Hello all, I could use some assistance. I’ve never owned a lever action before ( I know, I’m unAmerican). I’m getting ready to buy my first, and have decided on a new Miroku Winchester. I’m looking at the 1873 in 357 Mag (and open to discussion on the 1892 in the same cartridge), and the 1894 in 30-30.
I’m torn right down the middle. Both seem like great rifles. I don’t have an intended use for either yet other than just plain fun. I’ve toyed with the idea of CAS, and have a Uberti SAA in 357. If I knew I was going to do CAS, the ‘73 or ‘92 would be a no-brainer. I think it’s unlikely, however, that I ever will actually get into it. 30-30, on the other hand, has a bit of nostalgia to it, since at 12 years old, it was the first centerfire cartridge I ever fired. I’ve never owned one, and I think it might be time to change that.
To continue with the pros and cons; I prefer the looks of the ‘94, and I’ve heard it feels lighter and handier, even though both would be the 20” barrel. On the flip side, I’m not a fan of the manual tang safety on the Browning designed repros, but it’s not a deal killer. I’ve read that the ‘94 is a superior design, but the ‘73 has a smoother (and maybe even more reliable?) action.
I’m honestly at the point I could flip a coin. Both intrigue me that much, so I’d love to hear opinions. I wish there was somewhere I could compare both in person, but nowhere local has them. My friend has a ‘73 he’s going to let me check out. If the ‘92 or ‘94 truly feel noticeably handier, that would immediately sway me. I’m wanting a small, light carbine.
Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions. By the way, I would love any Miroku photos. I can’t get enough of them. And one last quick note, I know someone may suggest a Uberti, but I am firmly decided on a Miroku.
UPhiker, I own a number of military surplus guns that are used, and I'm fine with that, given that they were military issued, and I'm unlikely to ever find a new Lee Enfield, for instance. But when it comes to civilian guns, I want to be the original owner. I want all the miles on the engine to have been put there by me. Many folks don't have that hang-up, and I get that. That's how I personally feel, though. As I mentioned, Miroku has been decided on. My only debate is as to which model/ cartridge.
Among the current Miroku Winchesters, the 73 seems to be the only one without the dumbass unnecessary tang safety, which at times in the past was reported to sometimes tie the rifles up. The 73 also, according to reviews, has a good trigger pull. Modern steel makes the .357 version workable, but I still wouldn't run hot mags through it on a regular basis myself.
Be prepared for a lot of hate from folks that don't like them because of where they're made, but Miroku makes good stuff and fine barrels. I have a couple of old Low Walls, and they're pretty much perfect in every way, probably the nicest rifles I've ever owned, except maybe an old Sako.
Thanks Pappy. It's interesting to hear you say that about the '73 and full power 357's. I just watched a youtube video where the guy working on a '73 said the same thing. That's actually a pretty big turn off for me. I've never been a fan of firearms that are "sensitive" to stout loads in the cartridges they are chambered in. I like the piece of mind of knowing that if it's factory ammo, the gun will do fine with it. I really like the simplicity I'm seeing in the '73's action, but that news about their tolerance of hot rounds is definitely a big entry in the "cons" category. Probably even more than a tang safety, at least for me.
The toggle-link action of the 73 wasn't meant for the pressures of smokeless. Doubtless these are safe, but just like a S&W M66, prudence dictates a little caution if long service life is your goal. Uberti, I believe, makes .44 mag 73s with special steel and maybe heat-treatment. Almost all CAS shooters use 73s from what I've seen, because they run so slick.
As to .30/30s, I'm pretty sure you can get a really nice original for a lot less than the replicas. An LGS had a beautifully restored M64 for about $900 a year or so ago. Check gunbroker. Pedersoli makes replicas too, I believe, with forged receivers AFIK, like their 86/71s. Those will run more than the Mirokus probably, so again originals will probably be the best buy.
I don't like the way the guts come out of a 94 when you work the action. One of the Marlins is my preference for a 30-30.
I love the little 92 in standard carbine or trapper configuration for their handiness and action strength. But thinking if I had to choose from a Japanese reproduction of this old 19th century American classic, I might just go a little unconventional with the pistol gripped, case hardened , Trapper Takedown. http://www.winchesterguns.com/produ...roducts/model-1892-trapper-takedown.html If length of pull is too short, a custom made 2/3 length leather buttstock cover with a pad/spacer inside, and ammo loops, could give whatever LOP you desire.
The large loop carbine looks kind of cool too. John Wayne? The Rifleman?
It says it has a 20" barrel, but that sure looks like a 16" in the video.
Miroku was building Browning Model '81's and shipping them to Australia over 40 years ago. Miroku quality and finish is equal to anyone and certainly at the highest level.
If a "Branded" rifle is purchased for an investment that includes the historical leaning Boomers, look around for an older USA build in something else. If the rifle is purchased for a lifetime of use and enjoyment, maybe the Boomers should not be a consideration, just buy what you like.
Thanks Pappy. It's interesting to hear you say that about the '73 and full power 357's. I just watched a youtube video where the guy working on a '73 said the same thing. That's actually a pretty big turn off for me. I've never been a fan of firearms that are "sensitive" to stout loads in the cartridges they are chambered in. I like the piece of mind of knowing that if it's factory ammo, the gun will do fine with it. I really like the simplicity I'm seeing in the '73's action, but that news about their tolerance of hot rounds is definitely a big entry in the "cons" category. Probably even more than a tang safety, at least for me.
You can use .38 Special instead of .357 Mag in the 1873 if you're worried about hot mag loads. Personally I think it's a load of crap.
It may well be crap, but the design puts all the stress on a couple of links and the pins they ride on. One way to handle it would be with slightly lighter loads; another would be the use of LilGun, which even at published max produces pressures below 30,000 CUP (25,800 with 158gr XTPs according to Hodgdon Data).
Plinking wouldn't require heavy loads, and the CAS crowd won't allow them.
92s are stronger and lighter, but the Winchesters have that dang safety. You pays your money and takes your choice.
It may well be crap, but the design puts all the stress on a couple of links and the pins they ride on. One way to handle it would be with slightly lighter loads; another would be the use of LilGun, which even at published max produces pressures below 30,000 CUP (25,800 with 158gr XTPs according to Hodgdon Data).
Plinking wouldn't require heavy loads, and the CAS crowd won't allow them.
92s are stronger and lighter, but the Winchesters have that dang safety. You pays your money and takes your choice.
The miroku 1895's are good guns. Drilling and tapping holes, I've noticed the steel is harder to tap than others I've worked on. (Action and Barrel)
They will digest modern 30-06 and 270 pressures for thousands of rounds.
Having no rear bridge like most bolt actions, they are shorter than most short action bolt rifles, yet digest rounds longer than factory 30-06 and 270 C.O.A.L dimensions.
Thanks for all the added food for thought! Here’s an update:
I just got back from a gun store that had several variations of the Miroku ‘73, two ‘92’s, an 1866, and an 1886. The undisputed winner was the 92. The 73’s I held had actions that were light, smooth, and fast, and I hated it. I realized that the 73’s action did not feel anything like what I wanted a lever gun to feel like. Maybe it’s from owning so many surplus bolt guns, but I wanted the action to feel slow, chunky, and rock solid. The 92 delivered that in spades. In fairness, I’m sure the 1886 would have felt similar, but it wasn’t the size/ weight I was after.
So with me incredibly happy with the 92, it made me confident I want a 94. I realized I want the 92 feel but in a 30-30. So now I’m on a mission to find a Miroku 94 to hold, but I’m almost so confident I’d like it, that I’m considering buying one sight unseen.
It helped in another way too; I think the rifle style stock is gorgeous, with the gentle sweeping curve. But in reality, the toe was way too sharp, and what it had in looks, it lost in comfort. I’m glad I was able to see that first hand. I definitely want the carbine stock, even though it’s slightly less elegant.
I've got a Miroku-made 94 in 25-35. The fit and finish is outstanding. And with a slimmer profile scope, it doesn't look half bad. (I own a much older 92 in 32-20 for comparison.)
That rifle-style stock works fine with light-recoiling rifles; my Low Wall .44 is very pleasant to shoot, even with full-power loads. But it's an orthopedist's wet dream on something like a .45/70. After shooting my B78, I was bruised and sore for days. It didn't stay with me long.
Fireball2 has a sweet little 94 16" carbine with the 2/3 magazine, pictured in this thread https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../14538604/model-94-question#Post14538604 that I think might be something like you're after. I'd keep an eye out for one of these. I have a similar model from Marlin. A 30TK with 18" barrel and 2/3 magazine. It's a hoot! But birch or beech. So not as nice wood as you find on most 94's and 336's. Of course I could always upgrade the wood, but it doesn't really bother me.
Do we have a resident expert on old Winchesters who I could PM about a rifle? I found one that is almost making me go back on my stance of "no used guns", but it's not cheap, and before I buy it, I'd like to get a professional's opinion.
Jedi, You're overthinking this, excessively. We're talking about a model 94 here, one of the most widely used deer rifles across all of the United States and Canada. Millions of them for sale. All of which, you've no experience with a single one.
Drop your anal madness, go pick up one of the million (not one in a million).
Jedi, You're overthinking this, excessively. We're talking about a model 94 here, one of the most widely used deer rifles across all of the United States and Canada. Millions of them for sale. All of which, you've no experience with a single one.
Drop your anal madness, go pick up one of the million (not one in a million).
Go enjoy it.
I hear what you're saying, but a $1000-1200 investment is not a small deal to me. This is being purchased with a tax return, because I normally would not be able to splurge on one of these.
Tmitch, I'm reluctant to post my question openly because it is on an auction site, and appears to be in excellent condition for its age. I've seen things get swooped up that way.
Jedi, You're overthinking this, excessively. We're talking about a model 94 here, one of the most widely used deer rifles across all of the United States and Canada. Millions of them for sale. All of which, you've no experience with a single one.
Drop your anal madness, go pick up one of the million (not one in a million).
Go enjoy it.
I hear what you're saying, but a $1000-1200 investment is not a small deal to me. This is being purchased with a tax return, because I normally would not be able to splurge on one of these.
Tmitch, I'm reluctant to post my question openly because it is on an auction site, and appears to be in excellent condition for its age. I've seen things get swooped up that way.
And? There are millions of M 94's. Post the question and if it gets picked up another will show up in due time.
You're not talking about a rifle with limited numbers.
I've contacted the seller, and it is his belief that at least the barrel has been reblued. He informed me of that when I told him it seemed in remarkably good condition for a pre-war rifle (MFR 1941). I'd love to hear opinions on it:
I've contacted the seller, and it is his belief that at least the barrel has been reblued. He informed me of that when I told him it seemed in remarkably good condition for a pre-war rifle (MFR 1941). I'd love to hear opinions on it:
Thanks again for all the assistance, folks! I'm excited to say, I have my first lever action on it's way to my local gun store. I appreciate all the comments and suggestions, which made me less reluctant to buy used, instead of new.
Here's a link to the one I bought. The seller was Cabelas, through Gunsinternational, and Mary, at Cabelas, was outstanding to deal with.
I've contacted the seller, and it is his belief that at least the barrel has been reblued. He informed me of that when I told him it seemed in remarkably good condition for a pre-war rifle (MFR 1941). I'd love to hear opinions on it:
Thanks again, gents! I have to say, I owe a lot of it to forum member Poconojack. He was very generous and took a lot of his own time helping me track down one I'd like, and weed through ones I wouldn't. I've always been impressed with the caliber of folks on this forum. And thanks to Tmitch for providing the link to my new toy.
That's a great looking model 94. The '94 is one of my favorites and you picked a great one to be sure! Good luck with it when it arrives and I bet you and your descendents will enjoy it immensely...Congrats!
I've never been a fan of firearms that are "sensitive" to stout loads in the cartridges they are chambered in. I like the piece of mind of knowing that if it's factory ammo, the gun will do fine with it. I really like the simplicity I'm seeing in the '73's action, but that news about their tolerance of hot rounds is definitely a big entry in the "cons" category. Probably even more than a tang safety, at least for me.
I realized that the 73’s action did not feel anything like what I wanted a lever gun to feel like. Maybe it’s from owning so many surplus bolt guns, but I wanted the action to feel slow, chunky, and rock solid. The 92 delivered that in spades. In fairness, I’m sure the 1886 would have felt similar, but it wasn’t the size/ weight I was after. 
