All,

Did a search and surprised I can't find this kind of thread. Interested in getting a 45-70 and curious if there is one considered to be the best and able to shoot all the modern loads?

Current thinking is to get the Marlin 1895GBL and maybe send it to Grizzly for their Outback Guide Scout Package.

Don't have a lever gun but have other big bores, curious to get opinions from the fire.

Thanks

I have a JM Marlin GBL and out of the box it put the first five shots at 75 metres touching when I first sighted it in.

It’s been consistently sub MOA with three shot groups at 100m with just about any load I’ve tested.

There may be bette lever guns out there but I’d be suggesting look for a JM Marlin as a first option.

Drop the dough and get an 1886 Winchester, longer stronger action.

I'd go 1886 Winchester but if you do go with a new Marlin plan to have it sent off to a 'smith to be sweetened up. They can be a little rough.

Anything but a Henry

Best is subjective but Ive had no complaints with my Henrys or my Marlins.

Had a Browning 1886 SRC. It was so nice I could not bear the thought of taking it into the woods. Sold it & bought a Remington Rolling Block in 45-70.

It all depends on how you're going to use the rifle. If you're OK with iron sights go with an 1886, if you want to scope it, get a Marlin. You can fit a scope to an 1886 but they look clumsy and to me feel awkward to use.

As mentioned in an earlier post, the 1886 is a longer and stronger action. It's also a little heavier. With some 1886 actions you can load shells to a 2.8" LOA whereas stock Marlins are limited to 2.55". 45/70 rifles tend to have no throat so to take advantage of the longer length you need a bore riding design or lengthen the throat. Having said that the Marlin can still digest some fairly hefty loads, just don't go thinking its a 458. The internet is full of examples of Marlins in 45/70 have come apart due to some reloading mishap.

All the late model Winchesters are fitted with a tang safety and rebounding hammer. Early versions were somewhat troublesome but later ones seem OK. Diehards have the internals swapped with Browning parts and have the opening where the tang safety was welded over.

Personally I like the pre side safety Marlins. Browning 1886's are good but the carbine buttstock is annoying. Winchester has made lots of limited runs of 1886 models with varying barrel lengths and configurations, some takedown models but nearly all have curved steel buttplates that can dig into your shoulder. A standout model for a hunter is the Lightweight model with the half mag and shotgun buttplate. Pedersoli 86/71's are worth a look now that have sorted out their feeding issues. They have some interesting options and don't have the tang safety and rebounding hammers of the Winchesters. Plenty of options to consider.

I really had my heart set on an 1886 and had the bug pretty bad. Then I stumbled upon an first year production JM Marlin 45-70 that I picked up for just a little over $400. It was used, but not abused, with good honest wear on the outside and a pristine bore. It shoots great and is slicker than snot.

I doubt that you’ll find one that cheap, but a JM Marlin is worth at least as much as a new unfired current production model. I would look for one of those.

The Marlin levergun is an entry level choice, imo. I have owned one, handloaded for it and sold it.
The Marlin's do routinely fail, sometimes unsafely. The Henry only seems slightly better but is different loading arrangement.
Get something of good quality- 45/70 brass is very light duty, might as well use a stronger action. My little old opinion.

I have a JM guide gun. Itw ill touch holes at 100 with 405 hard cast. Never had a problem with it. Its not as sexy as an 86 though

The 86 is stronger, but it is heavier and thicker. A Marlin 45-70 with iron or receiver sights carries like a 30-30.

I understand the 1886 is stronger, but is it really necessary? The Marlins will take the 405 grain slugs to 1900-2000 fps safely, what more do you even need? If you're trying to push it past that just buy a .458 WM. Starline brass is great and will take a beating with heavy loads. I load my 405s to a more comfortable 1600 fps, and they will still shoot lengthwise through pretty much any game animal in North America.

Find a good used JM stamped Guide Gun and be happy. To age a JM Marlin, take the first 2 digits of the serial number and subtract from 100. That will give you the 2 year digit code it was made in (a 99XXXXX serial was made in 2001. 100-99=01.) I have a stainless version that I'm going to be putting MPI stocks on with receiver sight from Skinner. Light, handy, and packs a punch.

Hard to beat the Marlin Cowboy with Ballard rifling for heavy cast bullets.

I have an 1886 but like this one better. Easier to scope, lighter and sleeker.

DF

A 45/70 like it is supposed to be... 1886 take down that someone else put a peep sight on so I wouldn't have to.

Nice original.

Yeah, no guilt with the receiver sight already mounted.

Mine is a Miroku, which is a fine gun, but not in the same category as that one.

DF

It would be nice DF to have an original Lwt Rifle in the pic but I'll bet our Mirouka's are stronger and more accurate. MB

Likely.

Miroku makes a fine rifle, probably better made than the original.

But, who wants to hear that...

DF

I am a Miroku fan. My guess is I would like the m94 takedown also, spendy but well made. I have a few BLR takedowns

I am a Miroku fan. My guess is I would like the m94 takedown also, spendy but well made. I have a few BLR takedowns

True story.

I vote for a newer 1886. Owned 3 JM Marlins from the early 2000's and all were crap. I did buy 2 Marlins since Remington took over Marlin and am pleased with the rifles.
But the 1886 is the best choice.

I have owned most of them, and I will ad this caveat, I won't own a Henry, but the rest I have. The best 45-70 is not an original or a modern Winchester that they are making now. The absolute best is the older Browning rifles from the 1980's. It may be hard to believe, but they are superior to the originals and certainly the modern Winchester versions...

Shrap, is that better overall, or mostly because the new ones have that dumbass safety?

I have two of the Browning Low Walls, and haven't seen any of the "Winchesters" with wood that even comes close to what's on those. The metal polishing seems sub-par as well. The shotgun butts on some of the new new ones would be my choice though, having been thoroughly tomahawked by a B78 .45/70.

Don't know about the best, but my favorite lever rifle would be the original ported barrel guide gun



loaded the 400 gr. Speers in it over 53 gr. IMR 3031



It popped on both ends but the barrel porting helped on the back end.



Don't know if they were all like this one but it was amazingly accurate, zero'd at 120 yds.



1st two cloverleaf, then third shot after zero.


ya!

GWB

Shrap, I'd take your word for that. You've been there, done that with those type guns.

DF

+1

I have owned most of them and the Browning 1886 SRC was the best I ever owned. Fit and finish near perfect and function was flawless. The only downside is the sights which are hard to see in anything but good light.

Look at the fit and finish without the consideration of the safety and the Browning is superior. I have had all of them, even the earlier Winchesters that they made previous to the later ones with the tang safety. Marlins are tools compared to the Browning...

Me too. My guide gun (along with a .450 Marlin) has not let me down in any way, shape or form.

I don't shoot them a lot, but they're accurate, especially with the 325 flex tips. I have carried them a lot in a scabbards on horseback and they've worked better than fine.

There are .45-70 loads, 'Modern .45-70' (Marlin) loads and 'Ruger #1' loads. If I get another #1 or #1, it will be a .45-70.

Love my JM Marlin 1895 with 22" barrel, though,

Ranger Point Precision has pointed out that the Marlin 1895's in 45-70 have a thin web in the receiver where the magazine tube slides in and the receiver commonly cracks there from hot loads. Only way to see if yours is cracked is to remove the magazine tube. They say because of this the .444 is a more suitable cartridge for the Marlin because the smaller case rim allows that web to be thicker.

Link to 1895 receiver cracks

I agree fully with Shrapnel. My Browning M71 Carbine is flawlessly executed and finely accurate. Same for my Browning M53. Better steel, better fit and finish and more accurate than the originals. Yes, better overall.

This is the 1895 weak weak spot, especially with the 45-70, because of it's large base.

This is what it looks like when it goes. Not mine, photo on line. If one is careful with loads, this won't happen.

DF

Damn!

Yeah, for sure...

Picture like that will tend to tighten ones pucker strings...

DF

Another believer in the Browning SRC. The action sounds and feels like a bank vault door opening and closing. Just a well made piece of equipment. My only gripe is that my eyes just can't handle open sights very well any more.....darn it!

Your picture does do an excellent job of showing how thin the web is between the barrel threads and the magazine tube on an 1895. That's right where they get the hairline crack.

Or get a BLR IN 450

Yep, this one went one step beyond just a crack.

Have never seen an 1886 come apart. That old JMB design is uber strong, much stronger than the Marlin. I think a modern 1886 (Miroku) should be about as strong as a #1 Ruger.

DF

That's a chitty deal, but my first impression is that there was more at play than just a thin web in the magazine tube/receiver joint.
The Marlin Owners link described an actual milled void in the web between the magazine tube recess and the barrel threads, not a thin, weak spot prone to cracking. I wonder if they were referring to a bad lot of rifles or a consistent design flaw.

That/////

And, in another configuration with sister 39, old Fajan stock and my checkering..

Back in my CAS days. The 39 was good for practice.

With antique eyes, the scope is better. I think I'm past my tang sight days.

But, IMO the rifle is actually prettier set up like that. I reshaped the stock to resemble the old long tang Marlins, sent to to Errol Case in MO for a classic checkering pattern after a tung oil refinish. It has a Wild West trigger,

DF

And, another pair of LR .45-70's. Pedersoli Sharps.

DF

I've carried a Marlin 1895 for a lot of years. I like the pistol grip. I did however, have the barrel cut down to 18-1/2" , and Wild West Guns did some smoothing up. There was no stainless back then and I had mine Chrome, matt finished, and had a Pachmayer decelerator pad added. I also like the XS sights on it. They are very fast sights, almost as fast as a scope. I've had no problem with the rifle. I had a couple of earlier ones with the straight grips and porting, I'd never have another one of those. My wrist doesn't work with the straight grip.
I've had a few of the early Miruko 1886's and they were heavier than I'd like to carry all day. Beautiful guns though for sure. I've had the standard, model, the high grade, and the Montanas.

I have to agree with Shrapnel on the Browning 1886. Mine happens to be the Winchester repro with rebounding hammer (which I had disabled), and tang safety (which I had removed and covered the slot with a vernier tang sight). I do have a Browning 71 without the rebounding hammer and tang safety and that is the way to go. I did have a couple of Marlin Cowboys in 45-70 but only have that one in 38-55 now.

Have you ever shot a 45-70? Might change your mind if you do.

Never seen one in the flesh, but another source for 86/71s is Pedersoli. They're built from forgings, I believe. A YouTuber, Cap and Ball IIRC, has done at least one review of the 86. Seemed pretty nice. I'd want to handle one before buying.

That's how flinches are developed.....grin.


I've run some of the Hornady Manual loads for the Marlin through Quickload. The max pressure loads go into the 40K psi pressure range.

I have a JM 1895GBL. My 405gr Load with 40gr RL7 gets over 1500 fps, and predicted pressure is right around 30K psi. That's as far as I care to go with the Marlin 1895.

Don't ya know...

DF

Wow...

Now, that's the real deal.

Thanks for posting.

DF

I can't speak for a Winchester or Browning in 45/70, but I have two Marlins. Both are accurate and smooth working. My fascination with big bores is about over, but I'll probably hang on to my Guide Gun.

I've found that personally I don't need loads heavier than Trapdoor levels. They do everything I'll ever need a big gun for.

Anyone see the new Pedersoli 86/71 in the flesh? It looks good in the pics and now they are making them in .348 Win. It looks like one can be had for around $1,400. Has anybody actually seen one?

I'm guessing that those with Marlin 1895 receivers that "let go" probably stated that their loads "are safe in my gun" prior to the moment they discovered they weren't.

Wouldn’t want to be very close when it went. Shrapnel can travel pretty far.

“It’s safe in my gun” until it’s not.

No reason to hot rod these fine guns.

They’ll behave if we behave.

DF

My Miroku 45-70. Checkered it and added a pad.

DF

I had a really nice Marlin Cowboy gun, kicked like a mule. However the newer marlins that I have had leave a lot to be desired.

Yeah, Remlins are not the same as JM marked Marlins.

The Cowboy Marlins are lighter than the Miroku 1886's. Easier to carry, kick more.

DF

None of these can compare to an new Henry made rifle, not Wincchester, Marlin, or Browning Miruko. Nothing compares to Henry value and craftsmanship.

Hmmm...

No experience with the Henry, just not what I'd heard. Would like more info.

DF

I agree, the quality of the Henry is much below the others...

I think you'd like the Henry quite well. It's high quality and modern materials just might ensure that you don't blow up an collectable vintage firearm.

Besides, in real world performance the Henry 45-70 is worth twice as much an an Browning 1886 or 71, being that it will probably last twice as long without parts breakage or failure.

No loading gate. Extra extra heavy. No want.

No personal offense intended Sir, but Usain Bolt himself couldn't run fast enough to catch me and give me a Henry. I'd take just about anything else.

Well, once you try a Henry all your Winchesters and Marlins will be just worth a penny. They're just fantastic rifles and made right here in this country.

I've been very pleased with several Marlins I've either owned, or played with for a while.

Their fit and finish is not perfect. But they have all been very good shooters.

-Jake

Been to the Range twice in the last three weeks with a couple "men" that outta two different Marlins couldn't shoot them worth a Chitt........... Would love to see groups from those that claim they shoot!!!!!!!! post 'em... Seems like a pipe dream to me. Couple big boys with big shoulders they are. I almost bought into it. Bears over bait. Thick timber elk blah blah blah. To each his own. Granted the only 45-70's Ive ever been around. Seen enough to not ever wanta scratch that itch again. I'm 6-2 230 and nothing about it was fun. JME YMMV Good Luck! If ya can't put it where it needs to go it ain't worth a pinch of chitt. Try shooting one in field conditions before you buy one. If I'm outta line I apologize...

Tried Henry. The balance, fit, handling, and weight are all wrong. Give me Winchester.

That's crazy. I just recently sold my Remlin 1895 45-70 and that sucker shot MOA with Winchester and Hornady factory loads. You just have to know how to shoot. It doesn't matter how big you are.

Had my 45-70 and 375 Marlins at NRA Whittington Center, shooting the steel range. Was hitting the rams at 600 four-out-of five with both in 40MPH crosswinds. (Had to hold on the next ram to the left.) Shot both regularly at 300 yards with a ~22" drop at local range, easily hitting 6" target with all shots. Dropped a nice 6x6 bull elk at lasered 213 yards the day after taking a buck mulie at a lasered 197 yards.

Still have both, along with a .30-30 that shoots well, too.

Here are some notes from my reloading spreadsheet. Velocities are from chrono. All are JM Marlins.
Range is 100 unless otherwise noted.
Format is 'Brief load description -- Comments'.

Marlin 1895 (.45-70)
Lasercast 300g FP BB, 1566fps -- Lee crimp. 0.42" for 3 shots, one hole, 50 yards, 4x scope, 12.5fps S.D.
Speer 300g JHP, 2247fps -- Lee crimp.1.55" with 3 of 4 in 0.70", 50 yards, 4x scope, 10.1fps S.D.
North Fork 350g FN, 2181fps -- Roll crimp in top groove as separate operation with RCBS crimp die. 1.2" group for 4 shots, 100 yards, 7x Scope. 3.6fps S.D.

Marlin 375 (.375 Winchester):
Hornady 220g @ 2230fps -- Very accurate. 2.9" @ 200 yards. 3.4fps Std. Dev.
Speer 235g @ 2071fps (load 1) -- 3-shot avg, 1.60" group. 100 yrds. 15mph wind, 4/8/2018
Speer 235g @ 2071fps (load 2) -- 3-shot avg, 1.67" group. 100 yrds. 15mph wind, 4/8/2018

Marlin 336C (.30-30)
Speer 130g FSP @2351fps avg. -- Ladder - 1.35" for 35.0g, 35.5g, 36.0g
Speer 130g FSP @ 2438fps -- 0.95", 100 yards, 3 shots, 39.8fps STD, 4x scope
Speer 130g FSP @ 2504fps -- 0.14", 100 yards, 2 shots, 7x scope, 38.5g and 39.0g. 1.75", 100 yards, 5 shots, 38.5g, 13.2fps, STD PREFERRED LOAD
Speer 150g FSP @2305fps -- 0.50", 100 yards, 3 shots, 7x scope, 35.5g, 36.0g and 36.5g. 3.35", 100 yards, 5 shots, 22.9fps
Hornady 160g FTX @ 2274fps -- Consistent 0.95" to 1.00" w/ 33.5g, 34.0g, 34.5g Varget
Speer 170g FSP @ 2069fps -- 0.90", 100 yards, 3 shots, 12.3fps STD, 4x scope
Speer 170g FSP @ 2133fps - 1.0", 100 yards, 5 shots, (2 targets combined), 7x scope. 1 @ 30.0g, 2 @ 30.5 and 2 @ 31.0g.


Yup, Marlins suck.

So far, not a big ground swell of enthusiasm for the Henry.

You seem to be in a minority.

But, if you like it....

I reckon that's why they make Dodge trucks...

Somebody drives'em, not me...

DF

i have seen many that couldn't shoot a 45-70 worth beans. most were defeated before they even pulled the trigger.
i started in 1959 with a spingfield and only in the last 6 months have i not had a 45-70 in my cabinet.
those tat can't shoot a 1895 mostly are jumping out of their shoes at the thought of dropping the hammer.
i have never had any type of lever in 45-70 that wouldn't shoot close enough to decapitate a grouse .
have taken bear, elk, whitetail,and even a huge sucker fish in the river with Marlin's, Winchesters, Springfields, and
even a siamese Mauser.
probably my favorite 45-70 Lever gun is the 1886 lightweight takedown. But for heavy use you can't beat the 1895 Marlin. and i have even had one Remlin that was outstanding.
if it weren't for health issues i would be shooting a 95 in 45-70 today.

fixted
don't want to bad mouth the henry too much but they just can't get the ascetics to appeal to me.

Wish I had a Studebaker truck.

I remember them.

DF

I like my GG, I won’t brag about accuracy but it’s as good as I am with open sights. I run 430gr gas checks at 1700-1800 FPS. It’s easy to carry and points fast. I bought it for a camp gun and something I can carry into Canada. I didn’t buy it to be pretty, just a hammer if I need it.

It tickles me to read about Marlins/lever actions not being accurate. I have shot many marlins in several calibers and most would approach or meet MOA without much effort. Every now and then I'll pull up videos from the marlin forums showing long range shooting using cast bullets and Unique (mostly) powder. It takes a shooter, but it also takes a good rifle! Just go to YouTube and search videos for 'wind dingers marlin'.

I was about to sell my 1895 SBL a few months ago during that idiotic buying craze based on a stupid movie, that just happened to be between shipments from the factory. Used ones were getting $1300 on auction. New went over $1500
I took it to the range "one last time", shot 3 shots, and they were all touching in the center of the bullseye at 100 yds. No way I'd let that get away. I had already done a complete tune up, as well as adding a Wild West follower, trigger, and extractor.
Wasn't super fond of the shiny metal, so totally disassembled it, and had the external parts Cerakoted in Cobalt Gray. So, I now have essentially their custom shop model for way less than it could be bought for.

My choice would be find a pre safety Marlin. I have 3 and they are for sure smooth with a wild west trigger swapped into them. I like to run small variable power scopes so Marlin is a no brainer for me.

Used SIL's triger gage to check my firearms yesterday. My Marlin 375 has a Wild West Guns 'Happy Trigger' that measured 2 pounds-14 ounces. That compares to 4-0 for my 1895 and 3-10 for my 336CS. The WWG triggers are well worth the money.

The ammo I've used for years is BB. Let me tell you a 430 grain LBTLFN 1925 fps, is a heavy load. You better not have any loose fillings or you will after you shoot. But it's a potent load and if you are carrying for brown bear it's a worthy load. You don't shoot that one for fun.

I have a book 40 years with the 45/70

The author claimed the Winchester was weaker than a Marlin. And the Ruger # 1 or # 3 were the strongest.

I have only had Marlins. I actually have a presafety I would sell.

The biggest thing I found was to get a glove, or big loop lever! They don't crush your hand on recoil!

I think pistol grips help also for recoil abatement.

I have to agree while not the best, the stubby barreled safety sporting factory ported marlin is my favorite, once I crowned it, trigger worked it and added a glove loop via jim Brockman !

My hunting buddy and I call it "lever-action satisfaction".

Bolts have advantages but levers are WAY more fun.

Yes, levers are more fun.

Doesn’t Turnbull have the Italians make some 86 clones specifically for him to customize?

Give me one of these......

http://www.winchesterguns.com/produ...l-1886-Deluxe-Takedown-half-octagon.html

I currently own a Marlin 1895ABL have had several versions of their guide gun over the years. All have served me well with this 1895ABL being my favorite.

I do lust for a 86 SRC be it browning Winchester or one of the newer makers.

The one time I shot a Marlin 45/70, was when a stranger that just bought one and first trip to the range was showing it off. Let some of us shoot it. I shot one round and hit a 9" plate at 100 yards with what I think were factory peep sights. I was shooting standing with no support, seemed pretty accurate to me.

Browning 1886 src, bank vault lock-up, slick,accurate with 335 gr. wide met plate GC over 16 gr of unique. nuf said.