Dog vs Coyote ?

Posted by: 6mm250

Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 03:57 AM

Coyotes are a fairly new phenomenon around here but we do have them. I have read different posts on the 24HCF where someones dog has gotten torn up or killed by coyotes. Now I am wondering,is there any kind of dog that can stand up to a coyote 1 on 1 ? Do people ever hunt coyotes with a pack of dogs? What kind of dog/dogs would you use for this type of work ?
Posted by: FVA

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 07:07 AM

There are plenty of dogs that can stand up to coyotes but often,if a dog is out in the brush, it will be two coyotes on one.....and a coyote knows his business. Also if you look at a coyotes canines they are much longer than a similar sized domestic dog so they are no push over.
People do hunt them with packs very succesfully and coyotes will almost always run from multiple dogs. Coyotes are good at accessing situations.
Posted by: EthanEdwards

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 09:02 AM

I agree totally with FVA. A lone coyote generally will not tackle any but the smallest of dogs. They hunt in packs though and are much more experienced at fighting than your average pet dog.

A Beagle is a nice little dog, however I have a Walker Coonhound because he can probably take most coyotes if they're not in a pack and his longer legs keep his face up out of the weeds and such you find out in the country. Having two or more dogs can solve the "pack" problem. I don't fear leaving our dog run at night, but we have to keep him up because you have to watch him or he likes to run the cows some...
Posted by: MOGC

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 10:08 AM

I've asked this question both on the internet and in person to hound coyote hunters. The short answer is - not one on one. Not many dog coyote hunters will pit one of their hounds one on one with a big male coyote. Most often a pack of hounds runs the coyote for hours until the animal finally bays. Many times, the hounds trailing the coyote are rotated introducing fresh hounds to keep the pressure on the coyote. Finally when the coyote bays, fresh "kill dogs" are dropped down on the coyote and the fight is on. An older prime male will give a pack of kill dogs a fight, even though he's been chased down for hours by other hounds. In this case it seems, it takes a village to kill a coyote.

I made the post about my beagle above. I've coyote hunted for many years and have heard many, many, stories like mine. I spoke with a farmer today that had his large German Shepard killed by a lone coyote as he watched from his tractor. He thought his dog would whip the coyote and sat tight to watch the show. It didn't end as he expected! Another fellow a few years ago had his Chow torn up very badly by a coyote. This guy witnessed the fight from his workshop and thought the same thing. That his huge black Chow would teach the coyote a lesson. Not so.

I'm not saying there aren't any dogs that can't go toe to toe with one, just that it doesn't seem to happen with any frequency.
Posted by: remseven

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 11:03 AM

Sighthounds, or more correctly Coursing Hounds. The real Coursing Hounds, not the AKC crap bred today. Do not let their passive nature and laid back personalities fool you, they are coyote killers when trained. A pair or more works best.

Edited to add this: Most dogs today have had the kill hold bred down or out of them. This includes even pitbulls and the so-called fighting breeds. There are some dogs in every breed who will display the kill bite, it is just way below the surface in their genetic characteristics.

True coursing dogs, still display the kill techniques, because this is how they have been bred to stop or "hold" the prey for their master. There is a difference in killing and fighting. Two or more work best, because one will get his backside protected while administering the kill hold.

Very few trailing hounds KNOW how to kill. Hounds that trail are bred to stop, or hold the prey for the hunter to locate. Even those bred for bear and hog, are usually only stopping/holding the prey for the hunter. Good idea to run a couple of greyhounds with the trailing dogs, Mister Coyote in for a life changing situation then, AS IN DEAD!!!

They don't get them all, but don't be surprised if the 'yotes move out of the area where you run them. Especially during whelping season.
Posted by: ol_mike

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 12:47 PM

remseven ,

You know your coyote dogs!
There are some large breed hounds that are turnkey dogs -find coyote put dogs on coyote dogs chase -kill coyote.
These type dogs are hunted often and trained physically for the sole purpose of killing yotes.
Posted by: bearstalker

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 01:01 PM

I have a gut feeling my parent's full-size akita can probably take down a coyote or two in rather quick fashion.
Posted by: 6mm250

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 03:48 PM

Being from NC I can't help but wonder if anyone has used Plott Hounds to hunt coyotes and if so how they did. For those that don't know the Plott is a rather large hound from the mountains of NC they are used to hunt bear and wild boar & have even been used to hunt jaguar in South America. The Plott is a hound with FIGHT bred into him. The state dog of NC.
Posted by: VAnimrod

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 04:28 PM

6mm;

I don't know about how a Plott would do vs. a 'yote, but having seen them in action vs. 'coons, bear, deer, and bobcats, I'd put my money on the Plott.
Posted by: 163bc

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 06:14 PM

Quote:

6mm;

having seen them in action vs. 'coons, bear, deer, and bobcats, I'd put my money on the Plott.




second that!! I'm bettin on the Plott!!
Posted by: SamOlson

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 06:31 PM

Out in the Missouri Breaks, where my old man has been runnin' cows for the past 15 years, the ranch foreman's Kelpies frequently take down coyotes. It does however requires 2 or more of the speedy 25-35lb. dogs to tackle a single coyote. These are also working dogs who make their living chasing cows 9 months a year.
Posted by: remseven

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 06:36 PM

I am a former Plott, English, and Leopard Cur hunter, owner and trainer. Do not hunt any dogs anymore. I have had dogs in those breeds that could kill, with a fight.

If you've never seen coursing dogs make a catch, there is no fight, only a kill. Think as in Cheetah catching it's prey. If the prey is "lucky" they may escape. If the coursing dog takes them down, the prey usually isn't lucky. They usually die from spinal bite, or suffocation, just as a cat kills. The key word is KILL not FIGHT.

As for the fight in Plotts, are you meaning grit to stay in the fight or battle, or being able to kill the bear or hog.

Leroy Haug of Swampland Plotts give the best description of what a bear dog should be years ago: He wanted a dog with enough grit to stay with the bear no matter how long, and when the bear turned to run again, to make life so miserable for the bear, the bear would stop again, or tree. Thus giving the hunters time to catch up.

Most large dogs can probably defend theirselves against any coyote single, or several if they can protect their backside someway. We are talking about a kill, not a fight. With coursing dogs the kill can occur at times so fast, all you will see is a blur of tumbling bodies, and a throat or neck hold on the prey when the tumbling bodies come to rest.

There may be guys in the Plains and Dakotas still hunting coursing dogs from horseback or truck. If you want some excitement and adventurous hunt, try to look them up, if any left in the sport.

If any of you readers are those hunters, are you still welding sicle bars on the front bumper. I'm thinking this may be a thing of the past also. Remember the first ride I took with one of those, thought I was going to end up in jail, LOL!!!
Posted by: VAnimrod

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 06:41 PM

remseven;

I ain't doubting that a bit, as far as the coursing hounds go.

Still, I'd take a pack of Plotts, bred and trained to run/kill 'yotes, and they'd have a ball.

Sickle bars to the bumpers, huh? Yikes...
Posted by: remseven

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 06:51 PM

Just caught your post. Do they go for the kill hold? Have found that most collie types (working dogs) will instintively when they need to, or learn it.

Is the Kelpie strong enough to crush spine or neck on 'yote? See they are weight size in 'yote range is why I ask. Working types also can display instinct to work as team when after prey, herding (work). And they can get real smart and tricky about it, sometimes more cunning than the coyotes, LOL!!!
Posted by: remseven

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 07:04 PM

Yikes is what I thought. I'm riding along, middle seat, first time I see one used, is the first time I knew what it was there for. I'm thinking man that rancher is going to kill us if we make it back to the road. In the meantime I'm trying to hang on, so the driver can keep us upright, and my head from going through my you know what on the other end.

Only later when we stopped to repair the barbed wire, did I find out they did this only with permission, LOL!!!

Seems dead 'yotes were more important than spliced barbed wire to some of those ranchers in those days. Talked to some who told of (I saw this with my own eyes), calves that were getting eaten while they were being born.
Posted by: SamOlson

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 07:21 PM

Having never actually seen them in kill mode I'm afraid I can't answer your question. I only have time to make it out for the annual fall roundup and therefore have only had the opportunity to take in the stories. I do however take the foreman as a man of his word. I'll ask my Dad when I see him during Christmas. Teamwork is certainly crucial herding cattle with these little dogs so I imagine it's part of their attack on coyotes as well. Sam
Posted by: Birdwatcher

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/26/06 10:56 PM

Years back I knew an older local gentleman whose two heelers killed a coyote in one of his stock pens.

As for killing coyotes one on one, this 98 pound Russian wolfhound/greyhound cross is apparently up to the task...

Quote:


http://www.gobacktothebasics.com/old_time_stories_and_facts_of_the_coyote.htm

The gist of the sport is setting a pack of greyhounds on the trail of a coyote and following the chase at a near-fifty-mph clip in the stripped-down truck known locally as the coyote car.

One of the ablest of the huntsmen is Ben Ammon of Bassett, whose pack of seven greyhounds and staghounds ran up a score of thirty-six kills last fall. Ammon's coyote car was made from a 1936 V8 pickup. The alteration involving “taking just about everything off of it.” In place of the original bed he has a large crate or cage on the rear to hold six of his hounds. A wide running board on the driver's side is the special place for Bob, his grizzled, 98-pound half-Russian, half-greyhound lead dog.

With the dogs loaded, Ammon takes off over the sand hills at about forty mph, he and Bob scanning the hills and draws for the first coyote to break cover. When the big dog spots the critter, he leaves his running board like a shot-regardless of the truck's speed. He usually rolls end over end a few times before he can get his long legs into action and light out after the coyote.

Bob's departure from the running board is the signal for Ammon to release his six other dogs, which he does by yanking on a pull cord that trips latches on the cage doors, allowing them to fall open in a horizontal position. Using the doors as springboards, the dogs bail out in a yelping, rolling mass. In less time than it takes to tell they have gained their legs and are off in pursuit of Bob and the coyote.

Their quarry is a gray, wolf-like animal ranging in weight from 35 to 50 pounds, and a formidable opponent on the defensive. He preys on calves that have become separated from the herd, and on sheep and poultry. His pelt is useless except as a trophy, and in some states it will bring a small bounty-leaving little more to coyote hunting than the sport involved.

Bob's weight and experience made him more than a match for almost any coyote he reaches, and Ammon has seen the time that he has finished off the animal before the rest of the pack arrived. However, he recalls a hunt on which Bob was late in arriving. Several less experienced dogs were having trouble with a tough old marauder. Bob took one grab at the beast's throat, flipped him over, and the hunt was ended.

The hunt follows a well-organized pattern. On coming along side the coyote, the lead dog grabs a leg and trips the animal. The rest of the dogs close in and the tussle is usually over in two minutes.

The length of the chase varies from three hundred yards to two miles on clear ground, and has been known to last between ten and twenty miles through deep snow or rough hills.




Birdwatcher
Posted by: FVA

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/27/06 02:12 AM

I had a Great Pyrenees,God rest his great soul, that weighed 170 pounds in fighting shape. He was loose on our farm from the time he was a pup till his demise and rest assured no two coyotes even thought of trying him. His hate of coyotes being part of his instinct was very evident as though he did not run in the hills to get them, they gave our place a wide berth and when they were howling he would go pretty far out barking his challenge till they stopped the ruckus, though seldom on his account hence long periods of barking at night. Among his assets besides being able to fit my head in his jaws was his long hair, particularly in the haunch and throat area that would certainly inhibit the effect of a bite in those areas.
I knew of a sheep farmer that had problems and got a female that got bit up pretty bad by a couple yotes. He than got a male as well and that was the end of his problems.
I could relate the story of the time my dog was barking relentlessly a from midnight till 1:30 before I finally got pissed enough to go shut him up. Found a guy standing prefectly still with his arm folded tightly against his body saying "I'm sorry" over and over again in tears. Sampson will always be my greatest dog...... Then there was the time with the 130 pound Rott.....no contest.
Posted by: remseven

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 11/27/06 11:15 AM

Thanks, when you find out the deal and method, let us know. How we learn stuff, when may never get chance to see it, and would appreciate the info. The Kelpies I've seen, are great little dogs.
Posted by: firstcoueswas80

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/03/06 09:22 AM

had a 115 lb rottweiler that would whip a pit bull, i would have put him against any coyote. especiall if that coyote was between him and i that coyote would be dead. he did that to a mean ass pit bull once. was a great dog, love his family like none other and would protect us with his life! ive seen him run coyotes down. couldnt catch them but sure ran em off!
Posted by: eddief

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/03/06 12:16 PM

my uncle used to have a 217 lb. Tosa. I would've put that dog against a couple yotes.

Eddie
Posted by: olhippie

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/03/06 01:48 PM

.....A well trained hunting gaze hound (greyhound or wolfhound)would make quick work of a coyote(problem being to find such an animal these days). A number of dogs could kill even a larger coyote,IF they could catch it! My rottweiler would bust him up good,but would need a faster dog to catch the critter for him..My rat terriers could probobly catch the critter,but having caught him,would likely end up a coyote lunch.....
Posted by: JefeMojado

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/03/06 01:48 PM

Most domestic dogs, and Im speaking of "real" dogs, not minis or fu-fu dogs, have way more grit than a coyote. Coyotes will occasionally catch,kill and consume the small dog breeds, the tiny terriers, weenie dogs etc, but when the domestic dog is on par in weight and size of a coyote, the domestic dog is at no real risk of being whooped on.
Most coyote dogs, used for decoy work are cur dogs, weighing 35-50 pounds,and their owners seldom fear their dogs will end up in harms way mixing it up with a coyote or two. Coyotes are way more bluff and run than domestic dogs, which are more inclined to grab ahold of what they want, and kill it.
Posted by: firstcoueswas80

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/03/06 07:20 PM

those irish wolf hounds are bad ass! lady had one in at home depot last year was 8 months old. im 6'3-6'4 255 lbs. bent down to pet the dog and when i stopped, the dog did the simple "hey give me attention" with its head and damn near knocked me on my ass! i can imagine those things would do some damage on a coyote!
Posted by: 222Rem

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/04/06 04:15 AM

While at the library I found a "living off the land" type magazine with articles about building a cabin, a garden, etc, and Ayoob does articles about guns for the "frontier." He told a story about a 100lb+ Bull Mastiff that took off after a 'yote that was trying to get at a young sheppard belonging to company staying at his master's house. As the story went, the BM was jumped by four other coyotes when he reached the brush. By the time the owner got there with a gun, the Mastiff was chewed up pretty good, but there were two dead 'yotes and a good blood trail leaving the area where the chewed up survivors had retreated. The Mastiff had already disembowled the two dead coyotes in his rage. I suspect coyotes will leave that residence alone for a generation or two. Assuming Ayoob wasn't fluffing the story some, that's a pretty damn cool Mastiff.
Posted by: MOGC

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/04/06 09:58 AM

Jefe,
Sadly my experience doesn't compare to yours. In fact, much of what I know about coyotes and dogs is quite the opposite. Many beaglers and coon hunters have had plenty of coyote problems when hunting their dogs. Also, decoy dogs aren't there to fight a coyote, they troll the coyote back to the waiting gun. Hunters using decoy dogs absolutely do not want their dog out too far, or too long without the gun backup. Hound hunters who run coyotes with hounds and allow the dogs to make the kill, first wear the coyote out by running it, then the hunters drop fresh experienced kill dogs on the ran down coyote. Then the 4 or 5 considerably larger hounds have a fight on their hounds before they kill the coyote. I don't see them dropping just a single dog to kill the coyote. Just doesn't happen. I guess in a ring/pit one of those really huge fighting dogs would make short enough work of the coyote. But that ain't reality for the most part. It certainly seems there is a lot of macho attatched to dog owners, sort of like the "my dad can beat up your dad" thing.
Posted by: remseven

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/04/06 12:41 PM

Some of you guys are confusing the issue. Yep, a big mean dude may win the fight, and often times will win a fight due to size by overpowering a smaller opponent.

There is a difference between fighting bites and hold, and the kill bite. Either can result in a kill or failure. A single coursing hound can make a kill, if they know how. They make the kill like a cheetah kills larger prey, a Mt. lion kills a horse or elk, a bobcat kills a deer.

Two coursing hounds do work better, if they work together. One will try to trip or down prey, while the other will position for neck or suffocation bite. A coursing hound by itself will usually try the same thing, by downing animal, and then going for the kill bite.

In turn the coyote can also utilize a kill bite, but has a tendency to cut and slash while running animal larger than itself. Of course dogs and wolves exhibit the same type of behavior when they have too, on larger prey. It is just that the instinct for the kill bite is more inherent in some canines than others.
Posted by: Calif. Hunter

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/04/06 12:52 PM

I had a coyote-aussie shepherd mix, and he was a comical dog to own. The smartest dog I ever had, but only about 45 pounds, wet. He would tend to rip and slash while running, but would whip his butt around to take a bigger dog's legs out from under him, and then grab him by the throat. He did this to several macho breeds, often hanging from their throats and being drug until they passed out.

I have a border collie/Queensland Heeler bitch now that regularly kills possums, coons, cats, etc. Generally grabs them by the neck and either chokes them or if they are small enough, just shakes them and snaps their necks.
Posted by: EthanEdwards

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/04/06 01:56 PM

That's Backwoods Home magazine. Dave Duffy is the owner/editor. I've read it for years and remember when Ayoob first came on. Alas, it is much harder to find in bookstores than it used to be. Just about anybody here would like it. I think I started in on it clear back in about '89. My how time flies.
Posted by: 222Rem

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/04/06 02:54 PM

Yeah, that's the one. I couldn't remember the exact name so I didn't try. For a little po-dunk town, our public library is loaded with great outdoor related reading--------I've got four Rutstrum books and a Stewart E. White book checked out right now. Also available, Selous, Corbett, Capstick, Ruark, Waterman, Oconnor, Whelen, Bear, the DGJ &SS Rifles to name a few. Sorry for the hi-jack, I'm just a little proud of our library, after visiting other towns where hunting isn't PC.

BTW, here's a link to the magazine.
http://www.backwoodshome.com
Posted by: 222Rem

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/04/06 02:57 PM

Remseven you're right, I don't understand the different techniques used by dogs to kill each other. I just loved the story of a large pissed off dog that turned the tables on a pack of yotes trying to kill a sheppard pup. Would have been great PPV material. Didn't mean to knock the discussion off it's tracks.
Posted by: greydog

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/04/06 02:57 PM

We had a pitbull/lab cross which weighed about 70 pounds and could handle any two coyotes without too much trouble. He never killed any but insisted they submit. His technique was to grab them anywhere and shake them like a rat (and he cold shake 50 pounds with little difficulty). Word got out, I guess, and for a long time, we seldom saw a coyote. He's gone now and has been replaced with an airdale bitch whic, I think, will do just fine.
We had a little twenty pound scruffy terrier mix which was caught out by two coyotes and was torn up pretty badly. The coyotes were taking too much punishment themselves, I guess, and finally gave up. It's not good survival strategy for a predator to be injured going after a meal so they prefer to avoid it. GD
Posted by: STA

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/05/06 08:32 AM

I bet this will work!! http://www.anypet.com/wolf.html
Posted by: Nitro223

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/21/06 08:54 AM

You want to see hounds and coyotes check out this site Nitro's Coyote Hound and Hunting Adventure
Posted by: remseven

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 12/22/06 07:34 AM

Thanks for the llink and info!

Great to know some are still running hounds like they should be doing it.

Can I ask the lineage on the 'yote hounds. Think I see some Leopard, Trigg, Greyhound, Walker/English mix going on there.

Looks like someone did a good job on the breeding mix to regain the performance?
Posted by: tuckahoe

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 01/22/07 09:29 AM

6mm250
Sent you an E-mail about a coyote in eastern NC.
I have a chow/shepperd mix that is very protective. He was barking up a storm (something he hardly ever does) I looked out and there was a coyote standing in the front yard. I grabbed the rifle but when I opened the door my dog went into seek and kill mode and chased the coyote across the cow pasture. I popped off a few rounds at the coyote to let him know he was not welcome. A .44 magnum really kicks up the mud.
Posted by: Crappie_Killer

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 01/24/07 03:41 AM

There are several breeds that will jump, trail/run, catch and kill a coyote one on one. In Kansas/Oklahoma/Illinois and several other plains states, a greyhound mix will take a coyote out by themselves also just not use their nose to track.
We killed over 35 last year with only about half being shot.

CK
Posted by: Kart29

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 01/24/07 01:47 PM

I hunt on a farm that has four of those big Great Pyrinese dogs running loose. They are bread for livestock protection. The farmer told me they never see any coyotes around their farm because the dogs run them all off.

Still I find plenty of coyote tracks and scat every time I hunt there.
Posted by: supercrewd

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 01/25/07 08:49 AM

I think my two Labs would kill a coyote...from indigestion. I think that size does not matter for the most part but helps... As an earlier post mentions that most of the kill gene has been diluted out of house pets, not so with the Coyote. If you have seen a dog with an intact kill gene it is a beautiful and frightening thing when in action. Had a Malamute/something/wolf mix years ago as a family pet, that was gentle as a lamb but when the kill switch was turned on, scary to imagine 2 or 3 running together hunting you.

Out in Eastern CO I have heard a number of stories of the big Rots being lured away from the homestead by a decoy dog and never being seen again. Death by 1000 cuts...
Posted by: SquirrelNuggets

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/06/07 03:38 AM

I might be taking my dog out small-gaming and birding...he's not a trained hunting dog though, so I worry about him running off after a yote and possibly getting hurt. Do yotes ever turn on dogs and attack them once they've run out a little ways, or do they not tend towards that sort of thing?

I'm guessing this would almost never happen unless the yotes were in a group...just wanted to ask.
Posted by: MOGC

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/06/07 08:12 AM

Coyotes will troll a dog off a distance and then attack them. The attack can be either singly, or, as a pair or group. The mating season is just beginning for coyotes, they're pairing up and searching out mates right now in most of the country. As they pair and begin looking for denning sites and through out the pup rearing stages, they will not tolerate another canine in their territory. Basically from March through September a pair of coyotes will be very territorial and protect dens and young from other canines.
Posted by: SquirrelNuggets

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/06/07 08:51 AM

Originally Posted By: MOGC
Coyotes will troll a dog off a distance and then attack them. The attack can be either singly, or, as a pair or group. The mating season is just beginning for coyotes, they're pairing up and searching out mates right now in most of the country. As they pair and begin looking for denning sites and through out the pup rearing stages, they will not tolerate another canine in their territory. Basically from March through September a pair of coyotes will be very territorial and protect dens and young from other canines.



Hmm, much the same way that wolves do it...something to be wary of if I were out stirring up rabbits with my dog. He's a blue heeler, so he's more than capable of taking care of himself, but I know that bad things can happen. For those that hunt coyotes with dogs, what do they do to prevent the hunt from turning unfavorable for their dogs?
Posted by: remseven

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/06/07 03:07 PM

SN, suspect your Heeler will be able to handle himself, one on one. The danger for a dog, is as was mentioned on the tolling. If your Heeler accepts you as pack alpha, then more than likely he will return to you when threatened. The thing is too make sure he does not (the Heeler) gets tolled to the point where two or more can do damage to your dog, before you can protect him. Hopefully killing one or more 'yotes. Not necessary to kill the '
yote to protect, but lots of people in vicinity, (and dogs), will condition a behavorial trait that exists in those particular 'yotes, that is negative for them.

Coyotes toll dogs, much like tolling dogs toll the 'yote to the gun, as a decoy.
Posted by: SquirrelNuggets

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/07/07 03:50 AM

remseven, he definitely sees my wife and I as pack alpha...he's your typical heeler, very submissive to #1, very affectionate; and a HUGE desire to please, even if he's not sure exactly what it takes to do that. I know he'd make a beeline back if he had any trouble, it's just a concern I had since I'd never been in that spot before.
Posted by: AggieDog

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/08/07 08:21 PM

Man, but those rat terriers are great deer dogs. Excellent trackers.
Posted by: Jamison

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/08/07 08:53 PM

I had a Heeler/Husky mix years ago that regularly killed yotes around the house. He weighed 55-60# and was a true "kill' dog. All the dogs in our area ran loose, as our nearest neighbor was over 1/4 mile away and that was my uncle. That dog killed 7 of the neighbors dogs in a week one time when there was a neighbors female beagle in heat. There was never much of a fight, just a couple of blurry bites and then a dead dog, ususlly from a spine or throat bite. He got hit by three different cars before one finally killed him. Funny, he only ever growled at one human, and that was my mom's younger brother...
Posted by: SquirrelNuggets

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/08/07 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Jamison
I had a Heeler/Husky mix years ago that regularly killed yotes around the house. He weighed 55-60# and was a true "kill' dog. All the dogs in our area ran loose, as our nearest neighbor was over 1/4 mile away and that was my uncle. That dog killed 7 of the neighbors dogs in a week one time when there was a neighbors female beagle in heat. There was never much of a fight, just a couple of blurry bites and then a dead dog, ususlly from a spine or throat bite. He got hit by three different cars before one finally killed him. Funny, he only ever growled at one human, and that was my mom's younger brother...
Wow.....pics?
Posted by: Johnny Dollar

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/09/07 09:26 AM

SqNu,
We have had a couple of heelers on the farm over the last 35 years. One was able to handle a single coyote but he got the crap chewed out of him when he was lured into a multiple 'yote situation. The vet put over 150 stitches into his neck and shoulder afterwards. A neightbor had his beagleXheeler killed by a pair right in front of his house.

Johnny $
Posted by: Aspire

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/25/07 04:27 PM

Not trying to hijack this thread but my question does relate to the content so far.

My wife and I have been having a little debate regarding Coyote vs. Canine. I have a 120# Great Dane bitch who has one of the worst temperments towards other dogs that I have seen. Believe me I am not proud of this but she was not socialized properly in the first year or so of her life that she was not in my possession. We can across a Coyote the other night (while driving)on our way to let my Dane run in an enclosed field (baseball diamoned). This open a caldren of debate regarding who would be the victor in a one on one battle. I propose that although the coyote is wild and maybe therefore having more killer instinct that my Dane's size and strenght would still overcome these factors. My wife thinks that I give the Dane too much credit and she would indeed those the battle.

Any help or opinions are welcome.
Posted by: VAnimrod

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/25/07 05:08 PM

Ain't but one way to find out......

Eastern 'yote, or western?

'Twould likely be one helluva fight, though.
Posted by: Aspire

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/25/07 06:27 PM

I am located in Southern California
Posted by: VAnimrod

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/25/07 06:29 PM

So.Cal?

I'd put my bet on a real b!tch of a 120 lbs. dane over a small, So.Cal. 'yote.

Now, if that dog-fight were in the 'dacks, or Maine.... the bet's off.
Posted by: Crappie_Killer

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/25/07 09:43 PM

I have witnessed several of these battles. The most efficient coyote killer was a dog that would go into the fight head on and knock yote off his feet and go for the throat immediately, no azz biters allowed. GAME OVER. Dog would get ate up a little, but not as bad as Ol' Wiley.

CK
Posted by: Skeezix

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/26/07 08:05 AM

I've got a Russian-bred German Shepherd Dog that weighs about 85lbs in fightin' trim that has killed quite a few coyotes. He looks like a German Shepherd on steroids: very strongly built, back-end doesn't slope down, very nimble with strong pasterns, stands up on his paws, and fast as greased lightning. Doesn't look much like the American-bred AKC-style shepherds at all.

The first time I saw him kill a couple of coyotes, it scared me half to death. I was out in the yard the morning of Feb 25, 2001, cleaning up damage from the killer tornado that hit Pontotoc and Baldwyn, Mississippi on the night of the 24th. I lived NE of Baldwyn then and the tornado had missed me by less than a 1/4 mile. My shepherd, Bo, was laying up on what was left of my back deck.

I heard a coyote start challenge barking across the creek, north of my house. I looked and saw four coyotes at the edge of the woods looking towards us. Without hesitation, Bo piled off the deck and charged at the coyotes and I started yelling at him to stop, WHOA!!! and other such stuff, but he never broke stride and flew at them like a guided missile.

I broke and ran to my truck to retrieve my Glock 23, and as I reached the truck, Bo reached the coyotes. I saw it clearly. He zeroed in on the one doing the barking and hit him with his chest, still going almost full throttle. This sent the coyote rolling and Bo pounced on him in a flash and grabbed the 'yote by the neck and chomped and shook, and in a few short seconds, that one was history. The other coyotes started to jump on him and Bo whirled around and met the first one head on, bowled him over, lunged for the 'yote's neck, chomp, shake...scratch coyote #2. Two down in less than 30 seconds.

In the meantime, the other two had gotten in behind Bo and one had sunk his fangs into Bo's right hindquarter, and the other was trying to bite into his neck, shoulder and spine area from the left. The fight was fast and furious and moved in behind some brush and trees and I could no longer see what was happening.

By this time, I had Glock in hand and was running like an Olympic sprinter with his @$$ on fire, to rescue Bo. As I was running, I glimpsed a fifth coyote running through the edge of the woods to join the fight. I slammed on the brakes, up came the Glock, and by the Grace of God, I nailed her from about 35 to 40 yds, first shot.

I could hear the fight moving away from me, just inside the treeline, and I was running and jumping over logs and through the brush like "George of the Jungle". The sound of the fight was absolutely hair-raising. I heard a dog started ki-yiing and yelping in pain and then saw a 'yote burst out of the treeline, draggin its backend. I was amazed at the speed it made, dragging itself with just its two front legs, and it was across the creek and headed across the corner of my front yard in seconds. I nailed that one too, and took off running to the fight again.

As I was running again, I started seeing blood and hair in the brush and on the ground. Just as I burst upon them, the other coyote broke away from the fight and Bo took off in pursuit. I yelled at him, and this time, he gladly stopped and came back to me. The 'yote was gone before I could get a shot off at him. I got another glimpse of something moving rapidly off through the woods in the direction the 'yote had gone, and I figured it was a sixth one that was coming to the fight.

Bo had killed two and disabled one and I had gotten one and finished the one Bo disabled, BUT, I believe they would have killed him if I hadn't been there. He was chewed up in three or four places and had to go to the vet. He was a hurtin' puppy for several days. He was just short of two years-old then, and learned not to wade into a pack like that, by himself, but he still caught and killed single coyotes.

About a year later, I got a big female Alaskan Malamute. She was definitely the Alpha Bitch whereever she went. She and Bo made a lethal pair and soon decimated a lot of the coyotes in the area around my house, and the rest packed up and moved to safer territory.

I moved to the boonies in northern Missouri in late 2002, and they cleaned out the coyotes around my place there too. I had a female German-bred Shepherd then too, and she THOUGHT she wanted to get in on the action too, and went on a chase with the other two, but she got her @$$ whipped and chewed up by a male 'yote, and decided to stay in the yard after that. Like remseven said earlier, some dogs have the ability, and some dogs don't.

And I agree that most true Plotts could kill a yote.
Posted by: MOGC

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/26/07 09:10 AM

Bo is exceptional in his cunning and fighting abilities. Your local coyotes must have been yearling pups to stand static and let Bo knock them off their feet, one, two, three, just like that. Interesting story.

BTW, your sig line is incorrect. Askins did not author that line. Unless I'm mistaken Townsend Whelen is the correct author of that quote.
Posted by: Skeezix

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/26/07 10:46 AM

I wouldn't say he was cunning in that particular incident, but rather displayed the bravery of ignorance. Although his fighting ability did help him inititally, I believe he would have definitely been killed if I hadn't have been there. I don't believe he could have fought off the three that were left after he got the first two. They ripped him up pretty good.

And,though the first coyote stood there as Bo bore down on him, and when he finally did turn to run, it was too late and Bo quickly caught him and bowled him over, the other coyotes certainly were NOT "static". They piled on him in an instant. He was exceedingly lucky that his throat was not ripped out or his spine punctured.

I've thought about that incident MANY times, and have wondered why the first coyote let Bo catch him so easily. Only four things come to mind: 1) He didn't notice Bo coming because he was focused on me. I was yelling my head off at Bo to stop. 2) He was addled or injured due to the tornado (they were coming out of the tornado-damaged woods, although they all looked in relatively good condition when I examined them later), 3) As you said, he was young and inexperienced, or 4) He just didn't perceive Bo as that much of a threat.

However, he IS a cunning hunter. I've seen him lie in hiding, watching a groundhog den until the hog came out and then got far enough away from its den that he knew he could catch it. He does the same thing with squirrels.

But that's enough braggin on my dog. I apologize for getting off subject.

Airedale terriers are also supposed to be good coyote dogs.

As far as the sig line being incorrect, about 5 years ago, when I started using it, I posed the question as to who originated it on a couple of other hunting/shooting forums, and I received opinions attributing it to everybody from Elmer Keith to Jack O'Connor. I ALSO thought it was either Whelen or Askins. I remember reading that quote a number of times when I was a kid. The prevailing opinion, at the time, was that it was Askins. But now that we have this wonderful, august forum, I believe I'll ask the gunwriters. Thanks.
Posted by: Lawdwaz

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/28/07 12:29 PM

In the news here a couple days ago was a story about two black labs killed by 5 (?) coyotes last weekend in Mayville, NY. I believe the owner had them out on a hiking trail and the 'yotes attacked and killed both labs.
Posted by: northcountry

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/28/07 04:21 PM

Northcountry here When I was much younger growing up in western
Canada there was and older Englishman lived near my granparents
that had run foxhound in England and wanted to do same in western
Canada. He soon got rid of his foxhounds after the yotes keep
tearing them up. He then proceed to develope a pack of hounds
that were primarily greyhounds with a little bit of this and that but they could all run like greyhounds but he still keep
one dog in his pack that he refered to as his "killer" dog,this dog was not as fast as the others but when he got there mr. yote was history right now. The other dogs were basicly catch and hold
dogs and did not generally do any killing.But boy were they fast
give a yote a few hundred yard lead in a half mile and they never made the woods.If they made the woods they had better than
50/50 chance of getting away . One day he seen a yote in the field and turned two dogs loose over the hill they went. He darn near lost them as there was a pack of nine(9) yotes that really tore those two hounds up, from then on he always turned
the whole pack of 11 or 12 loose anytime he ran yotes. As someone
has said coyotes are smart and they mean business just remember
they are little wolves with the same killer instinct.
Cheers NC
Posted by: VernAK

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/28/07 06:20 PM

Bearstalker,
Your parents akita can indeed handle a coyote as they have a formidable jaw structure....A vet friend does not trust them and respects their power.....I only wish my immigrant neighbors would feed theirs and keep them home as local trappers and varmint hunters have had to do away with several....we have lost moose calves in the area to these akitas....

I have seen coyotes hunted in prairie state with greyhounds and 2-3 hounds can raise heck with a coyote.....
Posted by: DesertSandman

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 02/28/07 06:24 PM

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
Posted by: PPosey

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 03/07/07 05:32 AM

And yotes are full of fight, I usta have a male plott that would and did take on all comers, hard headed was he,,,,any dog that was in his area was nailed,,three or four of them and there was a real brawl....more than one large yote though and he would have been in trouble.
Posted by: akitalover

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 03/19/10 08:40 AM

I have two Akitas a 125 pound male and a 95 pound female. They are both excellent hunters and very fit. They will bring back coyotes from time to time. The only time I have witnessed them in a fight with coyotes is when my wife and I were walking them and a pack of six coyotes rushed us from the brush. The male killed one immediately by grabbing it by the head and shaking it to break its neck. (This is how they kill most of the animals they hunt.) The female then rolled one and ripped its throat out. By that point I had fired a shot into the air and the other four took off. The dogs gave chase and came back with one about 10 minutes later. Keep in mind that coyotes only weigh in around 30 pounds so in a one on one situation they would be serously disadvantaged if caught by a large aggressive dog.
Posted by: mjbgalt

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 03/21/10 07:06 PM

sorta depends. there are yotes and then there are YOTES. we got 'em around here that weigh 45 pounds or more. 4 of those would be a tough fight for ANY dogs.
Posted by: hitandmiss

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 03/23/10 05:11 AM

Have a friend in Fence Lake NM who had the largest dog I have ever seen, a Ridgeback it was. I saw that dog on several occasions kill yotes. All of the encounters, but one, were singles, the double just took it a wee bit longer.

If the yote was out in the open it was toast, however if the terrain was brushy the yote would always escape. That big dog just could not turn and dart around like a scared yote could.

That dog was not a very friendly thing to anyone but the man it trusted.
Posted by: jagdgewehr

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 03/23/10 06:25 AM

Yeah, Rhodesian Ridgeback, bred to hunt lions and other critters. They should make short work of any coyote.
Posted by: jagdgewehr

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 03/23/10 07:26 AM

If you're gonna pit one dog against any other canid the dog with the most fight is the American Pit Bull Terrier. This is exactly what he's been bred for decades to do, ie. fight and win. If you're looking for a dog to hunt AND kill coyotes the Fila Brasileiro and Dogo Argentino are both used in South America to hunt "boars" and big cats (puma and jaguar). The Anatolian Shepherd is used in Turkey to protect sheep from wolves. He may be a candidate. My uncle runs quite a few sheep and he has settled on a pair of Great Pyrenees. This has eliminated his coyote problems, which is something previous breeds had been unable to do. On our farm, we had a large (like 120 lb) Bloodhound cross male that was hell on coyotes. He really liked to go after them. But any dog is gonna get torn up some if he finds himself in a scrap with several coyotes. I'm sure this post will piss someone off but I'm an experienced and knowledgeable dog owner.
Posted by: MOGC

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 03/23/10 07:32 AM

Originally Posted By: akitalover
I...


You guys realize this thread was over three years old before akitalover resurrected it?
Posted by: jagdgewehr

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 03/23/10 08:12 AM

nope, didn't notice. whoops.
Posted by: atkinsonhunting

Re: Dog vs Coyote ? - 03/23/10 11:31 AM

Coyotes at the ranch would bait my dogs away from the house and then the pack would jump on them and whip them up good...Either dog could kill a coyote one on one every time.

My worst problem was Javalinas, my dogs hated them and those pigs would rip them up good, those dogs never seem to learn. I just kept sewing them up. One morning Charcol had his chest ripped open and I could see his heart beating and his lungs..took him to town got him sewed up and 3 days later he and Smokey were at it again...both were also immune to rattle snake bites..both had been bitten nemourous times until finally they just puffed up a bit and were good to go in two or three days without medication. Hated snakes too..killed them all the time.

If you get a dog or horse rattle snake bit stick a rubber tube up there nostrils, mostly they suffacate from rattle snake bites because the nostrils swell shut...