought that Remington price the 1963 700 BDLs to compete with the Winchester 70.

The 721/722 was a budget rifle. With the 700, Remington put lipstick on the pig.

Are the Howa's 22" barrels? Really wish you could get the 2-pos safety.

But first, they put it on the 725.

I like Howa too.

I guess they look like regular rifles to me. The Ruger looks hokey to me.

Wife has a .223 and I have a .270, doubt we will ever wear them out.

I have heard of gunsmiths who will clean and mount scopes on Remington 710s, but wont repair them. I have seen a few 710s that have been used and abused and they arent pretty after the stock color fades.

The entire 700 series of rifles was criticized at the time for taking too many shortcuts. The "washer" for a recoil lug, the sheet metal extractor, brazed on bolt handles, the round receiver, stamped checkering, etc.

I'm not saying this to be critical of the rifle,just put it in historical perspective. In spite of all of these manufacturing shortcuts the rifle is considered a top tier rifle today.

I suspect that many of today's budget guns that we criticize for taking too many shortcuts will prove to be top tier one day as well.

Injection molded plastic stocks all but demand a Krylon custom paint job and a can or 2 of Krylon will last for as long as you need to dump the 710 on some unsuspecting buyer.

The tubular receiver and "washer" recoil lug were characteristics of the Savage 1920, made from 1920 thru 1928. It appears that Remington might well have started with the Savage design and modified/evolved it when they designed the 721/722 series post-WW2.

I'm not saying this to be critical of the rifle,just put it in historical perspective. In spite of all of these manufacturing shortcuts the rifle is considered a top tier rifle today.

Yeah, after you replace the bolt and trigger.

Yep, pretty sure my "budget" Tikka's bolt handle wont fall off, nor will the extractor break. I wont even go into the AD discussion