I finished my Kimber 8400 30-06 this week and it is sweet - Kimber 8400 action, barrel cut to 23", bedded, weighs 7lb 6 oz with Talleys and Leup VX3 2.8-8x36. I'll start serious load development this weekend and shoot it Monday.

Which got me to looking at my next rifle build. I have all my purpose-built rifles covered in smaller cartridges. The subject of Africa and a moose hunt keeps coming up with my Dad. He's headed to Africa in May and wants to plan a follow up.

I'm chewing on the next step up in on-game performance from the 30-06 shooting 180 NPT at 2800. I have a M70 EW 300 WSM that shoots fine and has killed an elk or two. It likes 180 NPT and moves them along at 2950. Ballistic gacking indicates there really isn't much difference between my loads in 30-06 and 300 WSM. I could likely get 3000 with a 180 NPT but the gains are marginal.

So, I've owned a couple 35 whelens and 338 WM. More ballistic gacking indicates the 300 WSM (or 30-06 for that matter) shoots flatter than a 35 wh/338-06 using Partitions and doesn't leave anything on the table if you look at kinetic energy. I'm not a big believer in KE as a measure of on-game performance; think there's more to it than simple energy numbers. I do think bullet diameter and bullet weight matters from the standpoint of internal damage - larger diameter = bigger hole/more damage; larger bullet = more penetration plus shrapnel affect when considering Partitions/cup-core bullets.

Enter recoil tolerance. I've had a number of 338s and they all recoil if you load them to full potential and/or have a sub-8lb rifle. The 35 wh isn't a picnic in 7.5 lb rifle with +P 250 grain bullets.

So - what is the next logical step up from the 300 WSM shooting 200 gr Partitions that can be had in a 7.5-7.75 lb rifle with 'tolerable' recoil? I'm leaning to the 300 WSM/30-06 200 gr NPT as the 'big rifle' in my safe but am always curious how you guys would crack that nut.

I'd submit you don't have any nuts that need cracking...

Kinda arriving at the same conclusion.......

You may want to investigate revamping your 300 WSM EW to a lighter platform...

I have the same M70 EW in 300 WSM. Mine has a 3.5-10x40 Leupold in X-Low Talley Lwt's. I swapped-out the steel follower with an aluminum one, and the factory bottom metal with a PT&G aluminum one. Those two items shaved 2.5 oz's. I'll be selling the B&C stock and putting it in a Bansner or Brown. All-up weight with sling and rounds will be around 7.75 lbs. RL17 sends the 180's at 3,030. It's the most accurate rifle I own, and I really like its weight-forward feel over the lighter Kimber's. It doesn't offer that much more than a 30-06, but for me it's more about the rifle it's chambered in. It's a better LR rig than the Kimber. A bit heavier and more barrel weight.

Only other thing I'd suggest is a 375 H&H.

Like me, you sound bored

sounds like it is time you found out the greatness of a 30 whelen! great round to play with . happy hunting.

Crack a different nut. You are the perfect candidate for a 7 Mashburn Super Magnum.

I swear sometimes we are related. I literally priced a Bansner last night at a gunsmith I've used in the past to lighten the M70. $740 finished - painted, bedded, finished, Decelerator. Should weigh 24-25 oz when finished.

I agree with Brad here.

My initial thought for you would be a light 375 H&H

I've had two that were in the 7.75-8.25lb scoped weight range and they were great. But, I built them mostly due to boredom and they went down the road. But... I'd do it again if the "need" ever arose.

I've used the 28 whelen alot through the years and the 30 whelen sporadically. I've always had a 300/338 WM in the safe for years so with the 280 and various 300/338, it didn't see much use - at least until I found out elk aren't bulletproof and smaller cartridges did the same things at the ranges I hunt.

Bob and I discussed this about the time he did his. I didn't pull the trigger because at the time I had both a 7WSM and 7RM. The 7 RM had a 26" barrel so never saw the benefit. Now I have a 270 that likes Re 26 so am pretty content with it for reaching out.

TDN - I've had a couple 375s and they weren't bad to shoot but both mine weighed 9 lbs with scope. I'd think a sub 8 lb 375 would be more recoil than I want to deal with.

Sucks when reality sets in, doesn't it?

When I read the OP, my mind immediately jumped right to "get the current 300wsm exactly how you want it" and you're done.

Of course, that's the pragmatic thing to do. I'm probably not one that should be doling out advice on pragmatism. *grins*

The next step is the 338 Win Mag, but since you have one already and nice 375 H&H would be a step in the right direction.

Really unless going after Brown Bear the 30.06 will do all just fine.

375. Do it in sub 8lb if you like but it won't be any fun to shoot. About 8.5lb bare with a good fitting stock and recoil pad and you can shoot all day once you get used to it. You won't need a brake.
With the variety of bullets available in 375 you are good to go from blacktail to DG and listen to your dad and go to Africa while you both still can. You will never regret it.

9.3x62

I've got a bunch of experience with the .30-06, .375, and 9.3. My 9.3x62 is 7.25 lbs, kills just like a .375 but seems to kick like an '06.

Twin sons of different mothers

Obviously that's the route I think you should go, but I'm biased.

BACO still has the pre-2008 Aluminum WSM followers on hand for something like $15.

Or, if you want to go a little further afield, the 9.3x64 Brenneke.

For American hunter from mountains of TN .338WinMag with 250gr bullets.

This kind of thread gives a guy sore nuts. For sure...

bwinters,
My thought is if you want to move up from the great 30-06, I'd leap over the 300WSM and look seriously at the 300 WM.. In my book, more separation of performance with the 30-06. Above that would be something like the 300RUM or 300 Weatherby. But, I'm not a fan of either one.
I have a .308 Win. as my base, a 300WM and jump to a 375 H&H M70 Alaskan.
You could devote the 30-06 to 165's and then keep the 300WSM and devote it to 180's or 200's and have some separation of performance that way.
Its fun to debate and consider the possibilities as we allow winter to pass by.

There is very little you can do with any 338 or 35 caliber cartridge that you can't do as well or better with a 30-06. Next step is 375 and if I were buying one today I'd look hard at the 375 Ruger.



I'm gonna disagree. A 30-06 with top end 180 gr book loads is going to be at or near 2800 fps. I know some push 'em faster, but I've not seen any loading manual that lists a faster load.

A 300 WSM will easily beat that by 150 fps and some loads 250 fps faster. At best a 300 WM beats 300 WSM by 50-75 fps and it needs 10-15 gr more powder resulting in noticeably more recoil.

I'll have my head cracked for suggesting this but as you're using Partitions rather than high BC bullets, what about the 325WSM?

Crikey mate. Only an Ausie would suggest such an atrocity...

I'm a nostalgic fan of the 8x57...

Kimber 8400 in 325 WSM makes a nice mountain rifle

Ha ha... I was thinking damn, this guy probably likes the 8x57 mauser too... That's all my dad ever used while I was growing up. He bought me a 30-06 when I was 12, but I knew to respect the old 8mm...

If Africa is on the schedule, jump to the 375 H&H and save yourself a bunch of time and money. An '06 and a 375 cover an awful lot of game.

We're going to Africa twice this year. On the shopping list is warthog, bushbuck, eland, sable, roan, kudu, two leopards and a hippo. Guns are a 300 H&H and a 375H&H. Probably won't get everything I'm looking for, but it won't be because of the guns!

(The 300 is going only because I like that rifle better than my 30-06s! The difference in performance isn't worth talking about!)

I agree w/ the 300 WM. I've had several, Ruger 77. Rem 700, BBR, now a Win 70.

From my Oehler 33 at 15' from muzzle I easily get - 3120 + with 180 NP and very reasonable case life. That's more than 50-75 fps over the WSM.
Now we have some newER powders that might push those 180 or 200 grainers even faster.

Jerry

I've had both a 338WM and a 375H&H for over 30 years. I like my Sako 375 because it's light enough to carry around, yet the recoil is very tolerable. The Win mod 70 375, (and I've had 4 of them) is anything but light. I like the rifle, because it's stainless, but I keep the Sako AV. Mine is in a McMillian stock and I couldn't ask for anything better.

RL26 baby.....

BSA

I strongly suspect that Rl 26 will do that but haven't tried it yet.

Jerry

A step up would be a 6.5 Creedmoor.

I jump from an '06 to a win classic model 70 375H&H.
The 375 mod 70 is 9 pounds, but I don't want to cut one ounce off of it, because the heavier rifles really minimize recoil.
To me, cutting one pound out of my rifle (12%) and adding that much more in recoil would be a stupid move on my part.

I try to avoid out-thinking myself as much as possible...

Not if he is shooting Partitions.

What is inadequate with the .30-06 that you need a 'step up'? As you've said, gains are marginal and if you stick with a .30 and 180g bullets the cost in recoil and/or rifle weight always goes up.


If planning for Africa I'd look at a .375.

C H, I agree with you but Mr. Winters said this,

"The subject of Africa and a moose hunt keeps coming up with my Dad. He's headed to Africa in May and wants to plan a follow up."

With "Africa" as an objective, a step up could have merit.

Jerry

jwall stated my thoughts. In NA, I have no need, especially considering I'll never pay the $$$ to hunt a coastal brown. In Africa, the equation changes a bit - lots of big bitey creatures. If I ever go, I'd love to hunt eland - I find those big SOBs really cool.

I'll probably end up with a 9.3x62 if I need a bigger hammer. I keep hearing stories of guys 'walking all day' in search of various animals. I guess carrying a 9lb rifle in 100 degree heat is the 'effort price' to pay. Thought I swore off 9lb rifles 15 years ago........

I'll likely lighten up my 300 WSM and shoot 200 Partitions or 165-180 TTSX if I make the trip across the pond.

Not as bad as you might imagine. Most of Africa is fairly flat and low elevation, although there are exceptions. Also most stalks are not all day unless you are after elephant. My 375 at a little over 9lb has never been a problem.

If you need more than a 30-06, then you need a lot more. I've chosen the 30-06 and 338 WM for my next few years of hunting in the Mountain West, the Pacific Northwest, Canada, and Alaska. For Africa, I MIGHT swap the 338 WM for the 9.3x62.

I also spend a lot more time in the gym, which makes everything seem lighter.


Okie John

I'm in the same boat winters. I've got my 84L Montana dialed in with165gr bullets and a Classic M70 SS in 300wsm dialed in with 180's. Gonna load up some 200's for it and can't for the life of me see needing much more. Moose are easy to kill and unless I end up back in Alaska hunting brownies I can't see needing/wanting any bigger calibers in my stead.

What loads you considering with 300 WSM?

200 partitions. This 300 wsm really likes RL-17 shooting 165's-180's really well with it. If I can get it to shoot the 200's with typical RL-17 velocities it'll do all I'd want.

^^^^^
This or an 8mm Rem. Mag.

I thought you were done with higher recoiling rounds?

If you can't kill it with a 30-06 you need to step up your hunting performance.

If you want noticable difference in "on game" performance then go to a 375.
That is not the same thing as getting a flatter trajectory.