As some modern cartridges are run in modern actions, would this be ok.?

It becomes magic. 😁

We are talking about in a Modern rifle DESIGNED to handle that pressure right?

If that is the case, I would think it would resemble a 6.5/06...

Is the "magic" as safe as othes at this level.?

Any reason NOT to run it to this level in MODERN actions.?


Will the brass weather the storm as well as others.?

There is a good discussion going on about this in the Nosler forum. The experienced folks there say 60K is no issue at all in a modern 6.5x55 of reputable manufacture. I will be pushing mine to that level.

358wsm,

I'm pushing a 130 accubond at 2925 out of a tikka T3 with 22" barrel. I suspect I'm at least 60K as my velocity exceeds book by 100 fps. After 5 loadings brass shows no signs of loose primer pockets running Lapua brass. I've not seen any pressure signs whatsoever.


Trystan

So does one actually own the instruments to make such determinations?

interested in this question, as well?

For whom it interests.

Do a little search IN Reloading Big Game Rifle forum,

UNDER Campfire Pet Loads find " Good 6.5x55 loads.

Our Denton posts a few loads HE has pressure tested.

I'm using 120 NBT- IMR 4350 - 3000 fps from Win 70, 22" bll.

It's safe in my 70.

Good Luck

Jerry

That given, the load is likely fine in Denton's unit. If one is pushing the edge, however, YRMV.

Common over here in Norway..

150.000 active shooters.. and they are loading it to its full potential!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC-lNcDumps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cnAwRJc7Sw

I bought a Tikka T3 Swede out of one of the early shipments to the US, s'posedly one of the last 2 nationally in Gander Mtn according to a store mgr down here ...FWIW the faster I ran it the better it shot. Really scary great accuracy in 120gr Sierra PH's, and was getting there at barely sub MOA's in 130gr NAB's when I decided that I was GTG with what I had and never pushed it any farther. This is exactly why I just bought another one in Darriks last blowout.

But as others have said, never had any pressure sign or loose primer pockets...and even got 6-8+ loadings out of some used range pickups when hunting in deep brush I had started using after I lost several Lapua's and PO'd me bigtime
Ron

Glad to see some responses, thought I might have to apologise for asking a dumb question.

SAAMI pressure for the .260 Remington is 60 kpsi. The 6.5x55 Swede has approx. 6 to 6.5% more volume than the .260. Using the 1 to 4 rule (velocity increases at 1/4 the rate of case capacity), you should be able to best the .260 Remington by about 1.5% at the same pressure. So, if the .260 gets 2900 fps with a certain bullet, the Swede should be capable of 2943 fps. If the .260 gets 3000 the Swede should get 3045 and so on.

I have a .260 Remington T3x and a 6.5x55 MRC 1999 (selling that one), and this is the guide I used. Since I'm a fairly conservative reloader I just loaded to .260 Remington velocities, in my rifle it took about 3-4 grains more of the same powder in the Swede to match the .260. That's basically what John Barsness says in his "Handloads That Work" article:

.260 Remington: Around 41.0 grains of Reloder 15 does it with100-grain bullets, whether for varmints or lighter big game, at around 3,200 fps. With 120- to 125-grain bullets either 44.0 grains of H-4350 or 46.0 grains of RL-19 does the job at close to 3,000 fps in standard-length barrels. With 140s try 44.0 grains of H-4831 or RL-22 for 2,700+ fps.

6.5x55mm Mauser: The powders that work in the .260 also work in modern rifles chambered for the old “Swede.” Up the powder charges 2 to 3 grains with the same bullets for about the same muzzle velocities.

http://www.tulprpc.org/attachments/File/Handloads_That_Work.pdf

is the 4:1 ratio now a rule...:)

Rule, theorem, postulate, hypothesis, name it a rose if you wish. I did not come up with it but am going off of the research of someone with some credibility in this field who did and who has heretofore never steered me wrong.

I'd call it a conjecture, supported by much empirical evidence.

I was hoping you'd be along to add some precision to the terminology.

I'd call it at least a rule of thumb or even a working theory.

After it gets repeated on a couple more internet boards, it will become an immutable physical law...:)

Again, for the long weekend crowd.

Thanks.

Take a look at the 6.5 Scandi. It is essentially a +p version of the 6.5x55 with slightly different chamber and throat specs. There is data on the European powder sites. Not sure of the exact pressure but around 58-60,000 as the methodologies are different than SAAMI specs.

In my 6.5x55 I am hitting 3130 fps with various 129-130 grain bullets and R26 but I am going to drop down half a grain or so but will still be north of 3,000 fps in a 24 inch barrel. This is the magneto speed reading haven't checked it on another chrono yet.

I suspect my load is at 62-64,000 psi based on quickload so that is why I am not listing the charge weight. Also why I am cutting it back some as I don't want to be over 62,000 albeit a questimated 62 as quickload is off for R26.

tied to gets a reamer for it a couple years ago...no luck

I see them listed at Midway and others but it is more expensive usually in the custom category and is not worth it as brass is no longer available. Use a standard 6.5x55 reamer and the American shorter throat set to what bullets you'll use.

The SKAN and the Mauser are interchangeable except in really tight chambers.

The brass is strong, I can testify about the Lapua version.

The Swede can be really fast, too fast in this case.

A study on what NOT to do...

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/9781434/1

DF

I would have no* fear in running 6.5x55 at 65 Kpsi like I would a .270win or 270wby
( * in a modern action) ...same with 7x57.

Yikes. I'd say that action has officially been tested with proof loads now.

Thanks Tejano. Checked w/two makers but Midway did not cross my feeble mind...

Went with a 6.5/257--on a 98.

Yeah, I think I have the fastest Swede on the Fire...

Like they say, don't try that at home...

DF

That reminds me of a T-shirt I saw on Amazon.com yesterday.

I'm glad my shirt (and eyes) came out intact.

I have great respect for FN Mauser actions.

It was more scary looking back on it than at the time. I was pretty isolated with limited cell coverage.

Stuff happens and I've been a careful reloader since the '60's.

Be careful; don't think something that stupid can't happen to you...

DF

DF, I ran that load from the other thread through QL and it spit out 79861 psi... it predicted ~3500 fps though so the actual pressure may be north of that.

Yeah Toad, it was definitely a tad over SAAMI specs...

To the guys wanting to run the Swede at 60K in a good action, go for it. If 80K won't blow one, 60K shouldn't, although 80K is pretty tough on primer pockets...

DF

DF,

Had a similar experience in the past working up .375H&H 235gr TSX loads with H380. Was expecting ~2800 fps on the chrony. Got a reading north of 3200 FPS. Went back to the loading bench and the balance beam weight was +5 grains of where I thought I set it. I assumed that it was operator error on my part. Has not occurred since. However, diligent to recheck each time now. Very thankful for the chrony. Other than some minor primer flattening, had no other outward indication of excessive pressure.

So how is case life at 80,000 psi with the fastest Swede in the West?

A quick aside for those of you who have had overcharge issues. I am a pretty casual reloader. So that I might learn from your mistakes (and perhaps others may too) I'd like to ask you if some of my practices would have precluded the issues you had. If I am throwing charges, I will check a few along the way. Once I have finished charging the cases I take a flashlight and look down into my charged cases to ensure uniformity prior to seating bullets. Would that have prevented your overcharge issues?

Being an anal, meticulous, thoroughly uptight serious reloader , I would say this: it might not absolutely prevent an overcharge but it sure don’t hurt. I do the same thing, throw all charges and then double check with a good LED flashlight shined into each case to check that the powder level is the same from case to case. I’ve caught a bridging problem more than once doing that, where one case’s level is a bit low and the next one is higher than the others.

That procedure won't detect a problem if all cases have the same higher powder level unless you are familiar with the normal level you would expect.

Do the same thing here and it has saved my bacon on at least on occasion. That being said, I would have no problem running a good strong action in 6.5X55 to 60K, as long as one was cautious about it.

Are you talking about the cartridge which, on the vihtavuori.com website is listed as "6,5 x 55 Swedish Mauser/ SKAN?" If so, that's not a different cartridge. It's just the CIP standard-pressure data for actions newer & stronger than the '96 Mausers. The Norma manual available in N. America doesn't differentiate, it just lists the 6.5x55 at the CIP max (380 MPa).

If this is _not_ what you're referring to, could you please point me to what you are referring to? I can't find this 'Scandi' or SKAN listed by CIP.

The Norma site has two different loading levels for Mauser and SKAN somewhere around 51,000 and 58,000 respectively. The only chamber diagram I have seen is on Steve's page with no source listed. PT&D listed reamers for both so should have diagrams.

The SKAN was another attempt to standardize chambers for modern rifles like the Husquaverna 2000 (?) between Sweden, Norway and Denmark. It raised the pressure some but was very short lived as far as I know. All but tight target chambers are usually interchangeable from what I have read.

The pressure for the SKAN that I have seen is 58,000 psi. CIP did not adopt it for some reason maybe because of the likelihood of it getting shot in old Krags.

I suspect most long range target shooters reloaded and those that used factory were fine with the original loading. This is all conjecture as there is not much information in English on the SKAN.

If you have a 6.5 x 55 Swede, why change it?????

Tejano, thanks. Only Viht lists 2 different pressure levels, that I can find. Norma loads to CIP standards only, Viht loads to the CIP standard, plus has downloaded data available for older, weaker actions.

I don't actually think there are 2 'different' cartridges. Even Viht says to use what they label as "SKAN" in 6.5x55 SE marked guns. I think there's just some downloaded data available from some sources (like Viht) for weaker guns, and full-pressure (which is 380 MPa) CIP data. I'm sure you're right about multiple, nearly-identical reamers being available. Shoot, that's the case with lots of cartridges that have been around for more than a couple decades.

Anyway, thanks. I don't want to take this any further away from what you guys are talking about.

Visual inspection, after charging, before seating, is never a bad thing. It only takes 30 to 60 seconds. And may save some excitement later. I always do a visual inspection when charging a full block of cases.

However, for my situation of load development (3 cartridges at a time), it would not have made a difference. For load development I charge, seat, charge, seat, charge, seat, 3 cartridges and then go shoot. Given that it was both a new cartridge and a new powder for me at that time, I did not have any idea what the "normal fill level" was supposed to look like.

1 for 1, primer pocket sorta stretched, primer sitting in the action.

DF

My situation exactly.

If you're loading a bottle neck round and the powder fills only part of the case, that's not easy to do (or think of).

If the powder can be seen just below the neck, as in most cases, that's an easy one to monitor.

DF

I probably wouldn't change a darn thing, but I would like to see the 130 class hit the 3000fps mark. Guess you could say it's a personal thing.

What would the 130 VLD or 130 NBT velocity be in the Swede at 60K?

DF

DF,

Actually, I am not really sure about that, but if anybody knows, I'd sure like to hear about it myself.

Look in a manual for the velocity a .260 Remington would get with that bullet. The 6.5x55 at the same 60 kpsi pressure should get about 40-50 fps more, all else being equal.

DF,


I DO know that "some" powders in the 6.5x55 when loaded to 64,000 psi will get the 130's to 3000 fps.

If I guessed RL-17, would I be getting warm...?

DF

I see no reason why the 30-06, 280 7x57 etc can not be ran at 308 pressures with Modern guns and supplies.

BINGO..!

64K is off the Swede reservation, but really not that reckless when one considers other rounds at 60K and even higher, using that same action. Swede data has to take in account older military actions.

I can testify that Lapua Swede brass is some really good stuff.

I have other guns for that level of performance, but I wouldn't be afraid to push this Swede to 64K, after all it's an 80K gun...!

Well, sorta...

DF

DF, my Swede is built on a DWM 98 Mauser action, I run the 140 gr Partitions in Lapua brass to near 2800 fps with RL-22, bet I'm real close to 60K.

You da man, gunner.

You'd be the one to know where the ceiling was...

Seriously, thanks for the info. A Swede with good brass in a modern action is probably one of the most under performed round out there, largely due to old data and the niche it's been in all these years.

DF

LOL, I stopped at near 2800 and fired a half inch three shot group and thought, hell, I'm done, IIRC that load development and zero took 8 total rounds fired from a newly built rifle.

That said, I have had no brass failures, overuse signs, or any lug setback/head space issues to near 300 rounds fired so far, I do love the little round, well mannered, not too loud, next to no recoil and punches game much harder than one would initially think.

Think ya'll should check the Alliant Powder reloading data website. Its interesting that Alliant shows two sets of data for the 6.5x55 cartridge. One set is for military action 6.5x55 and other is for a commercial action 6.5x55.

In short, what is a MAX load for one of their recommended powders in a military action (94/96 or M38 Swede military rifle) is actually a lower charge than the START load for the same powder in a commercial action 6.5x55 rifle.

Shoot with a gent who has a 6.5x55 SKAN built on a Remington 700 action. Generally, with a powder new to him, he will start near the recommended MAX load for the standard 6.5x55 and work up from there till he has pressure signs with his brass, hard bolt lift and etc. Chuckle, sometimes he doesn't get too many reloads out of his brass.

Me, I own a 6.5x55 built on a Stevens 200 action and a couple of 6.5x55 Swede military rifles. The reloads I shoot in my military Swedes does not have the velocity of my reloads in my Stevens 200.

How long is your barrel?

Blue, My barrel is a 25" 8 twist #1 contour Shilen.

Too much work and worry imho. If you want a 130 at. 3000 buy a 270.

Ouch...

DF

ROTFL

What length of barrel? I'm pushing 2920 fps with RL17 in a 22 inch barrel with the 130 accubond.

I keep hearing 140s are shining with RL26 but don't know if there is any validity to the claim or not ☺


Trystan

No worries DF, lots of people find that various types of "work" (say lifting a heavy pan of a few extra grains off the scales) can be "too much" for them. I ain't one of them.

I've loaded quite a bit for the Swede, both modern Sako's and a CZ as well as a 38 Mauser. I don't have any problem going to max and a bit beyond in the modern rifles, I do believe that the reloading info in the manuals are aimed at the older 96/38 Mauser's and perhaps even the older Krag's. If one looks at the European manuals they often are quite a bit hotter for a max load than the US manuals. One does have to be reasonable however.. 100fps is not really going to make a difference to me.